DelhiDareDevil
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What cant China offer that USA can?
What has America done for Pakistan?
- Thread starter NeutralCitizen
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What cant China offer that USA can?
lionheart1
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Osama bin Laden has been stolen, Raymond Davis exorcised, and the militarys ego has been hurt once again by men dressed like characters from Star Wars. America is an unreliable ally, the ISI chief is said to have told the Pakistani parliament in a closed-door briefing.
Pakistans ties with terrorists are strategic. Like al Qaeda, Pakistan refers to modern notions of national sovereignty and justice. Like Taliban, Pakistan is concerned less with the enemy and more with spies.
However, our ties with Washington are platonic. If reliability, trust and selflessness are the benchmarks, then the ISIs evaluation of US foreign policy towards Pakistan is essentially a moral critique.
What has America done for Pakistan? parliamentarians asked before calling for a review of ties with the US. Inherent in that question are assumptions that need to be questioned themselves. Why should America do anything for Pakistan?
Pakistan was born a weak state. Soon after independence, Pakistans founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah asked the US, in a letter sent with his emissary, for $2 billion in military and financial aid, including $170 million for the army, $75 million for the air force, $60 million for the navy, and $700 million each for industrial and agricultural development. He had made a cultural choice.
Pakistans first prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan visited US president Harry Truman in 1950 to sell the countrys geopolitical importance to the super power. Pakistans decision to seek US help against the perceived Soviet designs to reach the warm waters of the Arabian sea was purely strategic.
What the US did for Pakistan consequently produced the conditions that allowed a state that was not expected to last very long when it came into existence, to develop robust agriculture to feed itself, one of the worlds largest militaries and the ability to produce nuclear energy and weapons.
What has America done for Pakistans armed forces?
From 1954 to 1956, the US gave Pakistan about $1400 million in military aid, helping an ill-equipped Pakistan Army develop infrastructure, mobility and firepower, and improve command, control, communication and intelligence capabilities for its newly raised divisions. Also in 1954, Pakistan began to receive more than 100 Sabre F-86F aircraft that made the core of its air force. Armed with Sidewinder missiles, these fighter planes gave the Pakistani air force a decisive edge over the Indian one.
Pakistan had also received several hundred M47 and M48 Patton tanks and artillery equipment that gave it tangible superiority over India. By 1971, Pakistan had lost this edge. During the 1971 war, a carrier task force of Americas Seventh Fleet that included nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Enterprise, several destroyers and nuclear-powered attack submarine Gurnard arrived in the Bay of Bengal in support of Pakistan. But Pakistan Army surrendered a day later.
In the 1980s, after Pakistan rejected a $400 million aid package as peanuts, more than $6 billion flew into the country along with weapons that included about a thousand Stinger missiles, as it fought a perceived Soviet threat in Afghanistan and developed a strategic depth. Since 9/11 (blamed on the strategic assets that Pakistan developed in Afghanistan), we received more than $14 billion in military aid and reimbursements, 17 F-16 aircraft and artillery equipment despite substantial doubts on its commitment to the war on terror. Pakistan Navy received the PNS Alamgir frigate, boats, helicopters and two P-3C Orion surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft (with six in the pipeline) and assigned a key role in the Arabian Sea.
What has America done for Pakistans nuclear program?
Pakistans civil nuclear quest began with the American Atoms for Peace program. It was offered $350,000 to acquire a nuclear reactor in 1955. In 1965, years after scientists Dr Abdus Salam and Dr Ishrat Hussain Usmani traveled to the US, America gave Pakistan its first nuclear reactor. The reactor at Nilore near Islamabad was built by American nuclear engineer Peter Karter and supplied by contractors American Machine and Foundry.
It was only after Pakistan started to develop nuclear weapons that the US imposed sanctions on the country. American concerns of Pakistans role in nuclear proliferation eventually turned out to be true.
What has America done for Pakistans economy?
Pakistans major existential concern in its early years was that all its rivers came from India, and India could block them to cause famines in Pakistan. After negotiations between India and Pakistan failed, America intervened. With input from US public officials, the World Bank spent six years in talks with India and Pakistan to broker the Indus Water Treaty in 1960. After that, the US and the World Bank were major donors to Pakistans irrigation system, that included two large dams (Mangla Dam on Jhelum River and Tarbela Dam on Indus River) that added significantly to Pakistan electricity production, and a number of barrages and headworks (Sidhnai Ravi River, Rasul on Jhelum River, Qadirabad and Marala on Chenab and Chashma on Indus).
In the 1970s, American renaissance man Roger Revelle supervised the Salinity Control and Reclamation Program, American agricultural engineers worked with small-town machine shops in Pakistan to help them develop cheap local land-leveling equipment, and USAIDs agriculture chief Richard Newberg developed a fertiliser production and import policy for Pakistan convincing Washington to supply $100 million worth of fertiliser and invest in the Fauji Fertiliser plant.
American scientist Norman Borlaug, with his new varieties of high-yield seed, oversaw the Green Revolution in Pakistan. He received a Nobel Prize in 1970. By 1977, Pakistans production of wheat and other food grains had more than doubled and it became self-sufficient in food production. Decades later, Pakistans economy still depends on agriculture.
After the failure of its first five-year plan, Pakistan set up a Planning Commission in 1958. The second five-year plan encouraged private enterprise in areas where profits could be made, and government expenditure in less developed areas. It surpassed its goals and Pakistan became a model of industrial and economic development in what is known as the third world (for example South Korea modeled its capital Seoul after Karachi), mainly due to American input and financial aid.
After 9/11 when Pakistan decided to join the war on terror, the US helped rescheduled loans of more than $12 billion with members of the Paris Club, allowed duty-free import of hundreds of Pakistani products, and gave Pakistan the biggest economic assistance program since the cold war.
The impact of thousands of Pakistani students, researchers and professionals who were sent on scholarships to universities in the US cannot be measured in financial terms.
And in that manner of argument, it might be appropriate in the end to ask a question that has not been asked so far. What has Pakistan done for the US? What has Pakistan done for the US if reliability, trust and selflessness are the benchmarks?
What has America done for Pakistan? | | DAWN.COM
Pakistans ties with terrorists are strategic. Like al Qaeda, Pakistan refers to modern notions of national sovereignty and justice. Like Taliban, Pakistan is concerned less with the enemy and more with spies.
However, our ties with Washington are platonic. If reliability, trust and selflessness are the benchmarks, then the ISIs evaluation of US foreign policy towards Pakistan is essentially a moral critique.
What has America done for Pakistan? parliamentarians asked before calling for a review of ties with the US. Inherent in that question are assumptions that need to be questioned themselves. Why should America do anything for Pakistan?
Pakistan was born a weak state. Soon after independence, Pakistans founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah asked the US, in a letter sent with his emissary, for $2 billion in military and financial aid, including $170 million for the army, $75 million for the air force, $60 million for the navy, and $700 million each for industrial and agricultural development. He had made a cultural choice.
Pakistans first prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan visited US president Harry Truman in 1950 to sell the countrys geopolitical importance to the super power. Pakistans decision to seek US help against the perceived Soviet designs to reach the warm waters of the Arabian sea was purely strategic.
What the US did for Pakistan consequently produced the conditions that allowed a state that was not expected to last very long when it came into existence, to develop robust agriculture to feed itself, one of the worlds largest militaries and the ability to produce nuclear energy and weapons.
What has America done for Pakistans armed forces?
From 1954 to 1956, the US gave Pakistan about $1400 million in military aid, helping an ill-equipped Pakistan Army develop infrastructure, mobility and firepower, and improve command, control, communication and intelligence capabilities for its newly raised divisions. Also in 1954, Pakistan began to receive more than 100 Sabre F-86F aircraft that made the core of its air force. Armed with Sidewinder missiles, these fighter planes gave the Pakistani air force a decisive edge over the Indian one.
Pakistan had also received several hundred M47 and M48 Patton tanks and artillery equipment that gave it tangible superiority over India. By 1971, Pakistan had lost this edge. During the 1971 war, a carrier task force of Americas Seventh Fleet that included nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Enterprise, several destroyers and nuclear-powered attack submarine Gurnard arrived in the Bay of Bengal in support of Pakistan. But Pakistan Army surrendered a day later.
In the 1980s, after Pakistan rejected a $400 million aid package as peanuts, more than $6 billion flew into the country along with weapons that included about a thousand Stinger missiles, as it fought a perceived Soviet threat in Afghanistan and developed a strategic depth. Since 9/11 (blamed on the strategic assets that Pakistan developed in Afghanistan), we received more than $14 billion in military aid and reimbursements, 17 F-16 aircraft and artillery equipment despite substantial doubts on its commitment to the war on terror. Pakistan Navy received the PNS Alamgir frigate, boats, helicopters and two P-3C Orion surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft (with six in the pipeline) and assigned a key role in the Arabian Sea.
What has America done for Pakistans nuclear program?
Pakistans civil nuclear quest began with the American Atoms for Peace program. It was offered $350,000 to acquire a nuclear reactor in 1955. In 1965, years after scientists Dr Abdus Salam and Dr Ishrat Hussain Usmani traveled to the US, America gave Pakistan its first nuclear reactor. The reactor at Nilore near Islamabad was built by American nuclear engineer Peter Karter and supplied by contractors American Machine and Foundry.
It was only after Pakistan started to develop nuclear weapons that the US imposed sanctions on the country. American concerns of Pakistans role in nuclear proliferation eventually turned out to be true.
What has America done for Pakistans economy?
Pakistans major existential concern in its early years was that all its rivers came from India, and India could block them to cause famines in Pakistan. After negotiations between India and Pakistan failed, America intervened. With input from US public officials, the World Bank spent six years in talks with India and Pakistan to broker the Indus Water Treaty in 1960. After that, the US and the World Bank were major donors to Pakistans irrigation system, that included two large dams (Mangla Dam on Jhelum River and Tarbela Dam on Indus River) that added significantly to Pakistan electricity production, and a number of barrages and headworks (Sidhnai Ravi River, Rasul on Jhelum River, Qadirabad and Marala on Chenab and Chashma on Indus).
In the 1970s, American renaissance man Roger Revelle supervised the Salinity Control and Reclamation Program, American agricultural engineers worked with small-town machine shops in Pakistan to help them develop cheap local land-leveling equipment, and USAIDs agriculture chief Richard Newberg developed a fertiliser production and import policy for Pakistan convincing Washington to supply $100 million worth of fertiliser and invest in the Fauji Fertiliser plant.
American scientist Norman Borlaug, with his new varieties of high-yield seed, oversaw the Green Revolution in Pakistan. He received a Nobel Prize in 1970. By 1977, Pakistans production of wheat and other food grains had more than doubled and it became self-sufficient in food production. Decades later, Pakistans economy still depends on agriculture.
After the failure of its first five-year plan, Pakistan set up a Planning Commission in 1958. The second five-year plan encouraged private enterprise in areas where profits could be made, and government expenditure in less developed areas. It surpassed its goals and Pakistan became a model of industrial and economic development in what is known as the third world (for example South Korea modeled its capital Seoul after Karachi), mainly due to American input and financial aid.
After 9/11 when Pakistan decided to join the war on terror, the US helped rescheduled loans of more than $12 billion with members of the Paris Club, allowed duty-free import of hundreds of Pakistani products, and gave Pakistan the biggest economic assistance program since the cold war.
The impact of thousands of Pakistani students, researchers and professionals who were sent on scholarships to universities in the US cannot be measured in financial terms.
And in that manner of argument, it might be appropriate in the end to ask a question that has not been asked so far. What has Pakistan done for the US? What has Pakistan done for the US if reliability, trust and selflessness are the benchmarks?
What has America done for Pakistan? | | DAWN.COM
Evil Flare
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Pakistan has lost 40,000 lives ... Billions of $$$ .. Pakistan is ruined ... we are a laughing stock of this world ...
“To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal” SAID "Henry Kissinger"
“To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal” SAID "Henry Kissinger"
Meengla
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The OP quoted article is spot on in many ways: American help was crucial in making the fledgling state of Pakistan stand on its own feet--and yes, it did for most of its history. There are countless ways American help played a crucial role. It may have been America's own interests--but that's how the world works--but Pakistan did benefit from that relationship. Let's not cloud our judgment based on the recent rhetoric from both sides on this issue.
However, now India is the new darling. May be for market access, may be for weapon sales, may be to contain China. I don't know. But that's the reality. Pakistan is being asked to play a role subservient to the Indian-American goals in the region. May be some people can say that Pakistan should accept that because of Pakistan's weak position. It will require Pakistan to significantly downgrade strategic relationship with China. I am sure IF Pakistan goes that route then all this noise will vanish.
However, now India is the new darling. May be for market access, may be for weapon sales, may be to contain China. I don't know. But that's the reality. Pakistan is being asked to play a role subservient to the Indian-American goals in the region. May be some people can say that Pakistan should accept that because of Pakistan's weak position. It will require Pakistan to significantly downgrade strategic relationship with China. I am sure IF Pakistan goes that route then all this noise will vanish.
pak-marine
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WTF ... why NOT open a thread as what Pakistanis have done for Pakistan ?? stupid assumptions will leave us in the middle of NOWHERE
Respect4Respect01
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yes, the government that is backed by usa,
MastanKhan
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Wars are terrible things and exploding bomb shrapnels have no conscinece----God forgive me for speaking as such---for I don't want my children to be facing that situation-----but isn't it about time for the tribes in waziristan to wake up and stop giving protection to the terrorists----and paks start condemning these lunatics and start reporting on them----insteda of acting like chicken and laying low and saying---if you don't do anything to them in our country---theyu won't do anything to us in return..
These strikes may get a little deeper over the period of time-----and that would truly be painful.
The loss of 61 billion dollars is of pakistan's making----it is the pakistani civilians who cause dit to happen-----if you would have known the enemy from day one----you would have been better off----if you would have realized that those who tie bombs to their bodies and blow other people up can as easily switch allegiance / position and do it to you if you fall into the guidelines of their demands.
The lackadaisical attitude towards al qaeda esacapees at tora bora, the lal masjid affair, judge Chaudhry affair0----what kind of games were the paks playing----ALLAH had given them the goose that lay the golden egg----and they slayed it to see how many eggs it was hiding inside-----.
Nobody told you to burn your trains and diesel locomotives---nobody told you to destroy your own country if somebody defame prophet Mohammad in europe----did the saudis destroy their country----prophet Mohamad was born in sauid arabia----if anyone should have had problems---it should have been the saudis-----.
Are you pakistanis GOD----he is God's prophet----let the GOD take care of His issues----what is your problem-----all this misery that pakistan faces----most of it is MADE IN PAKISTAN----HECHE EN PAKISTAN----.
Don't blame the world and america for those issues----you wanted to go fight the jihad in afg after the u s invasion of afg----you wanted to go fight jihad for everyone else accept for your own country----when your country needed you to fight a jihad for its sake-------you were busy playing games-----.
You got a chicken----you could have made chicken soup out of it----but you thought---I will make fertilizer out of the chicken poop and prosper----but you forgot that if the heap gets too big and you fall into it----you can die with the chicken poop in the mouth-----so why are you crying today pakistan.
These strikes may get a little deeper over the period of time-----and that would truly be painful.
The loss of 61 billion dollars is of pakistan's making----it is the pakistani civilians who cause dit to happen-----if you would have known the enemy from day one----you would have been better off----if you would have realized that those who tie bombs to their bodies and blow other people up can as easily switch allegiance / position and do it to you if you fall into the guidelines of their demands.
The lackadaisical attitude towards al qaeda esacapees at tora bora, the lal masjid affair, judge Chaudhry affair0----what kind of games were the paks playing----ALLAH had given them the goose that lay the golden egg----and they slayed it to see how many eggs it was hiding inside-----.
Nobody told you to burn your trains and diesel locomotives---nobody told you to destroy your own country if somebody defame prophet Mohammad in europe----did the saudis destroy their country----prophet Mohamad was born in sauid arabia----if anyone should have had problems---it should have been the saudis-----.
Are you pakistanis GOD----he is God's prophet----let the GOD take care of His issues----what is your problem-----all this misery that pakistan faces----most of it is MADE IN PAKISTAN----HECHE EN PAKISTAN----.
Don't blame the world and america for those issues----you wanted to go fight the jihad in afg after the u s invasion of afg----you wanted to go fight jihad for everyone else accept for your own country----when your country needed you to fight a jihad for its sake-------you were busy playing games-----.
You got a chicken----you could have made chicken soup out of it----but you thought---I will make fertilizer out of the chicken poop and prosper----but you forgot that if the heap gets too big and you fall into it----you can die with the chicken poop in the mouth-----so why are you crying today pakistan.
kawaraj
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damn it, Americans hurt Pakistan more than help, is that so obvious?
you revenge is sacrificing the basic interest of Pakistanis. how selfish. by the way, Indians has no business here.
get out WOT, and leave us along, we will be better off without you.
you revenge is sacrificing the basic interest of Pakistanis. how selfish. by the way, Indians has no business here.
get out WOT, and leave us along, we will be better off without you.
Janubaba
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Sir fighting your war we have lost 70 Billion Dollars you have killed thousands in Pakistan you betrayed us in 1965 and 1971 you left us after Afghan War you give Nuclear support to India sir so plz keep this funny support to yourself you have damaged Pakistan more in form of help than doing anything goodPakistans ties with terrorists are strategic. Like al Qaeda, Pakistan refers to modern notions of national sovereignty and justice. Like Taliban, Pakistan is concerned less with the enemy and more with spies.
However, our ties with Washington are platonic. If reliability, trust and selflessness are the benchmarks, then the ISIs evaluation of US foreign policy towards Pakistan is essentially a moral critique.
What has America done for Pakistan? parliamentarians asked before calling for a review of ties with the US. Inherent in that question are assumptions that need to be questioned themselves. Why should America do anything for Pakistan?
Pakistan was born a weak state. Soon after independence, Pakistans founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah asked the US, in a letter sent with his emissary, for $2 billion in military and financial aid, including $170 million for the army, $75 million for the air force, $60 million for the navy, and $700 million each for industrial and agricultural development. He had made a cultural choice.
Pakistans first prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan visited US president Harry Truman in 1950 to sell the countrys geopolitical importance to the super power. Pakistans decision to seek US help against the perceived Soviet designs to reach the warm waters of the Arabian sea was purely strategic.
What the US did for Pakistan consequently produced the conditions that allowed a state that was not expected to last very long when it came into existence, to develop robust agriculture to feed itself, one of the worlds largest militaries and the ability to produce nuclear energy and weapons.
What has America done for Pakistans armed forces?
From 1954 to 1956, the US gave Pakistan about $1400 million in military aid, helping an ill-equipped Pakistan Army develop infrastructure, mobility and firepower, and improve command, control, communication and intelligence capabilities for its newly raised divisions. Also in 1954, Pakistan began to receive more than 100 Sabre F-86F aircraft that made the core of its air force. Armed with Sidewinder missiles, these fighter planes gave the Pakistani air force a decisive edge over the Indian one.
Pakistan had also received several hundred M47 and M48 Patton tanks and artillery equipment that gave it tangible superiority over India. By 1971, Pakistan had lost this edge. During the 1971 war, a carrier task force of Americas Seventh Fleet that included nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Enterprise, several destroyers and nuclear-powered attack submarine Gurnard arrived in the Bay of Bengal in support of Pakistan. But Pakistan Army surrendered a day later.
In the 1980s, after Pakistan rejected a $400 million aid package as peanuts, more than $6 billion flew into the country along with weapons that included about a thousand Stinger missiles, as it fought a perceived Soviet threat in Afghanistan and developed a strategic depth. Since 9/11 (blamed on the strategic assets that Pakistan developed in Afghanistan), we received more than $14 billion in military aid and reimbursements, 17 F-16 aircraft and artillery equipment despite substantial doubts on its commitment to the war on terror. Pakistan Navy received the PNS Alamgir frigate, boats, helicopters and two P-3C Orion surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft (with six in the pipeline) and assigned a key role in the Arabian Sea.
What has America done for Pakistans nuclear program?
Pakistans civil nuclear quest began with the American Atoms for Peace program. It was offered $350,000 to acquire a nuclear reactor in 1955. In 1965, years after scientists Dr Abdus Salam and Dr Ishrat Hussain Usmani traveled to the US, America gave Pakistan its first nuclear reactor. The reactor at Nilore near Islamabad was built by American nuclear engineer Peter Karter and supplied by contractors American Machine and Foundry.
It was only after Pakistan started to develop nuclear weapons that the US imposed sanctions on the country. American concerns of Pakistans role in nuclear proliferation eventually turned out to be true.
What has America done for Pakistans economy?
Pakistans major existential concern in its early years was that all its rivers came from India, and India could block them to cause famines in Pakistan. After negotiations between India and Pakistan failed, America intervened. With input from US public officials, the World Bank spent six years in talks with India and Pakistan to broker the Indus Water Treaty in 1960. After that, the US and the World Bank were major donors to Pakistans irrigation system, that included two large dams (Mangla Dam on Jhelum River and Tarbela Dam on Indus River) that added significantly to Pakistan electricity production, and a number of barrages and headworks (Sidhnai Ravi River, Rasul on Jhelum River, Qadirabad and Marala on Chenab and Chashma on Indus).
In the 1970s, American renaissance man Roger Revelle supervised the Salinity Control and Reclamation Program, American agricultural engineers worked with small-town machine shops in Pakistan to help them develop cheap local land-leveling equipment, and USAIDs agriculture chief Richard Newberg developed a fertiliser production and import policy for Pakistan convincing Washington to supply $100 million worth of fertiliser and invest in the Fauji Fertiliser plant.
American scientist Norman Borlaug, with his new varieties of high-yield seed, oversaw the Green Revolution in Pakistan. He received a Nobel Prize in 1970. By 1977, Pakistans production of wheat and other food grains had more than doubled and it became self-sufficient in food production. Decades later, Pakistans economy still depends on agriculture.
After the failure of its first five-year plan, Pakistan set up a Planning Commission in 1958. The second five-year plan encouraged private enterprise in areas where profits could be made, and government expenditure in less developed areas. It surpassed its goals and Pakistan became a model of industrial and economic development in what is known as the third world (for example South Korea modeled its capital Seoul after Karachi), mainly due to American input and financial aid.
After 9/11 when Pakistan decided to join the war on terror, the US helped rescheduled loans of more than $12 billion with members of the Paris Club, allowed duty-free import of hundreds of Pakistani products, and gave Pakistan the biggest economic assistance program since the cold war.
The impact of thousands of Pakistani students, researchers and professionals who were sent on scholarships to universities in the US cannot be measured in financial terms.
And in that manner of argument, it might be appropriate in the end to ask a question that has not been asked so far. What has Pakistan done for the US? What has Pakistan done for the US if reliability, trust and selflessness are the benchmarks?
---------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 AM ----------
As those students are concerned sir they are not studying their free they pay you for that
and you also support our corrupt politicians so don't tell us about your support
third eye
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None of the concerns listed above have happened without the tacit or open concurrence of GOP .
In all fairness, Pak to begin with was at a position wherein it had tremendous leverage. The funds that came in were not small either & if judiciously used would have mattered.
RPK
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RPK
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I have been giving the american pakistani relationship some thought since a few days ago that I posted that this relationship was doing my head in.
I think an apt discription of this relationship is to describe this relationship as that one between a drug dealer(US) and a junkie (pakistan). Hense we need a doctor(China) to help us get off the addiction.
I think an apt discription of this relationship is to describe this relationship as that one between a drug dealer(US) and a junkie (pakistan). Hense we need a doctor(China) to help us get off the addiction.
