What's gone wrong with Democracy? Good Governance can be the solution

[vi-va]

What's gone wrong with democracy said the un-democratic.

So you are the judge for democracy? You can judge who is, and who isn't?

China is democracy, you can laugh as hard you can. But it depends on what standard and value you respect. Democracy by mass vote is the worst and low level of democracy. Real democracy is the government policy making involves the people, every single project and law making process take care their people's interest and allow professionals and mass to participate.

US mass can have vote, but their law making are hugely influenced by rich and big cop. That's why US is not democracy, it's Plutocracy or Kleptocracy, or even dictatorship. Do US majority mass want wars oversees? No. But Pentagon keep doing it regardless.

 

[striver44]

So you are the judge for democracy? You can judge who is, and who isn't?

No, why should I? The chinese mainlander will speak at my behalf. Sooner or later.

 

[Rusty]

So what? You lack several dollars for VPN? Or you lack the skill to work around firewall for free? There are many way to work around the firewall, just take 30 minutes or so.

Why you install screen on the window? To stop flies and mosquito. Firewall is just screen, only block those toxic western propaganda for illiterate citizens. Why you ban Por*nhub? Same thing.

There are 130 millions Chinese tourist go abroad every single year, they witness western society, very disappointed, and 99.999% of them come back home. Which means most of them prefer China.

There are more Chinese who can speak/read/write English than US population. We Chinese knew western more than you think.

A person born in jail will never understand what the "big deal" is about having freedom.

You won't understand since you HAVE to use a VPN.
It's like living in a poor village, you get used to the misquotes and you think "this is no big deal."

And if those Chinese people are so patriotic then why are they moving and sending billions of dollars in the west?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/wester...-chinese-home-buying-nothing-works-1528294587

The best thing about facts is that they cut through propaganda really easily.

 

[OIO]

Democracy is the worst form of government, but at least you won't have to use a VPN to post your own propaganda

Democracy country also need a great firewall to stay safe. Actually every country need great firewall and own internet industry.

 

[PakAlp]

In Islam the first Khaleef was elected when all Muslims were asked to vote. The majority voted for Hazrat Abu Bakr Sadeeq RaziAllahAnhu. The 2nd Khaleef was same and 3rd but the 4th Khaleef was chosen by the MajlisShura without any votes.

So we have 2 types of different systems.
Can anyone explain or share details on how the Islamic system would be set up. It seems very similar to the parliamentary system and presidential system but not sure how it is setup overall.

Democracy has many problems, if the nation is a educated nation then they are educated enough to select good leaders and make good foreign and domestic policies. If the nation is uneducated then the rich exploit the poor. It is very difficult to bring reforms and changes because people who dont care about the nation get selected.

I think these uneducated countries need to make a panel of professional patriotic people to run the main affairs of the country, like domestic policies foreign policie, health policy etc. Then have the parliament underneath it to work for it etc.

 

[vi-va]

In Islam the first Khaleef was elected when all Muslims were asked to vote. The majority voted for Hazrat Abu Bakr Sadeeq RaziAllahAnhu. The 2nd Khaleef was same and 3rd but the 4th Khaleef was chosen by the MajlisShura without any votes.

So we have 2 types of different systems.
Can anyone explain or share details on how the Islamic system would be set up. It seems very similar to the parliamentary system and presidential system but not sure how it is setup overall.

Democracy has many problems, if the nation is a educated nation then they are educated enough to select good leaders and make good foreign and domestic policies. If the nation is uneducated then the rich exploit the poor. It is very difficult to bring reforms and changes because people who dont care about the nation get selected.

I think these uneducated countries need to make a panel of professional patriotic people to run the main affairs of the country, like domestic policies foreign policie, health policy etc. Then have the parliament underneath it to work for it etc.

Both British and Americans are educated, comparing with most of the developing countries.
Now British got Brexit, Americans got Trump.
Education is not the cure.

 

[jamahir]

US mass can have vote, but their law making are hugely influenced by rich and big cop. That's why US is not democracy, it's Plutocracy or Kleptocracy, or even dictatorship. Do US majority mass want wars oversees? No. But Pentagon keep doing it regardless.

Good point.

 

[Nan Yang]

are you still riding horses in streams?



To you.
I don't want to live in a disposition hell hole where I have to use a VPN.


If was a reference to Winston Churchill.

It's not surprising you don't know that famous quote, since you are not allowed to learn it.
only patriotic education for you.

Winston Churchill obviously didn't have vision.

 

[Indos]

In Islam the first Khaleef was elected when all Muslims were asked to vote. The majority voted for Hazrat Abu Bakr Sadeeq RaziAllahAnhu. The 2nd Khaleef was same and 3rd but the 4th Khaleef was chosen by the MajlisShura without any votes.

So we have 2 types of different systems.
Can anyone explain or share details on how the Islamic system would be set up. It seems very similar to the parliamentary system and presidential system but not sure how it is setup overall.

Democracy has many problems, if the nation is a educated nation then they are educated enough to select good leaders and make good foreign and domestic policies. If the nation is uneducated then the rich exploit the poor. It is very difficult to bring reforms and changes because people who dont care about the nation get selected.

I think these uneducated countries need to make a panel of professional patriotic people to run the main affairs of the country, like domestic policies foreign policie, health policy etc. Then have the parliament underneath it to work for it etc.

Nope. Democracy benefits to the poor more on the rich. It is why I see through Indonesia democracy, many pro labor law created during our democracy period that can hurt businessmen and entrepreneurship. Huge village development fund, relatively free health care (very cheap monthly fee), and the latest program is unemployment benefit.

Our Anti Corruption also rely on democracy since many of our elite dont like it but they have failed to scarp the body due to people and press opposition. Thanks to democracy for that.

Something that become the deficiency of democracy is that it tends to produce populist program to win election. The good thing about it is that as individual we feel quite powerful and our leader cannot act despotic on us. Democracy will also avoid war between factions in the country and give relatively safe and calm leadership succession.

Yes, democracy can only be applied in an educated and well informed citizen with good press quality. It is some how IMO is the final stage of human social system. It is why dictatorship still get support in Indonesia in early period of our history while in other period where the education has been widespread we feel unsatisfied with the system and demand changes that lead to political reformation in Indonesia.

Islam is flexible in their political system but the ideal system political system in Islam is more close to democracy (Khalifah) than authoritarian (kingdom, dictator, etc). Khalifah in Islamic term IMO is some one being elected as political leader.

And you can see now Muslim nations has once again adopted Khalifah system (democracy). In democratic system, Islam has proven to be well protected. For instant, in the past Indonesia, female civil servant, female soldiers and police cannot wear hijab and now under democracy it has been allowed.

This hadith also show democracy element where prophet said the leadership of a society depend on people living in that society. Some say the hadith is weak, regardless of that it should still be considered.

Prophet Muhammad said "as you are, rulers will be appointed over you"

 

[jamahir]

Technically, the only true democracy is Direct Democracy which consists of people making their opinions heard at neighborhood-level and these opinions going up to national-level. But it is possible that the citizens are not enlightened enough to make correct opinions and therefore a nation has to adopt socialism so that enlightenment spreads among the citizens.

I will ask readers to look at this theory of one such Direct Democracy system.

@viva_zhao @Indos @Naofumi

And please look at my signature too.

 

[Naofumi]

Technically, the only true democracy is Direct Democracy which consists of people making their opinions heard at neighborhood-level and these opinions going up to national-level.

Gram Panchayat?

And please look at my signature too.

Cool post-apocalyptic scenario.

 

[jamahir]

Gram Panchayat?

Three things :

1. Often the Sarpanch ( the head of the Gram Panchayat or Village Committee ) is not an enlightened person. This happened recently in Indian Punjab where a village's woman sarpanch colluded with some evil villagers to economically boycott some Gujjar Muslim milk sellers using the excuse of Corona.

2. The opinions and ideas ( if any ) emanating at the level of Gram Panchayat are limited to the village and at most the District. Anything beyond requires the intermediation of political parties which render the system to become a Representative Democracy system and therefore not truly democracy.

3. The Gram Panchayat and its higher levels plus those at the state level and center level make the entire thing to be too complicated.

Cool post-apocalyptic scenario.

Or something that the UNO should aim for.

 

[vi-va]

One man one vote is kind of like a religion. Those who defend it will defend it regardless what happened.

I hope one day India can demonstrate what a good political system is, and how it works.
I hope one day Indonesia can demonstrate what a good political system is, and how it works.

If those 2 countries with large population can make it work under different culture and religion, then it's good.

 

[Naofumi]

One man one vote is kind of like a religion. Those who defend it will defend it regardless what happened.

I hope one day India can demonstrate what a good political system is, and how it works.
I hope one day Indonesia can demonstrate what a good political system is, and how it works.

If those 2 countries with large population can make it work under different culture and religion, then it's good.

From what I think, China too will become democratic one day, this path is an alternative and faster way to reach that. Or the current system is believed to be eternal?

 

[vi-va]

From what I think, China too will become democratic one day, this path is an alternative and faster way to reach that. Or the current system is believed to be eternal?

Chinese want democracy since 200 BC, the traditional Confucius value. We Chinese want modern democracy since 1911 revolution.

The problem is, we don't recognize western one as democracy in the first place, especially US so called democracy.

We Chinese has our China dream, that every citizens can be prospers, can make our government accountable. We want justice, good governance, that's can NOT be achieved by western political system, nor their value system.