What stops USA from occupying Pakistan?

[regular]

Mister,

You have no clue what hurt means----. You don't know what to say and then the word 'traitor' comes out automatically----the moment my young pakistanis get ticked off----it is the standard statement they bring ou----you ought to be ashamed of calling someone a traitor in a knee jerk reaction.

I am a concerned and loving citizen of pakistan and the u s----I am concenred and I give you ways to correct yourselves----. My objections and comments are not just sarcasm and insults----I also give you solutions thru historical references or of how a just system needs to run.

That reason alone does not make me a traitor----but it makes you blind of your short comings.

I guess they got U...man, U can't runn nowhere, U gotta clean ureself now.........

There are dirty games being played in Central Asia, the Middle East & North Africa right now, with the rise of the AQAP, AQIM, Al-Shabaab respectively. Countries that had no Al-Qaeda presence (Afghanistan, Pakistan included) have become hotbeds of Al-Qaeda terrorism, namely Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Libya etc. Al-Qaeda is becoming dominant in the Middle East, North Africa right now. If Pakistan is complicit in harboring Al-Qaeda groups, we can say all the intelligence agencies in these countries also harbor such groups. There is only one constant here, we know who they are, anyone that has a little bit of insight on world affairs knows how the actions of Al-Qaeda advance the imperialistic interests of certain 'ambitious' nations. But I guess the rest of the world suffering from Pan-Islamic terrorism is wrong, & the US, which played a role in the creation of Al-Qaeda & similar groups is right, with noble intentions.

Yes! exactly we are facing double game from these so called evil devloped crusaderz from the West.......

 

[LeGenD]

The lesson of misadventure learned in Afghanistan.

Much difficult terrain, much larger population and more heavily armed.

These are baseless assumptions. No country can offer resistance like Afghanistan. Its population is battle-hardened and terrain is extremely difficult.

Fact is that Pakistan is not a threat to US regardless of any issues between the two nations. And their is no vital benefit for USA to take such a drastic measure against Pakistan.

In Pakistan a Phd graduate who gets a chance to kill the occupation force will take it. The sense of opposing occupation is very high in Pakistan

Sir, this is misplaced assumption.

You are assuming that entire populace of Pakistan is trained to fight? Absolutely not. Just look at the Karachi killings. Common people are powerless to stop these thugs and you are talking about US army.

Pakistan is not a nation of battle-hardened people like Afghans and Iraqi. Yes! A certain percentage of populace is armed and will fight.

And the next house? and the one after that? Short of committing mass genocide, no occupation force can hold its ground in Pakistan

Read about Fallujah then.

70% of infrastructure of Fallujah was destroyed; US was so determined and resistance was so heavy. In the end, US took Fallujah after killing thousands of resistance fighters.

Armies are created to fight. Civilians are not armies in disguise.

"How can you defeat an enemy who looks into the barrel of your gun and sees paradise."
-Russian General regarding Chechan mujahideen
Like i said muslims have a different view on the REAL jihad.(not the extremist type jihad)

And in the end, Russia captured Chechnya. Get realistic.

 

[53fd]

You are assuming that entire populace of Pakistan is trained to fight? Absolutely not. Just look at the Karachi killings. Common people are powerless to stop these thugs and you are talking about US army.

What about the common Afghan civilians that are getting killed in Afghanistan everyday in night raids without a fight. The fact is, Pakistanis will put up a fight even more intense than Afghanistan is putting up right now, there are divided opinions within Afghanistan; but there are no divided opinions in Pakistan when it comes to the US. Plus, it has about 5 times the population of Afghanistan, & the population possesses a lot more arms. No one is saying Pakistan will or should go for a direct confrontation with the US, but if the US cannot succeed in Afghanistan, it surely won't succeed in Pakistan.

 

[LeGenD]

What about the common Afghan civilians that are getting killed in Afghanistan everyday in night raids without a fight.

I am not discussing the morality of conflicts here.

The fact is, Pakistanis will put up a fight even more intense than Afghanistan is putting up right now, there are divided opinions within Afghanistan; but there are no divided opinions in Pakistan when it comes to the US. Plus, it has about 5 times the population of Afghanistan, & the population possesses a lot more arms. No one is saying Pakistan will or should go for a direct confrontation with the US, but if the US cannot succeed in Afghanistan, it surely won't succeed in Pakistan.

I disagree.

The populace of Afghanistan is battle-hardened in comparison to that of Pakistan. Repeated occupations have made Afghans tough in general.

The situation of Pakistan is vastly different in comparison.

Yes! a chunk of populace is well-armed and trained to fight. This chunk will put resistance.

However, a chunk of populace in Pakistan is urbanized. This populace is accustomed to luxuries. Expect nothing significant from this chunk.

And then there is a chunk of populace which is in poverty. This chunk is also useless because it is accustomed to slavery.

Get the picture?

 

[53fd]

I disagree.

The populace of Afghanistan is battle-hardened in comparison to that of Pakistan. Repeated occupations have made Afghans tough in general.

The people that are resisting the US are in the thousands. Taliban: 40,000-50,000. Haqqani Network & affiliated networks: 15,000-25,000. The US has failed to defeat these thousands. You honestly think they'd do better in Pakistan?? The rest of the Afghan nation (which has a population close to 40 million people) is not fighting the US either, most of them are under US occupation, & undergo gross HR violations without putting up a fight. They are facing poverty levels worse than Pakistan, & keep falling deeper in the abyss of sufferings. You can regurgitate all your baseless opinions, but the statistical proofs show that the most of the Afghans are nothing what you make them to be.

 

[karan.1970]

and how Pakistan won all wars with India except 1971

 

[LeGenD]

One last thing they i agree would have extreme weaponary and be no match for our forces but i promise you it would without doubt be a massive bloody nose for them and put their ever straining finances on the verge of collapse - lets face it a few men in pyjamas have had them finally retreating out of Afghanistan so what would happen in Pakistan?

I appreciate patriotism but this is way too unrealistic assumption.

1. US economy has not collapsed from so many wars in the past and neither it will do so due to this hypothetical conflict. Fighting overseas does not cripples economy. Can you shutdown Wall Street? Can you shutdown US corporations? Can you shutdown US military industy?

2. Afghanistan is a country of entirely different kind of challenges then Pakistan. Apples and Oranges comparison here.

 

[53fd]

I appreciate patriotism but this is way too unrealistic assumption.

1. US economy has not collapsed from so many wars in the past and neither it will do so due to this hypothetical conflict. Fighting overseas does not cripples economy. Can you shutdown Wall Street? Can you shutdown US corporations? Can you shutdown US military industy?

You clearly have no idea about the current state of the US economy. It is as crippled as it can be.

 

[dott]

You clearly have no idea about the current state of the US economy. It is as crippled as it can be.

do u even understand economics. fighing a war does not hinder economic growth. infact it boosts industry creating 1000s of jobs.
entire world economy is doing bad but if u using the word crippled for us then what will u say for pakistan?

 

[LeGenD]

The people that are resisting the US are in the thousands. Taliban: 40,000-50,000. Haqqani Network & affiliated networks: 15,000-25,000. The US has failed to defeat these thousands. You honestly think they'd do better in Pakistan??

By this assumption? US should have failed to counter Iraqi resistance too?

What is true for Taliban is not neccessarily applicable to Pakistan. First go and take a good look at Afghan territory. Taliban is composed of extremely battle-hardened fighters and its fighters hide in mountainous regions in Afghanistan and also Pakistan. Also, many Taliban fighters die too during fire-fights with ISAF forces. Taliban survives due to support from a chunk of battle-hardened populace of Afghanistan and funding from some foreign elements.

The rest of the Afghan nation (which has a population close to 40 million people) is not fighting the US either, most of them are under US occupation, & undergo gross HR violations without putting up a fight. They are facing poverty levels worse than Pakistan, & keep falling deeper in the abyss of sufferings. You can regurgitate all your baseless opinions, but the statistical proofs show that the most of the Afghans are nothing what you make them to be.

My opinions are not baseless. I am researcher and understand demographics much better then you.

You clearly have no idea about the current state of the US economy. It is as crippled as it can be.

Really?

 

[King Solomon]

It is obvious that it is pakistan's nuclear weapons which stops the US from occupying it. Even after that, if US wishes so it can occupy pakistan but it does not do so because Pakistan can cause significant damage to US interests around it with its sufficiently sophisticated weapon arsenal.

If the US DOES intend to occupy pakistan, it will never start the battle alone. It will take help from the Indian army so that Pakistan is effectively sandwiched from both sides.

Most people here are assuming that the population of 100+ million that pakistan has wil mean US cannot do so. This is definitely not the case. See now, you have a corrupt government composed of a few people yet 180 million people are powerless in front of them.

 

[53fd]

By this assumption? US should have failed to counter Iraqi resistance too?

You cannot say that the US succeeded in Iraq either.

What is true for Taliban is not neccessarily applicable to Pakistan. First go and take a good look at Afghan territory. Taliban is composed of extremely battle-hardened fighters and they hide in mountainous regions in Afghanistan and also Pakistan. Also, many Taliban fighters die too. Taliban survives due to support from battle-hardened populace of Afghanistan and funding from some foreign elements.

The insurgent groups in Pakistan hide in the FATA as well, if you've been to Parachinar, & other parts of FATA (I have), these are mountainous terrain adjacent to Afghanistan. While you talk about geographical demographics, you should see that the Taliban are also spread into areas in Afghanistan which do not have rough mountainous terrain.

My opinions are not baseless. I am researcher and understand demographics much better then you.

You probably haven't been to Afghanistan. I have. I have friends & family from different parts of Afghanistan. Your opinions are baseless, because you clearly fail to comprehend that, most of Afghan opinion is divided, majority of the Afghan population (99.8% of the Afghan population) is not an active part of the insurgency that the Taliban & other groups are, most of them have resigned to their fate, & do not put up much of a fight. While you look at the geographical demographics, you discount is population demographics, & while Afghans are exhausted by the constant fightings, Pakistanis are not. There are no divided opinions in Pakistan about the US, the population is much greater, many more arms, & other aspects as well.

 

[53fd]

Really?

You clearly have no understanding of economics if you think GDP growth rate indicates the health of an economy. Pumping in stimulus packages can artificially temporarily boost the economy, but it's a band aid, & it comes off with time.

What is the current situation of the US economy? Neither spending more nor taxing less will help the US pay its bills. The IMF has said that “closing the US fiscal gap requires a permanent annual fiscal adjustment equal to about 14 percent of US GDP.”

Closing the US fiscal gap from the revenue side requires doubling of personal-income, corporate and federal taxes. The US needs to run a huge surplus now and for many years to come to pay for the spending that is scheduled. Then there are unofficial liabilities as well that have to be accounted.

 

[LeGenD]

You cannot say that the US succeeded in Iraq either.

You are sadly mistaken. Iraq is a success story for US.

Had US failed to contain Iraqi resistance and would have been pushed out forcibly from the country then you would have a point. In contrast, US not just contained Iraqi resistance but also had graceful exit from the country after installing a friendly regime.

Failed assumption.

The insurgent groups in Pakistan hide in the FATA as well, if you've been to Parachinar, & other parts of FATA (I have), these are mountainous terrain adjacent to Afghanistan.

Agreed with this part. The pashtun populace of Pakistan can fight most effectively.

However, enormous part of territory in Pakistan is not mountainous. Resistance in this part will be weakest.

While you talk about geographical demographics, you should see that the Taliban are also spread into areas in Afghanistan which do not have rough mountainous terrain.

However, Taliban seldom fight openly in these regions. They use explosives and suicide bombing tactics in most of the cases in such regions. In the end, civilians suffer the most.

You probably haven't been to Afghanistan. I have. I have friends & family from different parts of Afghanistan. Your opinions are baseless, because you clearly fail to comprehend that, most of Afghan opinion is divided, majority of the Afghan population (99.8% of the Afghan population) is not an active part of the insurgency that the Taliban & other groups are, most of them have resigned to their fate, & do not put up much of a fight.

Now you have started to contradict yourself. If nothing serious is happening in Afghanistan then why hype Taliban's inadequacy?

While you look at the geographical demographics, you discount is population demographics, & while Afghans are exhausted by the constant fightings, Pakistanis are not.

A large segment of Pakistani populace is exhausted by tough life and aftermath of natural disasters. You think that people who have suffered from Earthquakes and Floods can fight? And the people who are accustomed to luxurious lifestyle can fight? Think again.

There are no divided opinions in Pakistan about the US,

Anti-state elements exist in Pakistan too. And lot of people only care about themselves now. Pakistani populace is more materialistic then it ever has been. Do not let media fool you. If Pakistani populace was so capable, it would have solved all major domestic issues by now.

the population is much greater,

Useless argument. US can bring more firepower then it did in Afghanistan and Iraq.

many more arms, & other aspects as well.

Not promising.

 

[53fd]

You are sadly mistaken. Iraq is a success story for US.

I don't think so, considering Al-Qaeda terrorism has increased, & the US was driven out of the country & has virtually no military presence there today. And the Maliki regime is not a friendly regime, it is in the cahoots with Iran, they are considered Iranian proxies.

However, Taliban seldom fight openly in these regions. They use explosives and suicide bombing tactics in most of the cases in such regions. In the end, civilians suffer the most.

They use pretty much the same techniques in rougher terrains as well. And if they use explosives, IEDs; they are still challenging their enemies, & still resisting them. So your argument is moot.

Now you have started to contradict yourself. If nothing serious is happening in Afghanistan then why hype Taliban's inadequacy?

Who has hyped Taliban's inadequacy? They are pretty adequate, because even with a low % of Afghans actively participating in the insurgency, they still have a good amount of indirect support from many of their fellow countrymen.

A large segment of Pakistani populace is exhausted by tough life and aftermath of natural disasters. You think that people who have suffered from Earthquakes and Floods can fight? And the people who are accustomed to luxurious lifestyle can fight? Think again.

When the Pakistani people feel they have nothing to lose, they will fight. Look at the aftermath of the Salala checkpost incident a few months ago, most Pakistanis were out on the streets ready to fight. Most of the Afghan people were never ready to fight in the aftermath of the 9/11 incident.

Anti-state elements exist in Pakistan too. And lot of people only care about themselves now. Pakistani populace is more materialistic then it ever has been. Do not let media fool you. If Pakistani populace was so capable, it would have solved all major domestic issues by now.

You seem to be assuming that anti-state elements only exist in Pakistan. And the rest of your post is clearly hypothetical with no substance in it. All over the place.

Useless argument. US can bring more firepower then it did in Afghanistan and Iraq.

How? Who will accommodate them? If they want to start a full, direct war with Pakistan; who will accommodate them & their supply routes/bases? Afghanistan is a landlocked country, India with its rising Islamic extremism/militancy all over the country, as well as Pakistan's nukes would not indulge in such foolhardy activities. Russia will not let arms be passed through its territory to be used against Pakistan, & will not support an invasion of Pakistan; just like it vetoed an invasion of Syria.