What will a secular pakistan look like?

[Hyperion]

Love this one...........

Blasphemy laws should be amended and as our public sentiments change, slowly morphed into 'hate speech laws'.

 

[qamar1990]

Okay. I respect that.
Though I feel you can benefit from outsider opinion as well on this issue - non troll, of course.

your opinions are welcomed but weren't you the guy who was going bananas because pakistan visited india?

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

but then again , you will have to aboilish Mullahism first .... Concept of "Evolution" is "unislamic" after all ......

Religion is not the force binding us together ... It is in fact dividing us further ... We are not KSA (All Wahabbi) or Iran (All Shia). ... We are 45-55 % Barelvi , 20-25 % Shia , 10-15 % Deoband 6 % Wahhabi , There is no single definition of Shariah that would be acceptable to all Pakistanis .... Granting max self autonomy to the provinces in a Secular Pakistan would resolve the sectarian issue as well . Sectarian sentiments , if not controlled , may very well make us another Iraq or Syria in near future ... And that gives us one more reason to abolish Mullah culture .. It is a matter of our survival now ..

What does max autonomy mean? Like FATA?

 

[Abingdonboy]

There are very few factors unifying Pakistan today and Islam is one of them. Turn Pakistan into a secular nation and the whole logic for it being a separate entity from India evaporates and from there the road to Pakistan disintegrating would be swift IMHO.

I find this whole thread pointless to be honest, is there a significant call within Pakistn from the people to turn Pakistan into a secular state? No. Is this something any senior elected official has ever even opened a debate on? No. In the backdrop of the sectarian fighting within Pakistan as we speak this thread is sheer folly.

 

[Kompromat]

@Azlan Haider | You are forgetting that religious or sectarian identity is not the only problem. KSA and Iran are irrelevant examples for us as they have a very strong nationalistic identity and they speak a single language. You take the current social contract away and you'd have a civil war, you wait for a few decades and work towards making the existing structure better while building Pakistaniat, soon enough you would find yourself able to phase out the current system. Pakistan is a new nation state that needs to grow into itself not outwards!

 

[qamar1990]

Religion interferance in state matter is the root cause of all sectarian clashes and religious violence, it must be dealt with or we will divide further.

yes true but at this stage, what do you think will happen if our country is declared secular?
it will be a civil war. we need to find a better way to do this.

 

[Contrarian]

Thank you and that is just the Point.

Whose Religion ?

What about the Shias, Ahmadis, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Parsis and other Minorities of Pakistan. Does our Government have NO OBLIGATION to those Pakistanis ???

So Pakistan was created to Propel the Faith of us Sunnis and to the peril of all other " Madhab" and Faith ???

The Job of the " GOVERNMENT " is to Provide Good " GOVERNANCE" and NOT to Promote a certain Faith.

It is this kind of muddled thinking and confusion that prevents the Government from doing their job.

The Government appears to be Paralyzed when an EXTREMIST SUNNI Group slaughters Hazara Shias or attacks an Ahmadiyya mosque or Christian Church and the Government watches helplessly and fails to take action against Murderous Thugs like Sipah e Sahaba.

Pakistan has no other choice but to Legislate Secularism.

Wow. I am very surprised - and happily so - on the clarity of thought and 'drill down approach' in your post.
I would have given you a positive rating if I could.

 

[A.Rafay]

yes true but at this stage, what do you think will happen if our country is declared secular?
it will be a civil war. we need to find a better way to do this.

Like i said, people may not adapt to this change, the better way to do is introduce secular law time to time and let people adapt to it.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

There are very few factors unifying Pakistan today and Islam is one of them. Turn Pakistan into a secular nation and the whole logic for it being a separate entity from India evaporates and from there the road to Pakistan disintegrating would be swift IMHO.

I find this whole thread pointless to be honest, is there a significant call within Pakistn from the people to turn Pakistan into a secular state? No. Is this something any senior elected official has ever even opened a debate on? No. In the backdrop of the sectarian fighting within Pakistan as we speak this thread is sheer folly.

There were 100 more reasons to separate from India then Islam alone.

 

[greatone]

You know exactly what i am talking about. What we need a new social contract with our citizens. It has to resonate from Khayber to Karachi, Gwadar to Sialkot, Masjid to Imam bargah, Churches to Gurdwaras and Temples, without eroding our past narrative.

Any new social contract that we write for our citizens has to be egalitarian and must resonate with our past as if our new narrative isn't anchored in the past it would not give our citizens the confidence to ratify it.

Don't you think Pakistan's past narrative is incompatible with an egalitarian society ?
I think Pakistani society needs to roll up its sleeves, admit that mistakes were made, mistakes that lead to the shit-hole Pakistan currently finds itself and vow to reform.
If you try to shoe horn a half assed solution to fit with the past narrative(TNT) you will remain stuck in the present quagmire.
Weren't you trying to do the same since 50s ?

 

[Progressive1]

Its socio economics that binds a country not any religion, Pakistan will remain united/is united as provinces combine to give each other benefits that are vital for achieve optimum standard of living(ports to those landlocked, fertile plains to barren, man power to those deficient, common river as lifeline etc etc)

 

[Kompromat]

Agreed ~ Only if it's "our past".

It will be - we have plentiful of our own history to build a new narrative on. The system i want is not the system based on a bogus concept of equality but a system based on fairness, a state that gives every citizen a fair fighting chance for making it big.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

yes true but at this stage, what do you think will happen if our country is declared secular?
it will be a civil war. we need to find a better way to do this.

It will happen over time, start by removing hate material against minorties in school books. This process was started by Musharaf and we are now getting the results somewhat IMO.

 

[qamar1990]

There are very few factors unifying Pakistan today and Islam is one of them. Turn Pakistan into a secular nation and the whole logic for it being a separate entity from India evaporates and from there the road to Pakistan disintegrating would be swift IMHO.

islam will not evaporate by turn pakistan secular my friend, muslims will still be the rulers and law makers of this country and muslims will decide the fate of the country, but with a secular government which won't discriminate against its own citizens.

I find this whole thread pointless to be honest, is there a significant call within Pakistn from the people to turn Pakistan into a secular state? No. Is this something any senior elected official has ever even opened a debate on? No. In the backdrop of the sectarian fighting within Pakistan as we speak this thread is sheer folly.

there are dozens of members on this forum who want a secular pakistan
including myself.
@Hyperion @Shabaz Sharif @Azlan Haider @FaujHistorian @forcetrip
@Secur @Imran Khan @A.Rafay thats just few of the top of my head.

 

[M. Sarmad]

i don't want to turn this thread in that direction as these debates have been had here several times and always at loggerheads. lets just say it was not absolute separation of state and religion as some atheists here like to portray.

Here is what Iqbal wanted :

Dr. Mohammad Iqbal was an admirer of the Turkish experience. In his well-known lectures on Reconstruction of Religious Thoughts in Islam, Dr. Iqbal says :
"If the Renaissance of Islam is a fact, and I believe it is a fact, we too one day, like Turks, will have to re-evaluate our intellectual inheritance."

While defending the Republic of Turkey and its actions, Allama said in his famous lecture on
‟The Principle of Movement in the Structure of Islam‟:

“They therefore reject old ideas about functions of state and religion and accentuate the separation of church and state. The structure of Islam as a religio-political system no doubt does permit such a view.”


So if we become a modern secular state like Turkey , we will be making our founding fathers proud , and fulfilling their dreams .... not "being left with the moral dilemma of abandoning the vision of our fathers" , as you said