Whats behind Hezbullah's success ?

[AmirPatriot]

You just instantly say that Iraq didn't buy anything with its money?

Thats right, they didn't. They got around $72 billion worth of aid from various sources.

What support did Israel have before 73?

I already showed you.

Those ATGMs can fly over your president and fire a LAHAT up his ***.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrre...

billions of bullets,

This again? lol

"Other than"

What's your point?

This one is a copy of the Israeli Eitan, can you do something besides copy?

Bullshit. They are convergent designs. Unless you can provide any solid proof to support your accusation, I won't believe it, especially since just by looking you can see several differences in the nuances of the design.

And no, this one cant, you don't have drones with enough communications range.

Its entirely possible that Iran has gained access to a SATCOM link. If not, we are planning on sending SATCOM satellites ASAP. There's no other reason for having a bulged nose.

.Anyways even 60 year old radars can see RCS's of a square meter

So think what modern radars can do. 1 m^2 isn't exactly huge y'know.

Yes, I know, and thus you proved my point, it has nothing to do with size, its all about aerodynamics and engine efficiency.

It obviously does have something to do with size. A relatively small Hawk missile can't have the range of a 48N6E3, not without making it a prohibitively expensive weapon anyway.

Similarly, the large missiles Iran has shown are long range systems, since Iran has many smaller short/medium range missiles in its inventory.

You were only sanctioned by the West, not the east

And yes, this is why you've lost

Lost? They attacked us and tried to take our territory. They took jack shit. We won. We gave a lot of casualties, but then so did the USSR in WW2.

And this is what it really shows:

My point still stands, and I've told you before. Wikipedia is not a good source for obscure information. That "500 m CEP" figure is taken from guesses by "experts". It cannot be counted on.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Thats right, they didn't. They got around $72 billion worth of aid from various sources.

I already showed you.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrre...



This again? lol



What's your point?



Bullshit. They are convergent designs. Unless you can provide any solid proof to support your accusation, I won't believe it, especially since just by looking you can see several differences in the nuances of the design.



Its entirely possible that Iran has gained access to a SATCOM link. If not, we are planning on sending SATCOM satellites ASAP. There's no other reason for having a bulged nose.



So think what modern radars can do. 1 m^2 isn't exactly huge y'know.



It obviously does have something to do with size. A relatively small Hawk missile can't have the range of a 48N6E3, not without making it a prohibitively expensive weapon anyway.

Similarly, the large missiles Iran has shown are long range systems, since Iran has many smaller short/medium range missiles in its inventory.





Lost? They attacked us and tried to take our territory. They took jack shit. We won. We gave a lot of casualties, but then so did the USSR in WW2.



My point still stands, and I've told you before. Wikipedia is not a good source for obscure information. That "500 m CEP" figure is taken from guesses by "experts". It cannot be counted on.

1. How does it matter? they still bought it, North Korea relies on aid but they still bought weapons from the Soviet Union.
2. How is this aid? This is all what we have purchased, Israel didn't receive aid money until 1985. We have purchased all of these with our own money.
3. They can, what do you think he has his own APS?
4. Want it or not, its true.
5. You don't really have a drone with your own design, just copies basically.
6.

Quite similar don't you think? Don't deny this, its a copy. Not even a successful one
7. So this drone is useless now, yet you still claimed it can reach Israel
8. Not less than a square decimeter for sure from a really close range.
9. It has something with size, that's right, but huge doesn't mean longer range. Look at early ballistic missiles and late ones for example, or space launch rockets.
10. Russia conquered Germany in the end, you have managed to do basically nothing. and you skipped that you weren't sanctioned by the eastern countries.
11. Well I surely wont believe a guy that opens a thread in a forum.

 

[500]

Simple, because of their training and the quality of their Officer Schools. While Officers from all over the world come over to Pakistani and Indian Military Academies to study, how many Officers go to Arab Military Academies? Do they even have a Staff College? What exactly is taught there? What is the curriculum of their War Gaming Courses?

Western officers come to Pakistan and India to study? What are u taking about?

Who are the most sought after Officers in the UN? You guessed it, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Indian. Why is it that Arab Armies always approach Pakistan Army to lend its Officers for Training or Leading Missions? Why was it that a Pakistani Officer was required to beat back PLO from Jordan? NATO and American Officers have not once but on multiple occasions praised their Professionalism and Discipline. At the end of the day, Pakistani and Indian Officers rise on the basis of their merit and not loyalty. This is what distinguishes them, i can tell you Pakistani Officers would have been court martial-ed long time ago if they continued to make the same mistakes SAA is making over and over again. You're just desperately trying to clutch to your straws, because i have smacked your argument in your face.

Since when UN forces became a sign of qualiy?

You think this is not big enough, are you incredibly stupid or pretending to be one.

"The purge of the Red Army and Military Maritime Fleet removed three of five marshals (then equivalent to five-star generals), 13 of 15 army commanders (then equivalent to three- and four-star generals), eight of nine admirals (the purge fell heavily on the Navy, who were suspected of exploiting their opportunities for foreign contacts),[30] 50 of 57 army corps commanders, 154 out of 186 division commanders, 16 of 16 armycommissars, and 25 of 28 army corps commissars"

U will be surprised but education level of Soviet generals actually increased after repressions.

You are calling Tukhachevsky an idiot. Okay its confirmed, you're indeed Stupid and not pretending to be one. The man who was the architect behind 'Deep Operations Doctrine', the doctrine that sinked Nazi Germany's Blitzkrieg. I really have no words to be honest. I am just utterly shocked at your stupidity, its like calling MacArthur or Patton Idiots.

I repeat, Tukhachevsky was only successful in gassing own peasants. He was MISERABLY BEATEN by Poland. Same goes for most of Civil war red army generals.

My bad, i meant to say Operation Uranus

But Zhukov commanded failed Mars. And about Uranus, it succeed primarily because of weak unerarmed Italian and Romanian forces, who even had had not proper tanks and artillery. And even then the overall casualties of Red army were much higher in Stalingrad battle.

How far away is that hostile population from their core bases? Are they separated by thousands of miles of hostile Indian Territory? How many Pakistani Soldiers or Officers have you seen surrendering to the TTP or ISIS in FATA?

Deir ez Zor for example is totally encircled and u can only access it by air. Yet "incompetent" SAA keeps fighting thee for years.

It's quite clear English is not your First Language as you're having such a hard time comprehending it. The gist of my argument was, it was an out of the box thinking at the time which made an impact. That's it, its not some magic solution to the ATGM Problem. The proper solution would be using artillery effectively with Armored Formations.

OK I 'll made its simple: There is ZERO evidence that bikes were ever used against ATGMs. There are many arguments and facts against that baseless theory.

Yes and Lost in the end with their incompetence. That's a war they should have won, they had the Israelis effectively on the back foot.

Nope they did not lose.

There is no evidence that Russian Officers were commanding it, and what good are those outdated planes with untrained pilots against the likes of F15's and F16's.

Of course there is plenty of evidence:

Оперативно-стратегическое руководство сирийскими войсками осуществлялось при помощи наших военных советников в центральном аппарате министерства обороны САР и в тесном контакте с руководством страны.

http://old.redstar.ru/2002/02/28_02/2_01.html

Под руководством советских генералов и офицеров в долине Бекаа были созданы хорошо укреплённые оборонительные рубежи и мощные опорные пункты в сочетании с ложными целями и позициями.

http://alerozin.narod.ru/Syria81.htm

Оперативно-стратегическое руководство осуществлялось и продолжается при помощи наших советников при центральном аппарате Министерства обороны Сирии.

http://litru.ru/book/?p=14283&page=16

That's just a desperate rant from you

Everything I listed there are plain and simple facts.

 

[AmirPatriot]

How does it matter?

#

It matters because they got $72 billion in aid and we didn't. This whole talk is about uneven balance of resources and weapons. Iraq had far better sources of both.

This is all what we have purchased, Israel didn't receive aid money until 1985

Oh, now we're talking about actually being given shit for free? Iran didn't get any aid, ever.

what do you think he has his own APS?

Well maybe if Rouhani was standing in the middle of the Negev with a big sign on the ground saying "shoot me", but deep in Iran? A few slow, big drones wouldn't have a hope of getting through the air defences, let alone actually punch through the presidential palace and kill him. LAHAT is an ATGM, not a Mk-83 bomb.

I am not going to start discussing Israel killing the Iranian president with a fvcking UCAV launched ATGM, thats just too completely stupid.

You don't really have a drone with your own design, just copies basically.

Shahed-129
Shahed-125
Shahed-123
Mohajer 1,2,3,4
H-110
Ghods Ababil
Ababil 3
Karrar

And as I shall now prove, Fotros

Quite similar don't you think? Don't deny this, its a copy.

Similar in that they both have a SATCOM nose, both have a twin boom design, and both have wings.

Fotros has a major design difference which is a much flatter underside for the whole aircraft, while the Eitan is more rounded.

Fotros has different vertical stabilizer design with different camber.

Fotros does not have the boom/mast on top of the fuselage that Eitan does.

Fotros has a different air intake which blends into the fuselage. The Eitan's separates from the fuselage until further back.

Fotros has a larger SATCOM "bubble".

Fotros has a flattened off propeller area, Eitan more tapers to a point.

Eitan has small pods on the side of the front fuselage, Fotros doesn't.

Eitan has small pods at the end of the boom (behind the vertical stab), Fotros doesn't.

Its called convergent design.

So this drone is useless now

I said its possible that Iran has acquired SATCOM rights from a third party like China or Russia, in which case it wouldn't be useless.

If a Russian says the sky is blue, you'll just call it Russian propaganda.

8. Not less than a square decimeter for sure from a really close range.

That's right, why don't you go against the findings of eastern and western scientists over the past few decades. You think you know better than them.

It has something with size, that's right, but huge doesn't mean longer range. Look at early ballistic missiles and late ones for example, or space launch rockets.

Well this isn't early. Its designed in the 21st century. Either way, we have to wait until it is publicly unveiled in a few months time.

Russia conquered Germany in the end, you have managed to do basically nothing.

Shallow comparison.

Russia had a huge military industrial complex, the full support of the US, and its enemy was fighting alone a war on two fronts, against the British Empire and the US of all opponents.

Iran had virtually no military industrial complex, the full support of no one significant (only half hearted support from some nations), Iraq was fighting no one else, with the full support of dozens of countries, including both superpowers.

you skipped that you weren't sanctioned by the eastern countries.

The Eastern countries were pressured into not providing arms by the US. And they weren't that keen on Iran anyway. The Soviets in particular were pissed off when we cracked down on the communist insurgents.

11. Well I surely wont believe a guy that opens a thread in a forum.

I don't care. I won't believe Wikipedia either.

 

[Anaoshak]

Israel doing big things with nanotechnology

I am saying that we are way ahead of you.
Don't think you don't have access, You have internet? Believe me you have access to information.
http://2015.igem.org/Team:BGU_Israel Bio engineering
http://www.timesofisrael.com/nano-superpower-israel-to-show-off-its-tech-in-tel-aviv/ Nano engineering

Much more

Where you have lied? "Iran's growth rate is the fastest"
Its not. Number of documents has nothing to do with science growth rate.
We didn't have any other support from the French other than the reactors, the scientists we gathered were Jews, Every Jew in the world has a "free passport" to here.
Israel is in the top of the fields we discussed want it or not, you should grow up, giving me Iranian sites and sites that only tell the number of documents.

No they aren't "way" ahead of Iran.
And your claim was that you are the top of all those science fields we discussed. You aren't even close to being the top.
Israel is DOING big things? So? I never said you don't have a nano-technology research programme. You do.
And your links are just saying that Israel is doing big things in Nano-tech. That's it. Nothing about them being the best, no rankings no nothing. Same thing with the bio engineering link. Doesn't say anything about how good you are according to international rankings or anything, the link you provided is for a competition in Boston 2015, that's it. And in that competition BGU Israel became 1st runner up in the Overgraduate Division While Tu Delft won.

I didn't know that the washingtonpost.com was an Iranian site, and that was just one of the "non-iranian" links i gave, And i didn't even send those links to you, unless KungFuCultMaster is one of your accounts on here.
Iran has the fastest growing rate. Whether you want to admit it or not, go check international links and you'll have the same results. And as i mentioned, it's probably slowed down the past 2 years due to the sanctions and oil embargo. And only a fraction of those were lifted 9 months ago, the rate will go up again.

So what if they were Jews? There are several Jews in Iran, if they invent something here, it doesn't make it an Israeli invention just because they are Jewish. Same thing for the ones in the states. It's a religion. Not a nationality. It's like when Israel offered Persian-Jews from Iran $10,000 to each individual to immigrate to Israel and they told you No and blasted your offer.

Go check your own sites and whatever you deem to be non-iranian sites, and you'll still see that Israel is not even in the top 3 of those fields that you mentioned.

The point of all this discussion is,
Has people stood in the way of Iran developing. Yes.
And is Iran amongst some of the top in certain fields of science, yes. But they don't top the lists like you try to claim Israel does.

Give it time and Iran will grow even more and faster when more sanctions are off. And as i mentioned, your state is not afraid of Iran getting a Nuclear Weapon through their Nuclear energy programme, hell even people in your government said that Iran doesn't even want one. What you are afraid of is Iran developing. And that's why you want the sanctions to stay, because you want Iran to stay isolated and because it hinders their development.

 

[KungFuCultMaster]

If you're saying that sanctions and embargoes don't hinder a country's development, then you are delirious. Plain and simple.
"International collaborations, such as designing and running multinational scientific projects and participation in international congresses and workshops, can help scientific projects to progress. Therefore, isolation of a country because of sanctions might directly affect the growth rate of scientific publications of the country. The situation can be more detrimental when the sanctions target scientific publications."

According to SCIMAGOJR,
In 1996 the number of documents went up from 832 to 40000~ in 2015. Almost 50 times than what it was in 1996.
Faster than anyone else.
As i mentioned, budget cuts, sanctions and etc did lower Iran's ranking in the recent couple of years probably. But they will bounce back up again. I'll try and remember to @ you when they do.

Ok, obivously you're a troll.
You can troll all you want. But that doesn't change facts.

Ridiculous.

Did history start from 1996?

Why not go back to creation of Earth? Then, America would have largest absolute growth comparing its current publication to its prehistoric publication of zero? Or China would have largest absolute growth comparing its current publication in science and technology to its prehistoric publication to zero?

Iran experienced NEGATIVE growth rate in 2015 publications.

That is a FACT. No point denying it.

There are other countries that experienced POSITIVE growth rates.

Again, international collaboration is NOT your right.

You do not have ANY right to collaborate with anybody unless there is mutual consent.

Just like Israel has no right to cooperate with you, no matter how much it begs, unless you consent to it.

Does Israel whine and cry that it is internationally isolated by Middle East and Muslims ?

Simply no.

Quit with your whining.

 

[Anaoshak]

Ridiculous.

Did history start from 1996?

Why not go back to creation of Earth? Then, America would have largest absolute growth comparing its current publication to its prehistoric publication of zero? Or China would have largest absolute growth comparing its current publication in science and technology to its prehistoric publication to zero?

Iran experienced NEGATIVE growth rate in 2015 publications.

That is a FACT. No point denying it.

There are other countries that experienced POSITIVE growth rates.

Again, international collaboration is NOT your right.

You do not have ANY right to collaborate with anybody unless there is mutual consent.

Just like Israel has no right to cooperate with you, no matter how much it begs, unless you consent to it.

Does Israel whine and cry that it is internationally isolated by Middle East and Muslims ?

Simply no.

Quit with your whining.

I already said that I wouldn't be surprised if it did experience Negative growth during the past recent years due to budget cuts because of the Sanctions, namely the oil embargo. Now you're being ridiculous. I compared all countries between 1996-2015. Not just Iran. And during that timeline, Iran vastly outperformed in the growth of their scientific output. Despite the obstacles they had and still have. Which most of the other countries didn't have. Even when Iranians,news articles from both Iran and abroad and etc say that Iran is the fastest growing country in Scientific output It's based on a report that was made during a span of several years. The figures i posted earlier.

Do you think international collaboration is the only thing that matters? No. Access to materials and technology. As mentioned in your own source a few posts back.

In regards to Israel, There is a difference between being isolated by a few countries in the world due to genuine issues. And being isolated by a lot of countries in the world because certain people want to inhibit Iran's development.
There were literally sanctions against Iranians studying abroad, Iranians and others are caught and punished for bringing back research and materials from U.S, they are not having access to technology and papers. Hell even in some apple stores they had a policy of asking "Are you Iranian?" to make sure that they weren't selling anything to Iranians.

Do you think the Americans would have developed without the British? Or the Allied without access to German technology?
Or the Romans would have been without the Greeks? Or the western world would have without the Greeks? Or lets say medicine would have without access to the Canon of Avicenna and etc?
Or Israel would have been without access to the worlds science hub as well as massive funding from abroad?
No. If you have access, then you'll develop. Access to technology,money, trade or whatever.

Just as Beny mentioned, Israel got their Nuclear Reactor from France and took it from there, and that's just one of the examples. Access. Same thing with the F-25's.
If we are talking about fighter jets for example, Right now, for a fighter jet to be completed in Iran, Iran needs to build or get a viable engine. That's the only part they struggle with. And when Israel built their Jets, they had american engines. Still even do. Both fully American as well as some they build through collaboration. Iran is not allowed to.

And you're right that Iran does not have the right to collaborate with countries if there is no mutual consent. But that's not the issue. The issue is that certain countries are forcing/blackmailing OTHER countries,companies and institutions not to collaborate with Iran.
And that's not their right. But they still do it, because of that "either you're with us or against us" mentality.
For example, In 2014, American authorities put a $5 million bounty on Chinese businessman Li Fangwei for dealing with Iran. And that's just one example of many. They've threatened countries to cancel contracts and other stuff if they didn't vote in favour of the sanctions or if they worked with Iran. And etc.

Iran has done what it could with what it has. And that's that. And they've done better than just about all other countries under sanctions when it comes to their development. And better than most countries who are without sanctions.

And if you are saying that no one has stood in the way of Iran's development, then you are either delusional or turning a blind eye. Whether it be the first world war or when Reza Shah was disposed and his son got to take over or when the democracy was crushed in 53, or right now with the Sanctions. During several times, there has been a few countries standing in the way or Iran's development. And that's it. They have a "either you're with us, or you're against us" mentality and whenever Iran is on a path of development, whether it be in human development, science etc..they've crushed it. It's just not as easy to do that now as it was before.

 

[KungFuCultMaster]

I already said that I wouldn't be surprised if it did experience Negative growth during the past recent years due to budget cuts because of the Sanctions, namely the oil embargo. Now you're being ridiculous. I compared all countries between 1996-2015. Not just Iran. And during that timeline, Iran vastly outperformed in the growth of their scientific output. Despite the obstacles they had and still have. Which most of the other countries didn't have. Even when Iranians,news articles from both Iran and abroad and etc say that Iran is the fastest growing country in Scientific output It's based on a report that was made during a span of several years. The figures i posted earlier.

Do you think international collaboration is the only thing that matters? No. Access to materials and technology. As mentioned in your own source a few posts back.

In regards to Israel, There is a difference between being isolated by a few countries in the world due to genuine issues. And being isolated by a lot of countries in the world because certain people want to inhibit Iran's development.
There were literally sanctions against Iranians studying abroad, Iranians and others are caught and punished for bringing back research and materials from U.S, they are not having access to technology and papers. Hell even in some apple stores they had a policy of asking "Are you Iranian?" to make sure that they weren't selling anything to Iranians.

Do you think the Americans would have developed without the British? Or the Allied without access to German technology?
Or the Romans would have been without the Greeks? Or the western world would have without the Greeks? Or lets say medicine would have without access to the Canon of Avicenna and etc?
Or Israel would have been without access to the worlds science hub as well as massive funding from abroad?
No. If you have access, then you'll develop. Access to technology,money, trade or whatever.

Just as Beny mentioned, Israel got their Nuclear Reactor from France and took it from there, and that's just one of the examples. Access. Same thing with the F-25's.
If we are talking about fighter jets for example, Right now, for a fighter jet to be completed in Iran, Iran needs to build or get a viable engine. That's the only part they struggle with. And when Israel built their Jets, they had american engines. Still even do. Both fully American as well as some they build through collaboration. Iran is not allowed to.

And you're right that Iran does not have the right to collaborate with countries if there is no mutual consent. But that's not the issue. The issue is that certain countries are forcing/blackmailing OTHER countries,companies and institutions not to collaborate with Iran.
And that's not their right. But they still do it, because of that "either you're with us or against us" mentality.
For example, In 2014, American authorities put a $5 million bounty on Chinese businessman Li Fangwei for dealing with Iran. And that's just one example of many. They've threatened countries to cancel contracts and other stuff if they didn't vote in favour of the sanctions or if they worked with Iran. And etc.

Iran has done what it could with what it has. And that's that. And they've done better than just about all other countries under sanctions when it comes to their development. And better than most countries who are without sanctions.

And if you are saying that no one has stood in the way of Iran's development, then you are either delusional or turning a blind eye. Whether it be the first world war or when Reza Shah was disposed and his son got to take over or when the democracy was crushed in 53, or right now with the Sanctions. During several times, there has been a few countries standing in the way or Iran's development. And that's it. They have a "either you're with us, or you're against us" mentality and whenever Iran is on a path of development, whether it be in human development, science etc..they've crushed it. It's just not as easy to do that now as it was before.

More of that same old whining and crying.

Go find yourself a corner.

After World War II, Germany and Japan were devastated. In their entirety. They sprang back up into action within a few decades. Asian Tigers did so too.

North Korea maintains the world's largest special forces, largest artillery inventory, capable of raining up to 500,000 shells an hour on South Korea with a population of only 24 million.

Iran ? Nowhere in sight.

No conventional military might, no unconventional military might.

Again, why does history start from 1996 and not from 2015?

If you want to go back in history, let's start from the creation of the Earth. Then, the USA had the highest absolute growth in output (all papers) since that creation of the Earth, and China had the highest absolute growth in output in sci/tech papers.

Absurd.

You whine and cry about Iran's supposed developments being sabotaged but never mention that almost everything in your arsenal is foreign or derived from foreign weapons. After 1979 they are mostly from Russia, China or even North Korea. And before 1979, you got a lot of equipment from Americans and even Saddam's Iraqi pilots fled and left behind a few aircrafts in Iran.

So much for your development drivel.

Israeli Lavi project was shot down by the Americans, Japan's 4th gen fighter project was shot down by the Americans, Canada's Avro Arrow project was sabotaged by the Americans and the list goes on and on. None of them whine as much as you do because of your own failure.

Collaboration is NOT a right, again, it is a privilege.

If those countries do not want to anger US, they can collaborate with Iran. Where is the problem? Obviously, Iran is worthless to them so they throw you a bone or two from time to time and let you bark by the side of the road.

If you were capable, you would have been mass producing ICBM thermonuclear bombs SSGN SSBN ASAT weapons and ABM systems by now, so that it would not matter what Americans say or do. If the Americans do not obey your dictats, you could simply have captured their troops and bases in your vicinity and nuked the continental United States (CONUS) till kingdom come. Israel too could have been razed to the ground. Obviously you lack any semblance of that capability.

Pfft...all you do is produce a silly cardboard mock up called Qaher and pretend to be a scientific powerhouse with some hocus pocus dog and pony show.

FACT: Iran's scientific publication in 2015 DECLINED, experienced NEGATIVE growth rate.

And you have some of the largest oil and gas reserves in the world, earned trillions of dollars in geological windfall, yet you can not refine your own petroleum or develop your own oil and gas fields. Pathetic.

Give 1/10 of that windfall to North Korea, and 1/10 the access to world's markets to North Korea, they would have taken South Korea back by now.

You talk about access to equipment.

Do you need access to foreign equipment to win International Mathematics Olympiads?

How does North Korea manage to outperform Iran there? With all the more pressing and intolerable difficulties and much lower population than you to work with?

You can't make your silly excuse now.

Do you need foreign equipment to win International Mathematical Olympiads too? How can DPRK much more isolated embargoed sanctioned sabotaged country with no resource windfall of trillions of euros worth win more than you and perform better than you?

Whine and cry some more.

 

[Beny Karachun]

No they aren't "way" ahead of Iran.
And your claim was that you are the top of all those science fields we discussed. You aren't even close to being the top.
Israel is DOING big things? So? I never said you don't have a nano-technology research programme. You do.
And your links are just saying that Israel is doing big things in Nano-tech. That's it. Nothing about them being the best, no rankings no nothing. Same thing with the bio engineering link. Doesn't say anything about how good you are according to international rankings or anything, the link you provided is for a competition in Boston 2015, that's it. And in that competition BGU Israel became 1st runner up in the Overgraduate Division While Tu Delft won.

I didn't know that the washingtonpost.com was an Iranian site, and that was just one of the "non-iranian" links i gave, And i didn't even send those links to you, unless KungFuCultMaster is one of your accounts on here.
Iran has the fastest growing rate. Whether you want to admit it or not, go check international links and you'll have the same results. And as i mentioned, it's probably slowed down the past 2 years due to the sanctions and oil embargo. And only a fraction of those were lifted 9 months ago, the rate will go up again.

So what if they were Jews? There are several Jews in Iran, if they invent something here, it doesn't make it an Israeli invention just because they are Jewish. Same thing for the ones in the states. It's a religion. Not a nationality. It's like when Israel offered Persian-Jews from Iran $10,000 to each individual to immigrate to Israel and they told you No and blasted your offer.

Go check your own sites and whatever you deem to be non-iranian sites, and you'll still see that Israel is not even in the top 3 of those fields that you mentioned.

The point of all this discussion is,
Has people stood in the way of Iran developing. Yes.
And is Iran amongst some of the top in certain fields of science, yes. But they don't top the lists like you try to claim Israel does.

Give it time and Iran will grow even more and faster when more sanctions are off. And as i mentioned, your state is not afraid of Iran getting a Nuclear Weapon through their Nuclear energy programme, hell even people in your government said that Iran doesn't even want one. What you are afraid of is Iran developing. And that's why you want the sanctions to stay, because you want Iran to stay isolated and because it hinders their development.

They also give examples what they are.
I'll give you some examples right now.
Bio-Retina,
a tiny implantable device inserted into the retina in a 30-minute procedure, turns into an artificial retina that melds to the neurons in the eye. Activated by special eyeglasses, the device transforms natural light into an electrical impulse that stimulates neurons to send images to the brain. The prototype is advancing quickly through clinical trials.

MicronJet- is a unique, FDA-approved single-use needle for painless delivery of vaccines into the skin using semiconductor technology. The product has been proven to generate superior immune response with less vaccine, because it does not go past the skin level. Licensed last year to Janssen Pharmaceuticals, MicronJet is being used by the US Center of Disease Control (CDC) in a large trial of polio vaccine for infants in Southeast Asia.

OrSense’s NBM-200 non-invasive monitor is relied upon by blood donation centers in 40 countries for continuous and spot measuring of potential donors’ hemoglobin level (to check for anemia) and other blood parameters. This device eliminates the need for finger pricking as well as biologically hazardous equipment and waste. Studies show that donors screened this way are more likely to become repeat blood donors. OrSense recently completed successful trials using its technology to detect hemorrhage and anemia in pregnant women.

Surpass Medical’s NeuroEndoGraft flow diverters redirect blood flow from a brain aneurysm (a bulge in a weak artery wall), so that a stable clot can form and the potentially fatal aneurysm no longer is in danger of rupturing. The family of devices has the CE Mark and has been used successfully in dozens of patients. US medical device manufacturer Stryker acquired Surpass for $100 million in October 2012.

And I can find you more, and that's just the technology in medicine (With usage of nano materials and biotechnology)

And, if you didn't know, all of the "Top 3" and "Top ..." are about number of documents, this way Japan, China, the US always come out in the first places.

I am saying that all Jews are allowed in Israel, basically with an Israeli passport and citizenship.
They don't invent something there and then come here so we can claim that we invented it here.

You might not know but almost all the Jews migrated from Iran to Israel.
And when did I say that Washington was an Iranian site? He said that this "nano" something site was
Iranian, not me.

#

It matters because they got $72 billion in aid and we didn't. This whole talk is about uneven balance of resources and weapons. Iraq had far better sources of both.



Oh, now we're talking about actually being given shit for free? Iran didn't get any aid, ever.



Well maybe if Rouhani was standing in the middle of the Negev with a big sign on the ground saying "shoot me", but deep in Iran? A few slow, big drones wouldn't have a hope of getting through the air defences, let alone actually punch through the presidential palace and kill him. LAHAT is an ATGM, not a Mk-83 bomb.

I am not going to start discussing Israel killing the Iranian president with a fvcking UCAV launched ATGM, thats just too completely stupid.



Shahed-129
Shahed-125
Shahed-123
Mohajer 1,2,3,4
H-110
Ghods Ababil
Ababil 3
Karrar

And as I shall now prove, Fotros



Similar in that they both have a SATCOM nose, both have a twin boom design, and both have wings.

Fotros has a major design difference which is a much flatter underside for the whole aircraft, while the Eitan is more rounded.

Fotros has different vertical stabilizer design with different camber.

Fotros does not have the boom/mast on top of the fuselage that Eitan does.

Fotros has a different air intake which blends into the fuselage. The Eitan's separates from the fuselage until further back.

Fotros has a larger SATCOM "bubble".

Fotros has a flattened off propeller area, Eitan more tapers to a point.

Eitan has small pods on the side of the front fuselage, Fotros doesn't.

Eitan has small pods at the end of the boom (behind the vertical stab), Fotros doesn't.

Its called convergent design.



I said its possible that Iran has acquired SATCOM rights from a third party like China or Russia, in which case it wouldn't be useless.

If a Russian says the sky is blue, you'll just call it Russian propaganda.



That's right, why don't you go against the findings of eastern and western scientists over the past few decades. You think you know better than them.



Well this isn't early. Its designed in the 21st century. Either way, we have to wait until it is publicly unveiled in a few months time.



Shallow comparison.

Russia had a huge military industrial complex, the full support of the US, and its enemy was fighting alone a war on two fronts, against the British Empire and the US of all opponents.

Iran had virtually no military industrial complex, the full support of no one significant (only half hearted support from some nations), Iraq was fighting no one else, with the full support of dozens of countries, including both superpowers.



The Eastern countries were pressured into not providing arms by the US. And they weren't that keen on Iran anyway. The Soviets in particular were pissed off when we cracked down on the communist insurgents.




I don't care. I won't believe Wikipedia either.

I don't really care, complain against the Arabs not me, they bought it.

Iran wasn't given aid? Right here buddy.

Of course they have hope, but we can also send a Harop which is much quicker and suicide bomb him, that would be really called "Irony" you think ATGMs cannot kill? Believe me, if Israel wanted to assassinate any leader it would have.

And you might not know, the LAHAT is also designed for base defense, against infantry too. Or, again, Harop, or for that matter a cheaper Harpy could do the job.

Alright, of course it is, just as the Chinese Su 27s are their design

In your stories everything is possible and better than what it is.

Yeah, VHF is Russian propaganda if this is what you talk about. Because the VHF clearly didn't work against the dozens of F117s in Yugoslavia, they only worked against one F117 with his weapons bay opened.

What you think today's radar's can detect 1 mm from lets say 10 kilometers?

It was you that compared the Iran Iraq war to WW2, not me.

I wonder if so how did you get bunch of T72 cannons, technology from North Korea and more?

 

[AmirPatriot]

They also give examples what they are.
I'll give you some examples right now.
Bio-Retina,
a tiny implantable device inserted into the retina in a 30-minute procedure, turns into an artificial retina that melds to the neurons in the eye. Activated by special eyeglasses, the device transforms natural light into an electrical impulse that stimulates neurons to send images to the brain. The prototype is advancing quickly through clinical trials.

MicronJet- is a unique, FDA-approved single-use needle for painless delivery of vaccines into the skin using semiconductor technology. The product has been proven to generate superior immune response with less vaccine, because it does not go past the skin level. Licensed last year to Janssen Pharmaceuticals, MicronJet is being used by the US Center of Disease Control (CDC) in a large trial of polio vaccine for infants in Southeast Asia.

OrSense’s NBM-200 non-invasive monitor is relied upon by blood donation centers in 40 countries for continuous and spot measuring of potential donors’ hemoglobin level (to check for anemia) and other blood parameters. This device eliminates the need for finger pricking as well as biologically hazardous equipment and waste. Studies show that donors screened this way are more likely to become repeat blood donors. OrSense recently completed successful trials using its technology to detect hemorrhage and anemia in pregnant women.

Surpass Medical’s NeuroEndoGraft flow diverters redirect blood flow from a brain aneurysm (a bulge in a weak artery wall), so that a stable clot can form and the potentially fatal aneurysm no longer is in danger of rupturing. The family of devices has the CE Mark and has been used successfully in dozens of patients. US medical device manufacturer Stryker acquired Surpass for $100 million in October 2012.

And I can find you more, and that's just the technology in medicine (With usage of nano materials and biotechnology)

And, if you didn't know, all of the "Top 3" and "Top ..." are about number of documents, this way Japan, China, the US always come out in the first places.

I am saying that all Jews are allowed in Israel, basically with an Israeli passport and citizenship.
They don't invent something there and then come here so we can claim that we invented it here.

You might not know but almost all the Jews migrated from Iran to Israel.
And when did I say that Washington was an Iranian site? He said that this "nano" something site was
Iranian, not me.


I don't really care, complain against the Arabs not me, they bought it.

Iran wasn't given aid? Right here buddy.

Of course they have hope, but we can also send a Harop which is much quicker and suicide bomb him, that would be really called "Irony" you think ATGMs cannot kill? Believe me, if Israel wanted to assassinate any leader it would have.

And you might not know, the LAHAT is also designed for base defense, against infantry too. Or, again, Harop, or for that matter a cheaper Harpy could do the job.

Alright, of course it is, just as the Chinese Su 27s are their design

In your stories everything is possible and better than what it is.

Yeah, VHF is Russian propaganda if this is what you talk about. Because the VHF clearly didn't work against the dozens of F117s in Yugoslavia, they only worked against one F117 with his weapons bay opened.

What you think today's radar's can detect 1 mm from lets say 10 kilometers?

It was you that compared the Iran Iraq war to WW2, not me.

I wonder if so how did you get bunch of T72 cannons, technology from North Korea and more?

Yay it got banned

 

[Anaoshak]

More of that same old whining and crying.

Go find yourself a corner.

After World War II, Germany and Japan were devastated. In their entirety. They sprang back up into action within a few decades. Asian Tigers did so too.

North Korea maintains the world's largest special forces, largest artillery inventory, capable of raining up to 500,000 shells an hour on South Korea with a population of only 24 million.

Iran ? Nowhere in sight.

No conventional military might, no unconventional military might.

Again, why does history start from 1996 and not from 2015?

If you want to go back in history, let's start from the creation of the Earth. Then, the USA had the highest absolute growth in output (all papers) since that creation of the Earth, and China had the highest absolute growth in output in sci/tech papers.

Absurd.

You whine and cry about Iran's supposed developments being sabotaged but never mention that almost everything in your arsenal is foreign or derived from foreign weapons. After 1979 they are mostly from Russia, China or even North Korea. And before 1979, you got a lot of equipment from Americans and even Saddam's Iraqi pilots fled and left behind a few aircrafts in Iran.

So much for your development drivel.

Israeli Lavi project was shot down by the Americans, Japan's 4th gen fighter project was shot down by the Americans, Canada's Avro Arrow project was sabotaged by the Americans and the list goes on and on. None of them whine as much as you do because of your own failure.

Collaboration is NOT a right, again, it is a privilege.

If those countries do not want to anger US, they can collaborate with Iran. Where is the problem? Obviously, Iran is worthless to them so they throw you a bone or two from time to time and let you bark by the side of the road.

If you were capable, you would have been mass producing ICBM thermonuclear bombs SSGN SSBN ASAT weapons and ABM systems by now, so that it would not matter what Americans say or do. If the Americans do not obey your dictats, you could simply have captured their troops and bases in your vicinity and nuked the continental United States (CONUS) till kingdom come. Israel too could have been razed to the ground. Obviously you lack any semblance of that capability.

Pfft...all you do is produce a silly cardboard mock up called Qaher and pretend to be a scientific powerhouse with some hocus pocus dog and pony show.

FACT: Iran's scientific publication in 2015 DECLINED, experienced NEGATIVE growth rate.

And you have some of the largest oil and gas reserves in the world, earned trillions of dollars in geological windfall, yet you can not refine your own petroleum or develop your own oil and gas fields. Pathetic.

Give 1/10 of that windfall to North Korea, and 1/10 the access to world's markets to North Korea, they would have taken South Korea back by now.

You talk about access to equipment.

Do you need access to foreign equipment to win International Mathematics Olympiads?

How does North Korea manage to outperform Iran there? With all the more pressing and intolerable difficulties and much lower population than you to work with?

You can't make your silly excuse now.

Do you need foreign equipment to win International Mathematical Olympiads too? How can DPRK much more isolated embargoed sanctioned sabotaged country with no resource windfall of trillions of euros worth win more than you and perform better than you?

Whine and cry some more.

Ok, obviously you're a troll. You yourself were talking about how Iranians, sites and news outlets were using a study to say that it's the fastest growing nation in scientific output and that study based on a span of several years. Fact.

Fact, There has been and there are currently several countries standing in the way of Iran's development. Not even North Korea has had that many countries standing in it's way, if you knew more about the history of sanctions on both those countries, then you'd know that. And if you knew anything about the North Korean missile programme/military, then you'd know how they advanced in that field. Because from my understanding, you're talking about the missile program, and some elements of the military. Since that's the field where they have progressed the most, and Iran has progressed more in the others but they'll catch up. Anyway, i digress.
And i agree that if North Korea also didn't have sanctions, they would develop more as well. And kudos to them as well for doing the best they can with what they have.

And regarding Iran's future,
As i mentioned to you earlier, when the sanctions are gone. You'll see what'll happen. And that's that. You can keep on trolling but i don't care.

You've shown our lack of knowledge.

They also give examples what they are.
I'll give you some examples right now.
Bio-Retina,
a tiny implantable device inserted into the retina in a 30-minute procedure, turns into an artificial retina that melds to the neurons in the eye. Activated by special eyeglasses, the device transforms natural light into an electrical impulse that stimulates neurons to send images to the brain. The prototype is advancing quickly through clinical trials.

MicronJet- is a unique, FDA-approved single-use needle for painless delivery of vaccines into the skin using semiconductor technology. The product has been proven to generate superior immune response with less vaccine, because it does not go past the skin level. Licensed last year to Janssen Pharmaceuticals, MicronJet is being used by the US Center of Disease Control (CDC) in a large trial of polio vaccine for infants in Southeast Asia.

OrSense’s NBM-200 non-invasive monitor is relied upon by blood donation centers in 40 countries for continuous and spot measuring of potential donors’ hemoglobin level (to check for anemia) and other blood parameters. This device eliminates the need for finger pricking as well as biologically hazardous equipment and waste. Studies show that donors screened this way are more likely to become repeat blood donors. OrSense recently completed successful trials using its technology to detect hemorrhage and anemia in pregnant women.

Surpass Medical’s NeuroEndoGraft flow diverters redirect blood flow from a brain aneurysm (a bulge in a weak artery wall), so that a stable clot can form and the potentially fatal aneurysm no longer is in danger of rupturing. The family of devices has the CE Mark and has been used successfully in dozens of patients. US medical device manufacturer Stryker acquired Surpass for $100 million in October 2012.

And I can find you more, and that's just the technology in medicine (With usage of nano materials and biotechnology)

And, if you didn't know, all of the "Top 3" and "Top ..." are about number of documents, this way Japan, China, the US always come out in the first places.

I am saying that all Jews are allowed in Israel, basically with an Israeli passport and citizenship.
They don't invent something there and then come here so we can claim that we invented it here.

You might not know but almost all the Jews migrated from Iran to Israel.
And when did I say that Washington was an Iranian site? He said that this "nano" something site was
Iranian, not me.


I don't really care, complain against the Arabs not me, they bought it.

Iran wasn't given aid? Right here buddy.

Of course they have hope, but we can also send a Harop which is much quicker and suicide bomb him, that would be really called "Irony" you think ATGMs cannot kill? Believe me, if Israel wanted to assassinate any leader it would have.

And you might not know, the LAHAT is also designed for base defense, against infantry too. Or, again, Harop, or for that matter a cheaper Harpy could do the job.

Alright, of course it is, just as the Chinese Su 27s are their design

In your stories everything is possible and better than what it is.

Yeah, VHF is Russian propaganda if this is what you talk about. Because the VHF clearly didn't work against the dozens of F117s in Yugoslavia, they only worked against one F117 with his weapons bay opened.

What you think today's radar's can detect 1 mm from lets say 10 kilometers?

It was you that compared the Iran Iraq war to WW2, not me.

I wonder if so how did you get bunch of T72 cannons, technology from North Korea and more?

As i told you earlier, some of you like to twist and turn fact in your favour. Outright lie. And when you're backed into a corner, you accuse people of being racist, antisemitic and etc.
You've even written things to me now that i haven't even claimed, such as saying that i said the Iran-Iraq war was worse than WW2 :/
You're obviously a troll.
And I don't care what you have to say.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go see Iran win more gold medals at the Olympics.

 

[Solomon2]

Evaluating Hezbollah, part 2

In part one I discussed the background of Hezbollah's formation in the Lebanese context. Now I'll discuss it from the context of its main sponsor, the Iranian mullahs.

The first thing is that the mullahs always planned to establish their hegemony in the middle east. Always. Their public image may be as Koran-quoting religious figures but I knew them - or their close operatives - as college students in Washington, D.C. They drove expensive cars, parked them illegally, atteneded demonstrations, and majored in History and Poli Sci to learn all about tyranny - not so they could fight it, but so they could establish their own using the latest 20th-century techniques.

To this, they added their own Persian twist: the satrapy. It was the technique of Persia's rulers to seek out a disaffected sub-group, support it and arm it to the teeth, and then get it to attack Persia's enemies and thus expand their influence: bloody crimes ensured their loyalty would be to their sponsor, not their homeland.

This sort of thing is only possible on anything other than a small, secret scale in a region that's weak or politically divided. Lebanon of the late 1970s and early 1980s was thus a most fertile ground for mullahs. The combination of shared religious affinity, disaffection, poverty, and weak central government was drew the mullahs in like moths to a flame. Most likely, in my opinion, their influence pre-dated Israel's 1982 invasion and maybe even the earlier 1978 incursion into Lebanon. But as long as the mullahs were weak and the PLO dominant Hezbollah had at most ambition, was small, and could not act.

Of course, once the mullahs had captured Iran they had much more money at their disposal. And once the Israelis - welcomed with flowers into destroyed Lebanese Shia villages - had tossed the PLO out a power vacuum was created.

As mentioned previously, the Israel-supported SLA had no influence among the Shi'a. But the SLA valued its exclusive relationship with Israel and under the mask of friendliness kept the Israelis from enquiring further. Thus the Israelis established no connection with the Lebanese Shi'a, and indeed had no idea what they were or what they were like.

Disaster arrived in harsh form when an Israeli tank column tried to cross a Lebanese Shi'a Ashura procession. The Jewish tankers had no idea what was going on. Why were these people bloodying themselves? Was it some sort of terror incident? Should they fear for the villagers' safety or their own? They tried to interfere and that was most unwelcome - the beginning of open hostility from the Lebanese Shi'a towards the occupying Israelis. Hezbollah used this as a cover to apply Iranian money to dominate the Shi'a, eclipsing the influence of the native Amal militia.

From there hostility to Israelis grew thick and fast. Israelis were caught: they were in Lebanon to improve their own security, but as long as there was no Lebanese Army - for the civil war was still going on - the power vacuum from an Israeli withdrawal would assure a return of the situation before, when the PLO rocketed Israeli towns and villages. Yet as long as the Israelis stayed, their soldiers would be targets. This was not the West Bank or even Gaza - Israel had no intention of establishing settlements in what it unquestioningly considered foreign territory. Furthermore, after the Sabra-Shatila massacres, the Israelis realized that their Christian allies did not share the same set of values they did. So sooner or later it would be time to go.

Hezbollah, provided with ample funds and arms by the Iranians and occupying Syrians, continued to grow. Schooling for the kids and free lunches for the parents...only there's no such thing as a free lunch....

Only Amal could challenge it, but that would be suicide. With no hope of Western military intervention - indeed, with the blessing of Western nations for Syria's domination of Lebanon in the wake of 1991 Desert Storm - Amal accepted a junior position under Hezbollah command. Under the Syrian-sponsored Taif Agreement, all Lebanese factions were substantially disarmed - except Hezbollah, with the excuse that it was a "resistance group" fighting Israel, whereas in reality Hezbollah had every reason to fear an accounting for its crimes against other Lebanese. That is the secret of Hezbollah's success. Now Hezbollah could thrive as never before and who had the power to deny them?

When Israeli forces finally departed - they did the math and concluded it would be safer to keep their soldiers at home rather than out on Lebanon's roads - Hezbollah used its superior propaganda arm to claim the credit, and to justify its continued existence pretended Israel's withdrawal (despite U.N. confirmation) was incomplete. It continued to arm itself and engaged in provocations at the Israeli border, culminating in the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah war that ended with Israel and other foreign nations being given license to use air and naval forces to interdict Hezbollah weapons supply and the return of Lebanese Army troops to the Lebanon-Israel border.

Hezbollah found this arrangement unsatisfactory. Although not occupied by either Israeli or Lebanese forces, this was not the situation they wanted, for Lebanon's national government was starting to assert itself. Until 2008 Hezbollah stuck to the rules of Lebanon's factions: it could interfere and contest, but would not assault its competitors bastions. But in 2008 Hezbollah and its allies invaded their competitors power centers. Hezbollah's occupation may have been brief but its effects long-lasting: an effective veto over Lebanon's national government. Today, Hezbollah is trying to accumulate even more power, that of appointing all Lebanese officials: link

The 2006 Israel-Lebanon mostly affected Hezbollah's strongholds. The next one - and as long as there is Islamic Israel-hatred to cater to, there will be a next one - will be much more devastating, as Hezbollah has captured much of the government, has more weapons, and has hidden much of these beneath the homes of terrified civilians who have sent many of their sons to fight their fellow Lebanese at home, or their Syrian neighbors far away, but few to attack Israel, an Israel that only wanted peace with its neighbors, and enjoyed such for decades at its border with Lebanon.

This is the measure of Hezbollah's success: war, civil war, racial and sectarian animosity, and multiple generations of unjustifiable hatreds.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Furthermore, after the Sabra-Shatila massacres, the Israelis realized that their Christian allies did not share the same set of values they did. So sooner or later it would be time to go.

This is too funny.

I love how you acquitted Israel off the entire massacre. Have you forgotten, Sharon resigned because he was indirectly responsible for it. Israeli Chief of Staff and Officers who had encircled the camp knew exactly what was going on. No matter how you try to justify it my little friend, its been well documented and a UN Report directly blamed Israel for these senseless killings. The weapons and vehicles that Phalanges were operating were supplied by Israel, and the members who carried out the massacres were trained by Israel. Everything is documented, and testimonies are available as per the UN Investigations. But nice try though, trying to absolve Israel of all the blame. Even Israel's own Kahan Commission blamed itself indirectly, and here you're trying to defend the un-defendable when your own country indirectly accepted the blame. Bravo Sir, Bravo.

 

[500]

This is too funny.

I love how you acquitted Israel off the entire massacre. Have you forgotten, Sharon resigned because he was indirectly responsible for it. Israeli Chief of Staff and Officers who had encircled the camp knew exactly what was going on. No matter how you try to justify it my little friend, its been well documented and a UN Report directly blamed Israel for these senseless killings. The weapons and vehicles that Phalanges were operating were supplied by Israel, and the members who carried out the massacres were trained by Israel. Everything is documented, and testimonies are available as per the UN Investigations. But nice try though, trying to absolve Israel of all the blame. Even Israel's own Kahan Commission blamed itself indirectly, and here you're trying to defend the un-defendable when your own country indirectly accepted the blame. Bravo Sir, Bravo.

Phalangist party existed before Israel was even created. There was some cooperation but not much beyond this. Their weapons came mainly from Lebanese army and Syria. Israel trained and armed South Lebanon Army, not the Phalangist.

Israeli role in Sabra and Shatila is compared to Dutch UN troops role in Srebrenica massacre.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Phalangist party existed before Israel was even created. There was some cooperation but not much beyond this. Their weapons came mainly from Lebanese army and Syria. Israel trained and armed South Lebanon Army, not the Phalangist.

Yes but the weapons used that day were Israeli, and the jeeps used were supplied by Israel. You're welcome to go through the Commission's report. Stop Lying

Israeli role in Sabra and Shatila is compared to Dutch UN troops role in Srebrenica massacre.

Not even close. But nice try justifying the massacre, you're comparing apples with oranges.

Your own Kahan report indirectly held Israel responsible for this. Israeli Senior Officers knew exactly what was going on, and they were the ones who demanded the perpetrators to launch the operation. Heck, Israeli flares were illuminating the night allowing for the raping and the killings. Israelis had the firepower and muscle to immediately move in and stop the massacre but they happily stood by enjoying the massacre. Dutch weren't the ones who encouraged the Serbs to go in and carry out the massacre. And they lacked the firepower and the muscle to move in and stop the Serbs.

In the end, the Dutch accepted responsibility and paid out compensation. There were lawsuits, and people responsible were taken to courts. Please don't compare Israeli actions here against that of a Civilized State such as the Netherlands.