What is the problem with Iran and JF-17?

[Adam_Khan]

I hereby rest my case.

On Feb. 1, 2013, Iran unveiled its indigenous fighter jet named “Qaher 313”.

The prototype of the Q-313 (or F-313 according to the stencils applied to the aircraft), was presented to President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and publicly displayed as part of the Ten-Day Dawn ceremonies held in Iran to celebrate the 1979’s victory of the Islamic Revolution.

In the previous days, the Iranian Defense Minister Brigadier General Ahmad Vahidi had said, “The aircraft will be different from the other fighter jets Iran has already made.”



Indeed, based on the first photographs released by the FARS News Agency, the new stealthy jet has a really peculiar design. It features hard edges and those distinctive edges and angle of the U.S. F-22 and the twin tail shape much similar to that of the F-35 Lightning II.



The Q-313 has large, seemingly fixed canards, and little wings whose external section is canted downward.

The canopy material is at least odd (based on its transparency, it looks like plexiglass or something like that).




The cockpit seems to be basic (a bit too much for a modern plane – note the lack of wirings behind the front panel and the presence of few instruments, some of those similar to those equipping small private planes…).



The nose section is so small almost no radar could fit in it.



The air intakes are extremely small (they remind those of current drones/unmanned combat aerial vehicles) whereas the engine section lacks any kind of nozzle: engine afterburners could melt the entire jet.



And, above all, the aircraft is way to small.

Look at the following image showing an Iranian officer sitting on the ejection seat in the cockpit.



It looks like this pilot is in a miniature plane.



Summing up: the shape is interesting with some innovative features but the Q-313 displayed on Feb. 1, 2013, seems to be nothing more than a large mock up model (not properly sized to accomodate a real pilot….).

Update

There is a video allegedly showing the Q-313 in the air. Here it is.


Even if it is not the first flight of the aircraft as some of The Aviationist readers say, the way the depicted plane flies is suspect. It seems a radio-controlled scale model more than a modern fighter jet.

Furthermore, as someone pointed out: if the Qaher 313 actually flew, most probably Tehran would release footage of its takeoff and landing.

Click here to read the article on Business Insider about this and other (more

I wonder why?!!

I mean, at the end of the day - its still (just) an F-5. Like I said in the earlier post, had you done the same with the F-14, maybe then it may have raised more than a few eyebrows.

But adding a vertical stabilizer, is like me fitting my car with a Spoiler. It still isn't gonna improve d!ck of a difference in performance.

Dear we are all lying,I just don't know which brand of hash these guys smoke,honestly I wana get high like these guys as well.

 

[Hack-Hook]

F.14D was a carrier borne fighter and the service life of a carrier borne fighter is less because of the amount of stress a fighter goes through during carrier landings, did you guys have a carrier.
Iran bought 79 tomcats out which a maximum 20 are in service,484 AIM.54 Phoenix missiles were bought out of which around 280-300 were delivered and around 200 were used the Iran Iraq war so how do you expect to fight hundreds of upgraded advanced fighters in the Persian Gulf with such a small number of Phoenix missiles and outdated AIM.7E.

For once instead of growing balls think with your minds,so much false bravado means nothing. Your airforce is outdated and part of the reason is that IRGC is spending all the money in fighting wars in Yemen and Syria.




Did you produce a plane or just added a vertical stabilizer and called it a home grown fighter,not sure why you guys are so keen on making the world laugh at you?

well I smell something burned . there is a complete thread about difference of kowsar and f-5 here go and read it .
also i assure you we don't have a single one of our original AIM-54 we used those in Iran - Iraq war and in our training. what ever you see is the ones we built later.

 

[Trailer23]

Dear we are all lying,I just don't know which brand of hash these guys smoke,honestly I wana get high like these guys as well.

"You cut the ears off a Mule don't make him a Horse."
-Ethan Hawke (Magnificent Seven)

 

[Adam_Khan]

well I smell something burned . there is a complete thread about difference of kowsar and f-5 here go and read it .
also i assure you we don't have a single one of our original AIM-54 we used those in Iran - Iraq war and in our training. what ever you see is the ones we built later.

Ok you have hundreds of AIM.54 clones but only around 20 Tomcats in service and half of them don't have serviceable AWG.9 sets,now please fight the whole of Gulf with these aircraft!

As said by someone before me,What difference would an extra vertical stabilizer make when the radar,engine and most of avionics are the same. Kindly enlighten me.

 

[Trailer23]

...but only around 20 Tomcats in service and half of them don't have serviceable AWG.9 sets,now please fight the whole of Gulf with these aircraft!

The whole Gulf...

It'll take 1/2 a squadron of UAEAF's F-16 Block 60 (Desert Falcons) to wipe 'em out of the sky. It'll be like shooting ducks in a barrel.

Those retro Tomcats have as much of a chance against the F-16's as I have of making Natalie Portman my wife.

The sexy Beast up close at the DxB Air Show

 

[Hack-Hook]

I wonder why?!!

I mean, at the end of the day - its still (just) an F-5. Like I said in the earlier post, had you done the same with the F-14, maybe then it may have raised more than a few eyebrows.

But adding a vertical stabilizer, is like me fitting my car with a Spoiler. It still isn't gonna improve d!ck of a difference in performance.

you guys and extra stabilizer fetish.
for thousands time kowsar don't have extra stabilizer. what it have is the advanced radar and flight control system . the radar that allow it become aware of what happen around it , unlike f-5 and allow it to use something beside short range heat seeking missile , the systems that allow it to be used for percision strike
this is inside kowsar

this is inside f-5e

this is kowsar Radar

this is f-5 radar

and unlike the other f-5 driviate we showed this for Kowsar

by the way i can't see any extra stabilizer for the plane ,were you guys get that

Ok you have hundreds of AIM.54 clones but only around 20 Tomcats in service and half of them don't have serviceable AWG.9 sets,now please fight the whole of Gulf with these aircraft!

As said by someone before me,What difference would an extra vertical stabilizer make when the radar,engine and most of avionics are the same. Kindly enlighten me.

and your source for your claim? (If I say it I'm sure I'll get an infarction)
here is your enlightment.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-is-the-problem-with-iran-and-jf-17.661992/page-7#post-12248818

 

[Trailer23]

Okay @Hack-Hook , no vertical stabilizer.

But please, don't make this your primary jet. Even with the fancy gadgets in the cockpit..., its still an old jet-tech.

Its like a MiG-21 that goes through an upgrade & becomes a 'Bison'. Didn't work out too well for the Indians.

 

[Mithridates]

what you should've done over 20-25 Years back was attempt to Reverse Engineer the F-14's.

you can't reverse engineer everything.

F.14D was a carrier borne fighter and the service life of a carrier borne fighter is less because of the amount of stress a fighter goes through during carrier landings, did you guys have a carrier.

f-14s were all carrier based not just D version. f-14s had shorter service life because of more moving part and complexity.

how do you expect to fight hundreds of upgraded advanced fighters in the Persian Gulf with such a small number of Phoenix missiles and outdated AIM.7E.

or airborne mersad-2 missile

 

[Adam_Khan]

you guys and extra stabilizer fetish.
for thousands time kowsar don't have extra stabilizer. what it have is the advanced radar and flight control system . the radar that allow it become aware of what happen around it , unlike f-5 and allow it to use something beside short range heat seeking missile , the systems that allow it to be used for percision strike
this is inside kowsar

this is inside f-5e

this is kowsar Radar

this is f-5 radar

and unlike the other f-5 driviate we showed this for Kowsar

by the way i can't see any extra stabilizer for the plane ,were you guys get that


and your source for your claim? (If I say it I'm sure I'll get an infarction)
here is your enlightment.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/what-is-the-problem-with-iran-and-jf-17.661992/page-7#post-12248818

Improved cockpit instrumentation great.
Overhauled aircraft great.
Different upgraded radar not so sure.
Engine is the same,field performance the same. Even if the radar is improved will it be able to carry any BVR weapons or PGM's other than the old AGM.65 A and B's that Iran has in it's inventory,the answer is no so sadly these aircraft are still limited to carry the old stock of AIM.9J's and AIM.9P's that Iran has so here is th improvement.

you can't reverse engineer everything.

f-14s were all carrier based not just D version. f-14s had shorter service life because of more moving part and complexity.

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or airborne mersad-2 missile

F.14 was based as a carrier based interceptor and I hope you know any aircraft landing on the carrier goes through tremendous wear and tear so that's part of the reason,other than that the AIM.54 and AWG.9 sets are both outdated and have no role whatsoever in modern aerial warfare.

The best thing of all that can prevent Iran from getting into trouble is to stop poking it's nose everywhere, sooner or later someone would have had enough and that would be the end of it.

you can't reverse engineer everything.

f-14s were all carrier based not just D version. f-14s had shorter service life because of more moving part and complexity.

View attachment 624884
View attachment 624885
View attachment 624886
or airborne mersad-2 missile

F.14 was based as a carrier based interceptor and I hope you know any aircraft landing on the carrier goes through tremendous wear and tear so that's part of the reason,other than that the AIM.54 and AWG.9 sets are both outdated and have no role whatsoever in modern aerial warfare.

The best thing of all that can prevent Iran from getting into trouble is to stop poking it's nose everywhere, sooner or later someone would have had enough and that would be the end of it.

 

[Mithridates]

around 200 were used the Iran Iraq war

how did you get that number??

Did you produce a plane or just added a vertical stabilizer and called it a home grown fighter,not sure why you guys are so keen on making the world laugh at you?

For once instead of growing balls think with your minds,so much false bravado means nothing. Your airforce is outdated and part of the reason is that IRGC is spending all the money in fighting wars in Yemen and Sy

what IRGC is doing in syria is more important than 200 f-35s for us.

I wonder why?!!

I mean, at the end of the day - its still (just) an F-5. Like I said in the earlier post, had you done the same with the F-14, maybe then it may have raised more than a few eyebrows.

But adding a vertical stabilizer, is like me fitting my car with a Spoiler. It still isn't gonna improve d!ck of a difference in performance.

still it's their product, Russians reacted when we did simple modifications on our mig-29s...

 

[nahtanbob]

Why steal, when Bangladesh could hand it to 'em on a silver platter.

No, not exactly. Sri Lanka is & has always been a neutral party, but in my opinion they have better relations with Pakistan than India. [but that's my opinion].

It is not hard to steal in Sri Lanka given the number of Indian origin people there. You couldn't distinguish between Indian and Sri Lankan

 

[Adam_Khan]

how did you get that number??

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View attachment 624890

what IRGC is doing in syria is more important than 200 f-35s for us.

Please read Iran Iraq war in the air and Irani Tomcats in service,both are written by Tom Cooper who has researched the war extensively and then come and talk with me.

Also have a bit of shame and stop posting pictures of your toy stealth fighter,we are not novices like yourself here who know nothing.

Am done arguing. Cheers

 

[Mithridates]

F.14 was based as a carrier based interceptor and I hope you know any aircraft landing on the carrier goes through tremendous wear and tear so that's part of the reason,other than that the AIM.54 and AWG.9 sets are both outdated and have no role whatsoever in modern aerial warfare.

no just you know.
if tomcat is outdated then f-16c and f-15c are also outdated.

The best thing of all that can prevent Iran from getting into trouble is to stop poking it's nose everywhere, sooner or later someone would have had enough and that would be the end of it.

 

[ARMalik]

I cannot for the life of me understand why Pakistan has not already sold Iran a couple dozen JF-17's.

Really you cannot understand what is so obvious - where have you been dude? Jokes aside, there are some very clear reason why Pakistan will NEVER sell JF-17 to Iran.

1- To appease Saudis, UAE, and other anti-Gulf countries, etc.
2- Pakistan does not have good relationship with Iran - Full Stop. Why would you sell your weapons to such a country?
3- Strategically, it is not in Pakistan's interest to see its weapons being used against countries it has good relations with.

So all in All, NO CHANCE.

 

[Mithridates]

Please read Iran Iraq war in the air and Irani Tomcats in service,both are written by Tom Cooper who has researched the war extensively and then come and talk with me.

i am an Iranian i grew up reading those.

Also have a bit of shame and stop posting pictures of your toy stealth fighter,we are not novices like yourself here who know nothing.

Am done arguing. Cheers