What can bring India and Pakistan closer

[Khajur]

So, what's your excuse for hostile relations with Nepal, China, Burma, Bangaldesh, and Sri Lanka? Why is China finding it so easy to build that infamous string (noose) of pearls around you?

Its such an inane argument.

U know it well that indo pak hostility is legendary... we fought four war and were only few drastic measures away, on the part of india from fighting a new war after 26/11.

Which other neighbour had war with us expect china??
U got to admit that as big country we have too many big and small size neighbours.

For rest of countries like Nepal, Bangaldesh, and Sri Lanka ... let me tell u there millions of ppl from these countries who migrate to our cities to settle down and earn their livelihood.Nepali Gurkhas serve in our army.

They may have some grievance aganist us depending on local politics ,they are not security threat for us and if that continues, sooner than later india gonna address those grievance in a reasonable manner and more successfully as we expand our economy e,g we invited FM of Bangladesh to address their concerns of a dam being bulit in NE and will be kept in mind while constructing the dam.

 

[graphican]

Ultimatlely you guys are ingrates, when you wanted India , you got what you wanted, and now you guys are back stabbers. Obviously you will feel cowered by India owing to its size and economy. What is BD's problem with India, I still dont understand. As for reconciliation with Pakistan, forget it, even if we gave them Kashmir, they would consider that success and go ahead to cause more problems for Indai. As for BD, I think India should give them a hard kick in the *** and shut them up

You are good example to study why India has enemies all around it. Had India been able to solve its relations with this strategy, it must have "solved" them all but all India is able to achieve is Independent Bangladesh. .. and what a pity, the effectiveness of your hatred centered approach has proven yet again and even Bangladesh is not friendly nation to you anymore.

 

[gogbot]

Well the answer to the thread is self evident in that disputes have to be resolved or marginalized in some way, so Kashmir is always going to be part of the discussion.

But what we like to see in discussions are ways to move forward, and not just a regurgitation of standard positions of "Kashmir hamara hai' along the likes of those of the last poster.

Well this was what i was trying to say before in my earlier post but in a more cynical manner.

As long as people put Kashmir before everything else than there wont be any change in the India Pakistan relationship in the foreseeable future.

there is to much resentment on both sides especially the army. Many of whom have fought each other in the past. And still remember the events.

Neither side trusts each other at the moment so there can be no positive relations.
for starters Pakistan can help bring the Mumbai terrorists to justice.
And what do Pak want from India to show its trust ?

We first need to fill the trust void.

Also Please stop treating Indians as if they are all Hindus and also Anti Muslim.
There many in India who believe in our secular vision, and the words of "Jana Gana Mana" and Gandhi's Unfulfilled dream.
By generalizing everyone in India as Anti-Islamic fascists.
you are no better than those that say
every Pakistan is full of terrorists.

I am all for peaceful relations but Kashmir cannot be the first step on the agenda.
Instead try to make a long term goal for relations which is more realistic.

 

[Hulk]

Hi,
If one reads this thread end to end, he can figure out why we could not move forward with peace in this region. Moving forward means people leaving their egos and propose solution which open mind. Then discuss solutions keeping realities in mind. I do not see that happening here.

There are couple of people who raise question that India does not have good relations with anyone of its neighbor. I tell you the problem is clearly not with India (India is also part of problem). The problem is with south east asia, this region produces people with big egos and does not have the mentality of getting along with people. We often mix emotions with decision and this thread clearly confirms that. On the other side which nation does Pakistan has friendly relations with please help me know that. As per I know 2 major countries that borders Pakistan are India and Afghanistan. So it is easier to blame India, we guys. There are group of people around India who's bread and butter is spreading hatred against India (Zaid Hamid, Mr Munshi are few). This is typical mentality with people in this region, we also hate every government in all of our respective countries. So its typical mentality of people to hate the one who is in anyway seen as ruler or bigger partner. No matter what India does people will always find faults with India.

 

[IceCold]

Hi,
If one reads this thread end to end, he can figure out why we could not move forward with peace in this region. Moving forward means people leaving their egos and propose solution which open mind. Then discuss solutions keeping realities in mind. I do not see that happening here.

There are couple of people who raise question that India does not have good relations with anyone of its neighbor. I tell you the problem is clearly not with India (India is also part of problem). The problem is with south east asia, this region produces people with big egos and does not have the mentality of getting along with people. We often mix emotions with decision and this thread clearly confirms that. On the other side which nation does Pakistan has friendly relations with please help me know that. As per I know 2 major countries that borders Pakistan are India and Afghanistan. So it is easier to blame India, we guys. There are group of people around India who's bread and butter is spreading hatred against India (Zaid Hamid, Mr Munshi are few). This is typical mentality with people in this region, we also hate every government in all of our respective countries. So its typical mentality of people to hate the one who is in anyway seen as ruler or bigger partner. No matter what India does people will always find faults with India.

Before you act as Mr smart and very cleverly point everything towards others, just a hint go and follow the thread what can India do against another 26/11 and read the opinions of Indians there very single one of them. The sooner you guys let go your false sense of superiority and ego and sit down and talk in a rational manner rather then trying to dictate terms and calling disputed territories as your atoot aung, the better it would be for the whole region and we can work towards the development not just individually but collectively for the betterment of south asia.

 

[IceCold]

Well this was what i was trying to say before in my earlier post but in a more cynical manner.

As long as people put Kashmir before everything else than there wont be any change in the India Pakistan relationship in the foreseeable future.

there is to much resentment on both sides especially the army. Many of whom have fought each other in the past. And still remember the events.

Neither side trusts each other at the moment so there can be no positive relations.
for starters Pakistan can help bring the Mumbai terrorists to justice.
And what do Pak want from India to show its trust ?

We first need to fill the trust void.

Also Please stop treating Indians as if they are all Hindus and also Anti Muslim.
There many in India who believe in our secular vision, and the words of "Jana Gana Mana" and Gandhi's Unfulfilled dream.
By generalizing everyone in India as Anti-Islamic fascists.
you are no better than those that say
every Pakistan is full of terrorists.

I am all for peaceful relations but Kashmir cannot be the first step on the agenda.
Instead try to make a long term goal for relations which is more realistic.

Understand something Kashmir is the root cause of problems we all face today. You cant just forget the root cause and think of moving ahead because logic defies that. The root cause has to be eliminated before any progress can be made in moving ahead for the development and betterment of the whole region.

 

[Hulk]

Before you act as Mr smart and very cleverly point everything towards others, just a hint go and follow the thread what can India do against another 26/11 and read the opinions of Indians there very single one of them. The sooner you guys let go your false sense of superiority and ego and sit down and talk in a rational manner rather then trying to dictate terms and calling disputed territories as your atoot aung, the better it would be for the whole region and we can work towards the development not just individually but collectively for the betterment of south asia.

I wish you might have read my comments in full. I included India is everything that I said (India is also in South East asia). I also feel you obviously did not understood what psyche people of this region has, that's what I was trying to tell. Also this is second time someone is telling me what other Indians have written. I have no control over what my fellow countrymen writes, like your Pakistani friends we also have all sorts of people in our country. So my sincere request take my views as my views and do not include me with others. I had similar kinds of feeling in past which I used to share with my Indian friends but as time progressed I got to know more and got matured. I guess most people in this forum as college pass-outs or young and writes or suggest things which are not practical. IMO both Pakistan and India have to compromise from their stand.

About the other article the language of that was offensive against India, that we cannot do anything. It is this mentality of that makes some people think that they can take advantage. They should not forget that India can reply back in same coin, we are in progressive path and with time become more powerful then now.

 

[vsdoc]

The company you keep says a lot about you. It also tells us all we need to know about your visceral hatred of all things Pakistani.

Getting hot under the collar and getting personal (bigot etc.) just means I've got under your skin (again) and you have lost to ability to frame a coherent and robust rebuttal.

A trait you have exhibited more than once before with your blah blah and flag waving and troll denouncing antics.

In short, knock yourself out Gracie.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Developereo]

Getting hot under the collar and getting personal (bigot etc.) just means I've got under your skin (again) and you have lost to ability to frame a coherent and robust rebuttal.

A trait you have exhibited more than once before with your blah blah and flag waving and troll denouncing antics.

In short, knock yourself out Gracie.

Cheers, Doc

I am exceedingly cool and quite enjoy tweaking bloviating windbags who are long on rants and short on substance. And I never called you a bigot. I said, by your own admission, you hang out with and get your information from bigots who harbor pathological hatred for Pakistanis.

Btw, I see you are still smarting from my Gracie comment of almost two months ago...
No worries. At least you are showing progress by trying to get over the head-in-the-sand joke

I see you have nothing to contribute to the topic.
As usual.

 

[FireFighter]

Nothing but a cup of Chai.


Can we all agree to this at least?

 

[vsdoc]

bloviating

Is this your Rapidex word of the day?

windbags who are long on rants and short on substance.

Does your machine face a mirror?

And I never called you a bigot. I said, by your own admission, you hang out with and get your information from bigots who harbor pathological hatred for Pakistanis.

Well, not that i feel the need to explain my choice of friends to a cyber ID on my computer screen, but he is a friend not because he is a Balochi but he is one kick *** rider puppy who I enjoy riding with. I used his example as an anecdotal reference to the sentiments of balochis towards pakistan and pakistanis, much as many of you with so called "kashmiri" friends like to do the same with regard to their sentiments towards India and Indians. And in a toss up between a bigot friend and a holier-than-thou judgemental whipped pakistani, take a wild guess who I woud prefer to hang out with.

I see you have nothing to contribute to the topic.
As usual.

Jee hazoor.

Cheers, Doc

P.S. I just spoke to balochi bigot on the phone ..... he wants me to ask you whether you are Pashtun or Punjabi ..... he has a side bet going on Punjabi.

 

[EjazR]

A wrong start can never ever have a right end.

The article starts by admitting that most Indians have a blinkered view of Pakistan especially when it comes to foreign policy and they don't appreciate the different roles played by various actors in Pakistani politics. Isn't that a valid start?

You can go through the summary I posted earlier here http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...bring-india-pakistan-closer-7.html#post494381

 

[EjazR]

Ok, going back to the topic, and keeping in mind that Kashmir resolution is important, would'nt it be possible to tackle other issues simultanesouly or before Kashmir is resolved?

I am talking about trade, cultural relations, cricket matches e.t.c

Also, some members are saying that terrorism in India is because of Kashmir. I have to disagree because if you look at manifestos and statements of LeT e.t.c. They talk about attacking India itself, so even if Kashmir is resolved, they will continue unless they are stopped right now. Mumbai was an example where their demands made had nothing to do with Kashmir. While their specific target was to inflame Hindu-Muslim relations by claiming to be from the "Deccan". So tackling terrorist outfits like these has to be a priority even before Kashmir resolution

 

[Developereo]

Is this your Rapidex word of the day?

Never used one (whatever that is!).
The use of the identical term in both contexts was intentional -- precisely to make the connection.

not that i feel the need to explain my choice of friends

My good man, I honestly don't give a r_t's a_s (that's rodent's posterior in your Rapidex ) how you pick your friends, except inasmuch as it sheds light on where you get your visceral hatred of Pakistanis and Muslims.

P.S. I just spoke to balochi bigot on the phone ..... he wants me to ask you whether you are Pashtun or Punjabi ..... he has a side bet going on Punjabi.

And now a cheap jab at Pashtuns and Punjabis! (I am neither.)
Sad.
As much as I enjoy watching your desperate flailings, with an almost clinical fascination, I do not associate with people who think in terms of such generalizations and stereotypes.

This conversation is terminated.


Getting back on topic, I think India and Pakistan can normalize relations up to a point, post Kashmir but, as I indicated in my earlier post, the biggest obstacle remains India's attitudinal problem. India wants to dominate the relationship from a position of strength and arrogance; Pakistan wants a more amicable and mutually respectful relationship. This problem permeates India's relationship with all her neighbors, not just Pakistan.

Also, terrorism can never be 100% eradicated. Even the US is unable to do that. The best we can hope is mutual trust and cooperation to contain the threat to a tolerable level.

 

[vsdoc]

My good man ..... rodent's posterior ..... friends ..... Pakistanis .....

Dude seriously, your closet fascination with animal behind's aside, this is a defense forum, so could you spare us your weird fantasies please?

Getting back on topic, I think India and Pakistan can normalize relations up to a point, post Kashmir but, as I indicated in my earlier post, the biggest obstacle remains India's attitudinal problem. India wants to dominate the relationship from a position of strength and arrogance; Pakistan wants a more amicable and mutually respectful relationship. This problem permeates India's relationship with all her neighbors, not just Pakistan.

Attitude has nothing to do with it. As said before, Pakistan should stop fingering and concentrate within. India can do without any relationship for the time being ..... as is amply evident on the world stage. You are the ones constantly talking about resuming dialogue. When will you get the hint?

Also, terrorism can never be 100% eradicated.

That's pretty convenient isn't it? Shades of Kargil, Kashmir and Mumbai? It is the lowest point in a soldier's life when his sacrifice is not even recognised by the country he died for.

Cheers, Doc