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What if PAF had no Thunder?

Theres nothing wrong with this post



For PAF is a great way to modernise to a large BVR fleet and to upgrade in the future to a even more potent low cost MR fighter.

But the poster is right you will not win a war with this plane not TODAY and definitely not in THE NEAR future.

The THUNDERS would need support of true bigger more potent Multi role platforms be it

F16/52
J10
Dassult Rafale/Typhoon

I have intentionaly left out J31 has it will not avaiable for 1.5 decades yet. for export..

Those 3 planes listed ARE GAME changers. real multiplers which strike fear into the opponent

The THUNDERS specs at this moment do not acheive this notion.


1. How do you know that the JF-17 will always be beaten by aircraft like F-16/J-10/Rafale?

The block 3 version will have AESA radar and a ramjet-powered BVRAAM missile. When working in combination with AWACs it will be an effective fighter.

It may not be as good as a Rafale but any Rafale pilot should feel nervous going up against Block-3 JF-17. Remember Chinese missiles and avionics technology is their strongest area.

2. J-31 is specifically designed for export and will be available to Pakistan, China's closes ally, around 2020 when India starts readying to put the FGFA into service.
 
Theres nothing wrong with this post

in an ideal world the JF-17 isn't the plane any fighter jock would want to go to war with but it is certainly better than what it replaces (Mirage/F-7).

For PAF is a great way to modernise to a large BVR fleet and to upgrade in the future to a even more potent low cost MR fighter.

But the poster is right you will not win a war with this plane not TODAY and definitely not in THE NEAR future.

The THUNDERS would need support of true bigger more potent Multi role platforms be it

F16/52
J10
Dassult Rafale/Typhoon

I have intentionaly left out J31 has it will not avaiable for 1.5 decades yet. for export..

Those 3 planes listed ARE GAME changers. real multiplers which strike fear into the opponent

The THUNDERS specs at this moment do not acheive this notion.
1. How do you know that the JF-17 will always be beaten by aircraft like F-16/J-10/Rafale?

The block 3 version will have AESA radar and a ramjet-powered BVRAAM missile. When working in combination with AWACs it will be an effective fighter.

It may not be as good as a Rafale but any Rafale pilot should feel nervous going up against Block-3 JF-17. Remember Chinese missiles and avionics technology is their strongest area.

2. J-31 is specifically designed for export and will be available to Pakistan, China's closes ally, around 2020 when India starts readying to put the FGFA into service.

Firstly just because j31 may have entered service and be available for countries does not automatically mean paf wil get this. Afteral both the j10/f16 and typhoon/Rafael have been purchased. J31 wil come at tremendous cost....maybe beyond your budget....

As for jf17 block 3 taking on block 52./euro canards I.ll stick to the hi end composite built euro planes over a budget all metal chinease lightweight plane...
 
While there are several fallacies with that design in regards to all aspect stealth.. it will have a RCS perhaps slightly lower than that of the Eurofighter. That does not take the South Koreans out of the capability picture. They have fairly good avionics systems(of which some are in the JF-17) and a well built manufacturing base.
So I suggest you get out of your jingoistic rant and start posting some sense. The Chinese aviation industry operates on a different scale and design concept as the South Koreans do. That being said the South koreans licence manufacture the F-16 and are authorized for software modifications to the system.
Moreover, the PAF preferred Korean ECM systems to those offered by China(who later wanted to copy the tech) as they offered better threat protection.
So do we have korean ecm systems on board any P.a.F. airCrafTs ?
 
Storm Force, post: 4951577, member: 19519"]Theres nothing wrong with this post



For PAF is a great way to modernise to a large BVR fleet and to upgrade in the future to a even more potent low cost MR fighter.

But the poster is right you will not win a war with this plane not TODAY and definitely not in THE NEAR future.

The THUNDERS would need support of true bigger more potent Multi role platforms be it

F16/52
J10
Dassult Rafale/Typhoon

I have intentionaly left out J31 has it will not avaiable for 1.5 decades yet. for export..

Those 3 planes listed ARE GAME changers. real multiplers which strike fear into the opponent

The THUNDERS specs at this moment do not acheive this notion.[/quote]
I would be interested to know your logic behind your assumption. As to winning a war just with the aerial platform; the US could not do it and neither could India
Please understand the logic behind the JFT before commenting.As a matter of fact you cant win a war with India even if all your inventory was16s bl52s.I will exppain once I have heard your answer.ARAZ
 
More F-16s, J-10 and upgrading F-7s until China come up with logical replacment for F-7s i.e. JF-17.
 
Then Pakistan would not have had this Single seat Multi-role Day/Night all weather light weight Fighter for 15 to 20 million $ a piece, and can call it its own.

JF-17+Lightweight+Multirole+Combat+Fighter++2.jpg


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China%2BCM-102%2Bair%2Bto%2Bsurface%2BARM%2Banti%2Bradiation%2Bmissile%2BZhuHai%2BAir%2BShow,%2Brange%2B100km%2B7m%2Bfc-1%2BJF-17%2Bthunder%2Bpakistan%2Bj-10abcds%2Bjh-10%2Bfighter%2Bjet%2B%284%29.jpg



JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong Multirole Combat Aircraft, Pakistan
JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong Multirole Combat Aircraft - Airforce Technology


The JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong is a single engine, lightweight, multipurpose combat aircraft that was developed jointly by Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC) of China and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) of Pakistan.

The medium-sized aircraft is built mainly to meet the needs of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and will replace its current ageing fleet of Nanchang A-5, Chengdu F-7P / PG and Dassault Mirage III / V fighter aircraft.

The maiden flight of the JF-17 was completed in August 2003 and entered service in March 2007. The aircraft is designated as Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17 by Pakistan and as Fighter China-1 (FC-1) by China. The JF-17 / FC-1 is expected to cost around $15m-20m.

The No.26 Squadron Black Spiders is the first JF-17 Squadron of the PAF, introduced in February 2010. It has been launched with 14 JF-17 aircraft.

The JF-17 was showcased at the Farnborough Air Show 2010. Two aircraft of the No.26 Black Spiders Squadron were also displayed at the show.

JF-17 Thunder orders and deliveries
PAF ordered eight JF-17 aircraft. The first two were delivered on 12 March 2007 and the remaining six were delivered in 2008.

PAF will procure 42 JF-17 fighters as part of an $800m contract signed in March 2009. It plans to procure 250 aircraft at a cost of $3bn-5bn.

The first two aircraft were delivered in 2009. The first Pakistani-built JF-17 was delivered to PAF in November 2009. Approximately 200 JF-17 aircraft will be procured by 2015.

FC-1 design
China signed an agreement with Pakistan in May 2011 to supply 50 additional JF-17 thunder jets to replace the ageing MiG-21 and Northrop F-5 Tiger fighter aircraft.

Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute designed the FC-1. The airframe is a semi-monocoque structure and is constructed principally of aluminium alloys, steel and titanium. The aircraft comprises lateral air intakes and electronic equipment pod diffuser supersonic inlets.

Development
"The JF-17 was built mainly to meet the needs of the PAF and will replace its ageing fleet."
Development of the JF-17 began with the origination of Super-7 in 1986 under a $500m joint Chengdu-Grumman development project, but the project was cancelled for financial and political reasons.

Chengdu continued the development of Super-7 in 1991 under the Fighter China project. Pakistan and China signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) in 1995 to build the aircraft. In 1998, the countries signed a Letter of Intent and the contract was awarded in June 1999.

To speed up development, the avionics and radar systems design of the aircraft was separated from the airframes. The preliminary design was completed in 2001 and the detailed structure in 2002. Funding for the programme was provided by China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and Pakistan, each owning a 50% stake.

Development of the first prototype began in September 2002 and production was completed in May 2003. Design flaws of the JF-17 were identified after its first flight in 2003. After a significant redesign the fourth prototype production was completed in April 2006. The sixth prototype first flew in September 2006.

Sub-assemblies of the JF-17 started in Pakistan on 22 January 2008 and final assembly began in June 2009. PAC is producing 15 aircraft per year.

Development of a two-seat combat / trainer version of the JF-17 was announced in February 2012.

JF-17 cockpit
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The JF-17 is equipped with a glass cockpit and a specially designed canopy. The cockpit features three multifunction displays (MFD), head-up display (HUD), 32-bit weapon and mission management computer (WMMC) and a hands-on throttle and stick.

An up-front control panel (UFCP) is fitted between the MFD and HUD. The Chinese HUD is designed and developed to overwhelm the fog-up error that frequently occurs in humid, sub-tropical and tropical zones.

An acrylic canopy covers the aircraft's cockpit and provides clear all-round visibility.

Avionics
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The avionics suite includes electronic flight instrumentation system (EFIS), flight control system (FCS), health and usage monitoring system (HUMS), automatic test equipment, UHF / VHF communication radios, simpatico data links, inertial navigation system (INS) and an identification friend-or-foe (IFF) transponder.

Armaments
The JF-17 / FC-1 is armed with GSh-23 dual-barrel 23mm cannon or GSh-30 dual-30mm cannon. The aircraft has seven hardpoints of which four are located under the wings, one under the fuselage and two mounted on the wingtips. It can carry up to 3,700kg payload.

"The PAF will procure 42 JF-17 fighters as part of an $800m contract ."
The aircraft is fitted with PL-12 or SD-10 radar homing medium-range air-to-air missile (MRAAM), unguided bombs, satellite guided bombs, gravity bombs, anti-ship missiles, anti-radiation missiles, rocket launchers and a laser designator pod.

The JF-17 / FC-1 is equipped with AIM-9L / M, PL-5E, PL-9C short range air-to-air missiles on its wingtip hardpoints.

Countermeasures
The JF-17 / FC-1 is equipped with a defensive aids system (DAS), which includes a radar warning system (RWS), missile approach and warning system (MAWS), a countermeasure dispensing system and a self-protection radar jamming pod. The RWS collects the direction and proximity of the enemy radar and transmits the data to the pilot.

The MAWS comprises various optical sensors that detect and display the rocket missiles approaching the aircraft on MFDs. The decoy flares and chaff incorporated in the countermeasure dispensing system prevents the enemy's missile from tracking the aircraft by locking the radar system of the enemy aircraft.

Radars
The initial 42 JF-17 aircraft being delivered to PAF are fitted with an NRIET KLJ-7 radar. The KLJ-7 radar can track ten targets located beyond visual range (BVR) through track-while-scan mode.

An Italian Galileo Avionica Grifo S-7 pulse Doppler radar will replace the KLJ-7 radar in PAF's JF-17 aircraft. This radar can operate in 25 working modes for 200 hours continuously. Look-down, shoot-down and ground-strike are further capabilities.

Landing gear
A retractable tricycle-type landing gear is fitted to the JF-17. A steerable nosewheel is located under the cockpit between the air intakes, while the two main wheels are attached under the fuselage section between the wings. It also features hydraulic brakes comprising an automated anti-skid system.

"JF-17 / FC-1 is equipped with a glass cockpit and a specially designed canopy."
The JF-17 / FC-1 is powered by a single Klimov RD-93 turbofan engine. Each engine can produce a maximum of 49.4kN dry thrust and its thrust after-burner is 84.4kN.

An advanced WS-13 turbofan engine is currently being developed by Liyang Aero Engine Corporation, Guizhou, to replace the Klimov RD-93. It is expected to produce output thrust of 80 to 86.36 kN with a lifespan of 2,200 hours.

IFR probes

The fuel system, featuring internal fuel tanks carrying 2,330kg of fuel, is fitted to the FC-1. These tanks can be refuelled through a single-point-of-pressure refuelling system. The fuel system is also simpatico with Inflight Refuelling (IFR). The JF-17 being produced for the PAF will be fitted with IFR probes.

JF-17 performance
The JF-17 / FC-1 can fly at a maximum speed of 1,909km per hour. The range and service ceiling of the aircraft are 2,037km and 15,240m, respectively. Its operational radius is 1,352km. The aircraft weighs around 6,411kg and its maximum take-off weight is 12,474kg.

chengdu-jf-17.jpg



So... this says it all.
BVR, modern avionics, modern radars, all kind of pods, antiship missiles, G-dams and much much more.
For the Russian engines life span vs the western ones, one can look at the price too; if 2 or more Klimov engines cost the same as a western engine, then the choice is justifiable...until a better engine is made or found.
Many nations are and will be interested in this fighter plane due to its price to performance characteristics, but mainly because it offers them something that the US and Europe are very reluctant to offer; the BVR capabilities.
No need to compare, it is in a class of its own, call it the modern F-5 or the modern Mig-21, they both got very famous.
 
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