West Bengal name change to "Bangla" and Bangladesh's national anthem dilemma

[kobiraaz]

From the comments (hehe):

I'm also born muslim, now atheist and learning about Hinduism. There is no one to guide me, but i'm striving hard to learn Hinduism because of its beauty and peaceful nature.

Funny that People are reading Youtube comments these Days. Too much time in hand

Many of your fellow compatriots do not get their previous and continuing Hindu heritage. That was directed towards them. If you understand it, I got no issue with it.



And did the racial attitude go away? It didn't....because it was never part of the theological structure of Hinduism....rather the practical deficiencies of people that implemented what underlies the human psyche.

Of course the racial attitude went away. We do not divide based on Birth. I have never experienced any such thing in my life ever. Heck, Most Bangladeshis do not have any title in name. All Bangladesh Muslim families before marriage only try to know About the career of the Man, Nothing else at all.

 

[Nilgiri]

Of course the racial attitude went away. We do not divide based on Birth. I have never experienced any such thing in my life ever. Heck, Most Bangladeshis do not have any title in name. All Bangladesh Muslim families before marriage only try to know About the career of the Man, Nothing else at all.

Muslim dalit discrimination in BD:

http://idsn.org/wp-content/uploads/...nation_in_Bangladesh__IIDS_working_paper_.pdf

3.2 Living Conditions of Dalit Hindu and Muslim communities The survey conducted in different localities of the country reveal that most Dalits; both from Hindu and Muslim communities live in Kutcha (Bamboo made/ thatched/ wattle) houses; 76 per cent for Hindu Dalits and 91 per cent for the Muslim Dalits. About 14 per cent of Hindu Dalits and 8 percent of Muslim Dalits live in semi-pucca houses and 99 per cent live in 1-2 room houses. Dalits are pushed to live in small and densely populated houses without any civic amenities. The study reflected that only 44 per cent of Hindu Dalits have access to tube wells, 22 per cent to Water and Sanitation of government (WASA), 16 Indian Institute of Dalit Studies Volume III, Number 07 17 per cent pond and 14 per cent others; whereas 51 per cent, 13 per cent, 12 per cent, and 11 per cent of Muslim Dalits have access to tube wells, WASA, pond and others; respectively. Most of the Dalits have less access to government facilities and mostly managed by themselves either by private tube well or natural resources such as ponds, rivers and so on. Among the Hindu Dalits, only 54 per cent have access to electricity while as it is 32 per cent for Muslim Dalits. This also indicates that many Hindu Dalits live in government or local government arrangements of housing with electricity, which is not so for the Muslim Dalits. About 90 per cent and 91 per cent of the Hindu and Muslim Dalits respectively; do not have access to telephone services and only 9 per cent of Hindu and 8 per cent of Muslim Dalits use mobile phones. Use of sanitary toilet is limited to 58 per cent of Hindu Dalits and 44 per cent of Muslim Dalits while 37 per cent and 40 per cent of Hindu and Muslim Dalits respectively use non-sanitary toilet. This indicates poor living conditions that contribute to the ill health and environmental pollution of the said population. Cooking gas is not accessible to 81 per cent of Hindu Dalits and 96 per cent of Muslim Dalits. This reflects that the installation of cooking gas connection in the houses by the government or local government is greater for the Hindu Dalits than the Muslim Dalits as most of the Hindu Dalits are living in the housing/colonies arranged by the government. This is mainly because most of them are not allowed to stay within the locality. Radio is not accessible to 89 per cent of Hindu Dalits and 92 per cent for the Muslim Dalits. The Hindu Dalits as traditional fishermen are provided radio by the government or arrange for themselves one; to seek weather information before venturing into the river or sea. Bicycle, as the only form of transportation, is not accessible to about 82 per cent and 88 per cent of Hindu and Muslim Dalits. These figures reflect the dismal living conditions since they cannot afford a bicycle for their basic transportation. Other indicators; like 87 per cent of the Hindu Dalits and 97 per cent of the Muslim Dalits do not have cassette player at home which debars them access to any form of entertainment.

http://www.dalits.nl/pdf/Factsheet_Bangladesh.pdf

http://opinion.bdnews24.com/2014/12/02/racism-and-reverse-racism-in-bangladesh/

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...i-discrimination-law-2014117151914319174.html

http://www.academia.edu/7166778/Dalit_Initiatives_In_Bangladesh_Mazharul_Islam_Altaf_Parvez

Muslim Dalits who again can be found across the country. Though as a religion, Islam does not recognise any division based on caste or creed, thesocio-economic and cultural context of South Asia determine some Muslim communities as inferiors to others based on their occupations.

More on Muslim dalit discrimination in BD from the UN:

http://lib.ohchr.org/HRBodies/UPR/Documents/Session16/BD/JS7_UPR_BGDS16_2013_Jointsubmission7_E.pdf

 

[kobiraaz]

Muslim dalit discrimination in BD:

http://idsn.org/wp-content/uploads/...nation_in_Bangladesh__IIDS_working_paper_.pdf

3.2 Living Conditions of Dalit Hindu and Muslim communities The survey conducted in different localities of the country reveal that most Dalits; both from Hindu and Muslim communities live in Kutcha (Bamboo made/ thatched/ wattle) houses; 76 per cent for Hindu Dalits and 91 per cent for the Muslim Dalits. About 14 per cent of Hindu Dalits and 8 percent of Muslim Dalits live in semi-pucca houses and 99 per cent live in 1-2 room houses. Dalits are pushed to live in small and densely populated houses without any civic amenities. The study reflected that only 44 per cent of Hindu Dalits have access to tube wells, 22 per cent to Water and Sanitation of government (WASA), 16 Indian Institute of Dalit Studies Volume III, Number 07 17 per cent pond and 14 per cent others; whereas 51 per cent, 13 per cent, 12 per cent, and 11 per cent of Muslim Dalits have access to tube wells, WASA, pond and others; respectively. Most of the Dalits have less access to government facilities and mostly managed by themselves either by private tube well or natural resources such as ponds, rivers and so on. Among the Hindu Dalits, only 54 per cent have access to electricity while as it is 32 per cent for Muslim Dalits. This also indicates that many Hindu Dalits live in government or local government arrangements of housing with electricity, which is not so for the Muslim Dalits. About 90 per cent and 91 per cent of the Hindu and Muslim Dalits respectively; do not have access to telephone services and only 9 per cent of Hindu and 8 per cent of Muslim Dalits use mobile phones. Use of sanitary toilet is limited to 58 per cent of Hindu Dalits and 44 per cent of Muslim Dalits while 37 per cent and 40 per cent of Hindu and Muslim Dalits respectively use non-sanitary toilet. This indicates poor living conditions that contribute to the ill health and environmental pollution of the said population. Cooking gas is not accessible to 81 per cent of Hindu Dalits and 96 per cent of Muslim Dalits. This reflects that the installation of cooking gas connection in the houses by the government or local government is greater for the Hindu Dalits than the Muslim Dalits as most of the Hindu Dalits are living in the housing/colonies arranged by the government. This is mainly because most of them are not allowed to stay within the locality. Radio is not accessible to 89 per cent of Hindu Dalits and 92 per cent for the Muslim Dalits. The Hindu Dalits as traditional fishermen are provided radio by the government or arrange for themselves one; to seek weather information before venturing into the river or sea. Bicycle, as the only form of transportation, is not accessible to about 82 per cent and 88 per cent of Hindu and Muslim Dalits. These figures reflect the dismal living conditions since they cannot afford a bicycle for their basic transportation. Other indicators; like 87 per cent of the Hindu Dalits and 97 per cent of the Muslim Dalits do not have cassette player at home which debars them access to any form of entertainment.

http://www.dalits.nl/pdf/Factsheet_Bangladesh.pdf

http://opinion.bdnews24.com/2014/12/02/racism-and-reverse-racism-in-bangladesh/

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...i-discrimination-law-2014117151914319174.html

http://www.academia.edu/7166778/Dalit_Initiatives_In_Bangladesh_Mazharul_Islam_Altaf_Parvez

Muslim Dalits who again can be found across the country. Though as a religion, Islam does not recognise any division based on caste or creed, thesocio-economic and cultural context of South Asia determine some Muslim communities as inferiors to others based on their occupations.

More on Muslim dalit discrimination in BD from the UN:

http://lib.ohchr.org/HRBodies/UPR/Documents/Session16/BD/JS7_UPR_BGDS16_2013_Jointsubmission7_E.pdf

Lol I have lived all of my life here and never heard anything called Muslim Dalit. That is on paper not in our practical life. The only people muslims hate are those who are involved with handling filth or cleaning drains or something like that. You can call Them untouchable but it doesn't depend on Blood or birth. Anyday any of them can leave handling filths and turn into one of us. As I said Discrimination is based on profession not family. All you have posted will look like Garbage to Bangladeshis because none of them experienced anything like that.

Also the Syed Ashraf Atraf system is prevalent among Indian Muslims, Bengali muslims converted by Sufis don't care about that crap as well

 

[Hasan89]

Who cares? West bengal who? We are Bangladeshis and we own Bangla and Bangali. They can have the English term Bengal and Bengali. But they would need Bangla and Bangali because without these two term they would be able to describe certain things when they talk locally. But we won't need to use term bengal ever!

In the world no one knows west bengal other than india. World knows Bangladesh. So it doesnt matter what west bengal changes itself to. Bangladesh is the proper Bangla and land of where proper bangalis from!

 

[Trumpcard]

Who cares? West bengal who? We are Bangladeshis and we own Bangla and Bangali. They can have the English term Bengal and Bengali. But they would need Bangla and Bangali because without these two term they would be able to describe certain things when they talk locally. But we won't need to use term bengal ever!

In the world no one knows west bengal other than india. World knows Bangladesh. So it doesnt matter what west bengal changes itself to. Bangladesh is the proper Bangla and land of where proper bangalis from!

@UKBengali do you share the same thoughts? Your brother from your motherland just termed you as a non-proper bangali
Just kidding no offence!!

 

[Michael Corleone]

Check the quote below, this shows who is a Bengali and who is not for the rest of the world.

You are a Bangladeshi.





They were always confused about their identity for the last 100 years or so.

It wasn't always like this. It's post 2008-2010 that this started happening.

 

[dray]

We are Bangladeshi and you are Bangla Pradeshi ( West Bengal is now called Bangla). We are Bengali, you are Indian. Our national anthem is Amar Shonar Bangla (My Golden Bangla), yours is Jana Gana Mana. When a foreigner refers a person 'Bengali' he means a person from Bangladesh. You are confused people who are mistaken as Bangladeshi if you speak Bangla. Everytime you need to correct others that you speak Bangla but you are not Bangladeshi. We are sometimes mistaken as Indian, well, we are from Indian subcontinent but you are always mistaken as Bangladeshi when you open your mouth and speak in your mother tongue. Try that in third country. Best of luck.

For the bold part; a foreigner first need to know what is a "Bangladesh", most don't even know it.

See, even in the OP that Polish girl in love with Bengali language turned to Hindu philosophies and Indian civilization, when foreigners want to study Bengali literature, they come to India, Shantiniketan has many foreign students studying there.

Some Bangladeshis are trying hard to be associated with the Bengali identity, that's natural, Arabs don't have anything comparable, but Bangladeshis will remain Bangladeshis....just Bangladeshis.....and only Bangladeshis.

It wasn't always like this. It's post 2008-2010 that this started happening.

As Bangladaesh is emerging, Bangladesh is sinking.

 

[Nilgiri]

Lol I have lived all of my life here and never heard anything called Muslim Dalit. That is on paper not in our practical life. The only people muslims hate are those who are involved with handling filth or cleaning drains or something like that. You can call Them untouchable but it doesn't depend on Blood or birth. Anyday any of them can leave handling filths and turn into one of us. As I said Discrimination is based on profession not family. All you have posted will look like Garbage to Bangladeshis because none of them experienced anything like that.

Also the Syed Ashraf Atraf system is prevalent among Indian Muslims, Bengali muslims converted by Sufis don't care about that crap as well

No one cares what you personally think or feel or claim to have seen or havent seen.

Point is racism and discrimination abound in BD at all levels, one need not look beyond some members here in this subforum....to imagine how bad it can be in BD.

This racism/discrimination/prejudices are even exported as BD people move to other countries....and its made even more ironic given their pitiful state of 70%+ poverty in places like the UK.

United Nations recognizes the problem of Muslim Dalits in BD....you can be blind to the reality to play some "we are superior to India and Hindus in treating everyone equal" among yourselves....point is everyone else sees it quite differently and beyond your silly "everything is fine here---really!" claims.

So again in case you didn't get it.....no one that matters gives a damn about your claims of what BD society is. No one is certainly in a rush to see it for themselves anyway....not after Gulshan especially.

 

[kobiraaz]

No one cares what you personally think or feel or claim to have seen or havent seen.

Point is racism and discrimination abound in BD at all levels, one need not look beyond some members here in this subforum....to imagine how bad it can be in BD.

This racism/discrimination/prejudices are even exported as BD people move to other countries....and its made even more ironic given their pitiful state of 70%+ poverty in places like the UK.

United Nations recognizes the problem of Muslim Dalits in BD....you can be blind to the reality to play some "we are superior to India and Hindus in treating everyone equal" among yourselves....point is everyone else sees it quite differently and beyond your silly "everything is fine here---really!" claims.

So again in case you didn't get it.....no one that matters gives a damn about your claims of what BD society is. No one is certainly in a rush to see it for themselves anyway....not after Gulshan especially.

There is no Muslim Dalit or whatever. All the reports meant Muslim and hindu methors And their ghetto life style as Common people consider them unclean because of their profession of handling human waste. There is no point in arguing with you as you have practically zero knowledge of BD social structure and your last few Google post have solidified the claim of some members

 

[Nilgiri]

There is no Muslim Dalit or whatever. All the reports meant Muslim and hindu methors And their ghetto life style as Common people consider them unclean because of their profession of handling human waste. There is no point in arguing with you as you have practically zero knowledge of BD social structure and your last few Google post have solidified the claim of some members

Don't worry I have talked about it with Bangladeshis that are actually open and honest and admit their country's/society's failings and problems (including racism and discrimination that permeates beyond just religious theory), two things one can never expect from the likes of you.

You seem to be under the impression that religious theory somehow trumps 1000s of years of human interpretation/implementation. Anyway keep living in that well if it helps you feel better. I prefer to explore the whole countryside instead.

UN clearly publishes the phenomenon of Muslim Dalits in Bangladesh. Thats the end of the story as far as I am concerned regarding a neutral take on the matter.

The impression of BD as a tolerant and "equal" society took a real big tumble over the last few years even among its former proponents overseas....given the hackings of intellectuals and regular hindu people...its kangaroo court war crimes tribunal...and more recently the Gulshan slaughter episode.

You expect people to believe that everything is peachy at a fundamental level somehow....and to take your clearly biased word that it is so? Give us a break.....you aren't fooling anyone. Not when you are what other members here have called you: A flimsy, backboneless former ISIS supporter. You get carried by various currents and streams....I would prefer to hear about the subject from someone that actually has a firm position.

 

[Saiful Islam]

For the bold part; a foreigner first need to know what is a "Bangladesh", most don't even know it.

See, even in the OP that Polish girl in love with Bengali language turned to Hindu philosophies and Indian civilization, when foreigners want to study Bengali literature, they come to India, Shantiniketan has many foreign students studying there.

Some Bangladeshis are trying hard to be associated with the Bengali identity, that's natural, Arabs don't have anything comparable, but Bangladeshis will remain Bangladeshis....just Bangladeshis.....and only Bangladeshis.



As Bangladaesh is emerging, Bangladesh is sinking.

Just because a polish girl married a Hindu Bengali means zilch. Every country knows Bengalis as people from Bangladesh who adhere to Islam. Deny the truth if you want.

Don't worry I have talked about it with Bangladeshis that are actually open and honest and admit their country's/society's failings and problems (including racism and discrimination that permeates beyond just religious theory), two things one can never expect from the likes of you.

You seem to be under the impression that religious theory somehow trumps 1000s of years of human interpretation/implementation. Anyway keep living in that well if it helps you feel better. I prefer to explore the whole countryside instead.

UN clearly publishes the phenomenon of Muslim Dalits in Bangladesh. Thats the end of the story as far as I am concerned regarding a neutral take on the matter.

The impression of BD as a tolerant and "equal" society took a real big tumble over the last few years even among its former proponents overseas....given the hackings of intellectuals and regular hindu people...its kangaroo court war crimes tribunal...and more recently the Gulshan slaughter episode.

You expect people to believe that everything is peachy at a fundamental level somehow....and to take your clearly biased word that it is so? Give us a break.....you aren't fooling anyone. Not when you are what other members here have called you: A flimsy, backboneless former ISIS supporter. You get carried by various currents and streams....I would prefer to hear about the subject from someone that actually has a firm position.

People in BD are not familiar with what a Dalit is. UN can post whatever it wants. Like kobiraaz said, you don't understand the social structure of BD. Even if Dalit was a "zaat" or bongsho in BD, it would be irrelevant to the common man.

 

[kobiraaz]

Just because a polish girl married a Hindu Bengali means zilch. Every country knows Bengalis as people from Bangladesh who adhere to Islam. Deny the truth if you want.




People in BD are not familiar with what a Dalit is. UN can post whatever it wants. Like kobiraaz said, you don't understand the social structure of BD. Even if Dalit was a "zaat" or bongsho in BD, it would be irrelevant to the common man.

Don't Bother. He most probably can't imagine a sub continental society without caste based discrimination. Heck He will need to pack his thikuzi of stars or something like that if he ever wants to get married in India.

 

[Nilgiri]

People in BD are not familiar with what a Dalit is. UN can post whatever it wants. Like kobiraaz said, you don't understand the social structure of BD. Even if Dalit was a "zaat" or bongsho in BD, it would be irrelevant to the common man.

Like I said I dont bother what some islamicist trolls say on a defence forum (especially one with a mass murdering war criminal on his DP). I care only about BD people's opinions I make friends with in real life (and they are generally much more open to the issues and accept BD isnt some special haven of tolerance and equality) and also what a neutral authority like the UN has to say on the matter.

If you want to wear a blindfold when the mirror is shown to you lot, be my guest. It only helps India dominate your excuse of a country even more over time. Self-denial only props up weaknesses we can exploit easily on top of what we are already doing. Remember that.

Every country knows Bengalis as people from Bangladesh who adhere to Islam. Deny the truth if you want.

More self denial. The 70% poverty rate must be really rotting your head.

 

[bluesky]

Many of your fellow compatriots do not get their previous and continuing Hindu heritage. That was directed towards them. If you understand it, I got no issue with it.

And did the racial attitude go away? It didn't....because it was never part of the theological structure of Hinduism....rather the practical deficiencies of people that implemented what underlies the human psyche.

we are not Hindu. So, why should we follow their criminal division of humanities in many caste and strata. What racial attitude among the Muslims? We do not differentiate also with Hindus of ours except when it is marriage. Otherwise we are one society. @idune and others are a little exceptional.

 

[Nilgiri]

we are not Hindu. So, why should we follow their criminal division of humanities in many caste and strata. What racial attitude among the Muslims? We do not differentiate also with Hindus of ours except when it is marriage. Otherwise we are one society. @idune and others are a little exceptional.

Yes why should you? Why did many Hindus follow it even though it wasn't part of Hinduism core theology and given all the Hindu philsophers and reformers who explained that? Its the same exact reason. Core theology does not matter much to uneducated and gullible masses under the effects of ruling classes and elites who have much vested interests to keep a hierarchy in place. You think that goes away when religion gets changed? You think Saudi Arabia where this religion spawned is a beacon of equality and secular tolerance?

Like I said, its better discussion for BD of higher intellectual caliber than those that seem to frequent defence forums.

In the mean time you can focus your efforts on getting the UN to revoke its report on BD dalits and BD discrimination....than talking to me. They may be more amenable to hearing your protests and whining than me at least.