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What has America done for Pakistan?

Since your senses and your logical thinking and common sense (which seems very uncommon in you) can't get you look Behind Osama Bin Laden, and you can not see the 5000+ Pakistani Army Men Killed in War of Terror and Hundreds of Intelligence officials killed in the War of Terror and thousands of Pakistani Civilians Displaced, Killed in War of Terror, so i suggest you to Stop making non sense claims and leave honorably from here unless you are given shut up call.

P.S. Pakistani Army and Government was only found of Intelligence failure. Not for giving Shelter to OBL. This kind of Major Intelligence failure happens every where. The Big Examples Are, 9/11, American knew but could not stop the attack, London attacks, Your Mumbai attacks.

I have to say that there is some truth in your post. However about the P.S. and the bolded part...
Pakistan was one of the places of OBL's possile locations and there was a higher possibility of him being present in Pakistan. While 9/11, London and Mumbai attacks were unexpected. I hope that's an appropriate answer.
 
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Since your senses and your logical thinking and common sense (which seems very uncommon in you) can't get you look Behind Osama Bin Laden, and you can not see the 5000+ Pakistani Army Men Killed in War of Terror and Hundreds of Intelligence officials killed in the War of Terror and thousands of Pakistani Civilians Displaced, Killed in War of Terror, so i suggest you to Stop making non sense claims and leave honorably from here unless you are given shut up call.

P.S. Pakistani Army and Government was only found of Intelligence failure. Not for giving Shelter to OBL. This kind of Major Intelligence failure happens every where. The Big Examples Are, 9/11, American knew but could not stop the attack, London attacks, Your Mumbai attacks.

The big difference. U people have created this monsters and now they are killing because they see your perceived support to US. The mayhem created by the terrorists created by Pakistan is horrifying. U are paying the price of your sins.

Hopefully world will successfully rise and take this cancer out.
 
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The big difference. U people have created this monsters and now they are killing because they see your perceived support to US. The mayhem created by the terrorists created by Pakistan is horrifying. U are paying the price of your sins.

Hopefully world will successfully rise and take this cancer out.

You are very good at changing tracks, suddenly changed track from OBL to Monsters that Indians like to talk so dearly? Now you start talking about Indian Stance? What this topic at hand got to do with indian Stance at all, we are talking About Pakistan And USA here mate. Did we Create Al Qaeda? Did We Provide Shelter to OBL, no!!!!, these what we were talking before until your blind hatred thought to bring other groups which have nothing to do with topic at hand we are discussing. When nothing is left for argue, you bring the Indian Stance and beat the same bush again and again. SO childish of you

Pakistan was not in the State before 9/11 and Americans attacked the Afghanistan, that we are seeing now. So It means America was major influence and factor behind the creations of Such Groups.
 
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You ask where was America during 1965-1971 we were in the Vietnam war, But we still gave assistance for Pakistan even sent the seventh fleet with Nuclear Submarines and tried to even get China in the War during the 1971 war , if it were not for America ,Indian soldiers would have been drinking tea in a ruined Islamabad and Jinnah Tomb would have been destroyed and end to the Islamic state of Pakistan you guys should be a little more grateful.
 
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You are very good at changing tracks, suddenly changed track from OBL to Monsters that Indians like to talk so dearly? Now you start talking about Indian Stance? What this topic at hand got to do with indian Stance at all, we are talking About Pakistan And USA here mate. Did we Create Al Qaeda? Did We Provide Shelter to OBL, no!!!!, these what we were talking before until your blind hatred thought to bring other groups which have nothing to do with topic at hand we are discussing. When nothing is left for argue, you bring the Indian Stance and beat the same bush again and again. SO childish of you

Pakistan was not in the State before 9/11 and Americans attacked the Afghanistan, that we are seeing now. So It means America was major influence and factor behind the creations of Such Groups.

Cut the crap dude. Where Did I mention Indian stance ? The whole world say the same language about Pakistan.

As U people have the habit of saying that we didn't have any problem before WOT let me remind you, GOP have nurtured this groups for their strategic purpose but when under the pressure of US U tried to betrayed them , U got the kick from them. Tell me why U have so many terrorists attacks in your country? why U find all the dreaded terrorists in pakistan ? why U have so many drone attacks ? why the pakistan is the epicenter of terrorism ?

Rather than accusing other for your utter failure Pakistan should do a introspection because facts don't lie

Pakistan turns ‘new front line’ of war on terror News


Quoting a study by the New America Foundation, the paper said 53 percent of terror plots worldwide since 2004 involved jihadists trained in Pakistan, compared to six percent in Yemen and three percent in Iraq. Pakistani jihadi groups have directed 44 percent of the terror plots since then, according to the paper.
 
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Cut the crap dude. Where Did I mention Indian stance ? The whole world say the same language about Pakistan.

As U people have the habit of saying that we didn't have any problem before WOT let me remind you, GOP have nurtured this groups for their strategic purpose but when under the pressure of US U tried to betrayed them , U got the kick from them. Tell me why U have so many terrorists attacks in your country? why U find all the dreaded terrorists in pakistan ? why U have so many drone attacks ? why the pakistan is the epicenter of terrorism ?

Rather than accusing other for your utter failure Pakistan should do a introspection because facts don't lie


Pakistan turns ‘new front line’ of war on terror News


Let me Put some things in your Mind, So you get understand what is happening here in Pakistan. The Groups that are attacking Pakistan, Were formed after 2005 attack by US on a Seminary Which Killed 80 innocent Teenagers.At that time this group included the run away fighters from Afghanistan, Chechen, Arabs, Foreigners who hired local Tribes who wanted to avenge american attack. Before this incident happened, The fight was only contained in Tribal Areas and was fought with the runaway thousand of militants from afghanistan. But US maniac Drone attack made Militant Group to widen their spectrum of attacks and hiring and and that help them to go out from tribal areas and attack whole NWFP province

Then in 2006, TTP was formed, which consisted of many militant groups came under one umbrella, and these militant groups as usual consisted of local tribesmanm, chechens, uzbeks, arabs.

Then Came the 2007, Red Mosque Siege, Which made these groups attack whole Pakistan

We found So many dreaded terrorists in Pakistan, because when US attacked Afghanistan, Many Militants, and terrorists ran away to Pakistan through one of the most pourus borders of world which even America admits "the border can not be monitored effectively". And these terrorists and militants had lot of American hatred in them. That's when they came to Pak, they start recruiting local Population. and start blowing things Up, Because, In their minds, America made them homeless so they would make every country who is supporting america including america suffer.

So All the Groups and terrorism would not have existed if Americans wouldn't have attacked Afghanistan.
 
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Let me Put some things in your Mind, So you get understand what is happening here in Pakistan. The Groups that are attacking Pakistan, Were formed after 2005 attack by US on a Seminary Which Killed 80 innocent Teenagers.At that time this group included the run away fighters from Afghanistan, Chechen, Arabs, Foreigners And local Tribes who wanted to avenge american attack Before this incident happened, The fight was only contained in Tribal Areas. But US maniac Drone attack made Militant Group to widen their spectrum and include whole NWFP province.

Then in 2006, TTP was formed, which consisted of many militant groups came under one umbrella, and these militant groups as usual consisted of local tribesmanm, chechens, uzbeks, arabs.

Then Came the 2007, Red Mosque Siege, Which made these groups attack whole Pakistan

We found So many dreaded terrorists in Pakistan, because when US attacked Afghanistan, Many Militants, and terrorists ran away to Pakistan through one of the most pourus borders of world which even America admits "the border can not be monitored effectively". And these terrorists and militants had lot of American hatred in them. That's when they came to Pak, they start recruiting local Population. and start blowing things Up, Because, In their minds, America made them homeless so they would make every country who is supporting america including america suffer.

So All the Groups and terrorism would not have existed if Americans wouldn't have attacked Afghanistan.

And when this was happening what your famous intelligence ISI and your army was doing ? the question mark is big. Do some introspection you may find the answer.
 
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I have to say that there is some truth in your post. However about the P.S. and the bolded part...
Pakistan was one of the places of OBL's possile locations and there was a higher possibility of him being present in Pakistan. While 9/11, London and Mumbai attacks were unexpected. I hope that's an appropriate answer.

The simple fact, which most will not agree with, is the much bloated, all seeing and all knowing image of the local intelligence agencies has been shattered. The Indian intelligence apparatus is getting heat for this post Mumbai bombings and Pakistani intelligence has been suffering these admonishments since OBL's death. The reason is that the local intelligence agencies are still operating as if they are in the 70s. There is no significant investment in high tech capabilities. Most of the intelligence work is done with human resources that are limited. Until and unless Pakistan became a police state and hired hundred thousand more low level operatives and posted them in each neighbourhood, there is no way to pick out an individual in a town of millions. So what if OBL was found close to PMA and the Cantt area? I have lived a better part of my life in various cantonments and can tell you that the security is even more lax (things have changed a bit recently) on the inside. That civilians have been allowed into Cantonments means that civilians can rent/buy the houses and then rent them to someone else. The field operatives of the intelligence agencies are folks that are usually what we call "Chatti jamaat pass" (individuals with rudimentary elementary education) so to assume that the all seeing ISI or IB should have busted this guy a long time ago is a nice thought, however very far from reality. Most low level operatives provide point intelligence if assigned to the right job/place at the right time. That is a too much to ask in a country as populous as Pakistan.

There is no denying that some folks were helping OBL locally but all of those arrested have turned out to be civilians who had sympathy for OBL or were tied to him through ideology.
 
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The Groups that are attacking Pakistan, Were formed after 2005 attack by US on a Seminary Which Killed 80 innocent Teenagers.At that time this group included the run away fighters from Afghanistan, Chechen, Arabs, Foreigners who hired local Tribes who wanted to avenge american attack. Before this incident happened, The fight was only contained in Tribal Areas and was fought with the runaway thousand of militants from afghanistan. But US maniac Drone attack made Militant Group to widen their spectrum of attacks and hiring and and that help them to go out from tribal areas and attack whole NWFP province

Then in 2006, TTP was formed, which consisted of many militant groups came under one umbrella, and these militant groups as usual consisted of local tribesmanm, chechens, uzbeks, arabs.

Then Came the 2007, Red Mosque Siege, Which made these groups attack whole Pakistan

We found So many dreaded terrorists in Pakistan, because when US attacked Afghanistan, Many Militants, and terrorists ran away to Pakistan through one of the most pourus borders of world which even America admits "the border can not be monitored effectively". And these terrorists and militants had lot of American hatred in them. That's when they came to Pak, they start recruiting local Population. and start blowing things Up, Because, In their minds, America made them homeless so they would make every country who is supporting america including america suffer.

So All the Groups and terrorism would not have existed if Americans wouldn't have attacked Afghanistan.

Again, I agree to the most of the part of your post, but then just wanna make some small corrections.

USA wouldn't have attacked if there was no 9/11.

Pls also talk about pre 2005 when Pak even gave diplomatic recognition to Taliban!
 
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And when this was happening what your famous intelligence ISI and your army was doing ? the question mark is big. Do some introspection you may find the answer.

they was working same as what was doing RAW when 6 teen ages attack on india .?
 
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Pakistan’s ties with terrorists are strategic. Like al Qaeda, Pakistan refers to modern notions of national sovereignty and justice. Like Taliban, Pakistan is concerned less with the enemy and more with spies.

However, our ties with Washington are platonic. If reliability, trust and selflessness are the benchmarks, then the ISI’s evaluation of US foreign policy towards Pakistan is essentially a moral critique.

“What has America done for Pakistan?” parliamentarians asked before calling for a review of ties with the US. Inherent in that question are assumptions that need to be questioned themselves. Why should America do anything for Pakistan?

Pakistan was born a weak state. Soon after independence, Pakistan’s founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah asked the US, in a letter sent with his emissary, for $2 billion in military and financial aid, including $170 million for the army, $75 million for the air force, $60 million for the navy, and $700 million each for industrial and agricultural development. He had made a cultural choice.

Pakistan’s first prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan visited US president Harry Truman in 1950 to sell the country’s “geopolitical importance” to the super power. Pakistan’s decision to seek US help against the perceived Soviet designs to reach the warm waters of the Arabian sea was purely strategic.


What the US did for Pakistan consequently produced the conditions that allowed a state that was not expected to last very long when it came into existence, to develop robust agriculture to feed itself, one of the world’s largest militaries and the ability to produce nuclear energy and weapons.

What has America done for Pakistan’s armed forces?

From 1954 to 1956, the US gave Pakistan about $1400 million in military aid, helping an ill-equipped Pakistan Army develop infrastructure, mobility and firepower, and improve command, control, communication and intelligence capabilities for its newly raised divisions. Also in 1954, Pakistan began to receive more than 100 Sabre F-86F aircraft that made the core of its air force. Armed with Sidewinder missiles, these fighter planes gave the Pakistani air force a decisive edge over the Indian one.

Pakistan had also received several hundred M47 and M48 Patton tanks and artillery equipment that gave it tangible superiority over India. By 1971, Pakistan had lost this edge. During the 1971 war, a carrier task force of America’s Seventh Fleet that included nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Enterprise, several destroyers and nuclear-powered attack submarine Gurnard arrived in the Bay of Bengal in support of Pakistan. But Pakistan Army surrendered a day later.

In the 1980s, after Pakistan rejected a $400 million aid package as peanuts, more than $6 billion flew into the country along with weapons that included about a thousand Stinger missiles, as it fought a perceived Soviet threat in Afghanistan and developed a ‘strategic depth’. Since 9/11 (blamed on the ‘strategic assets’ that Pakistan developed in Afghanistan), we received more than $14 billion in military aid and reimbursements, 17 F-16 aircraft and artillery equipment despite substantial doubts on its commitment to the war on terror. Pakistan Navy received the PNS Alamgir frigate, boats, helicopters and two P-3C Orion surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft (with six in the pipeline) and assigned a key role in the Arabian Sea.

What has America done for Pakistan’s nuclear program?

Pakistan’s civil nuclear quest began with the American Atoms for Peace program. It was offered $350,000 to acquire a nuclear reactor in 1955. In 1965, years after scientists Dr Abdus Salam and Dr Ishrat Hussain Usmani traveled to the US, America gave Pakistan its first nuclear reactor. The reactor at Nilore near Islamabad was built by American nuclear engineer Peter Karter and supplied by contractors American Machine and Foundry.

It was only after Pakistan started to develop nuclear weapons that the US imposed sanctions on the country. American concerns of Pakistan’s role in nuclear proliferation eventually turned out to be true.

What has America done for Pakistan’s economy?

Pakistan’s major existential concern in its early years was that all its rivers came from India, and India could block them to cause famines in Pakistan. After negotiations between India and Pakistan failed, America intervened. With input from US public officials, the World Bank spent six years in talks with India and Pakistan to broker the Indus Water Treaty in 1960. After that, the US and the World Bank were major donors to Pakistan’s irrigation system, that included two large dams (Mangla Dam on Jhelum River and Tarbela Dam on Indus River) that added significantly to Pakistan electricity production, and a number of barrages and headworks (Sidhnai Ravi River, Rasul on Jhelum River, Qadirabad and Marala on Chenab and Chashma on Indus).

In the 1970s, American renaissance man Roger Revelle supervised the Salinity Control and Reclamation Program, American agricultural engineers worked with small-town machine shops in Pakistan to help them develop cheap local land-leveling equipment, and USAID’s agriculture chief Richard Newberg developed a fertiliser production and import policy for Pakistan convincing Washington to supply $100 million worth of fertiliser and invest in the Fauji Fertiliser plant.

American scientist Norman Borlaug, with his new varieties of high-yield seed, oversaw the Green Revolution in Pakistan. He received a Nobel Prize in 1970. By 1977, Pakistan’s production of wheat and other food grains had more than doubled and it became self-sufficient in food production. Decades later, Pakistan’s economy still depends on agriculture.

After the failure of its first five-year plan, Pakistan set up a Planning Commission in 1958. The second five-year plan encouraged private enterprise in areas where profits could be made, and government expenditure in less developed areas. It surpassed its goals and Pakistan became a model of industrial and economic development in what is known as the third world (for example South Korea modeled its capital Seoul after Karachi), mainly due to American input and financial aid.
After 9/11 when Pakistan decided to join the war on terror, the US helped rescheduled loans of more than $12 billion with members of the Paris Club, allowed duty-free import of hundreds of Pakistani products, and gave Pakistan the biggest economic assistance program since the cold war.

The impact of thousands of Pakistani students, researchers and professionals who were sent on scholarships to universities in the US cannot be measured in financial terms.

And in that manner of argument, it might be appropriate in the end to ask a question that has not been asked so far. What has Pakistan done for the US? What has Pakistan done for the US if reliability, trust and selflessness are the benchmarks? :usflag:

So Pakistan started taking Financial Help from Uncle Sam in 1947.

Reminds me of that old English Adage "He who Pays the Piper Calls the Tune".
 
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And when this was happening what your famous intelligence ISI and your army was doing ? the question mark is big. Do some introspection you may find the answer.

They were busy Containing and finishing Militants in Tribal Areas, And on the other hand, Co operating with American Intelligence capturing AL Qaeda terrorists from Major Cities, that's how First and Second Tier was caught and on the third hand, was also busy in Balochistan as the insurgency started their in the start of 2004.

Much more could have been achieved if ISI had the same amount of resource that CIA have.
 
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They were busy Containing and finishing Militants in Tribal Areas, And on the other hand, Co operating with American Intelligence capturing AL Qaeda terrorists from Major Cities, that's how First and Second Tier was caught and on the third hand, was also busy in Balochistan as the insurgency started their in the start of 2004.

Much more could have been achieved if ISI had the same amount of resource that CIA have.

I don't they succeeded otherwise u won't have so many attacks. One more question If u were so helping why the americans didn't share the info about OBL to U ? This has put a lot of question marks over the credibility and competency of ISI and your Army. and why there is no action against Haqqanis ??
 
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