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When a single strike reduced IAF by 30%

Too much of hypocrisy and twisted history.... Remember the Lahore was saved by so called non martial 2nd grade Pakistanis (Bangalis).

In early August 1965, Pakistan launched a clandestine operation, code named “Operation Gibraltar”. The aim was to infiltrate inside Indian held Kashmir and to demolish bridges, cutoff supply lines, etc to create panic among the populace. They also set up a radio station, called “Sada-e-Kashmir”, purported to be the voice of the Mujahedin fighting for Kashmir's liberation. The assumption was that the radio broadcast, along with the guerilla activities, will trigger a general uprising among the Kashmiris. None of that happened. In fact, many of these infiltrators were arrested, killed in encounters and often were handed over to the authority by the locals. By the end of August, Operation Gibraltar petered out; remnants of the so-called Mujahedin tracked back to Pakistan.

On 1 September 1965, regular Pakistani troops crossed the cease fire line (CFL) and moved towards Jammu. The forces made quick advance and in the next couple of days threatened to cut Jammu-Srinagar road. The Indian PM gave a warning on 2 September that unless Pakistan withdrew its forces across the CFL, India would respond “at a time and place of its own choosing”. The Indian response came on 5-6 Sept night when it launched attacks across Sialkot and Lahore. The Indian response was full one month after the Pakistani incursion. The Indian forces, besides threatening two key cities, poised to cut the vital Grand Trunk (GT) road. At this time, the 1st Battalion of the EBR was deployed in the defence of Lahore along the Bambawali- Ravi-Bedian canal, commonly known as BRB canal. They held their ground despite repeated Indian attacks. At the end of the war, this regiment had the honour of being awarded the highest number of gallantry awards among all the regiments of Pakistan Army.

By the second week into the war, Pakistani forces were running out of ammunition and spares. US had imposed on both the warring sides an arms embargo which hurt Pakistan badly because almost all her weapons were of US origin. Pakistan had no option but to accept a UN resolution for a ceasefire to take effect from 22 September 1965. An initiative by the Soviet Premier Alexei Kosygin, resulted in a peace deal, known as “The Tashkent Declaration”, signed by the warring parties on 4 January 1966 in Tashkent. The declaration was hailed as a new beginning of peace. It stated that both countries will pull back their forces to pre-war positions, will restore economic and diplomatic ties and will initiate orderly exchange of prisoners. The treaty was viewed by many Pakistanis as a diplomatic defeat for President Ayub. Ayub never recovered from the fall of his stature after Tashkent and was ousted four years later in the face of popular uprising.

This was a war that had no clear victor or vanquished. The aim of the Pakistani high command was to seize a portion of Kashmir to force India to the negotiating table; on the other hand, India's aim was to stop any Pakistani incursion and not to allow external interference in the Kashmir issue. In the end, India largely achieved her aim and objectives, while Pakistan was in disarray. The facade of democracy that President Ayub created was shattered because what to speak of the ordinary people, even the Parliament or the Cabinet was not consulted when the vital decision to send infiltrators into Kashmir was taken.

On the economic front, Pakistan suffered badly due to war. The 3rd Five Year Plan (1965-70) was virtually in tatters. 6% GDP growth rate of early 1960s almost stalled by the end of the decade. East Pakistan was cut-off from its western wing during the War. A deep sense of separatism and alienation grew in East Pakistan as an aftermath. The war raised the issue of the defence of East Pakistan. With only one infantry division, a squadron of fighters and no naval assets, except for a few patrol crafts, East Pakistan was virtually defenseless. In June 1966, the Awami League in its 6-Point Programme demanded greater defence investment in East Pakistan which soon became a rallying point for the Bengalis. Among the demands were shifting of the NHQ to Chittagong, establishment of an ordnance factory and raising of a paramilitary force to augment the defense of the eastern wing. The Bengali soldiers, sailors and airmen proved that as professional military men they are second to none. We honour those valiant sons of the soil who gave their best in the field of battle in September 1965 to keep up the honour and dignity of the Bengali nation. Many veterans of 65-War displayed the same valour in the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971.
 
Pakistan sends in terrorists and paratroopers into Kashmir to capture it. Starts 1965 war.

Due to local tip off, India finds out and takes care of the that. Pakistan launches a legit massive assault on Kashmir starting a full scale war.

India sends a counter assault to relieve pressure on Kashmir. Pakistan falls back from Kashmir all together and defends Punjab's capital.

Pakistan didnt get Kashmir, but defends Punjab, somehow Pakistan "won" this war.:smart:


On the other hand, Pakistan sends air raids to relieve pressure on East Pakistan starting full scale war. (1971)

But India completes the objective of liberating East Pakistan.

If 65 never happened, E. Pakistan might still be E. Pakistan.
What nonsense. How dare you bring in facts and truth into a discussion about wars between India and Pakistan
 
Mathematics may not be a good skill for you so highly advisable for you to stick to your renowned sanitation threads.

"The PAF lost some 25 aircraft (11 in air combat), while the Indians lost 60 (25 in air combat). This was an impressive result, but it was simply not good enough. Pakistan ended the war having depleted 17 percent of its front line strength, while India's losses amounted to less than 10 percent. Moreover, the loss rate had begun to even out, and it has been estimated that another three week's fighting would have seen the Pakistani losses rising to 33 percent and India's losses totalling 15 percent. Air superiority was not achieved, and were unable to prevent IAF fighter bombers and reconnaissance Canberras from flying daylight missions over Pakistan. Thus 1965 was a stalemate in terms of the air war with neither side able to achieve complete air superiority



According to the Library of Congress Country Studies conducted by the Federal Research Division of the United States
The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy—on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.

Copy Paste from wikipedia. Grow up man.


  • TIME magazine reported that India held 690 mi2 of Pakistan territory while Pakistan held 250 mi2 of Indian territory in Kashmir and Rajasthan. Additionally, Pakistan had lost almost half its armour temporarily. The article further elaborates,
Severely mauled by the larger Indian armed forces, Pakistan could continue the fight only by teaming up with Red China and turning its back on the U.N.

"A region in turmoil: South Asian conflicts since 1947" by Robert Johnson mentions
India's strategic aims were modest – it aimed to deny Pakistani Army victory, although it ended up in possession of 720 square miles (1,900 km2) of Pakistani territory for the loss of just 220 square miles (570 km2) of its own. ;)


@Windjammer BTW attacking a weakened India from Indo-China war defeat does indeed say explain a lot about pakistani psyche
 
Mathematics may not be a good skill for you so highly advisable for you to stick to your renowned sanitation threads.
Why would you need any one else when you have your own Jairam Ramesh to shower you with all the compliments.
"The PAF lost some 25 aircraft (11 in air combat), while the Indians lost 60 (25 in air combat). This was an impressive result, but it was simply not good enough. Pakistan ended the war having depleted 17 percent of its front line strength, while India's losses amounted to less than 10 percent. Moreover, the loss rate had begun to even out, and it has been estimated that another three week's fighting would have seen the Pakistani losses rising to 33 percent and India's losses totalling 15 percent. Air superiority was not achieved, and were unable to prevent IAF fighter bombers and reconnaissance Canberras from flying daylight missions over Pakistan. Thus 1965 was a stalemate in terms of the air war with neither side able to achieve complete air superiority
Looking at the figures quoted by you, Justice Katju does come to mind, as elsewhere the total losses suffered by the IAF is quoted by the Indian sources as 75 aircraft (see table below)...which it'self is highly debatable, for the Indian authorities themselves admit to losing at least 12 Canberras on the ground following the famous Tailchoppers strike on IAF base Kalaikunda.....the table ostensibly shows as only four such aircraft lost on ground throughout the war.......so i suggest, you rather than being frivolous, get your figures right first.


Indian Air Force Losses - 1965 War

The Indian Air Force never released an official list of casualities The tables here is a result of painstaking research and has been compiled after referring to various sources including retired officers and unclassified documents . Though the figures for Air to Air combat and AA Losses were accurate, we missed out the figures for Operational Accidents and those destroyed on ground. The revelations of the Official Indian History of the 1965 War has set right these anamolies.

Aircraft.................Air Action...........Opl Accidents......... Lost on Ground............ Aircraft
Vampires.................4....................................-........................................6...................................10
Mystere....................6...................................3(1)....................................9...................................18
Hunters...................10..................................4(1)....................................3...................................17
Gnats........................2..................................3(1)....................................2....................................7
Canberra..................1....................................1.......................................4....................................6
MiG-21.....................................................................................................3....................................3
Packet--...................................................................................................3....................................3
Dakota--...................................................................................................5....................................5
Auster......................1(1)...............................1...............................................................................2
Sea Hawk.....................................................1................................................................................1
Dakota--...................................................................................................1.....................................1
Caribou--..................................................................................................1.....................................1
Beechcraft......................1...............................................................................................................1
TOTAL..........................25........................13...........................................37.................................75


@Windjammer BTW attacking a weakened India from Indo-China war defeat does indeed say explain a lot about pakistani psyche
@ sandy_3126....It's ironic, how the Indians keep repeating, this or that could have happened had war continued, i guess had Japan not attacked Pearl Harbour, it wouldn't have dragged US into the war, there wouldn't be a Hiroshima or Nagasaki or Indira Gandhi may still be alive if she hadn't ordered operation blue star..... and talking about the mindset, one wonders who portrayed their bankrupt mentality to take advantage of internal turmoil in earst while East Pakistan.
 
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The Americans had armed Pakistan with F-104s, F-86 Sabres, B-57 bombers and advanced air defence radars still we fought them. :D :D

and what were indians flying? carpets? :what:

For every one you post, I can post 10, including classified documents from US Congress which have excerpts of Pakistani military leaders begging for a ceasefire or risk losing Lahore. Its been done before on this forum, so I dont want to get involved in this childish game again.

there was no risk of losing Lahore

the indians tried and failed miserably - stopped dead in their tracks @ Chawinda -- trying to capture Sialkot along the way and cut off our supply lines (which they also failed miserably)
 
If war happens today with pakistan,,it would be massacre of paf..........the times have simply changed.
So point living in the past really.

Indian navy alone can fend off the paf today,,,and the gap is gonna widen in the next 10 years with rafale and pakfa so i appeal to pakistani posters to please stop the chest thumping on something that happened 50 years back.
 
If war happens today with pakistan,,it would be massacre of paf..........the times have simply changed.
So point living in the past really.

Indian navy alone can fend off the paf today,,,and the gap is gonna widen in the next 10 years with rafale and pakfa so i appeal to pakistani posters to please stop the chest thumping on something that happened 50 years back.
Yes times have indeed changed.....no more firewood for the Indians Chitas......there wouldn't be anything left to burn.
 
:lol: won the war? You mean the war that Pakistan launched to capture Kashmir and declared itself as victorious by successfully defending lahore ?
Indians who were invited by their General for a victory toast in Lahore Gymkhana, ended up requesting for a bottle of whiskey as an SOS. :laugh:
 
Indians who were invited by their General for a victory toast in Lahore Gymkhana, ended up requesting for a bottle of whiskey as an SOS. :laugh:
Well, Karan wont reply since he is in transit to USA, so let me try and answer. So help me understand this..

  • Pakistan attacks India because it wants to capture Kashmir, but doesnt have the guts to do that openly so sends 25000 of its troops in civilian grabs across the LOC to "liberate Kashmiris"
  • The same Kashmiris, still with a memory of Pakistani tribals' loot and rape in the kashmir valley from 1947, saw them and alerted the Indian Army
  • India gave multiple warnings to Pakistan to withdraw its attack on Kashmir but Pakistan decided to capture Kashmir once and for all since Indian defensive preps were weak in J&K in line with the UN resolutions.
  • India opened other fronts to relieve pressure from Kashmir sector. Additional fronts included Punjab (Lahore)
  • Strategy worked and Pakistan diverted energies from Kashmir to Lahore and Sialkot sector and stopped INdian advance a few miles from Lahore
  • Kashmir offensive by Pakistan failed.
  • At the time of ceasefire, India had lost 540 Sq Km of territory in Rann of Kutch sector and Pakistn had lost 1840 sq km of territory in Kashmir, Lahore and Sialkot sector. This was exchanged back in the cease fire agreement
  • And Pakistan won the war because India could not capture Lahore and could not drink whiskey in Lahore Gymkhana club
Is that an accurate summation of your understanding of this war
 
Not valiantly but foolishly. Pak didn't succeed in any of its objectives. It was a coward attack by Pak without declaring the war formally and it was the failure of intelligence from Indian side also, but still I'm glade that India managed to cut the aggressor's nose with the blunt knife.


Cut the aggressor's nose? What cheap weed are you smoking? In all the wars, people on BOTH sides lost their lives. It was never a one sided affair, as Trolls like you think it to be because your shyt textbooks and media told you so.
 
If war happens today with pakistan,,it would be massacre of paf..........the times have simply changed.
So point living in the past really.

Indian navy alone can fend off the paf today,,,and the gap is gonna widen in the next 10 years with rafale and pakfa so i appeal to pakistani posters to please stop the chest thumping on something that happened 50 years back.

as a defending force, Pak can handle your iaf satisfactorily

youre right realities have changed
 
as a defending force, Pak can handle your iaf satisfactorily

youre right realities have changed

I was not laughing at paf..............as i know for a fact we will never go for a war now.
Just stating the fact.

Same wrt india vs china.................we will loose badly but point is we are seperated by himalayas so chinese cannot press us properly,,,in plains we have no chance
 

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