What Does the United States Get from its Relationship with Israel?

[jammersat]

They united states are old fashioned they think they are protecting europe from jews and another world war by supplying israel with what they need , and what they don't , but they are dumb too , they don't know jews are going to europe on a massive scale and the united states too , so their support of israel is pointless , they will realize this when it's too late.

 

[Developereo]

Well that happened in Kosovo for example. Serbs were cleansed and all the world applaud.

I know the Israelis live in fantasy land, but you don't have to prove it every time.

Also, it is fascinating that the racist ethnic cleansers in Palestine would sympathize with the racist ethnic cleansers from Serbia.

I live on lands which were legally bought. Nevertheless Hamas still wants to expel me. But according to you they are not fanatics and simply nice guys.

Just repeating the Israeli fantasy won't make it reality.

All you are doing is demonstrating the desperate lengths to which Israeli revisionists will go -- even denying their own historians and intelligence officers -- to make believe in their fairy tale.

If I buy a couple of apartments in Sydney, it doesn't give me the right to expel all non-Muslims from the rest of Australia and declare it a 'Muslim State'.

 

[Kaniska]

How do you define 'moderate'?

If the vast majority of Muslims demanded that people in some distant land be thrown out of their homes to create room for migrating Muslims to create a 'Muslim State', would that be a 'moderate' stance or an 'extremist' one?

Yet Zionist fanatics (of various faiths) have manged to portray the racist Jewish colonization of Palestine as a legitimate enterprise, and the people opposing this racist endeavor are painted as fanatics.

The point I am making is that there is nothing racist or extremist about opposing Israel. It is Israel which is the racist and extremist element in the equation.

I am limiting my comment to the Israel-Palestine issue, since the wider point you are making will lead to a much bigger discussion.

I agree..but your support and sympathy for Palestine is not because Palenstine is oppressed people...it is because Palestine is a Muslim nation..And this is where unfortunately Palestine is being dragged as a Muslim issue rather than an humanitarian issue of oppressed people...And this narrative has a big impact of the people who support or oppose Palestine...Now, if you are supporting against oppression of any aggressor, is all the Muslim nation is being fair to all the nations or people across the world where people are oppressed? Of course no...and there lies the hypocrisy of the situation....This is what being exploited and highlighted by Israel. ...The narrative of Palestine has been transformed from being oppressed people to Muslims all over the world is trying to annihilate a tiny nation like Israel from the earth...Now those people who understand the situation but do not come out openly to support Palestine because Palestine is turned out to be a Islamic nation issue...Because, same Muslim nations did not show any sympathy when China occupied Tibet or even Russia was fighting against Chechnya and many more examples that can be provided...
Again, i am not questioning the rationale of the Palestine cause...Here i am questioning the narrative of the Palestine issue which is hijacked by the same sympathizer of the Palestine cause as the fight between Muslims vs Non Muslims...And exactly this is what Isreal is working with its favor in US and the West....

 

[ozzy22]

I agree..but your support and sympathy for Palestine is not because Palenstine is oppressed people...it is because Palestine is a Muslim nation..And this is where unfortunately Palestine is being dragged as a Muslim issue rather than an humanitarian issue of oppressed people...And this narrative has a big impact of the people who support or oppose Palestine...Now, if you are supporting against oppression of any aggressor, is all the Muslim nation is being fair to all the nations or people across the world where people are oppressed? Of course no...and there lies the hypocrisy of the situation....This is what being exploited and highlighted by Israel. ...The narrative of Palestine has been transformed from being oppressed people to Muslims all over the world is trying to annihilate a tiny nation like Israel from the earth...Now those people who understand the situation but do not come out openly to support Palestine because Palestine is turned out to be a Islamic nation issue...Because, same Muslim nations did not show any sympathy when China occupied Tibet or even Russia was fighting against Chechnya and many more examples that can be provided...
Again, i am not questioning the rationale of the Palestine cause...Here i am questioning the narrative of the Palestine issue which is hijacked by the same sympathizer of the Palestine cause as the fight between Muslims vs Non Muslims...And exactly this is what Isreal is working with its favor in US and the West....

I support Palestine and I can guarantee you I would support them even if I became an atheist tomorrow (even the most critical people of Islam have spoken out against Israel. Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins) and this conflict is a land dispute between two ethnic groups that only recently started to have more of a religious elements to it and before was more based on Arab nationalism. (talking about the Palestinian side)

 

[500]

I know the Israelis live in fantasy land, but you don't have to prove it every time.

I bring you facts. Serbs were absolute majority in Kosovo. They were cleansed to create an Albanian state. And you are fine with that.

Greeks were cleansed from North Cyprus. Germans were cleansed from Poland and Czechoslovakia to create these states. You dont care.

I can bring you a very recent example: Georgians were cleansed from Abkhazia in 1991. It was Georgian majority then they were cleansed. Georgians were cleansed again from Ossetia in 2008. No one including u cares.

Contrary to examples above in Palestine number of Arabs only increased many times (both in inside and outside 1967 borders). Yet you whine its colonization and cleansing.

Just repeating the Israeli fantasy won't make it reality.

Its fact sweetie. I live on bought land you live on stolen land.

If I buy a couple of apartments in Sydney, it doesn't give me the right to expel all non-Muslims from the rest of Australia and declare it a 'Muslim State'.

Well if as result of peaceful settlement Muslims will became a majority in some area of Australia they can declare there a Muslim state - why not. Thats actually how all Muslims state were created, except settlement was not that peaceful. Plus Australia is already a state. Palestine was not a state when Jews peacefully settled there buying lands.

All human history is history of colonization. Since first Homo Sapiens came from Africa and colonized lands of Neandertaleans.

Arabs that you cry about are also one of the biggest colonizers in human history if not the biggest.

In was majority of cases this colonization was very brutal. Australia where u live is example of brutal colonization.

Zionism on the other hand is rare example of peaceful colonization. Jews settled buying lands. 1947 war started by Arabs caused some refugees from both sides. That very similar to events during the partition of India in same exactly time.

 

[cnleio]

Yes I support Israel.

What about most Japanese feeling, also pro-Israel ?

 

[Falcon29]

I agree..but your support and sympathy for Palestine is not because Palenstine is oppressed people...it is because Palestine is a Muslim nation..And this is where unfortunately Palestine is being dragged as a Muslim issue rather than an humanitarian issue of oppressed people...And this narrative has a big impact of the people who support or oppose Palestine...Now, if you are supporting against oppression of any aggressor, is all the Muslim nation is being fair to all the nations or people across the world where people are oppressed? Of course no...and there lies the hypocrisy of the situation....This is what being exploited and highlighted by Israel. ...The narrative of Palestine has been transformed from being oppressed people to Muslims all over the world is trying to annihilate a tiny nation like Israel from the earth...Now those people who understand the situation but do not come out openly to support Palestine because Palestine is turned out to be a Islamic nation issue...Because, same Muslim nations did not show any sympathy when China occupied Tibet or even Russia was fighting against Chechnya and many more examples that can be provided...
Again, i am not questioning the rationale of the Palestine cause...Here i am questioning the narrative of the Palestine issue which is hijacked by the same sympathizer of the Palestine cause as the fight between Muslims vs Non Muslims...And exactly this is what Isreal is working with its favor in US and the West....

I already refuted this earlier in the thread yet you repeated it again. Just because you want to make it a Muslim issue doesn't mean that it is. It is a humantarian issue, as evident by the very first nations to recognize Palestinian or consider doing so were non-Muslim nations such as Sweden and Ireland for example.

 

[Kyoto]

Zionism on the other hand is rare example of peaceful colonization. Jews settled buying lands. 1947 war started by Arabs caused some refugees from both sides. That very similar to events during the partition of India in same exactly time.

Haha, 'peaceful colonization.'

 

[Kaniska]

I already refuted this earlier in the thread yet you repeated it again. Just because you want to make it a Muslim issue doesn't mean that it is. It is a humantarian issue, as evident by the very first nations to recognize Palestinian or consider doing so were non-Muslim nations such as Sweden and Ireland for example.

...

I support Palestine and I can guarantee you I would support them even if I became an atheist tomorrow (even the most critical people of Islam have spoken out against Israel. Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins) and this conflict is a land dispute between two ethnic groups that only recently started to have more of a religious elements to it and before was more based on Arab nationalism. (talking about the Palestinian side)

Now if you support Palestine people and you are so neutral and rationale in your mindset, then why do not you support separatist of Tibet people who are also fighting against the occupation of China to Tibet? How Palestine people are more privileged to get your support than the people of Tibet?...

If you ask me, i am very candid with my thought...my support to Palestine or its movement depends on how people of Palestine respect India and its issues...If Palestine supports India's stand on certain critical issues, I am with them...Otherwise, i am neutral and no opinion about them...

 

[Developereo]

I bring you facts

You bring Israeli hallucinations to distract from the topic of discussion of Jewish racist colonization in Israel.

What someone did elsewhere has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that racist Jews colonized Palestine.

Contrary to examples above in Palestine number of Arabs only increased many times (both in inside and outside 1967 borders).

We've been through this already. You need to open a dictionary and learn the meaning of 'ethnic cleansing' We are not discussing genocide, but ethnic cleansing, which is the forced removal of people based on their ethnicity -- which is what your racist compatriots did to the Arabs.

If I eject large numbers of blacks from New York State, it is still ethnic cleansing, regardless of the fact that the total number of blacks in the US may not be affected, or the number of remaining blacks within New York State increases over decades through birth.

No one, not even the Israeli government, denies this. And your credibility was shot to hell when you kept waffling between

"no Arabs left the area"
and
"the Arabs left voluntarily"
and
"others did it elsewhere, so don't blame racist Jews for doing it too"

Well if as result of peaceful settlement Muslims will became a majority in some area of Australia they can declare there a Muslim state - why not.

It would not give us the right to forcefully eject and/or kill non-Muslims.

Your continued penchant to point at other racist colonizations throughout history to justify this latest example of Jewish racist colonization is amusing. You guys are so caught up in your own victimhood narrative that you can't recognize that you have become the racial supremacist monsters you complain about.

I agree..but your support and sympathy for Palestine is not because Palenstine is oppressed people...it is because Palestine is a Muslim nation..And this is where unfortunately Palestine is being dragged as a Muslim issue rather than an humanitarian issue of oppressed people...And this narrative has a big impact of the people who support or oppose Palestine...Now, if you are supporting against oppression of any aggressor, is all the Muslim nation is being fair to all the nations or people across the world where people are oppressed? Of course no...and there lies the hypocrisy of the situation....This is what being exploited and highlighted by Israel. ...The narrative of Palestine has been transformed from being oppressed people to Muslims all over the world is trying to annihilate a tiny nation like Israel from the earth...Now those people who understand the situation but do not come out openly to support Palestine because Palestine is turned out to be a Islamic nation issue...Because, same Muslim nations did not show any sympathy when China occupied Tibet or even Russia was fighting against Chechnya and many more examples that can be provided...
Again, i am not questioning the rationale of the Palestine cause...Here i am questioning the narrative of the Palestine issue which is hijacked by the same sympathizer of the Palestine cause as the fight between Muslims vs Non Muslims...And exactly this is what Isreal is working with its favor in US and the West....

You've got the cart before the horse.

It is not Muslims, but the Zionist Jews who framed Israel as a religious issue in order to milk the Holocaust sympathy card, to leverage the anti-Semitism shield against criticisms, and to brainwash (almost) all Jews (and some Christians) into supporting Israel as a religious duty.

As part of their religious angle, the Zionists have had a policy from day one to demonize Arabs and Muslims. The reason they succeed is because Zionists dominate western media.

In any situation, what matters is not the facts but the propaganda. If a group of racist white migrants threw out the locals to create a 'white homeland', it would be condemned. If anyone else did it, they would be condemned. But when racist Jews do it, they are portrayed as the victims.

It's all about media domination.

your support and sympathy for Palestine is not because Palenstine is oppressed people...it is because Palestine is a Muslim nation.

That is not entirely true.

My support for Palestinians is because they are the victims of racist colonization.

The fact that the racist colonialists have decided to malign my religion as part of their propaganda campaign does inject a personal angle. but support for Palestinian rights is a humanitarian issue.

The racist colonialist Jews do not have any moral standing in this matter.

 

[500]

You bring Israeli hallucinations to distract from the topic of discussion of Jewish racist colonization in Israel.

What someone did elsewhere has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that racist Jews colonized Palestine.

There are plenty of states which were created as result of REAL ethnic cleansing . But you dont give a damn about it and cry about fake ethnic cleansing.

We've been through this already.

Yep. You lied about decades of ethnic cleansing.

No one, not even the Israeli government, denies this. And your credibility was shot to hell when you kept waffling between

Again you are lying. On contrary, even some Arabs admit that their false propaganda and calls of eviction caused refugees:

Ironically they did it again recently. During 2006 war Nasrallah called Arabs to evacuate Haifa exactly as their leaders did in 1948:

Nasrallah Urges Arabs to Leave Haifa

But this time contrary to 1948 Arabs did not listen him:

Haifa's Arabs: We won't leave city - Israel News, Ynetnews

And your credibility was shot to hell when you kept waffling between

"no Arabs left the area"
and
"the Arabs left voluntarily"
and
"others did it elsewhere, so don't blame racist Jews for doing it too"

Arabs left as result of war they started. Arabs started a war and it caused refugees from both sides. What happened is VERY similar to events in during partition of India in 1947.

It would not give us the right to forcefully eject and/or kill non-Muslims.

Neither Israel eject anyone. Jews offered Arabs to live as equals. But they started a war and fled. There were Arabs who did not start war and no one touched them. For example Druze officially declared neutrality and not a single Druze became a refugee. If Arabs were not starting a war there would not be any refugees, not Jewish mot Arab.

Your continued penchant to point at other racist colonizations

The only racist here is you, who lives on stolen land and has a nerve to preach me morals.

Plus you dont care about all other countries who made REAL ethnic cleansing, but only whine about Israel.

You guys are so caught up in your own victimhood narrative

LOL. You are complaining and whining like a girl here all the time.

 

[Kaniska]

You bring Israeli hallucinations to distract from the topic of discussion of Jewish racist colonization in Israel.

What someone did elsewhere has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that racist Jews colonized Palestine.



We've been through this already. You need to open a dictionary and learn the meaning of 'ethnic cleansing' We are not discussing genocide, but ethnic cleansing, which is the forced removal of people based on their ethnicity -- which is what your racist compatriots did to the Arabs.

If I eject large numbers of blacks from New York State, it is still ethnic cleansing, regardless of the fact that the total number of blacks in the US may not be affected, or the number of remaining blacks within New York State increases over decades through birth.

No one, not even the Israeli government, denies this. And your credibility was shot to hell when you kept waffling between

"no Arabs left the area"
and
"the Arabs left voluntarily"
and
"others did it elsewhere, so don't blame racist Jews for doing it too"



It would not give us the right to forcefully eject and/or kill non-Muslims.

Your continued penchant to point at other racist colonizations throughout history to justify this latest example of Jewish racist colonization is amusing. You guys are so caught up in your own victimhood narrative that you can't recognize that you have become the racial supremacist monsters you complain about.



You've got the cart before the horse.

It is not Muslims, but the Zionist Jews who framed Israel as a religious issue in order to milk the Holocaust sympathy card, to leverage the anti-Semitism shield against criticisms, and to brainwash (almost) all Jews (and some Christians) into supporting Israel as a religious duty.

As part of their religious angle, the Zionists have had a policy from day one to demonize Arabs and Muslims. The reason they succeed is because Zionists dominate western media.

In any situation, what matters is not the facts but the propaganda. If a group of racist white migrants threw out the locals to create a 'white homeland', it would be condemned. If anyone else did it, they would be condemned. But when racist Jews do it, they are portrayed as the victims.

It's all about media domination.



That is not entirely true.

My support for Palestinians is because they are the victims of racist colonization.

The fact that the racist colonialists have decided to malign my religion as part of their propaganda campaign does inject a personal angle. but support for Palestinian rights is a humanitarian issue.

The racist colonialist Jews do not have any moral standing in this matter.

For a moment let us buy out your theory....If your support is for oppressed people, what is your stand about Tibet? China even done much more to Tiber people than Isreal. In Palestine issue, there is a huge uplroar over settling non muslims in Palestine zone...But in Tibet, China just changed demography of Tibet by continiously bringing Han population to Tibet...It is a forced occupation by China....Where do you stand in this regard?

 

[Kyoto]

Lol 500 Did the Palestinians evict themselves from East Jerusalem this year? Or leave their land which Israel decided to take as a buffer zone? How many of their own houses did Palestinians crush? Despicable Palestinians.

 

[ozzy22]

...



Now if you support Palestine people and you are so neutral and rationale in your mindset, then why do not you support separatist of Tibet people who are also fighting against the occupation of China to Tibet? How Palestine people are more privileged to get your support than the people of Tibet?...

If you ask me, i am very candid with my thought...my support to Palestine or its movement depends on how people of Palestine respect India and its issues...If Palestine supports India's stand on certain critical issues, I am with them...Otherwise, i am neutral and no opinion about them...

The reason for Muslims being vocal on this issue has more to do with Western bias and them allowing Israel to get away with actions (or in most cases facilitate them) that if anyone else did would be at least condemned. Which we definitely can’t say the same about Tibet where most of its support comes from the West and your logic seems to be if you don’t know or criticize everyone who’s being oppressed (even if you aren't aware of this oppression) then you have no right to criticize Israel which is a rather unrealistic/odd stance to have.

 

[IRAN 1802]