What role could PAF have played in the Kargil war??

[Stephen Cohen]

That was something Mush had not bargained for. He expected a surreptitious incursion with the intent of altering the LOC which was not to be.

General Musharraf did not expect or Anticipate Many things

1 India using AIR force and Placing or shifting
the Indian Navy just OUTSIDE Karachi

2 India using Heavy artilerry

3 The massive mobilisation by the Infantry divisons


( Basically Pakistan was Not aware of Indian Army 's REAL strength --They were going by
very outdated estimates They came to know about Indian Army's
Real strength only during the 2002 stand off when we mobilised the entire Army )

4 India retaliated in a Very responsible manner WITHOUT crossing the LOC
And IMMEDIATELY became a RESPONSIBLE Nuclear state

The Global opinion turned AGAINST Pakistan for starting a Reckless war

Hence USA -- which was Then a Pakistani ALLY - turned against Pakistan

 

[MastanKhan]

Since PAF was not involved in the Kargil war, and that put our soldiers in very grave danger since they didn't have the Airsupport and IAF was bombing our solider's positions with BVR missiles and causing heavy casualties.



So, in a hypothetical scenario if PAF was actually involved in that war (and taken into confidence during the planning/execution stages and assigned a role), what role could they have played?? Could they have provided the Pak soliders with solid air cover or not? I doubt they could have engaged themselves in air to air combat with IAF planes (which remember were BVR enabled) and PAF planes was not. But still limiting the PAF role to basically nothing and letting them see our positions getting bombed was a suicide move . They should've been assigned some role in that war.



So what role the PAF could have played considering the fact that they lacked the BVR technology ?? was IAF having the BVR tech. the deciding factor in PAF not getting involved or what?



Also could PAF having the BVR tech. have changed the fate of that war??

Hi,

It was due to the failure of the paf to get the right aircraft that when the war started---they were a no show.

It is the same way now---if a conflict starts---paf has not much to show---.

Now if the paf was well equipped---that would have been a different story---.

 

[ZedZeeshan]

Really how come you read so much about it rookie ...you just started on Feb 23, 2016 and I don't think since then there has a lot of discussion about it.

Beta Mind your language....i have been in this forum since 2008...got banned 3 times....i know of this stuff before u'r mom teached you the manner to wipe your ***..I just gave you a warning shop if you want more try me..

 

[Blue Marlin]

airstrikes and holding off the mk2

 

[war&peace]

Beta Mind your language....i have been in this forum since 2008...got banned 3 times....i know of this stuff before u'r mom teached you the manner to wipe your ***..I just gave you a warning shop if you want more try me..

That explains why you got banned so many times. I guess 4th time is not so far either unless you change your attitude.

 

[ayesha.a]

Musharaf was seriously a dumb*** to go ahead with the plan, without informing the civilian govt. PAF chief , PN chief etc etc, in any other country he'd have got court martialed except for Pakistan where he became the President of the country soon after war (where he was solely responsible for putting the lives of Pak soldiers on the line for basically nothing)..

He was going to be punished by the civilian govt, but he had an army at his command, and the govt didn't, so... You know what happened to the civilian govt.

It's not like Pakistanis made him president as a reward for the Kargil blunder - he seized the title with military force.

 

[!eon]

- I didn't say Pakistan is stuck in stone age, I said that it can do better but needs a pivot in terms of its policies vis-a-vis her neighbours.

- Refugees must return back to Afghanistan asap and we thank the people of Pakistan for being great hosts. Remember we have differences over policy matters, and nothing against the Pakistani public.

/Peace

Reality is very harsh my dear. This state (Pakistan) was never accepted by mentality of akhand bharat, and still they think Pakistan is their land. Captured Naval officer in Baluchistan, Kulbhushan Yadav is just one example.
You did criticize on Kashmir policy of Pakistan. I hope you know history of Kashmir and how is Kashmir part of India today.
Although it's not possible, but imagine if India succeeds in her ideology of akhand bhrat, then who will be the next ? ....
...... Afghanistan

 

[third eye]

Musharaf was seriously a dumb*** to go ahead with the plan, without informing the civilian govt. PAF chief , PN chief etc etc, in any other country he'd have got court martialed except for Pakistan where he became the President of the country soon after war (where he was solely responsible for putting the lives of Pak soldiers on the line for basically nothing)..


I think if Kargil was to happen, it should've been years ago prolly in the Zia era (when Siachin dispute was hot) with proper planning and tactics involving all units .

Mush did not become the President - he made himself the President & there is a difference between the two,

Next the suggestion of Kargil happening in 80s too is fraught with problems ( for Pakistan).

Siachen was virgin unoccupied land which the Indians took by getting there first.

The only time the LOC could have been altered is during the wars of 65 / 71. At any other time the retaliation would be swift and not localised as Pak has forever felt it would be.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

General Musharraf did not expect or Anticipate Many things

1 India using AIR force and Placing or shifting
the Indian Navy just OUTSIDE Karachi

2 India using Heavy artilerry

3 The massive mobilisation by the Infantry divisons


( Basically Pakistan was Not aware of Indian Army 's REAL strength --They were going by
very outdated estimates They came to know about Indian Army's
Real strength only during the 2002 stand off when we mobilised the entire Army )

4 India retaliated in a Very responsible manner WITHOUT crossing the LOC
And IMMEDIATELY became a RESPONSIBLE Nuclear state

The Global opinion turned AGAINST Pakistan for starting a Reckless war

Hence USA -- which was Then a Pakistani ALLY - turned against Pakistan

India had to use Air Force and heavy artillary because they had no choice. when one is on the top it is easy for him to shoot down. If you have to shoot to the top from bottom and at greater range then you have to use heavier equipment.

Air Force was brought in to stop the supplies from reaching these positions. It was assumed that Pakistan Army was supplying them and hence some aircraft entered Pakistan Air Space. After this they were warned that they should not do this again but the very next day they did it again and they also fired on the Pakistani positions hence they were shot down. After this the Airforce did not violate Pakistani Airspace. More over there were instances where PAF f-16 did look on M2K's of IAF but never shot them because they knew that the aircraft would fall on the Indian side of the border hence it would indicate PAF was the intruder.

The War was started because the Indians had a habit of abandoning their posts during winter. No military does that...

 

[A-Team]

Reality is very harsh my dear. This state (Pakistan) was never accepted by mentality of akhand bharat, and still they think Pakistan is their land. Captured Naval officer in Baluchistan, Kulbhushan Yadav is just one example.
You did criticize on Kashmir policy of Pakistan. I hope you know history of Kashmir and how is Kashmir part of India today.
Although it's not possible, but imagine if India succeeds in her ideology of akhand bhrat, then who will be the next ? ....
...... Afghanistan

Hoping for a day where countries in our region can learn to accept each other and learn to live with each other.

/Peac

 

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

It was due to the failure of the paf to get the right aircraft that when the war started---they were a no show.

It is the same way now---if a conflict starts---paf has not much to show---.

Now if the paf was well equipped---that would have been a different story---.

Pak in the past and even now has limited resources so all Pak immigrants from West/USA should send funds for PAF.
(Sorry for childish remarks but they are not different from yours as it is explained many times that PAF if got involved about a year back could stockpile the required spares for F16s to be fully prepared for war but it was not happened which was unfortunate but Kargil war was a valiant effort not backed by our so called Muslim brothers and foreign friends. Please don't put blame of choosing improper aircraft on PAF as decisions are made by ministry of defense not by PAF)

In he end Pak learned many lessons and have impacted deeply in Pak defense doctrine.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

India had to use Air Force and heavy artillary because they had no choice. when one is on the top it is easy for him to shoot down. If you have to shoot to the top from bottom and at greater range then you have to use heavier equipment.

Air Force was brought in to stop the supplies from reaching these positions. It was assumed that Pakistan Army was supplying them and hence some aircraft entered Pakistan Air Space. After this they were warned that they should not do this again but the very next day they did it again and they also fired on the Pakistani positions hence they were shot down. After this the Airforce did not violate Pakistani Airspace. More over there were instances where PAF f-16 did look on M2K's of IAF but never shot them because they knew that the aircraft would fall on the Indian side of the border hence it would indicate PAF was the intruder.

The War was started because the Indians had a habit of abandoning their posts during winter. No military does that...

IAF did suffer some losses BUT After IAF brought in MIG 29s and Mirage 2000
PAF became a Helpless spectator watching the proceedings

IAF jets -- Mirage 2000 and Mig 29s crossed into the LOC -- from 5 Miles to 13 Miles
But were Not challenged by PAF
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read this

https://in.rbth.com/articles/2013/01/16/migs_over_kargil_how_the_fulcrum_buzzed_the_falcons_21659

 

[ayesha.a]

The War was started because the Indians had a habit of abandoning their posts during winter. No military does that...

Actually both armies had that "habit", and that was a tacit understanding between the two, that Pakistan deliberately violated. You can read that on any neutral source, and even Pakistani ones.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/kargil-99.htm

There had existed a sort of "gentleman's agreement" between India and Pakistan that the armies of either side will not occupy posts from the 15 September to 15th April of each year. This had been the case since 1977, but in 1999 this agreement was cast aside by the Pakistani army in hopes of trying to gain the upper hand in Kashmir and plunging the Indian subcontinent in brief and limited war and raising the spectre of nuclear war.

As events unfolded, Zoji La opened early on account of the unseasonal melting of snows and the Indian Army's reaction was far swifter than Pakistan had expected. Further, Pakistan also did not expect the reaction of the Indian Army to be as vigorous as has been demonstrated manifested.

The Indian army's reaction was far swifter and far stronger than Pakistan had calculated.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The War was started because the Indians had a habit of abandoning their posts during winter. No military does that...

Both the Armies observed that practice of abandoning the Posts
in winter

But Kargil was something else -- It was supposed to be revenge for Siachen

But it turned to be a bigger disaster

From 1984 to 1989 when we were fighting in Siachen
-- NO country in this world knew about it

But every country saw what Happened in Kargil

 

[MastanKhan]

Pak in the past and even now has limited resources so all Pak immigrants from West/USA should send funds for PAF.
(Sorry for childish remarks but they are not different from yours as it is explained many times that PAF if got involved about a year back could stockpile the required spares for F16s to be fully prepared for war but it was not happened which was unfortunate but Kargil war was a valiant effort not backed by our so called Muslim brothers and foreign friends. Please don't put blame of choosing improper aircraft on PAF as decisions are made by ministry of defense not by PAF)

In he end Pak learned many lessons and have impacted deeply in Pak defense doctrine.

Sir,

Once you learn that remarks are remarks and there is nothing childish about any remark---then you will find new horizons opening up for you.

It is a surprise that in my 34 years in the U S---I have not heard that term from whites---blacks or Latinos.