What will a secular pakistan look like?

[qamar1990]

Try this > List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/Country-Profiles/BGD.pdf
There is plenty of information on the web. Google it..

we all know that pakistan is in a better position then bangladesh and secularism doesn't necessarily mean economic success.

 

[Psycho Pakistani]

perhaps how about this " what should pakistan do with afghanistan in the coming years?"
and then make a few points and give a few options.
you open the thread but just do it in a few days so we can have a little discussion on this thread lol.
don't worry I'm not famous here I'm a just an average joe lol.

I will not use the forum in coming days so that is why I am giving you this task , you can start this thread after some time , that is perfectly fine for me but I seriously think that this aspect has NEVER been discussed on any pakistani forum even though it is fundamental to Pakistan's security from its western border's perspective.

 

[Kompromat]

How can we simply import a system and learn to live by it by enforcing it on ourselves while others get to police our progress?
Pakistan needs, Pakistaniat - that will be our system. We need an identity that services our past as well as the future.

 

[anonymus]

Then you don't understand the social contract the Pakistani state has with its Pentalingual citizenry. Pakistan in effect operates as a secular state already as it has a market economy and a constitutional democracy. What Pakistan needs is not western secularism but to invent a solution, specifically tailored for our specific needs.

This is truth and nothing but truth.

You have killed everyone who does not believe in your religion so you have become religiously Secular by default.

Next question: How to make Pakistan secular wrt to Sects?

After that: How to make Pakistan Secular wrt to School of thought?

 

[A.Rafay]

which laws should be gotten rid of and what should we introduce?

For example: Blasphemy laws, Hudood Ordnance which require four witnesses in rape case and abolish reserving minority seats in parliament because there should be no minority, every person should be considered equal citizen.

 

[Kompromat]

Another misconception.
You have not developed an alternate identity of nationalism. You can...and very easily - and it would be more long lasting and stronger than the one based on Islam.

We don't need to replace anything. Pakistanis are socially conservative Muslims who vote for secular parties. What Pakistan needs is to give more time to its democracy, let its institutions evolve at their own pace.

 

[Hyperion]

Pakcular, perhaps?

How can we simply import a system and learn to live by it by enforcing it on ourselves while others get to police our progress?
Pakistan needs, Pakistaniat - that will be our system. We need an identity that services our past as well as the future.

View attachment 38005

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

We don't need to replace anything. Pakistanis are socially conservative Muslims who vote for secular parties. What Pakistan needs is to give more time to its democracy, let its institutions evolve at their own pace.

If Pakistan can take care religious extremism without having secular laws then it won't matter either. India is yet another exemple which shows secular laws does not gurantee society free from religious extremists.

 

[Kompromat]

Pakcular, perhaps?

You know exactly what i am talking about. What we need a new social contract with our citizens. It has to resonate from Khayber to Karachi, Gwadar to Sialkot, Masjid to Imam bargah, Churches to Gurdwaras and Temples, without eroding our past narrative.

Any new social contract that we write for our citizens has to be egalitarian and must resonate with our past as if our new narrative isn't anchored in the past it would not give our citizens the confidence to ratify it.

 

[M. Sarmad]

You and i both know what the 'workable space' of us young Pakistanis is. Evolution NOT Revolution!

but then again , you will have to aboilish Mullahism first .... Concept of "Evolution" is "unislamic" after all ......

i heard that the balochs had a choice to stay with pakistan or become independent but they chose to stay with pakistan because it would be a united muslim country, do you think that by becoming secular would pakistan have more people asking for independence? like the pathans for pushtunistan ect.

Religion is not the force binding us together ... It is in fact dividing us further ... We are not KSA (All Wahabbi) or Iran (All Shia). ... We are 45-55 % Barelvi , 20-25 % Shia , 10-15 % Deoband 6 % Wahhabi , There is no single definition of Shariah that would be acceptable to all Pakistanis .... Granting max self autonomy to the provinces in a Secular Pakistan would resolve the sectarian issue as well . Sectarian sentiments , if not controlled , may very well make us another Iraq or Syria in near future ... And that gives us one more reason to abolish Mullah culture .. It is a matter of our survival now ..

 

[qamar1990]

I will not use the forum in coming days so that is why I am giving you this task , you can start this thread after some time , that is perfectly fine for me but I seriously think that this aspect has NEVER been discussed on any pakistani forum even though it is fundamental to Pakistan's security from its western border's perspective.

as you wish my friend.

 

[Contrarian]

First of all, apologies for interrupting. But I want to clear some facts for your knowledge.

Religious freedom is guaranteed by the Pakistani constitution.

No it is not.
Are you aware of laws in Pakistan on apostasy?
Do you know that in Pakistan you are liable to be punished by law for leaving Islam? The maximum extent is death.

Is this freedom of religion? And if not, then No, your Constitution does not guarantee Freedom of Religion.

India is also a secular country but that doesn't improve the state of its minorities.

While India's state of minorities may not be as good as in the West, it is certainly better than it would have been had India been a declared Dharmic State.

Similarly, if Pakistan declares itself as a Secular country, while in absolute terms the state of its minorities may not stack up to the Developed world levels, but it would be at far better levels than it would in an Islamic Pakistan.

 

[Kompromat]

what is your position on the blasphemy laws?

Okay. I respect that.
Though I feel you can benefit from outsider opinion as well on this issue - non troll, of course.

Blasphemy laws should be amended and as our public sentiments change, slowly morphed into 'hate speech laws'.

 

[Hyperion]

Agreed ~ Only if it's "our past".

You know exactly what i am talking about. What we need a new social contract with our citizens. It has to resonate from Khayber to Karachi, Gwadar to Sialkot, Masjid to Imam bargah, Churches to Gurdwaras and Temples, without eroding our past narrative.

Any new social contract that we write for our citizens has to be egalitarian and must resonate with our past as if our new narrative isn't anchored in OUR past it would not give our citizens the confidence to ratify it.

 

[A.Rafay]

Religion interferance in state matter is the root cause of all sectarian clashes and religious violence, it must be dealt with or we will divide further.