When the true downfall of Pakistan began

[Sayfullah]

The downfall of Pakistan began when it kept British laws and acted like a continuation of British Raj with the same British slave families ruling us and the same British army structure being kept. That and because Pakistan chose secularism and abandoned Islam, which is was created for. Pakistan was created to be an Islamic country but it chose secularism instead and only keeping the name Islamic.

 

[TheSolution]

The downfall of Pakistan began when it kept British laws and acted like a continuation of British Raj with the same British slave families ruling us and the same British army structure being kept. That and because Pakistan chose secularism and abandoned Islam, which is was created for. Pakistan was created to be an Islamic country but it chose secularism instead and only keeping the name Islamic.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the British inspired army structure, if it works well then it works well. We should take inspiration of institution structures that work well for other countries but obviously apply changes to fit our context.

But the laws and slave families are certainly an issue.

 

[Sayfullah]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the a British inspired army structure, if it works well then it works well.

But the laws and slave families are certainly an issue.

During British occupation time, local soldiers were given special privileges and made above the local population so they remain loyal to British army. They were taught arrogance and taught their above “bloody civilians”. They were given all the perks and privileges they needed at the cost of “bloody civilians” so they remain loyal to British. They had the mentality of slavery to British instilled in them. That had it instilled in them that they’re worth more than “bloody civilians” and that serving in the army itself was a privilege.
The British Indian Army structure was focused on ensuring the soldiers don’t rebel and stay loyal to British. So they achieved this by letting soldiers live in a bubble where they act like kings. It put arrogance in soldiers to keep them loyal.

 

[nahtanbob]

Democracy is overrated.

Democracy is not the solution, it never has been.

China is thriving under CCP.

For every China there is a North Korea

 

[Mirzali Khan]

What do you propose it is?

There's a group of issues and the political system, government policy, and socioculture is part of it.

I don't see self-correction as something impossible as you would imply.

A country’s diversity ends up being a burden when it’s not under a unified message. It’s not like Pakistan has the tools for everyone to be on the same page. We are a overwhelmingly Muslim country.

But certain forces that have emphasized the Muslim homeland thing have completely failed to notice and sense how stuff such as language and ethnicity plays a big role especially when the original message of Pakistan was federalism.

Jinnah’s speech trying to advise people to leave provincialism leaves out the fact that without a strong and capable governance provincialism on ethnic lines will naturally happen.

In addition, when certain groups end up feeling slighted or not represented or not heard then we end up with groups that try to maximally deestablize and halt all progress in order to get their message across. BLA, TTP, and PPP all come into mind and play along with this.

The final thing is that Pakistan has been cursed with a boomer generation that is bent on ruling with unfettered capabilities leading to an economic crisis within months of Imran Khan’s removal. Add this in with a history of a country that hasn’t really fought for or won anything and you end up getting 220 million people being held hostage by a few babbus.

 

[Menace2Society]

How can you call Pakistan Taliban as Afghan? Their leaders are all Pakistanis, they live and fight in Pakistan.

Baitullah Mehsud - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Born c. 1970 Bannu District, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan Died 5 August 2009 (aged about 39) South Waziristan, Khyber Paktunkhwa, Pakistan

Hakimullah Mehsud - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Born Jamshed Mehsud c. 1978-1981 Kotkai region, South Waziristan, Pakistan Died 1 November 2013 Dande Darpa Khel, North Waziristan, Pakistan

Fazlullah (militant leader) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Born Fazal Hayat 1974 Swat District, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan Died 14 June 2018 (aged 43–44) Marawara District, Kunar Province, Afghanistan

Noor Wali Mehsud - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Born June 26, 1978 (age 44) Tiarza Subdivision, South Waziristan, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan

I am born in England but that doesn't make me English.

 

[TheSolution]

During British occupation time, local soldiers were given special privileges and made above the local population so they remain loyal to British army. They were taught arrogance and taught their above “bloody civilians”. They were given all the perks and privileges they needed at the cost of “bloody civilians” so they remain loyal to British. They had the mentality of slavery to British instilled in them. That had it instilled in them that they’re worth more than “bloody civilians” and that serving in the army itself was a privilege.
The British Indian Army structure was focused on ensuring the soldiers don’t rebel and stay loyal to British. So they achieved this by letting soldiers live in a bubble where they act like kings. It put arrogance in soldiers to keep them loyal.

Tbh I was referring more about the hierarchical structure and positions within the army itself.

But yes, the "bloody civillian" mentality is toxic. It's not just present in the army but in any government related area, it's a common attitude by certain Pakistanis all around. They always look for reasons to prove their superiority over other Pakistanis, and unironically this mindset is rooted in an inferiority complex.

 

[FuturePAF]

Privatisation makes sense especially for a corrupt society like Pakistan.

People only truly put their 100% into something they directly benefit off. (In this example owning the company) This forces them to implement meritocratic practises if they want their company to not only survive but also thrive in a competitive environment.

It also forces productivity in the workers to meet standards and requirements.

Pakistanis are a race that require the stick to work at full efficiency, government controlled institutions with tax money are not suitable. Only private sector which forces people to meet standards and do their job works.

Too much nationalisation in Pakistan will lead to inefficiency and productivity due to the socioculture of its people. Maybe after some decades/generations of this system people will begin to value meritocracy, and stand against nepotism and corruption as a society.

Government should really only control things related to security and public education. In reality all it really needs to is regulate the market and apply certain measures.

Like schools must do X, healthcare must follow X.

@FuturePAF

Private companies will put a fixed minimum profit margin on things regardless of their input. Therefore there are something’s they should own and operate but other things they should not.

An example is the railroads. If it’s all private they could charge what ever they want. If they work with a motorway owner they could like fix a high price. So there are things that shouldn’t be privatized, but operating on public infrastructure or in institutions should be allowed by private companies to allow for competition.

Secondly, we don’t want to limit access to vital services like electricity for the poorest citizens. Therefore prices should go up progressively with use. First x units for a set price (probably at cost), then above that for x units for (cost plus 20% profit), then above it for x units for (cost plus 40% profit) and so on.

We need a way for investor to earn a profit that is not fixed but proportional to the use in the country. Then we need the government to make the circumstances such that the economy is growing such that this will be an incentive enough to attract investors.

 

[epebble]

I am born in England but that doesn't make me English.

Then what does that make you? How does that make you anything else? Even if your parents were immigrants, you still need a visa to go to their old country and that country will ask you to go home when the visa ends.

 

[Goritoes]

If the chairman was alive, he would be called Muhajir and asked to go back to India, Pakistani's minus those Urdu speaking are nothing but barbarians and uncivilized Animals, Only few people among them are decent enough who left their marks but unfortunately the majority are lost cause. If Jinnah realized that he would never follow the dream of Pakistan, we can bring Pakistan back to right path but we need to put every ethnicity to re-educational camps, whole families must be put there and their kids to be taught, people must be forced to drop their cultural affiliations or put behind bars until they do.

Corruption and living like animals has become part of our national identity, in 21st century we are lynching people, more than 70% of Pakistanis live like cavemen not because they can't but because they chose to, you don't need to be rich or educated or have job to live like a normal human, but its a vicious cycle which will keep going on, unfortunately Pakistan is made up of ethnic groups who are not qualified to live in modern civilized societies.

Everything Pakistani's touch turns to ruin, you can put Pakistani's in-charge of successful nations and within couple of years we will bankrupt those nations and turn them into pile of trash, that how much effective our people are, and the reason I say there is no HOPE for us Pakistani's is because we don't even acknowledge the problem which are rooted deep within the people psyche/Culture/Life style and now DNA.

 

[M. Sarmad]

... Pakistani's minus those Urdu speaking are nothing but barbarians and uncivilized Animals,

Get well soon, bro

 

[TheSolution]

If the chairman was alive, he would be called Muhajir and asked to go back to India, Pakistani's minus those Urdu speaking are nothing but barbarians and uncivilized Animals, Only few people among them are decent enough who left their marks but unfortunately the majority are lost cause. If Jinnah realized that he would never follow the dream of Pakistan, we can bring Pakistan back to right path but we need to put every ethnicity to re-educational camps, whole families must be put there and their kids to be taught, people must be forced to drop their cultural affiliations or put behind bars until they do.

Corruption and living like animals has become part of our national identity, in 21st century we are lynching people, more than 70% of Pakistanis live like cavemen not because they can't but because they chose to, you don't need to be rich or educated or have job to live like a normal human, but its a vicious cycle which will keep going on, unfortunately Pakistan is made up of ethnic groups who are not qualified to live in modern civilized societies.

Everything Pakistani's touch turns to ruin, you can put Pakistani's in-charge of successful nations and within couple of years we will bankrupt those nations and turn them into pile of trash, that how much effective our people are, and the reason I say there is no HOPE for us Pakistani's is because we don't even acknowledge the problem which are rooted deep within the people psyche/Culture/Life style and now DNA.

I mean it's unfeasible to put the entire country into re-educational camps, best bet is to have a class integrated into the national cirriculum which teaches people such things.

At the very least we should be doing right now is forming a proper and competent national government as well as aiming to revitalise and fix our national institutions, implement nation-wide reforms especially economic reforms.

Then slowly we can begin to address sociocultural issues.

Get well soon, bro

He is right to a degree, I don't want to be banned but certain groups are incredibly barbaric and simply incompatible with the lifestyle attributed to modern day nation-states or organised societies.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Nonsense.
Firstly, Bhutto had the mandate for his 'socialism' via the 1971 elections. That was the zeitgeist of the 1960s, right or wrong. Also, it is an urban myth that his socialism 'destroyed' Pakistan...

Exactly .. Nationalization was a promise made by PPP in their Election Manifesto. People voted for them.. Bhutto only fulfilled his promise (partially though) and peoples' will

 

[Goritoes]

Get well soon, bro

Take a journey to Interior Sindh, South Punjab, Balochistan and KPK, trust me you will be telling those people " Get well soon " more LOL

certain groups are incredibly barbaric and simply incompatible with the lifestyle attributed to modern day nation-states or organised societies.

Evolution of societies are observable throughout the world, and if you look Pakistan our people took the Evolution backward, I don't have to go into nit pick examples but just one that will prove my point to be right, FATA before Army operation was called illaqa-e-Gair, where every criminal, Daku , Rapists, Terrorists and anyone who wants to avoid law and accountability goes there, and to this day that area hasn't changed a bit. One might argue that it wasn't the people but the Area itself, because finding a man in FATA is finding a needle in hay stag, but when the Pushtoon move to Karachi and start settling in certain areas, they turn those areas into those mini FATA, certain Areas of Karachi become havens for Criminals/Rapists/Terrorists/ or anyone who wants to avoid law and accountability, so this shows that its not the Area/Province/Terrain but the people who are messed up.

 

[PakFactor]

@Areesh @PakFactor @Meengla @Goenitz @Goritoes @Signalian @PanzerKiel @villageidiot @Mirzali Khan @_NOBODY_ @Erieye @Sayfullah @Olympus81 @N.Siddiqui @Maula Jatt @Muhammad Saftain Anjum @Dalit @Ali_Baba @ziaulislam @FuturePAF

Bhutto was the down fall of Pakistan; but he didn't go away without inflicting a headshot on Pakistan. His policies and the filth he injected into politics continue to haunt Pakistan.