What is SAP? and what certification to start with for a newbie in the field?

[Pakistani_Athiest]

If you compare the avg incomes then IT is 3rd under Lawyers and Doctors. You must remember that even with CS at the core, its the consultants that do the dirty work and get the business rolling. Currently with the recession on CS guys are not doing very well because they are normally the first ones to go as they get paid on an hourly basis and are expensive to maintain. Basically you only need programmer in the design stage of the development process. You have system analyst and DB administrators to look after the system after that. CS personnel are involved with later stages but their number decrease exponentially.

For salary considerations, CS and IT are clubbed in most statistics. And CS guys aren't easy to get rid of (I don't know what you are talking about). CS guys aren't even employed by most companies. A CS guy works on a security algorithm, kernel for a new operating system, engine for a new game etc. IT guys works on Banking Applications, Insurance applications etc. Obviously, job security is greater in the former. Most CS guys DON'T work as consultants, it's the IT guys that work as consultants. CS guys are considered assets and are kept by companies like Microsoft and Google. I am not that good with my CS, but while Wellmark was firing FTEs and Consultants doing their IT jobs, they did not fire one guy from my department, we work on UX, DM etc.

I am talking of 25-28 year old people. Dude, IT does not involve thinking. I started in IT. There is not much of problem solving. And the people in CS get paid WAY WAY more (i don't know wtf you are talking about). Makers of algorithms get patents that earn millions+. You don't have many serious patents in IT. (I laugh at IT patents)

About IT vs CS and which is harder? I can put an IT guy in my gf's project, and that guy will probably die in shame (due to his inability to find a solution). For instance, I can give you the current algorithm and ask you to improvise. If you think this is easy, take something as simple as Sudoku, understand the current algo and work on improvising that. In companies like Blizzard, you could be asked to make certain aspects of the game less graphics oriented and more processor oriented. Do you think that's easy?

On the other hand most "enterprise IT" work is about figuring out how to get things done. Understanding classes, methods, processes, tools etc. Working on CRM solution or a banking application is a joke when compared with balancing solutions, crunch computing, np non-complete problems etc.

I'll argue further on this when you can either

a) give me algo for a chess engine
b) give me an algo that solves sudoku for SURE.

Simple enough problems? Now, get to work =P

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

PMP is not overrated bro, you are dead wrong there, In Canada PMP or PM is a very sought after certification and can get you a very good job in United States or Canada.

That's the sad thing. A certification that is so easy to pass (took me 3 days), shouldn't be overrated. On the other hand, the security algorithm I worked on took me more than 4-5 months of HECTIC problem solving.

 

[Mrityunjay Rai]

That's the sad thing. A certification that is so easy to pass (took me 3 days), shouldn't be overrated. On the other hand, the security algorithm I worked on took me more than 4-5 months of HECTIC problem solving.

First of all PMP is not a technical certificate so 3 days story is aplicable here.Further PMP is useless without a good exp. And what is the saga here about CS and IT. Can some one post the subjects that are different in CS and IT because here in India both are almost same(IT is somewhat tough because of electronics included )

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

First of all PMP is not a technical certificate so 3 days story is aplicable here.Further PMP is useless without a good exp. And what is the saga here about CS and IT. Can some one post the subjects that are different in CS and IT because here in India both are almost same(IT is somewhat tough because of electronics included )

1) I've more than required PMP experience. I've all those crappy silly Java certifications as well. I've CCNA as well for shits and gags.

2) IT: IT is Information Technology. Writing Applications etc. We give you the database, we give you the programming language, use those tools and design a banking solution for us. Use Salesforce to get Sales information. Design an ETL methodology using informatica to export stuff from database A to B. Use .NET to develop _____. That is IT. Website development, banking application, flash games, ipod apps etc.

3) CS: Computer Science. Problem solving. Designing Kerberos. Working on adding new features to an existant programming language. Developing a new graphics engine. Developing a new compiler. Developing a new parsing solution.

In IT, the solutions are kinda pre-defined. It's about applying features to solve 'day to day' problems. CS is about figuring out solutions to not-so-well-defined problems.

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

First of all PMP is not a technical certificate so 3 days story is aplicable here.Further PMP is useless without a good exp. And what is the saga here about CS and IT. Can some one post the subjects that are different in CS and IT because here in India both are almost same(IT is somewhat tough because of electronics included )

You can call yourself a CS guy when you can

a) give me algo for a chess engine
b) give me an algo that solves sudoku for SURE.
c) OR ANY OTHER SUCH PROBLEM

Or atleast THINK in that direction (trying to solve).

 

[Mrityunjay Rai]

You can call yourself a CS guy when you can




Or atleast THINK in that direction (trying to solve).

Ok so CS is all about making new where IT is to use them.Thanks for info but here in India both are almost same.what is the extra subject that leads the CS in that way.And also we study lots of electronics in IT that CS dose not.

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

Ok so CS is all about making new where IT is to use them.Thanks for info but here in India both are almost same.what is the extra subject that leads the CS in that way.And also we study lots of electronics in IT that CS dose not.

CS Subjects : Lot of Math, Calculus, Linear Algebra, Modern Algebra, Models of Computation, Security Protocols, Compiler Design, Structured Programming, Operating Systems, Networking, Kernel, Algorithms. Not many colleges in India/Pakistan teach REAL CS. The good news is that you can learn it on your own. We have a lot of Desis/Pakistanis/Indians working for our company, but in my team only 2 Indians and one Pakistani. One of them did his Bachelors from ITI-Mumbai and Masters from MIT. The Pakistani dude did both his Bachelors and Masters from Columbia. I did my Masters from Caltech. As you can see, only peeps from very reputable institutions.

But we have a lady that did not even do Bachelors, she learned everything on her own.

---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:16 PM ----------

Ok so CS is all about making new where IT is to use them.Thanks for info but here in India both are almost same.what is the extra subject that leads the CS in that way.And also we study lots of electronics in IT that CS dose not.

Neither IT nor CS really require Elec. SAP does not require you to know SSD or Chip Design or even transistor =D

 

[Kinetic]

Ok guys so i am very good with computer hardware & software.
I completed A+ for fun a while ago but did not take the test .

I am being told that there is a lot of opportunity in SAP.
My concern is that having no prior background ( work related)
in IT etc , Is it worth spending the $$$ of training?

What are different levels of certifications & which one can one study
to get the foot in the door?

Your input is much appreciated but pls keep it simple!

Thanks!

SAP is good but as a fresher it is difficult to get a job if you are certified than also. First you have to select which module you can go. There are multiple modules in SAP like SD, MM, FICO, HR etc. But all these required prior experience in respected areas at least for two years. If you are experienced than its does not matter whether you are SAP certified or not.

If you have technical background than there is a chance as a fresher, that is ABAP. It is a development language that helps other modules to be developed, modify and being SOAP. SAP Netweaver developed for Business Suite uses this language. You better go to SAP education website for more information.

If you want to be certified do the certification from SAP education partners only, otherwise it will be waste of money. I think other members can help.

 

[Mrityunjay Rai]

1) I've more than required PMP experience. I've all those crappy silly Java certifications as well. I've CCNA as well for shits and gags.

2) IT: IT is Information Technology. Writing Applications etc. We give you the database, we give you the programming language, use those tools and design a banking solution for us. Use Salesforce to get Sales information. Design an ETL methodology using informatica to export stuff from database A to B. Use .NET to develop _____. That is IT. Website development, banking application, flash games, ipod apps etc.

3) CS: Computer Science. Problem solving. Designing Kerberos. Working on adding new features to an existant programming language. Developing a new graphics engine. Developing a new compiler. Developing a new parsing solution.

In IT, the solutions are kinda pre-defined. It's about applying features to solve 'day to day' problems. CS is about figuring out solutions to not-so-well-defined problems.

So you mean to say that Creating new algorithm is way much tough than applying it in day to day life.........
Hm.... Let me give an example you must have heared about spanning tree algo.(its very old and inavented to solve some tree problmes- correct me if i am wrong).Now we uses same algo to creat a loop free topology in LAN switches. There have been a lot of efforts to make it practicle to fit in picture. Like converting the hello messeges between swithes in such a way that itt can be fed in to algo as input.
So i dont think that it is easier than creating new one.
Feel free to disagree

 

[Kinetic]

Hey, can anyone tell me, how much math is involved in computer science??

because i suck at math. and i am really worried, if i will be able to get at least bachelor in computer science.


Also is Computer science same as Computer forensics???


Since i want to work for FBI/CIA, How can i get into that??

Math is one of the basis of CSE. If you are not good in Math than please don't go for CSE. CSE is all about logic, problem solving, design and service oriented application development that requires a lot of Maths. I have studied six dedicated Math subjects namely Engineering Math-1,2,3,4, Graph Theory and Combinatorics, Discrete Math Structure as well as other subjects those have lots of Maths like Finite Automata, Logic Design, System Simulations and Modeling.

There are little similarities between technical CSE and Computer forensics. You can do a course on CF.

 

[Mrityunjay Rai]

Neither IT nor CS really require Elec. SAP does not require you to know SSD or Chip Design or even transistor

SAP is very specific it might not require the electronics but when you are going to write programms for embeded systems or for microcontrollers or wireless communication devices you will need a lot of underlaying electronics stuff and IT guys can outperform the CS guys anyday in these conditions.

 

[Mrityunjay Rai]

Math is one of the basis of CSE. If you are not good in Math than please don't go for CSE. CSE is all about logic, problem solving, design and service oriented application development that requires a lot of Maths. I have studied six dedicated Math subjects namely Engineering Math-1,2,3,4, Graph Theory and Combinatorics, Discrete Math Structure as well as other subjects those have lots of Maths like Finite Automata, Logic Design, System Simulations and Modeling.
.

What is Engineering Math 3 and 4 never heared about that. Have you done your degree from out of India
I have gone through IIT Kanpur's CS course sylabus and dose not find any thing very advance in tearm of mathematics but yes CS guys have 50 perc more math than us (IT guys)

 

[DesiGuy]

You have a better chance to get hired with experience and no certification rather than certification with no experience.

well, it's not the case here in US. indeed, you have to have a lot of experience, but companies will not hire you, if you just told them that you know this, that, and blah and blah.

So here, you got to have degree which is even much more important than the certificate itself.

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

So you mean to say that Creating new algorithm is way much tough than applying it in day to day life.........
Hm.... Let me give an example you must have heared about spanning tree algo.(its very old and inavented to solve some tree problmes- correct me if i am wrong).Now we uses same algo to creat a loop free topology in LAN switches. There have been a lot of efforts to make it practicle to fit in picture. Like converting the hello messeges between swithes in such a way that itt can be fed in to algo as input.
So i dont think that it is easier than creating new one.
Feel free to disagree

That's not IT. That's CS.

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

Math is one of the basis of CSE. If you are not good in Math than please don't go for CSE. CSE is all about logic, problem solving, design and service oriented application development that requires a lot of Maths. I have studied six dedicated Math subjects namely Engineering Math-1,2,3,4, Graph Theory and Combinatorics, Discrete Math Structure as well as other subjects those have lots of Maths like Finite Automata, Logic Design, System Simulations and Modeling.

There are little similarities between technical CSE and Computer forensics. You can do a course on CF.

He is absolutely right.