What an Indian saw inside the Pakistan Army headquarters

[FuturePAF]

@MastanKhan

I don't want to antagonize you but current events are illustrating my point, we can have the force you propose, and not have to do direct fighting to get it, such as de-mining work.

Saudi Arabia plans to spend $250 Billion to rebuild Syria (or be "forced' to spend through back channels by Trump, along with UAE and other nations); Pakistani Troops can protect the Saudi backed efforts outside of Damascus's control with 10,000's of troops. While not fighting directly, the rebuilding process will be long and peacekeeping missions can last years if not decades. Equipping these forces with modern equipment, and protecting it with a no fly zone (equipping the Pakistani Air Force) will also block Iran from moving military equipment which is a big plus for Saudi Arabia's interests and the west's.

Out of $250 Billion; $25 billion to equip and pay for a 100,000 Pakistani (and probably Egyptian; because tey need the money too) Troops shouldn't be a big deal for the Saudi to fund for the next 3-5 years at the very least.

They could Gift the PAF a few dozen RSAF Eurofighters, Leopard 2 Tanks, 1000' of MRAPs, dozens of Apaches, as well as Chinooks, and Black Hawks. (All of this from their inventories and the $110 Arms Deal from the US)
https://www.rt.com/news/german-tanks-saudi-arabia-010/

The best part would be as a "Peacekeeping Force" they would protecting civilians and therefore get West Support. It would look good internationally, and help in rebuilding Pakistan's Image.

Also the corridor created would be a direct route for Saudi/Gulf Oil and Gas to Europe and thereby compete with Russian Exports more quickly then conventional shipping.

Similarly, a Pakistani "Peacekeeping" Force in Yemen can secure that vital port, that has a truce. That port as well as a military air/naval base on Socotra Island, Pakistan can supply aid to locals, and patrol a safe zone for civilians. Pakistani Force can hot pursuit forces that threaten the sanctuary city, and expand the perimeter as needed. This is a way to create a siege of rebel areas, so they will eventually come to the bargaining table. Pakistan can be provided the funds to buy/build the Type 054A and Milgem/Ada Frigtes it will need to ensure a smooth flow of resources to these ports, and the army will get the equipment as mentioned above for Syria to protect it. How long can the rebels hold out if the PN is patrolling the coasts and intercept any ships entering those waters. These terms will also get western backing not just from governments but the people, as it has diplomatic cover of a "Peacekeeping mission"; Very specific rules of engagements and a clear mission (siege warfare) ; not over extension into the enemy's trap as has been happening for the last 3 years.

21:10; The idea of a "Pan-Arab" peacekeeping force was considered this year by Trump, and he may be able to force the Saudis to pay for it.

 

[The Accountant]

@MastanKhan

I don't want to antagonize you but current events are illustrating my point, we can have the force you propose, and not have to do direct fighting to get it, such as de-mining work.

Saudi Arabia plans to spend $250 Billion to rebuild Syria (or be "forced' to spend through back channels by Trump, along with UAE and other nations); Pakistani Troops can protect the Saudi backed efforts outside of Damascus's control with 10,000's of troops. While not fighting directly, the rebuilding process will be long and peacekeeping missions can last years if not decades. Equipping these forces with modern equipment, and protecting it with a no fly zone (equipping the Pakistani Air Force) will also block Iran from moving military equipment which is a big plus for Saudi Arabia's interests and the west's.

Out of $250 Billion; $25 billion to equip and pay for a 100,000 Pakistani (and probably Egyptian; because tey need the money too) Troops shouldn't be a big deal for the Saudi to fund for the next 3-5 years at the very least.

They could Gift the PAF a few dozen RSAF Eurofighters, Leopard 2 Tanks, 1000' of MRAPs, dozens of Apaches, as well as Chinooks, and Black Hawks. (All of this from their inventories and the $110 Arms Deal from the US)
https://www.rt.com/news/german-tanks-saudi-arabia-010/

The best part would be as a "Peacekeeping Force" they would protecting civilians and therefore get West Support. It would look good internationally, and help in rebuilding Pakistan's Image.

Also the corridor created would be a direct route for Saudi/Gulf Oil and Gas to Europe and thereby compete with Russian Exports more quickly then conventional shipping.

Similarly, a Pakistani "Peacekeeping" Force in Yemen can secure that vital port, that has a truce. That port as well as a military air/naval base on Socotra Island, Pakistan can supply aid to locals, and patrol a safe zone for civilians. Pakistani Force can hot pursuit forces that threaten the sanctuary city, and expand the perimeter as needed. This is a way to create a siege of rebel areas, so they will eventually come to the bargaining table. Pakistan can be provided the funds to buy/build the Type 054A and Milgem/Ada Frigtes it will need to ensure a smooth flow of resources to these ports, and the army will get the equipment as mentioned above for Syria to protect it. How long can the rebels hold out if the PN is patrolling the coasts and intercept any ships entering those waters. These terms will also get western backing not just from governments but the people, as it has diplomatic cover of a "Peacekeeping mission"; Very specific rules of engagements and a clear mission (siege warfare) ; not over extension into the enemy's trap as has been happening for the last 3 years.

21:10; The idea of a "Pan-Arab" peacekeeping force was considered this year by Trump, and he may be able to force the Saudis to pay for it.

Middle east right now is a burning volcano ... it will errupt to do more damage ... what u r suggesting is to help saudis repair volcano ... this is not possible ... there should be a diplomatic solution to syria ... empowering the people of land is the way out and not sending more military people out there ... if Pakistan's enter with a mandate of saudia why would iran will not work against Pakistan ? What to do against kurd ? Supporting them will be working against turk and fighting them will bring bloodhsed ...

Its better to keep yourselves saving saudia and not involving in other countries directky ...

 

[FuturePAF]

Middle east right now is a burning volcano ... it will errupt to do more damage ... what u r suggesting is to help saudis repair volcano ... this is not possible ... there should be a diplomatic solution to syria ... empowering the people of land is the way out and not sending more military people out there ... if Pakistan's enter with a mandate of saudia why would iran will not work against Pakistan ? What to do against kurd ? Supporting them will be working against turk and fighting them will bring bloodhsed ...

Its better to keep yourselves saving saudia and not involving in other countries directky ...

Pakistan has done UN backed Peacekeeping Missions before, this would just be a larger version of the same. Turkey has the backing of a Council of local Tribes for their planned operation. Jordan, Saudi, and Pakistan can do the same, especially if it is to protect reconstruction. That is the key. Protecting reconstruction while the locals focus on rebuilding. Its definitely risky, but the lines in Syria are starting to settle among the major powers.

Back Channel negotiating can iron out the terms among the countries with vested interests, so all sides know what Pakistani troops are there for. $250 Billion reconstruction project is a huge undertaking that will need to be protected. better Pakistan get a piece of it before others set in.

 

[The Accountant]

Pakistan has done UN backed Peacekeeping Missions before, this would just be a larger version of the same. Turkey has the backing of a Council of local Tribes for their planned operation. Jordan, Saudi, and Pakistan can do the same, especially if it is to protect reconstruction. That is the key. Protecting reconstruction while the locals focus on rebuilding. Its definitely risky, but the lines in Syria are starting to settle among the major powers.

Back Channel negotiating can iron out the terms among the countries with vested interests, so all sides know what Pakistani troops are there for. $250 Billion reconstruction project is a huge undertaking that will need to be protected. better Pakistan get a piece of it before others set in.

A un-backed mission was different ... They had backing from the world and was mostly against local groups and local militia ... The Middle East is a totally different ball game ... It's all international game ... Name a big power not involved in this conflict except China?

If you enter you have to deal with US, KSA (including all gulf and Sunni Islamic state and their support groups), Iran (including all Shia estate and their supported groups), Russia, Turkey, Israel, Nato, and Egypt ...

You want Pakistan to enter this for mere few Dollars ... Don't we learned that whenever elephant fights its the ant that will suffer the most ...

We are a tiny nation with struggling economy ... We need a good economic relationship with all countries to stabilize our economy ... We should stop acting like a security state or regional power till we get our economy inline otherwise we will be doomed ...

We should learn our lesson from Afghanistan war,,, we got 33 billion dollars at a cost of hundreds of dollars and decline in economic growth as well ...

 

[RAMPAGE]

Couple of points:

1. Why limit to Kashmir alone? Why not extend to the whole of border with multiple points enabling flow of goods, services and people, thereby enabling a better understanding, better prosperity and time to strengthen the same which can actually lead to settlement of outstanding issues?

2. For trade, what stops Pakistan from granting MFN to India? There are lots of items that Pakistan can actually export just over the border rather than anywhere else in the world.

3. Would not giving peace a chance in valley, wherein a Kashmiri can get educated, work to earn the proverbial bread for his family and hope for peace and prosperity be a better policy to look after the interests of the Kashmiris as opposed to continuation of strife wherein bandhs of days at a stretch are called for by the separatists, thereby leaving the poor Kashmiri no choice but to wield a gun or a rock, to earn money to feed his family?

4. Do you not think that maybe what we see in Europe today, as a result of socio-economic development and prosperity, can be replicated in our context?




Sir.

It was your tag, so came. Yes, the member has a refreshing approach. Let me tag @saiyan0321 , @salarsikander and @RAMPAGE too

Regards

I would only like to point out that what we see in Europe today is not merely a result of socio-economic development. In my opinion, If there is one thing that unites Europe, it is their culture - high art for the most part. Their centuries-old aspiration to achieve the Greco-Roman ideal, and all the magnificence which this ambition gave birth to. I wonder if @Joe Shearer agrees.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I would only like to point out that what we see in Europe today is not merely a result of socio-economic development. In my opinion, If there is one thing that unites Europe, it is their culture - high art for the most part. Their centuries-old aspiration to achieve the Greco-Roman ideal, and all the magnificence which this ambition gave birth to. I wonder if @Joe Shearer agrees.

Most decidedly so. Trust @RAMPAGE to remind us of this vital factor.

 

[truthseer]

Is this really true? This is very, very different from my experience with what I've seen in Pakistan Navy, where I can confidently say I know one person (COMKAR) who talked to everyone from lowly officer to superior in same, polite tone. Rest there was a class difference between top and bottom, and everyone knew their place.

I can't even say it's a bad thing, because in war, you need to trust your command and obey it.

 

[dBSPL]

@FuturePAF

Sir, Pakistan's involvement in the Syrian issue is not possible in the existing regional balances. Even if there is such an opportunity, It is not possible for Pakistan to be able to leave without being damaged of its global interests or losing one(or most of them) of its friends. With its current situation.

Iran and KSA are in two completely different camps on Syria. But in another aspect, the Arab states are preparing for a new Assad initiative. Relationships will get a lot more complicated. It's a very mined field. But the Syrian issue is not a double sided issue. It has an intricate and complex structure with multilateral and global actors, regional players and proxy elements.

In another corner, perspective of the energy corridor that you mentioned collapsed completely in 2015. This was an illusion actually set out to use Turkey as a front. The fact that Davutoglu's vision was so cheap that it would not be able to see the results of this project supported by the US and gulf capital came to be a threat to the country's survival.

Then there was a coup attempt in Turkey. (In fact, the right word is the attempt to create civil war by gladio) The official records show that the Turkish army was ordered to withdraw to barracks from risky areas and orders was barred at the last moment. On the other side of the border that night there were about thousands of terrorist elements in preparation for the operation. A few months after the coup attempt, Turkey has begun cross-border operations. Desired terror corridor was stopped With 3-phase plan. I don't write in detail because they aren't part of the subject, but we should know that there's not just black and white. In fact, everyone is in the contrast.

I called for a massive pakistani strike force in the region---and not a peace keeper type force---. A total independant military for the gulf region commanded by a pakistani general and general staff---.

This is definitely the right approach.

The completion of strategic capabilities with conventional elements and the preparation of a common doctrinal infrastructure with the concept of power projection, is in fact the main factor that broadens the line of defense for the country.

Pakistan's NFU and strategic strike capabilities with its Nuclear Deterrence can be a leverage for the political field you are talking about. Although there are many economic and political obstacles, I believe that this type of structuring is still possible.

A multipolar world is forming, which will create opportunities for each regional powers in terms of impact.

As far as I know, Pakistani officers assume an active and important role within the army of many gulf countries, especially KSA. I don't want to be misunderstood, but Pakistan sells its capabilities very cheaply.

 

[MastanKhan]

As far as I know, Pakistani officers assume an active and important role within the army of many gulf countries, especially KSA. I don't want to be misunderstood, but Pakistan sells its capabilities very cheaply.

Hi,

You are clear as daylight on a bright sunny day---. The reason here is that the pakistanis are clueless to what is at stake---.

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

You are clear as daylight on a bright sunny day---. The reason here is that the pakistanis are clueless to what is at stake---.

Frustrated old man!

 

[Signalian]

Hi,

Sensible /secure / thoughtful / considerate decisions don't don't build the fortunes of a nation.

Outrageous / courageous / harsh / hard decisions bring results---.

Fortunes of successful nations of are built of taking advantage at the right moment---.

Yemen was the perfect war for pak military---the opponent was small---the money was there to fund the war to build multiple battle groups---.

The supporter of the Yemen rebels is a pariah nation---.

It was the PERFECT opportunity for pak military to expand its strength with the approval of world superpowers---.

How stupid was Gen Raheel Sharif to not take advantage if it---it is beyond words to explain---.

In past few months, I rarely venture into the illustrious adventure of stirring a hornets nest because most of the time i have an adequate idea what will come back to hit, but here i am again walking down the road which leads me towards the quagmire of a debate which pretty much remain static on both ends.

Lets go back to 2014.

Op Zarb e Azab had started in the wake of the attack on Jinnah Airport in Karachi. Roughly 25000 troops deployed on the western border including Paramilitary, Police, SF(SSG, SSW, SSG N), PAF and MI/ISI/CMI/IB. The restive situation inside cities of Pakistan still in turmoil and the local Police deployed everywhere with a chance of a threat anywhere and everywhere.

End of 2014, a massacre of innocent children takes place in Army Public School. The worst school tragedy in the history of Pakistan. Every Pakistani institution comes into swing; media, Society, Journalists, liberals, conservatives, NGO's, Military, Government, Political parties; everyone. Somehow, this malicious incident brings everyone together and unites every Pakistani on one platform. It reminds us that truly when one part of the body suffers, the whole body feels the pain.

The Intel Operations inside the cities and rural area intensify, the Ops in the western region intensifies. The battles for Op Z-e-Azb are not over, the troops are already fighting everyday since last 6 months continuously on this fresh offensive but still PA, PAF and some cadres of PN immediately go on another offensive. Bear in mind that PA has persistently kept its active, alert and battle-ready presence in three areas of Pakistani territory all the time, PA cannot move its troops from these areas;
1. LOC
2. Western Border (WB) WOT
3. Desert

LOC and WB are hot borders, the situation can escalate any time and there are firing incidents almost everyday. The supplies, logistics, convoy movement and military activity is in full swing in these two sectors. Field Commanders are reporting to senior commanders almost everyday, briefings twice or thrice a week depending upon the situation. PAF has its multi-role squadrons active in Ops taking place on the western border, its not just the fighter squadrons; UAV/UCAV , air lift (fixed wing and rotary) and SIGINT (converted C-130) assets are also taking part. The PN has another responsibility on its shoulders, Gwadar Port is coming up and almost operational. PN has now crucial responsibility on both the eastern and western sides of the coast.

2015 starts; Saudi led coalition starts its Ops in March 2015 in Yemen and starts asking for allied nations to come forward and take part in its war against Yemen. This is three-four months after attack on Children school in Peshawar. Now i can go ahead and ask where was a Muslim led coalition when Pakistan was being attacked on western border but let that rest a while for another discussion. The picture after 2015 is infront of us of fatalities in Pakistan due to terrorism incidents:

Year: 2014 Fatalities: 1781
Year: 2015 Fatalities: 940
Year: 2016 Fatalities: 612
Year: 2017 Fatalities: 540
Year :2018 Fatalities: 368

Do you see the dwindling numbers ? These numbers are going down every year. Sending troops outside the country would not have brought such figures.

If Ex-COAS R.S. would have made a commitment to send troops to KSA led war, who would have volunteered to go and take part in a war on foreign soil which doesnt hold interests of Pakistan apart from aid, when own country is still bathing in bloodshed and needs troops more than ever? Which commander would have given thought to go and lead troops in Yemen rather than leading troops in valleys of Western Pakistan or LOC ? From where will the troops be pulled out to go and fight war in yemen? You could argue; the UN Mission. Bear in mind, the troops going on UN missions has decreased since 2005. CTF-150/151 contingent is a token force. The troops needed to go to KSA on rotation has recently decreased also. The Pakistani Public would have reacted strongly against the opinion of sending troops in a foreign war. A media war would have erupted which would have maligned the image of PA and GOP badly. Unity was required at such critical times, not an internal war.

Pakistan has already two active fronts open; WOT and LOC. A third active front would have been opened, had Pakistan sent troops to Yemen. This would mean Infantry, Armor, Aviation, Logistics, Artillery and Air Defence. KSA would have expected such force to grow from a Brigade to Division strength within 6 months and then would have demanded PAF to join in on air strikes also. PA couldn't move formations in Sindh and southern Punjab (desert), PA LOC formations are static in Kashmir and parts of KPK/Punjab, PA formations in KPK and Baluchistan are taking part in WOT, the northern reserve infantry formations are deployed on rotation in swat and KPK. Let me break it down for you:

1st Armored Division: Strike / Desert corridor
6th Armored Division: Strike / Northern Reserve Tank formation

25th Mechanised: Desert corridor
26th Mechanised: Desert corridor

7th ID: WOT
8th ID: Northern Corridor (part WOT)
9th ID: WOT
10th ID: Lahore Border. Reportedly Uncommitted
11th ID: Lahore Border. Reportedly Uncommitted
12th ID: LOC
14th ID: Southern Punjab + WOT
15th ID: Northern Corridor (part WOT)
16th ID: Desert Corridor
17th ID: Northern reserve + WOT (Swat)
18th ID: Desert Corridor
19th ID: LOC
23rd ID: LOC
33rd ID: WOT
34th LID: WOT + Gwadar
35th ID: Desert Corridor
37th ID: Northern reserve + WOT (Swat)
40th ID: Punjab + WOT
41st ID: WOT
FCNA: LOC

The independent Infantry and Armor brigades are supporting the Divisional formations in their respective regions and Ops. Parts of Artillery and Air Defence Divisions are also taking part in WOT. The aviation assets are in full swing on the western border. FC in west is completely deployed on WOT/Border while Rangers are tasked routinely to take part in AT Ops with Police on IBO's. The local Police is deployed in pickets all around cities and towns apart from local crime handling. It would have been a daunting task to commit more troops to launch a new offensive and troops from IV Corps (10th and 11th ID) would have to be diluted from Lahore border.

Pakistani troops getting killed inside Pakistan for survival of Pakistan and outside Pakistan for survival of KSA legacy, how would you justify the sacrifice of men to pour in money for more weapons and new aircrafts. PA 34 LID was formed and almost 90% of this formation (12,000+) got committed straightaway in protecting Gwadar, convoy routes and taking part in WOT. This is a clear proof that troops are required inside Pakistan, for the survival of Pakistan. PA opened 4th Batt in PMA and increased officer intake. Its not easy to replace KIA with trained and experienced troops straightaway.

I could also argue that Iran is next door and Iran could have intensified its friendship with India over a move of Pakistan to aid KSA troops, however we have seen recently Irani military visiting Pakistan regularly since past couple of years. Pakistan stands confidently infront of its neighbor Iran rather than giving explanations why it sent troops to Yemen for KSA.

In the end, a retired Raheel Shareef himself agreed to lead the kSA led coalition. One might say he is selfish, he thought for himself and not for the country since a lot of aid could have poured inside Pakistan. On a flip side, he also saved Pakistani troops lives from getting wasted in yemen war and deployed them accordingly to rid the nation of terror scum in the need of the hour, i posted stats that show he brought down terrorism causalities in Pakistan.

I am very well aware that i will never be able to shift your POV, yet i just put forward my 2 cents.

 

[MastanKhan]

In past few months, I rarely venture into the illustrious adventure of stirring a hornets nest because most of the time i have an adequate idea what will come back to hit, but here i am again walking down the road which leads me towards the quagmire of a debate which pretty much remain static on both ends.

Lets go back to 2014.

Op Zarb e Azab had started in the wake of the attack on Jinnah Airport in Karachi. Roughly 25000 troops deployed on the western border including Paramilitary, Police, SF(SSG, SSW, SSG N), PAF and MI/ISI/CMI/IB. The restive situation inside cities of Pakistan still in turmoil and the local Police deployed everywhere with a chance of a threat anywhere and everywhere.

End of 2014, a massacre of innocent children takes place in Army Public School. The worst school tragedy in the history of Pakistan. Every Pakistani institution comes into swing; media, Society, Journalists, liberals, conservatives, NGO's, Military, Government, Political parties; everyone. Somehow, this malicious incident brings everyone together and unites every Pakistani on one platform. It reminds us that truly when one part of the body suffers, the whole body feels the pain.

The Intel Operations inside the cities and rural area intensify, the Ops in the western region intensifies. The battles for Op Z-e-Azb are not over, the troops are already fighting everyday since last 6 months continuously on this fresh offensive but still PA, PAF and some cadres of PN immediately go on another offensive. Bear in mind that PA has persistently kept its active, alert and battle-ready presence in three areas of Pakistani territory all the time, PA cannot move its troops from these areas;
1. LOC
2. Western Border (WB) WOT
3. Desert

LOC and WB are hot borders, the situation can escalate any time and there are firing incidents almost everyday. The supplies, logistics, convoy movement and military activity is in full swing in these two sectors. Field Commanders are reporting to senior commanders almost everyday, briefings twice or thrice a week depending upon the situation. PAF has its multi-role squadrons active in Ops taking place on the western border, its not just the fighter squadrons; UAV/UCAV , air lift (fixed wing and rotary) and SIGINT (converted C-130) assets are also taking part. The PN has another responsibility on its shoulders, Gwadar Port is coming up and almost operational. PN has now crucial responsibility on both the eastern and western sides of the coast.

2015 starts; Saudi led coalition starts its Ops in March 2015 in Yemen and starts asking for allied nations to come forward and take part in its war against Yemen. This is three-four months after attack on Children school in Peshawar. Now i can go ahead and ask where was a Muslim led coalition when Pakistan was being attacked on western border but let that rest a while for another discussion. The picture after 2015 is infront of us of fatalities in Pakistan due to terrorism incidents:

Year: 2014 Fatalities: 1781
Year: 2015 Fatalities: 940
Year: 2016 Fatalities: 612
Year: 2017 Fatalities: 540
Year :2018 Fatalities: 368

Do you see the dwindling numbers ? These numbers are going down every year. Sending troops outside the country would not have brought such figures.

If Ex-COAS R.S. would have made a commitment to send troops to KSA led war, who would have volunteered to go and take part in a war on foreign soil which doesnt hold interests of Pakistan apart from aid, when own country is still bathing in bloodshed and needs troops more than ever? Which commander would have given thought to go and lead troops in Yemen rather than leading troops in valleys of Western Pakistan or LOC ? From where will the troops be pulled out to go and fight war in yemen? You could argue; the UN Mission. Bear in mind, the troops going on UN missions has decreased since 2005. CTF-150/151 contingent is a token force. The troops needed to go to KSA on rotation has recently decreased also. The Pakistani Public would have reacted strongly against the opinion of sending troops in a foreign war. A media war would have erupted which would have maligned the image of PA and GOP badly. Unity was required at such critical times, not an internal war.

Pakistan has already two active fronts open; WOT and LOC. A third active front would have been opened, had Pakistan sent troops to Yemen. This would mean Infantry, Armor, Aviation, Logistics, Artillery and Air Defence. KSA would have expected such force to grow from a Brigade to Division strength within 6 months and then would have demanded PAF to join in on air strikes also. PA couldn't move formations in Sindh and southern Punjab (desert), PA LOC formations are static in Kashmir and parts of KPK/Punjab, PA formations in KPK and Baluchistan are taking part in WOT, the northern reserve infantry formations are deployed on rotation in swat and KPK. Let me break it down for you:

1st Armored Division: Strike / Desert corridor
6th Armored Division: Strike / Northern Reserve Tank formation

25th Mechanised: Desert corridor
26th Mechanised: Desert corridor

7th ID: WOT
8th ID: Northern Corridor (part WOT)
9th ID: WOT
10th ID: Lahore Border. Reportedly Uncommitted
11th ID: Lahore Border. Reportedly Uncommitted
12th ID: LOC
14th ID: Southern Punjab + WOT
15th ID: Northern Corridor (part WOT)
16th ID: Desert Corridor
17th ID: Northern reserve + WOT (Swat)
18th ID: Desert Corridor
19th ID: LOC
23rd ID: LOC
33rd ID: WOT
34th LID: WOT + Gwadar
35th ID: Desert Corridor
37th ID: Northern reserve + WOT (Swat)
40th ID: Punjab + WOT
41st ID: WOT
FCNA: LOC

The independent Infantry and Armor brigades are supporting the Divisional formations in their respective regions and Ops. Parts of Artillery and Air Defence Divisions are also taking part in WOT. The aviation assets are in full swing on the western border. FC in west is completely deployed on WOT/Border while Rangers are tasked routinely to take part in AT Ops with Police on IBO's. The local Police is deployed in pickets all around cities and towns apart from local crime handling. It would have been a daunting task to commit more troops to launch a new offensive and troops from IV Corps (10th and 11th ID) would have to be diluted from Lahore border.

Pakistani troops getting killed inside Pakistan for survival of Pakistan and outside Pakistan for survival of KSA legacy, how would you justify the sacrifice of men to pour in money for more weapons and new aircrafts. PA 34 LID was formed and almost 90% of this formation (12,000+) got committed straightaway in protecting Gwadar, convoy routes and taking part in WOT. This is a clear proof that troops are required inside Pakistan, for the survival of Pakistan. PA opened 4th Batt in PMA and increased officer intake. Its not easy to replace KIA with trained and experienced troops straightaway.

I could also argue that Iran is next door and Iran could have intensified its friendship with India over a move of Pakistan to aid KSA troops, however we have seen recently Irani military visiting Pakistan regularly since past couple of years. Pakistan stands confidently infront of its neighbor Iran rather than giving explanations why it sent troops to Yemen for KSA.

In the end, a retired Raheel Shareef himself agreed to lead the kSA led coalition. One might say he is selfish, he thought for himself and not for the country since a lot of aid could have poured inside Pakistan. On a flip side, he also saved Pakistani troops lives from getting wasted in yemen war and deployed them accordingly to rid the nation of terror scum in the need of the hour, i posted stats that show he brought down terrorism causalities in Pakistan.

I am very well aware that i will never be able to shift your POV, yet i just put forward my 2 cents.

Hi,

The aggression of India would would not be there---. India would not have the courage to pi-ss of the saudis and emiratis---.

One very nice and easy way was to ask the emiratis and the saudis to post 2 sqdrn's each of the BLK60 and F15's each at Shahbaz and sargodha for excercizes---on long term basis---.

The start up of troops would be with 50K troops---a base established at Gwadar / Pasni for future troop training on fastrak---. Pull back recently retd officers and soldiers---.

The fruit is on the branches---not on the trunk of the tree---even though the trunk of the tree is the securest most place---.

Fortunes of nations are not built on being secure---.

There was no reason for pakistan to make explanation to Iran---. Has Iran ever exlained why it instigated the yemeni shias for an uprising against the state and supplied them with weapons---.

India would not be a party to Iran at the wrath of the saudis and emiratis if Pak military had gone into the gulf states---. With a base in Oman---the flank of the indians would be open to pakistan---India had nowhere to go---.

Hi,

Crisis in Yemen---Isis in syria and Iraq was an extremely tense time in the Emirates---Oman---Qatar---Saudia---Qatar---Kuwait---.

If pak had posted troops in the gulf countries---just one meeting with the Indian ambassador to emirates by the emirati Amir was needed with a warning---any strike in pakistan from across the LOC---all the indian expats would be sent packing back to india---.

Pakistan had India by the ballz---it had the western world by the ballz as well---when the western powers were ok with pak military taking charge of yemen crisis---.

Pakistanis just simply did not know to market themselves---otherwise the western world would have wilfully agreed to have have a 100K---150 pak military permanently just for the gulf states---and that apart from the pak military in pakistan---.

 

[Zarvan]

@Horus @Path-Finder @MastanKhan

 

[Path-Finder]

View attachment 529409

@Horus @Path-Finder @MastanKhan

Muffakir have you read it?

 

[Zarvan]

Muffakir have you read it?

No but planning to buy I just saw today on twitter and realized book has been launched so would visit Emporium tomorrow and find out if book is available or not.