What does being a liberal mean?

[Verve]

I view Islam to be quite Liberal and liberalism was acknowledged way after Islam arrived but in its implementation it is very much derrived from Islamic values

1- Freedom eat 99.99% dishes may be 0.001% made haram complete liberalism to select what you eat
This is not example of conservatism when you can eat 99.99% goods on planet

2- Freedom to pray any time during 24 hours if you miss a prayer again lot of flexibility, very liberal view
Sure you shoud ideally pray on time but if you miss a prayer , you can make it up - seems liberal

3- There are 99.9% verious drinks available for Muslims to drink and may be just 0.001% haram , seems like
very liberal view in what people can drink , not conservative thought you have to drink water all the time.

4- Various laws that gave rights to women for property rights , marrige consent (yes/no) etc these are all
Liberal


If someone embarks on a immoral act , this is a act done under personal decision of a human and not necessarily reflects the religion


Example:
Islam states get married , show interest approach and sell your self as a good person


Now it is up to a person to decide how to implement that idea , obviously if they don't get married and disappear from picture (fun and run) , this has nothing to do with what the religion preaches , it is your own action (Personal Action) .


Example:
Islam clearly states do not kill another human , avoid that conflict (liberal view live and let live)

Now it is up to the individual person to implement that teaching , a person might go ahead , may end up killing someone in robbery or theft . So does that makes Islam less Liberal ?


Example:
As you know there are various exampe of Minority religion during time of Prophet , he would listen to court cases and decide justly with out bias being fair as possible (Seems like Liberal view to me)


Now if we have a Court Judge that can't solve Panama Case leak , so does that makes Islam less liberal ?

Islam is Islam, there's no need to draw any parallels. You do not need to categorise it in any other way. Doing so dilutes the true spirit of the message.

When you say it is liberal, you are indirectly planting the idea of Liberalism in a muslim. And Liberalism is against state religion which is in turn against the Quran.

Please be careful with your words. If you love Islam, don't categorise it in any other way.

 

[VCheng]

Those who truly understand Islam also know that it is indeed a liberal religion. A good Muslim who follows Muhammad PBUH is a liberal by definition.

 

[Hell hound]

Liberalism rejected the prevailing social and political norms of hereditary privilege, state religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The 17th-century philosopher John Locke is often credited with founding liberalism as a distinct philosophical tradition.

greek and rome were liberal when they introduced democracy in a monarch continent.no one founded the liberalism its not a static concept that can be found its a thought process that exists in the human mind since the birth of humanity what was liberal in the past might be considered conservative now because changes brought by time and technology.

@abdulbarijan @pak-marine @RoadRunner401 care to add something to the topic bros

 

[Verve]

Muhammad PBUH was the first liberal. He rejected the prevailing social and political norms of Mecca even before the Divine Revelation.

He S.A.W is the first Muslim. Liberal is one who believes in Liberalism, and Liberalism didn't exit then.

Soon you'll say that state of affairs of Madina were run according to liberalism and not Islam. Yes?

You carry on defining however you want. Only You'll be answerable for your words and actions at the end.

 

[Hell hound]

When you say it is liberal, you are indirectly planting the idea of Liberalism in a muslim. And Liberalism is against state religion which is in turn against the Quran.

for god sake who taught you this definition of the liberalism

 

[Verve]

Those who truly understand Islam also know that it is indeed a liberal religion. A good Muslim who follows Muhammad PBUH is a liberal by definition.

Islam is Islam. That's it.

You can however say that Liberalism took some aspects of Islam but not the other way around as concept of liberalism didn't exist in Mecca.

for god sake who taught you this definition of the liberalism

And who taught you that Islam is liberal when Islam is only Islam. Who taught you to start categorising it as liberal and whatnot.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Food for thought: disgusting that one would claim the Prophet S.A.W is a liberal when liberalism or the concept of it only came to being 1000yrs later and that also against the state religion!

Who started liberalism?
Liberalism rejected the prevailing social and political norms of hereditary privilege, state religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The 17th-century philosopher John Locke is often credited with founding liberalism as a distinct philosophical tradition.



You don't need to redefine Islam with a concept/tradition that was born 1000yrs later.

Define Islam as it instead of paint it with a colour of another tradition.

Well a person who is called "Rehmat" to world , is indeed the most liberal person in world because his Rehmat and blessing he brought was for all people of world


Liberalism may have been realized late in western society however Muslims started to see its benefits when Islam was introduced as many ideas of flexibility and simplicity were introduced in Islam

No one is asked to go out of their own comfort zone however it is not possible to deny the obvious Liberal mode of life as introduced in Islam

Core principles of Liberalism are originate in Islam

• Acceptance of Minorities
  
• Live and let live principles (You have your religion and they have theirs)
• Universal court and rulings for all residents equally
  
• Same crime punishment for all and no bias or protection on one group
• Flexibility in Praying , flexibility in location of prayer
• Emphasis on not enforcing forced conversions after war
• No killing of population after war (War crimes)
• Social care (orphan, widows , elderly etc)

 

[Verve]

Well a person who is called "Rehmat" to world , is indeed the most liberal person in world because his Rehmat and blessing he brought was for all people of world


Liberalism may have been realized late in western society however Muslims started to see its benefits when Islam was introduced as many ideas of flexibility and simplicity were introduced in Islam

Our Creator would have called it Liberalism but He did not. Our prescribed faith is called Islam. So let's not defy the name given by Him by describing and comparing it with anything else.

Also, find me the word 'liberal' in The Quran!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Principles of idelogy can be any , and can be called by various names
Only the wise can see the obvious prallels

Quran also does not have the words Al Qaida or ISIS , yet lunatics follow it

Personally don't find any problem using Liberism and Islam interchangably due to their similarities

Islam is a religion , and Liberalism is an idealogy political one.

If certain principles were taught to humans in Islam , and later another person stated similar views , it does not means something brand new was invented.

• Political Idealogy can drive from a religious source and Islam in itself is one of most open liberal religions.

 

[Verve]

Liberal mode of life as introduced in Islam

Core principles of Liberalism are originate in Islam

• Acceptance of Minorities
  
• Live and let live principles (You have your religion and they have theirs)
• Universal court and rulings for all residents equally
  
• Same crime punishment for all and no bias or protection on one group
• Flexibility in Praying , flexibility in location of prayer
• Emphasis on not enforcing forced conversions after war
• No killing of population after war (War crimes)
• Social care (orphan, widows , elderly etc)

Liberal mode of life <--- wow! Islam is the way of Life, and the Creator calls it Islam. It is man made categorisation that you have just done. This is no different than the division by sects!!!

End of times, it is this liberalism that will take over humanity where mosques will be empty and Islamic laws will not be followed.

As I said before, if you want to defy the Creator by calling Islam something else, then you carry on.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Liberal mode of life <--- wow! Islam is the way of Life, and the Creator calls it Islam. It is man made categorisation that you have just done.

End of times, it is this liberalism that will take over humanity where mosques will be empty and Islamic laws will not be followed.

As I said before, if you want to defy the Creator by calling Islam something else, then you carry on.

No Signs of End of times is when "People who say they are denfeders are infact the Opposites"

 

[Timur]

Those who truly understand Islam also know that it is indeed a liberal religion. A good Muslim who follows Muhammad PBUH is a liberal by definition.

liberal in islamic conditions.. if you look at what the western world calls liberal than it is unislamic..

libaral would mean you would have no problem with homosexuality, no problem with with zina, but a problem with islam as state religion a problem with a woman wearing hijab..

look at this ducument to see what is moderate and liberal for them

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2007/RAND_MG574.pdf

if you read this than you will come to the conclusion that what they descripe is an antimuslim..



edit: now I am categorized as radical muslim

 

[Verve]

No Signs of End of times is when "People who say they are denfeders are infact the Opposites"

As I've said before, anyone who twists and tries to make Islam what it is not is wrong. Be it the division in sects or turning it into a new Liberal Islam sect (that is being clearly attempted these days and here). Core Islamic laws are clearly stated in the Quran, and those are neither difficult to understand nor follow.

Quran also does not have the words Al Qaida or ISIS , yet lunatics follow it

Al Qaida/ISIS/TTP are on one end, and Liberals on the other end.

People here are calling Prophet S.A.W a liberal. Yet, he sentenced a sohabi to death after that sohabi repeatedly self-admitted to adultery. He S.A.W ignored him initially (as the adultery was done in private and that Allah will judge on things done in private) but when the sohabi insisted and disclosed his sin publicly (i.e. no longer keeping it private), he sentenced him to death. Is this what a liberal would do? If Madina state did not have Islamic laws imposed, then why was the sohabi sentenced to death?

@Hell hound @Syed.Ali.Haider ... answers to above 2 questions please!

 

[VCheng]

End of times, it is this liberalism that will take over humanity where mosques will be empty and Islamic laws will not be followed.

But, MashaAllah, the mosques are full and Islamic Laws are being enforced, for example:

https://defence.pk/threads/valentines-day-celebrations-banned-all-across-pakistan-ihc.477692/

(not to mention Blasphemy Laws.)

Therefore, there is no danger of the End of Times just yet.

 

[Hell hound]

As I've said before, anyone who twists and tries to make Islam what it is not is wrong. Be it the division in sects or turning it into a new Liberal Islam sect (that is being clearly attempted these days and here). Core Islamic laws are clearly stated in the Quran, and those are neither difficult to understand nor follow.



Al Qaida/ISIS/TTP are on one end, and Liberals on the other end.

People here are calling Prophet S.A.W a liberal. Yet, he sentenced a sohabi to death after that sohabi repeatedly self-admitted to adultery. He S.A.W ignored him initially (as the adultery was done in private and that Allah will judge on things done in private) but when the sohabi insisted and disclosed his sin publicly (i.e. no longer keeping it private), he sentenced him to death. Is this what a liberal would do? If Madina state did not have Islamic laws imposed, then why was the sohabi sentenced to death?

@Hell hound @Syed.Ali.Haider ... answers to above 2 questions please!

read my post # 138 hope you do get some answers you are looking for