What Pakistan Knew About Bin Laden

[Solomon2]

Shared myth it may be, but myth busting requires a dispersion of education .. at least to a certain degree. Pakistan lacks that..

Arrrggggghhhh! Oscar, you're not stupid, but you seem to be stuck in the same rut as your countrymen. You don't wait around for somebody else to take the initiative you want, or hope somebody is going to bribe you to do it; you go and do it yourself.

Think of it this way, a state founded on the basis of common religion.. say Israel(since you know much about it)

The first and most basic misconception Pakistanis have of Israel - and I know its shared from bottom to top - is that Israel is built on the basis of a common religion. It isn't. Israel is built on the basis of the Jewish people. No religious tests, but those of religious and genetic heritage: you're a Jew if your mother was Jewish. Conversion to Judaism isn't done by reciting a few words, but intense study of Judaism and intimacy with the Jewish people - something like citizenship tests for the U.S., but more involved. Hence, the values of a democratic citizenry come relatively easily to the Jews.

But it wasn't always this way. Two thousand years ago we were a rather more bigoted people. Read Josephus sometime. I think we learned our key lessons then and since. At the end, the terrorists were running things. As the rabbis put it, the Jews were dispersed from the land of Israel because they succumbed to blind hatred. Should you let what happened to the Jews 2,000 years ago happen to Pakistan, too?

but WITHOUT a good education system and low literacy rate.. how successful would it be?

You have to counter it. You, not somebody else. And maybe you'll find a few friends to help, and they'll find a few friends, and the movement will grow...of course, this being Pakistan, people will look how to make corrupt money at it. Many will turn away from your cause for not offering such opportunities. But do you really want the ones who are in it for the money? In the West, many once-worthy NGOs have been taken over by love-of-money leadership, especially once their original purpose ran its course. Under the influence of corrupt funding they mutated into horrible parodies of their original mission or died entirely. (The Helsinki Group may be the best example of the latter: link).

 

[Irfan Baloch]

how desperate one can get to make a "compelling case" against Pakistan

proof number one (it is the thought that counts)
1. Gen Zia ud Din Butt "thought" that Musharraf housed Bin Laden in Abbotabad. (note that Gen Zia was ousted well before 9/11 during 99 coup. and his personal grudge is enough to warrant his anti Musharraf thoughts as a proof

Proof number two, Guilty by Association
2. since Bin Laden couldnt not have remained in Abbotabad house he "had" to meet Hazif Saeed and Mullah Omar and since both are ISI assets that means that ISI knew about Bin Laden since they "must" have known Bin Laden too.

Proof number three, OBL Help Desk
3. the third "compelling" proof is about the existence of a special desk setup to cater for Bin Laden's dietary needs like providing him with hens and goats and a middle ranking officer (of unknown rank, origin) was supposed to run it and was not answerable to his seniors. although his secretive desk was so independent and powerful that even other sections of ISI didnt know who were actually fighting Taliban and AL Qaeda but that help desk operative found it necessary to let the news reporter know about his existence.

Proof number four Karzai's second Job
Karzai and his intelligence was responsible for keeping track of all threats on Benazir Bhutto and warn her of the impeding attempts on her life. Author decided to keep us guessing how did that have any relevance to OBL raid.

Proof number five Pasha's Phone call or one about him (you have all 3 life lines, phone a friend, 50/50 or ask the audience)
yet another compelling proof is that after the raid the Americans "intercepted" a phone call of Pasha OR one about him.
which suggested he knew about Bin Ladens presence in Abbotabad.

wow genius.. even me and my wife knew after the raid that Bin Laden was killed in a Navy Seals attack I didnt need to be a head of ISI to make that conclusion it was all over the news. lucky that my phone call or one about me was not intercepted by Americans talking about Binlanden shitty place in Abbotabad.

@Oscar @Cheetah786 @Secur @waz @notorious_eagle @Aeronaut

 

[batmannow]

how desperate one can get to make a "compelling case" against Pakistan

proof number one (it is the thought that counts)
1. Gen Zia ud Din Butt "thought" that Musharraf housed Bin Laden in Abbotabad. (note that Gen Zia was ousted well before 9/11 during 99 coup. and his personal grudge is enough to warrant his anti Musharraf thoughts as a proof

Proof number two, Guilty by Association
2. since Bin Laden couldnt not have remained in Abbotabad house he "had" to meet Hazif Saeed and Mullah Omar and since both are ISI assets that means that ISI knew about Bin Laden since they "must" have known Bin Laden too.

Proof number three, OBL Help Desk
3. the third "compelling" proof is about the existence of a special desk setup to cater for Bin Laden's dietary needs like providing him with hens and goats and a middle ranking officer (of unknown rank, origin) was supposed to run it and was not answerable to his seniors. although his secretive desk was so independent and powerful that even other sections of ISI didnt know who were actually fighting Taliban and AL Qaeda but that help desk operative found it necessary to let the news reporter know about his existence.

Proof number four Karzai's second Job
Karzai and his intelligence was responsible for keeping track of all threats on Benazir Bhutto and warn her of the impeding attempts on her life. Author decided to keep us guessing how did that have any relevance to OBL raid.

Proof number five Pasha's Phone call or one about him (you have all 3 life lines, phone a friend, 50/50 or ask the audience)
yet another compelling proof is that after the raid the Americans "intercepted" a phone call of Pasha OR one about him.
which suggested he knew about Bin Ladens presence in Abbotabad.

wow genius.. even me and my wife knew after the raid that Bin Laden was killed in a Navy Seals attack I didnt need to be a head of ISI to make that conclusion it was all over the news. lucky that my phone call or one about me was not intercepted by Americans talking about Binlanden shitty place in Abbotabad.

@Oscar @Cheetah786 @Secur @waz @notorious_eagle @Aeronaut

sir,
but i feel, she had some truth without any strong proves!
or never canbe proven!
like special desk, & untold protection of OBL, with full knowledge of bush admin, +CIA his hunt & that abottabad ops, were just stagged drama, & few secret swiss accounts filled, OBAMA got re-elected.
musharaf played well to his , & pakistan,s ecomomic advantage!
president bush,told mushraf long before that then next CIA setup , will not going to see him last & thier secret about OBL, will be eliminated!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

sir,
but i feel, she had some truth without any strong proves!
or never canbe proven!

that I never deny but I laugh at the selective recollection of events by some Western journalists while remembering Bin Laden
how conveniently they omit the treatment of Bin Laden in a US military base in UAE .. (while never tiring from mentioning PMA's proximity to his house) also how he and Mullah Omar were actually allowed to escape from Tora Bora while NATO forces attacked the area. and as Micheal Schauer (former CIA officer/ head of Bin Laden unit) menioned that they had 9 opportunities to take out Bin Laden but Clinton didnt go ahead with it (maybe at that time he found it more impotent to penetrate Monica rather than Afghan airspace)

 

[batmannow]

that I never deny but I laugh at the selective recollection of events by some Western journalists while remembering Bin Laden
how conveniently they omit the treatment of Bin Laden in a US military base in UAE .. (while never tiring from mentioning PMA's proximity to his house) also how he and Mullah Omar were actually allowed to escape from Tora Bora while NATO forces attacked the area. and as Micheal Schauer (former CIA officer/ head of Bin Laden unit) menioned that they had 9 opportunities to take out Bin Laden but Clinton didnt go ahead with it (maybe at that time he found it more impotent to penetrate Monica rather than Afghan airspace)

sir, you are million % right, but above that there are hidden towers too?
i guss, i was on to something that time in uniform, thats why i had the knowledge about whole set up?
OBL,s location was allways known to CIA, they just played it up, & didnt gave the time to kiyani & zardari uncle, although some secret accounts been filled?lolzz
all i dont like that, wby cant these westrn journalists ask thier CIA, MI6 the same questions, instead trying to give themselves medal of bravry?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

all i dont like that, wby cant these westrn journalists ask thier CIA, MI6 the same questions, instead trying to give themselves medal of bravry?

they got laws setup to prevent such questioning and criticism and people can be arrested for speaking up under patriot act and what not.

only in Pakistan the media and judiciary decided to side with Terrorists and gets no mention in such "reports" and the organisation that has actually fought the terrorists killed , captured and lost its men during the process gets all the criticism based on its past relations (again forgetting to mention CIA was also partner in that).

another thing... mentioning of Hafiz Saeed and LeT is to please the Indians although that stooge and his organisation has no relevance to American war on terror on Al Qaeda and taliban.

 

[acid rain]

they got laws setup to prevent such questioning and criticism and people can be arrested for speaking up under patriot act and what not.

only in Pakistan the media and judiciary decided to side with Terrorists and gets no mention in such "reports" and the organisation that has actually fought the terrorists killed , captured and lost its men during the process gets all the criticism based on its past relations (again forgetting to mention CIA was also partner in that).

another thing... mentioning of Hafiz Saeed and LeT is to please the Indians although that stooge and his organisation has no relevance to American war on terror on Al Qaeda and taliban.

Sir, you got that wrong..

LET has a very strong base, with a huge recruitment base with more than 5000 recruits any given time and directly supported by Pak administration. LET is also directly linked with the AQ core and a leading terrorist network in the global scenario. It acts as a backbone of operations as well with deep contacts with your administration, religious, political, intelligence and defense agencies.

The 10 million bounty on him is not for namesake...He figures amongst the top terrorists in the world and his group has lakhs of followers and thousands of recruits.

You are right as far as him not being relevant to WOT, but his relevance to the jihad movement is very relevant as a back channel.

 

[batmannow]

Sir, you got that wrong..

LET has a very strong base, with a huge recruitment base with more than 5000 recruits any given time and directly supported by Pak administration. LET is also directly linked with the AQ core and a leading terrorist network in the global scenario. It acts as a backbone of operations as well with deep contacts with your administration, religious, political, intelligence and defense agencies.

The 10 million bounty on him is not for namesake...He figures amongst the top terrorists in the world and his group has lakhs of followers and thousands of recruits.

You are right as far as him not being relevant to WOT, but his relevance to the jihad movement is very relevant as a back channel.

plz dont bring indian media prapoganda as the base of your argument?
you dont know what you might be talking about!

 

[TeesraIndiotHunter]

O.K guys...

I have interviewed an un-named CIA official with highly-secret information..and he has told me..anonymously.....that character of Bin Laden was actually a Japanese robot that was about to be used in a **** movie..but then one other unnamed CIA guy mistakenly charged the robot with military programing and everything went downhill.

So guys, now you have it.

I am thinking of writing an essay called "What CIA knew about the anime Japanese Robot" ...

 

[OrionHunter]

Disturbing. What would happen to a Pakistani reporter if they wrote this piece? Can't expel him or her, right? Would the reporter simply be killed instead?

Of course! Look what happened the doctor who helped America nail Osama. Pakistan arrested Afridi and sentenced him to 33 years in jail!!!

That really sucked, but it exposed the establishment's utter frustration at how things turned out, especially by a Pakistani who went against its core interest of hiding Osama from the world. Instead of being applauded and conferred the highest award for helping find Osama, the poor sod was incarcerated for 33 years!!

That action of sentencing Afridi really let the cat out of the bag!

 

[TeesraIndiotHunter]

Of course! Look what happened the doctor who helped America nail Osama. Pakistan arrested Afridi and sentenced him to 33 years in jail!!!

That really sucked, but it exposed the establishment's utter frustration at how things turned out, especially by a Pakistani who went against its core interest of hiding Osama from the world. Instead of being applauded and conferred the highest award for helping find Osama, the poor sod was incarcerated for 33 years!!

That action of sentencing Afridi really let the cat out of the bag!

Frustration? LMAO! If we are to go by the article, Pakistan "constructed" the whole war to trap West inside Afghanistan successfully, and as it draws down, Pakistan is but all set to achieve "complete victory" in Afghanistan by dominating it once again.

If anything, Pakistanis must be chillin' right now. But then again, the whole article is nothing but mythical rants of a Westerner.

 

[shuntmaster]

Whats the big surprise. Everyone and their aunts knew that pakistan was sheltering OBL...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Sir, you got that wrong..

LET has a very strong base, with a huge recruitment base with more than 5000 recruits any given time and directly supported by Pak administration. LET is also directly linked with the AQ core .

as far as bounty is concerned, that was a blunder he says that he has frequently met the US diplomat staff in his office which is open for every one he gives interviews to international media as well. I really marvel at the brain power of someone who came up with the idea of putting a bounty on him. his relevance has been blown out of proportion he is at best a troll causing traffic jams and talking nonsense from so called Pakistan defence council

he has his links to Al Qaeda as much as you and I have with king kong

 

[waz]

I suppose the question has to also be asked why the CIA, which has one of the biggest footprints in Pakistan, didn't reveal his location. Until the "right" time.

Anyhow I don't see the point of debating this. The US stated themselves that the armed services or government at the time was not involved in hiding him.

 

[illusion8]

that I never deny but I laugh at the selective recollection of events by some Western journalists while remembering Bin Laden
how conveniently they omit the treatment of Bin Laden in a US military base in UAE .. (while never tiring from mentioning PMA's proximity to his house) also how he and Mullah Omar were actually allowed to escape from Tora Bora while NATO forces attacked the area. and as Micheal Schauer (former CIA officer/ head of Bin Laden unit) menioned that they had 9 opportunities to take out Bin Laden but Clinton didnt go ahead with it (maybe at that time he found it more impotent to penetrate Monica rather than Afghan airspace)

One must admire how less informed western press weaves a non factual story into something that entices it's reader to believe in what they intend to propagate...but this article is different than others - the writer of this piece actually spent close to one and a half decades of her life in Pakistan and has come up with her findings. We know that once anyone spends any extended period of time over something then they do tend to get to the bottom of it.

From the author - Bin Laden's escape has been tied in with Akhtar and how he informed OBL of the impending attack and helped him into moving inside Pakistan - Akhtar in turn is/was closely associated and handled by ISI. It is most likely that through Akhtar and through the aid of the Taliban leadership, OBL would have been moved to various locations before settling him down in Abbottabad. The people in the ISI or military intelligence who were handling Akhtar and the Taliban would be the people in the know of OBL's movements.

What the author misses out is giving an explanation as to why Akhtar wanted an attack on the GHQ.

He consulted OBL and asked for assistance in it, and OBL refuses - but then the attack happens as discussed - the author again fails to explain who were behind it if wasn't Akhtar and what was his status with ISI before and after the GHQ attack.

It's a nice piece - much better than the pieces that are based on suspicions.