Whats behind Hezbullah's success ?

[Beny Karachun]

Lol, what are those links suppose to prove? That you do nano-technology? Never said that you didn't. I said that you don't top the list that you claimed. And you can keep replying to posts that aren't directed towards you if you feel left out.
But I've already proven what you wrote and said to be wrong and false.

You are the troll here, anyone who reads the posts can see that. You know damn well that they had more support than just reactors from France. And even the scientist you recruited were scientists from abroad as well as sent your people abroad to study what you needed to know. As i mentioned access = development.
And tell me where I've lied?
You're the one lying and coming up with bogus claims.
You are the one here saying that Israel tops the world in several scientific fits and when i point out that they don't and give you the rankings, you have a fit. As i said, Israel is not even near the top of the fields we discussed.


Grow up.

Israel doing big things with nanotechnology

I am saying that we are way ahead of you.
Don't think you don't have access, You have internet? Believe me you have access to information.
http://2015.igem.org/Team:BGU_Israel Bio engineering
http://www.timesofisrael.com/nano-superpower-israel-to-show-off-its-tech-in-tel-aviv/ Nano engineering

Much more

Where you have lied? "Iran's growth rate is the fastest"
Its not. Number of documents has nothing to do with science growth rate.
We didn't have any other support from the French other than the reactors, the scientists we gathered were Jews, Every Jew in the world has a "free passport" to here.
Israel is in the top of the fields we discussed want it or not, you should grow up, giving me Iranian sites and sites that only tell the number of documents.

 

[500]

Well than you don't really know these Armies at all than. The Senior Most General does not has to be a Clansmen or a Prince, rather whoever is the most qualified. Comparing a Professional Fighting Force such as the Indian Army or the Pakistani Army against the Tin Pot Arab Armies ? Is this a joke.

Sorry but all your judgements are based solely on your personal stereotypes and nothing else. For example u say that Russian and Pakistani armies are super professional although Russia lost some 5 million people in encirclements - much much more than all other armies in history of mankind combined! Paskistani army lost 90 K people as POWs - more than any other army since WW2.

That's one solution. The gist of my argument is that Hezbollah Officers are far more innovative than their counterparts. Bikes are no magic solution, but it certainly was out of the box thinking just like ISIS with VBIED's. The most effective solution to defeat ATGM's is combined warfare. Effectively using artillery with utmost precision with advancing armoured formations. That's something the SAA still needs to learn and master, something Indian and Pakistani Officers mastered decades ago. Here's one difference for you.

These bikes had nothing to do with ATGMs. I don't know where from u got that idea at all. Hezbies used them for quite a short period in Qalamoun, where rebels had very small number of ATGMs. They never used any bikes in Latakia, Idlib, Aleppo with large numbed of ATGMs. In fact we don't see their bikes in Qalamoun anymore either so the experience was not very successful apparently. Anyway bikes were used since WW1 nothing new about it at all.

If u talk about innovation, then Egyptian army used water cannons to wash out sand walls erected by Israel along Suez Canal (idea proposed by young Egyptian officer). That was a real innovation that affected the course of the war.

What is also noticeable is that Egyptian army, which kicked Russian advisors performed way better than Syrian army which had swarms of advisors + also received super massive amounts of aid from USSR.

 

[AmirPatriot]

they SOLD them. not just gave it for free

Just the fact that they sold them at all to a genocidal maniac who gassed his own people shows how desperate they were. And Saddam bought them with money from the Persian Gulf Arab countries.

Yes, billions of bullets

OK live in your fantasy.

the Arabs still got weapons from the Russians

I didn't say they didn't.

how is it "lies"?

You said they didn't get anything before 1973. Now, if you mean they didn't get anything until near the end of the war, that doesn't matter. As soon as they saw you needed it, they gave you the weapons. No need, no weapons.

Those countries gave MORE weapons than the Americans gave us, more and in some cases better.

Maybe in the early days, but then the Americans stepped up. Between '67 and '73 they sold you hundreds of aircraft and thousands of missile, dozens of helicopters, hundreds of tanks, hundreds of artillery pieces... I could go on.

has a data link of only 200km

So? Its for border patrol and terrorist busting. 24 hour endurance doesn't mean you have to fly it very far away.

have a CEP of 1000 meters or more

First of all, you said ALL Iranian ballistic missiles have a 1 km+ CEP. Now you say only the ones reaching Israel? That may have been the case 20 years ago, but even the Shahab 3 has been estimated to have a CEP as low as 190 metres.

And now we have the Emad missile, with a precision guided warhead (notice the fins).

its some Russian propaganda

@gambit

No, its basic physics. Stealth is designed to counter UHF (Ultra High Frequency) radar bands, like the X band. Counter stealth radar acts in the VHF (Very High Frequency). This means that the wavelengths are longer, and so aren't affected by the very small variations in the aircraft's shape. You claim its Russian propaganda, but its a proven concept accepted by all western defence analysts.

take the Patriot for example, they are bigger than the S400 missiles but have lower range

Nope. The PAC-2 missile is 5.31 metres long, 87 cm in diameter and has a range of up to 160 km. The Russian 48N6E2 missile is 7.5 metres long, 50 cm in diameter, and a range of 195 km - and that's just the export version. The 48N6E3 used in the S-400 has a range of 250 km. The longest range missile in the S-400 system is the 40N6 missile, with a range of 400 km.

If Israel couldn't buy engines it will make them.

In the 1980s, Israel develop and field a combat ready jet engine? Ridiculous. You are underestimating the huge sophistication of metallurgy required for doing so. If the rest of the world didn't want you to have an engine, they would simply sanction you, because Israel doesn't have the minerals required, nor did it have the metallurgy technology (unless you can prove otherwise).

And don't worry about the nuclear deal, we are about to break it a little

What a surprise.

 

[500]

Got any proof to back up your skepticism? Or is it just trolling as usual?

1) U can see according its shape its small short wings.
2) It moves very fast compare to clouds - means low again small drone.
3) It lacks satcom, so no any 2000 km possible.

Here two different versions of Shahed crashed in Syria:

This is smaller:

This one slightly bigger:

Both are smaller than Hermes 450.

 

[AmirPatriot]

1) U can see according its shape its small short wings.
2) It moves very fast compare to clouds - means low again small drone.
3) It lacks satcom, so no any 2000 km possible.

Here two different versions of Shahed crashed in Syria:

This is smaller:

This one slightly bigger:

Both are smaller than Hermes 450.

1) Those wings don't look particularly small to me. They look like the S-129's wings.

2) Just because it flies at low altitude doesn't mean its small.

3) We are working on SATCOM, but even then it can have a 2000 km range, by patrolling borders and flying in areas where there are control stations. That ensures high endurance.

4) The pictures you posted are of the S-123, which is a smaller UAV not related to the S-129.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Just the fact that they sold them at all to a genocidal maniac who gassed his own people shows how desperate they were. And Saddam bought them with money from the Persian Gulf Arab countries.



OK live in your fantasy.



I didn't say they didn't.



You said they didn't get anything before 1973. Now, if you mean they didn't get anything until near the end of the war, that doesn't matter. As soon as they saw you needed it, they gave you the weapons. No need, no weapons.



Maybe in the early days, but then the Americans stepped up. Between '67 and '73 they sold you hundreds of aircraft and thousands of missile, dozens of helicopters, hundreds of tanks, hundreds of artillery pieces... I could go on.



So? Its for border patrol and terrorist busting. 24 hour endurance doesn't mean you have to fly it very far away.



First of all, you said ALL Iranian ballistic missiles have a 1 km+ CEP. Now you say only the ones reaching Israel? That may have been the case 20 years ago, but even the Shahab 3 has been estimated to have a CEP as low as 190 metres.

And now we have the Emad missile, with a precision guided warhead (notice the fins).

@gambit

No, its basic physics. Stealth is designed to counter UHF (Ultra High Frequency) radar bands, like the X band. Counter stealth radar acts in the VHF (Very High Frequency). This means that the wavelengths are longer, and so aren't affected by the very small variations in the aircraft's shape. You claim its Russian propaganda, but its a proven concept accepted by all western defence analysts.



Nope. The PAC-2 missile is 5.31 metres long, 87 cm in diameter and has a range of up to 160 km. The Russian 48N6E2 missile is 7.5 metres long, 50 cm in diameter, and a range of 195 km - and that's just the export version. The 48N6E3 used in the S-400 has a range of 250 km. The longest range missile in the S-400 system is the 40N6 missile, with a range of 400 km.



In the 1980s, Israel develop and field a combat ready jet engine? Ridiculous. You are underestimating the huge sophistication of metallurgy required for doing so. If the rest of the world didn't want you to have an engine, they would simply sanction you, because Israel doesn't have the minerals required, nor did it have the metallurgy technology (unless you can prove otherwise).



What a surprise.

1. Who cares? they sold him, not gave it for free.
2. No fantasy. The factory I am working at (Exporting department, nothing physical) was a part of
3. So what is your point?
4. It wasn't as soon as they saw we needed it, it was as soon as we've shown the Jerichos
5. The total amount of aid the Arabs got was much bigger than the amount of aid Israel have gotten.
6. The point is that it only have 200km real range, this is just useless if so, our drones can actually reach Iran from here while your "long range drones" that are basically copies of American ones cant even reach further than 200km
7. When I talk about ballistic missiles I am talking about missiles that can actually reach Israel, for example, according to Wikipedia the Emad missile you were talking about has a CEP of over 500 meters.
It is not hard to make short ranged precise missiles however. Something you cannot achieve and anyways cannot penetrate our air defenses.
8. The Yugoslavians were using VHF radars, while they were only able to shoot down one F117 after his weapons bay was open. And to remind you the F117 radar signature is much bigger than the F22's and F35's Clearly- a debunked myth.
9. You think that the 48N6E3 is bigger? All it is is longer, but its diameter is smaller, they are basically the same size, Its all about the engine and aerodynamics. not size.
10. Why would anyone sanction us? The only ones that sanctioned you were the US and EU, not Russia, not China not your "fellow" Arab states.
Believe me, if Israel had to, we would have made an engine.

 

[Major d1]

Hizbullah is still now on the ground , so where they are succeed?

 

[500]

1) Those wings don't look particularly small to me. They look like the S-129's wings.

2) Just because it flies at low altitude doesn't mean its small.

3) We are working on SATCOM, but even then it can have a 2000 km range, by patrolling borders and flying in areas where there are control stations. That ensures high endurance.

4) The pictures you posted are of the S-123, which is a smaller UAV not related to the S-129.

Shahed 123 is very different fat and small:

 

[Solomon2]

Whats behind Hezbullah's success ? Most of the armies in the middle east has nothing short of been a total failure from Egypt , to Iraq(which is improving now) to Syrian to other armies out there. Just want to know what makes Hezbullah different from these sad lot. Do they get special military training from somewhere else ? or is it simply their circumstances which they were formed in ?

@Irfan Baloch @Oscar @waz @notorious_eagle @Solomon2

You want an outsider's view? This will take me awhile. To begin evaluating Hezbollah one first has to consider its home base, Lebanon. Here's my analysis, for what it's worth:

Lebanon's "confessional system" is rather unique. Although there is a constitutional federal structure and by mandate the P.M. is always a Muslim and the president is always a Christian, the federal gov't is the product of the balance of power between the confessional groups.

This has the effect of tempting foreign powers to sponsor their own favored groups via money, arms, or personnel- and for the different groups to actually invite such intervention - to bring about the results desired. Sometimes the foreigners are pulling the strings, sometimes the Lebanese. Sometimes the foreigners think they're pulling the strings, only to find out too late that they're not - and sometimes it's the other way 'round, the Lebanese believing they're controlling such interventions, only to find out later they outsmarted themselves.

The Lebanese Army itself is usually rather small. Foreign support to the L.A. does not seem to affect the balance of power: the national leadership is too weak. Sometimes, arms and money sent to the L.A. is simply distributed to the confessional groups. The confessional groups may also exercise some control over their soldiers in the L.A.

The groups contest and ally with one another, both at the political level and periodically - as a test of strength and foreign support - by violence. After each contest a new power-sharing arrangement is hammered out between the confessional bosses. What preserves the confessional system is the unwritten rule that no matter how badly a contestant loses there will always be a redoubt or home base the contestant can retreat to: violate that base and the other confessional bosses get alarmed and re-negotiate their alliances to counter such a move.

The confessional system was broken by the invasion of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the 1970s, After Pakistan's Zia helped kick Arafat's PLO out of Jordan in 1970 the terror organization needed a new home. Lebanon was too weak to resist the armed force and money of the Soviet-backed PLO. The PLO invaded southern Lebanon, took over many army bases, and did not care for the niceties and subtleties of Lebanon's political system. Soon, the foreign body of the PLO was on top, which encouraged further division: the Lebanese civil war.

(The PLO also drew support from the UNRWA-supported network of Palestinian Arab "refugee" camps in Lebanon. The population in the camps had limited opportunities for it had not been accorded Lebanese citizenship, if only because doing so would disrupt the confessional balance.)

The PLO's excuse was that it was a "resistance" organization: southern Lebanon was its base for firing rockets into Israel. When Israel finally invaded to clear out the PLO its soldiers were greeted with flowers. The Lebanese were glad Israel sent the PLO packing. Arafat & co., with Western assistance, fled to Tunisia.

Israeli forces stayed in Lebanon. The idea was not conquest but to "improve the neighborhood": Israel did not want the PLO back, the Lebanese Army was less than a skeleton, and the civil war was still raging.. The Lebanese president was dangling the prospect of a peace treaty between Lebanon and Israel. Israel was eager to seek such an outcome.

Unfortunately, Israelis did not perceive that the primary Lebanese goal was not peace with Israel. To the groups Israel befriended it was a weight on the balance scale of power between confessional groups. So on the one hand they encouraged Israel to stay, while on the other they promised other confessional groups to limit their own actions - sort of leaving the Israelis holding the bag.

The Israelis had sponsored the mostly Maronite Christian "South Lebanon Army". Southern Lebanon was populated by Christians and Shi'a Muslims. The Shi'a were comparatively poor and had little political influence before the civil war and even less under the thumb of the SLA.

And that's where the Hezbollah story begins. (part 2 to follow).

 

[AmirPatriot]

Who cares

Fact is that they sold to Saddam a huge quantity of arms while Iran only got a tiny amount in comparison.

Arms sales to Iran - worth a total of about $4.6 billion (1990 dollars)

Arms sales to Iraq - worth a total of about $32 billion, (1990 dollars) all of which was paid for by the Arabs.

No fantasy

Sure...

So what is your point?

My point is that while Israel has had heavy western support for most of its existence, Iran has had at best minimal support from the East.

it was as soon as we've shown the Jerichos

And you showed the Jerichos to tell them that you needed arms and if you didn't get arms you would press the button.

The total amount of aid the Arabs got was much bigger than the amount of aid Israel have gotten.

I wouldn't say much bigger, but even if it was bigger, still nowhere enough to guarantee victory.

our drones can actually reach Iran

So what? What would they do? Fire off a handful of ATGMs? They aren't even needed for reconnaissance when you have spy satellites.

basically copies of American ones

Other than RQ-170 and Scan Eagle Iran hasn't copied any US drones.

cant even reach further than 200km

This one can.

The Yugoslavians were using VHF radars, while they were only able to shoot down one F117 after his weapons bay

F-117 with bomb bay open is still stealthier than most aircraft. And Yugoslavians were using a radar design that is now 60 years old.

they are basically the same size,

So all the more achievement that the 48N6E3 is far longer ranged.

Why would anyone sanction us

Thats not the point. The point is that if they did, you'd be in big trouble, just like we were.

The only ones that sanctioned you were the US and EU, not Russia, not China

They still sold us piddling amounts compared to Iraq. Iraq got 7 times larger value of weapons.

not your "fellow" Arab states.

Iran isn't an Arab country. And the Arabs were busy pumping money into Saddam's coffers.

Believe me, if Israel had to, we would have made an engine.

Suuuuuuuuuure...

according to Wikipedia

Also according to Wikipedia:

 

[notorious_eagle]

Sorry but all your judgements are based solely on your personal stereotypes and nothing else.

And Facts.. I have offered Logic and Facts, one only needs to look at how Indian and Pakistani Armies train to arrive at the conclusion that i have. There is a reason why Pakistani Officers are the most sought after by Arab Armies. But by all means, do tell me your logic and line of thinking why you think i am wrong?

For example u say that Russian and Pakistani armies are super professional although Russia lost some 5 million people in encirclements -

Again, if you actually did your research you wouldn't have made such an idiotic comment. Are we still living in WW2 or are in 2016? The Russians lost millions in encirclement's, Agreed. But that is because the purge wiped out many talented Soviet Officers and the Soviets initially had no answer to the Blitzkrieg. It was a newer type of warfare, that the Russians or even the Allies were not accustomed too. There is a reason why the Germans took France in 2 weeks. But once talent was allowed to rise up, Talented Officers such as Zhukov were allowed to rise. Operation Mars was nothing short of brilliance, Zhukov trapped Paulus Army and wrecked havoc on Army Group B. Blitzkrieg was effectively countered by the Soviets with 'Deep Warfare' Doctrine, not by the Allies. If you're going to come at me, at least come at me with facts and logic instead of trolling.

much much more than all other armies in history of mankind combined! Paskistani army lost 90 K people as POWs - more than any other army since WW2.

Again, if you knew how the War in 1971 was fought you wouldn't have made such an idiotic statement. PA contingent in East Pakistan was fighting thousands of miles away from its territory with an extremely hostile local population. The surrender was given only after the IA assured full protection for the PA Soldiers. And are we still stuck in 1971, or is this 2016. PA today is far more leaner, meaner and can deliver overwhelming firepower with deadly accuracy against any enemy. Put all the likes of FSA, SAA, ISIS, Al Nusra etc against the II Corps of PA, II Corps will make mince meat out of them. Your logic is not only idiotic, but simply out of this world.

These bikes had nothing to do with ATGMs.

I don't know where from u got that idea at all. Hezbies used them for quite a short period in Qalamoun, where rebels had very small number of ATGMs.

You're still not getting my argument. It was a short term solution for a sufficient time, it was out of the box thinking. Can't you get this through your head, instead of trolling.

They never used any bikes in Latakia, Idlib, Aleppo with large numbed of ATGMs. In fact we don't see their bikes in Qalamoun anymore either so the experience was not very successful apparently. Anyway bikes were used since WW1 nothing new about it at all.

Because the rebels devised counters for these bikes.

If u talk about innovation, then Egyptian army used water cannons to wash out sand walls erected by Israel along Suez Canal (idea proposed by young Egyptian officer). That was a real innovation that affected the course of the war.

Off course they did, and it was a brilliant tactical plan. But what happened in the end? Due to their incompetence, they lost a winning battle and got encircled when they were actually winning and had pinned down the Israeli Forces.

What is also noticeable is that Egyptian army, which kicked Russian advisors performed way better than Syrian army which had swarms of advisors + also received super massive amounts of aid from USSR.

Can't really do much when you're super incompetent. It had less to do with Soviets but rather their own incompetence. As i said, these Armies were not Institutions because Officers were promoted based on their loyalty and not merit. Why do you think the Czech or the Polish Army or all the forces that were part of Warsaw Pact were far more effective than their Arab Counterparts? Simple, their Armies were Institutions and not there to further the interests of their leaders.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Fact is that they sold to Saddam a huge quantity of arms while Iran only got a tiny amount in comparison.

Arms sales to Iran - worth a total of about $4.6 billion (1990 dollars)

Arms sales to Iraq - worth a total of about $32 billion, (1990 dollars) all of which was paid for by the Arabs.



Sure...



My point is that while Israel has had heavy western support for most of its existence, Iran has had at best minimal support from the East.



And you showed the Jerichos to tell them that you needed arms and if you didn't get arms you would press the button.



I wouldn't say much bigger, but even if it was bigger, still nowhere enough to guarantee victory.



So what? What would they do? Fire off a handful of ATGMs? They aren't even needed for reconnaissance when you have spy satellites.





Other than RQ-170 and Scan Eagle Iran hasn't copied any US drones.



This one can.

F-117 with bomb bay open is still stealthier than most aircraft. And Yugoslavians were using a radar design that is now 60 years old.



So all the more achievement that the 48N6E3 is far longer ranged.



Thats not the point. The point is that if they did, you'd be in big trouble, just like we were.



They still sold us piddling amounts compared to Iraq. Iraq got 7 times larger value of weapons.



Iran isn't an Arab country. And the Arabs were busy pumping money into Saddam's coffers.



Suuuuuuuuuure...



Also according to Wikipedia:

What's the point? You just instantly say that Iraq didn't buy anything with its money?
Iraq bought the weapons want it or not.

What support did Israel have before 73? tell me? the Arabs had support from the Russians which supplied them much more than what the Americans supported us, don't forget that Israel supported you too with billions of bullets, many spare parts and anti tank recoiless rifles

And exactly, it can be called "blackmailing", this means if we wouldn't get weapons- say bye bye to the Arabs.

Those ATGMs can fly over your president and fire a LAHAT up his ***.

"Other than"

This one is a copy of the Israeli Eitan, can you do something besides copy?
And no, this one cant, you don't have drones with enough communications range.

"F-117 with bomb bay open is still stealthier than most aircraft. And Yugoslavians were using a radar design that is now 60 years old."
the Yuguslavians were still using VHF radars.Anyways even 60 year old radars can see RCS's of a square meter, which is probably less than the weapons bay of the F117

Yes, I know, and thus you proved my point, it has nothing to do with size, its all about aerodynamics and engine efficiency.

You were only sanctioned by the West, not the east, other than the US and the EU no one has sanctioned you.
That leaves you enough ways to buy resources from other nations *Cough* China *Cough* Russia *Cough*

And yes, this is why you've lost, you had less weapons.
What is your point? I don't say that you had more weapons than the Iraqis, I always said you have lost it.

And this is what it really shows:

 

[500]

And Facts.. I have offered Logic and Facts, one only needs to look at how Indian and Pakistani Armies train to arrive at the conclusion that i have. There is a reason why Pakistani Officers are the most sought after by Arab Armies. But by all means, do tell me your logic and line of thinking why you think i am wrong?

What these facts are based on? What makes u think that Indian and Pakistani officers are better than Arab? I did not see a single fact proving that claim.

Again, if you actually did your research you wouldn't have made such an idiotic comment. Are we still living in WW2 or are in 2016? The Russians lost millions in encirclement's, Agreed. But that is because the purge wiped out many talented Soviet Officers and the Soviets initially had no answer to the Blitzkrieg.

Thats myth. Percent was not so high and many purged officers were idiots like Tukhachevsky, who successfully gassed peasant revolts (hello Assad?) but miserably failed vs. Polish army.

It was a newer type of warfare, that the Russians or even the Allies were not accustomed too. There is a reason why the Germans took France in 2 weeks. But once talent was allowed to rise up, Talented Officers such as Zhukov were allowed to rise. Operation Mars was nothing short of brilliance, Zhukov trapped Paulus Army and wrecked havoc on Army Group B. Blitzkrieg was effectively countered by the Soviets with 'Deep Warfare' Doctrine, not by the Allies. If you're going to come at me, at least come at me with facts and logic instead of trolling.

Operation Mars commanded by Zhukov was miserable failure. It was a worst meatgrinder in history two attacking armies were encircled and destroyed.

Again, if you knew how the War in 1971 was fought you wouldn't have made such an idiotic statement. PA contingent in East Pakistan was fighting thousands of miles away from its territory with an extremely hostile local population. The surrender was given only after the IA assured full protection for the PA Soldiers. And are we still stuck in 1971, or is this 2016. PA today is far more leaner, meaner and can deliver overwhelming firepower with deadly accuracy against any enemy. Put all the likes of FSA, SAA, ISIS, Al Nusra etc against the II Corps of PA, II Corps will make mince meat out of them. Your logic is not only idiotic, but simply out of this world.

Well Assad army also fights in hostile population and it seriously undermanned but they dont surrender in thousands.

You're still not getting my argument. It was a short term solution for a sufficient time, it was out of the box thinking. Can't you get this through your head, instead of trolling.

Lets see what happened:
1) You saw Hezbies driving on bikes in Qalamoun.
2) Your baseless conclusion: thats brilliant tactics against ATGMs! It proves how genius and innovative are Hezbies!
3) Facts: there is zero evidence bikes were every used vs. ATGMs, number of rebel ATGMs in Qalamoun was very low so they were never a serious problem for Assadists.
4) I dont know how u can use a bike against ATGM at all. Because u can't sneak with bike coz it makes crazy noise, u cant shoot while u are on bike, in fact u are an excellent target while u are on bike

Off course they did, and it was a brilliant tactical plan. But what happened in the end? Due to their incompetence, they lost a winning battle and got encircled when they were actually winning and had pinned down the Israeli Forces.

They managed to hold territory till the end, unlike the Syrians with swarms of Russian advisors.

Later in 1982 masisve Syrian air defence in Lebanon which was under full command of Russian officers was destroyed without single loss.

Can't really do much when you're super incompetent. It had less to do with Soviets but rather their own incompetence. As i said, these Armies were not Institutions because Officers were promoted based on their loyalty and not merit. Why do you think the Czech or the Polish Army or all the forces that were part of Warsaw Pact were far more effective than their Arab Counterparts? Simple, their Armies were Institutions and not there to further the interests of their leaders.

What else we we have? War was China? - Russia gave up territory that China asked. War in Afghanistan? - after killing 1 million and expelling another 5 millions they retreated not achieving anything. War in Chechnya? - half million Russians were expelled from Chechnya and never returned. 12 thousands Russian soldiers were killed. Now it is ruled by former Chechen rebel warlord who gets billions from Russia for formal loyality. Big success?

 

[Sine Nomine]

Well Assad army also fights in hostile population and it seriously undermanned but they dont surrender in thousands.

How many miles Assad forces are fighting away from Assad and how many allies do they have.

 

[notorious_eagle]

What these facts are based on? What makes u think that Indian and Pakistani officers are better than Arab? I did not see a single fact proving that claim.

Simple, because of their training and the quality of their Officer Schools. While Officers from all over the world come over to Pakistani and Indian Military Academies to study, how many Officers go to Arab Military Academies? Do they even have a Staff College? What exactly is taught there? What is the curriculum of their War Gaming Courses?

Who are the most sought after Officers in the UN? You guessed it, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Indian. Why is it that Arab Armies always approach Pakistan Army to lend its Officers for Training or Leading Missions? Why was it that a Pakistani Officer was required to beat back PLO from Jordan? NATO and American Officers have not once but on multiple occasions praised their Professionalism and Discipline. At the end of the day, Pakistani and Indian Officers rise on the basis of their merit and not loyalty. This is what distinguishes them, i can tell you Pakistani Officers would have been court martial-ed long time ago if they continued to make the same mistakes SAA is making over and over again. You're just desperately trying to clutch to your straws, because i have smacked your argument in your face.

Thats myth. Percent was not so high and many purged officers were idiots like Tukhachevsky, who successfully gassed peasant revolts (hello Assad?) but miserably failed vs. Polish army.

You think this is not big enough, are you incredibly stupid or pretending to be one.

"The purge of the Red Army and Military Maritime Fleet removed three of five marshals (then equivalent to five-star generals), 13 of 15 army commanders (then equivalent to three- and four-star generals), eight of nine admirals (the purge fell heavily on the Navy, who were suspected of exploiting their opportunities for foreign contacts),[30] 50 of 57 army corps commanders, 154 out of 186 division commanders, 16 of 16 armycommissars, and 25 of 28 army corps commissars"

You are calling Tukhachevsky an idiot. Okay its confirmed, you're indeed Stupid and not pretending to be one. The man who was the architect behind 'Deep Operations Doctrine', the doctrine that sinked Nazi Germany's Blitzkrieg. I really have no words to be honest. I am just utterly shocked at your stupidity, its like calling MacArthur or Patton Idiots.

Operation Mars commanded by Zhukov was miserable failure. It was a worst meatgrinder in history two attacking armies were encircled and destroyed.

My bad, i meant to say Operation Uranus

Well Assad army also fights in hostile population and it seriously undermanned but they dont surrender in thousands.

How far away is that hostile population from their core bases? Are they separated by thousands of miles of hostile Indian Territory? How many Pakistani Soldiers or Officers have you seen surrendering to the TTP or ISIS in FATA?

Lets see what happened:
1) You saw Hezbies driving on bikes in Qalamoun.
2) Your baseless conclusion: thats brilliant tactics against ATGMs! It proves how genius and innovative are Hezbies!
3) Facts: there is zero evidence bikes were every used vs. ATGMs, number of rebel ATGMs in Qalamoun was very low so they were never a serious problem for Assadists.
4) I dont know how u can use a bike against ATGM at all. Because u can't sneak with bike coz it makes crazy noise, u cant shoot while u are on bike, in fact u are an excellent target while u are on bike

It's quite clear English is not your First Language as you're having such a hard time comprehending it. The gist of my argument was, it was an out of the box thinking at the time which made an impact. That's it, its not some magic solution to the ATGM Problem. The proper solution would be using artillery effectively with Armored Formations.

They managed to hold territory till the end, unlike the Syrians with swarms of Russian advisors.

Yes and Lost in the end with their incompetence. That's a war they should have won, they had the Israelis effectively on the back foot.

Later in 1982 masisve Syrian air defence in Lebanon which was under full command of Russian officers was destroyed without single loss.

There is no evidence that Russian Officers were commanding it, and what good are those outdated planes with untrained pilots against the likes of F15's and F16's.

What else we we have? War was China? - Russia gave up territory that China asked. War in Afghanistan? - after killing 1 million and expelling another 5 millions they retreated not achieving anything. War in Chechnya? - half million Russians were expelled from Chechnya and never returned. 12 thousands Russian soldiers were killed. Now it is ruled by former Chechen rebel warlord who gets billions from Russia for formal loyality. Big success?

That's just a desperate rant from you