Were the ancestors of MQM leaders the real founders of Pakistan?

[Sugarcane]

you are again generalizing the entire MQM , which is not right .. not all MQM supporters are criminals , so many people are good and well educated but this issue is with Punjabi , so i understand your frustration lolz .. you are not the only person i meet who believe that all MQM supporters are criminal and murderers so everyone deserve to die right ? lol now go a head and kill like at least 1 million supporters on MQM .... this is best you can do right ? just like in 92 your punjabis had done ? creating a false flag and killing many ...
i have posted the link where the Gen himself say that Jinnahpur was fake ,, you are free to use google..

you are telling me that you dont support any party but continuously supporting PMLN ? you are high on drugs ? or you are just doing on purpose ? and as far as crimes are concerned , there are everyone involved in crime , including ANP ,PPPP, PMLN, JUI , JI , and even other religious parties, but unlike your punjabi representatives PMLN , no body support Taliban and organizations like LeJ and LeT ....

if pulling legs in ghutti of Pakistan doesnt mean its right ?? why dont you swallow this truth that everyone is just supporting their own Ethnicity , and there is no such thing called pakistani exist ... my experience was from Punjabi so i am saying it here , you may have experience with urdu speaker , so go ahead ,, tell us .. i wont be mad at you lol

i am not just hater of Punjabi , i bash everyone , who ever i find bad , i bash .. you can see my post ... so its enough to prove you wrong that my obsession is with punjabi's ...

if you are gawaar or paidu , there is no rocket science to understand this simple fact ..
and i am sure there are many good people in Punjab .. obviously majority is nice and good ... but the bad people are in numbers you cant neglect ..

I don't have any respect for anyone who support and justify the action of criminal, just like i don't respect the people who are sympathetic or apologists of religious terrorists. Consider it what you want. I do have sympathy for innocent who became target of 92 operation, but trying to say that all were innocent is same like these days whenever LEAs try to capture criminals MQM starts playing Muhajir card. And you forgot that how target killing of Punjabies happened after that but never mind.

Where i supported PML-N? My views on every political parties and politicians still exists on PDF, help yourself to know.

Leg pulling =/= supporting own ethnicity. I have seen even person got fallow citizen replaced with an Indian, and can give you name of company where owner is from Punjab but all staff is either from Karachi or India but anyway it's waste of time because you already have prejudice that every Punjabi is working on plans to get Urdu speaker kicked and bring other Punjabi in Pakistan and overseas.

Had you not targeted whole community outright, i wouldn't haven been debating with you to begin with.

 

[Bratva]

But i guess they were inspired by urdu speakers and bengalis. Didn't bengali muslims first start muslim homeland movement? Logical since bengali muslims were also oppressed by minority hindus thanks to British. I think punjabis/pakistanis woke up in 40's.

For exemple this declaration written by punjabi Rahmat Ali and aso signed by couple of pashtuns was rejected by muslim leaders in 1933.

Mohd Aslam Khan (Khattak). President, Khyber Union.
Sheikh Mohd Sadiq (Sahibzada).
Inayat Ullah Khan (of Charsaddah). Secretary, Khyber Union

Now or Never; Are We to Live or Perish Forever? - Wikisource, the free online library

Muslim league was dormant in 30's. Who convinced Quaid e Azam to come back to Hindustan ? The defeat of Muslim league in 1936 elections were evident how Muslims perceived AIML as non-serious party. The revival of AIML and Pakistan began in the grounds of Minto Park Lahore.

None of the Urdu speakers were able to influence Punjab support to AIML. It was Quaid e azam alone whose charisma won over the Punjabis. It was the efforts of Sardar abdur rab nishtar,Shaukat Hayat khan Allama iqbal who broke unionist influence over Urban punjab and Peer and Sufi's of rural punjab which broke the back of Unionists

 

[Kabira]

Muslim league was dormant in 30's. Who convinced Quaid e Azam to come back to Hindustan ? The defeat of Muslim league in 1936 elections were evident how Muslims perceived AIML as non-serious party. The revival of AIML and Pakistan began in the grounds of Minto Park Lahore.

None of the Urdu speakers were able to influence Punjab support to AIML. It was Quaid e azam alone whose charisma won over the Punjabis. It was the efforts of Sardar abdur rab nishtar,Shaukat Hayat khan Allama iqbal who broke unionist influence over Urban punjab and Peer and Sufi's of rural punjab which broke the back of Unionists

But didn't separate homeland for muslim movement start decades earlier in Up/Bihar and Bengal? So muslim of Pakistan only woke up in late 30's and early 40's.

 

[rockstar08]

I don't have any respect for anyone who support and justify the action of criminal, just like i don't respect the people who are sympathetic or apologists of religious terrorists. Consider it what you want. I do have sympathy for innocent who became target of 92 operation, but trying to say that all were innocent is same like these days whenever LEAs try to capture criminals MQM starts playing Muhajir card. And you forgot that how target killing of Punjabies happened after that but never mind.

Where i supported PML-N? My views on every political parties and politicians still exists on PDF, help yourself to know.

Leg pulling =/= supporting own ethnicity. I have seen even person got fallow citizen replaced with an Indian, and can give you name of company where owner is from Punjab but all staff is either from Karachi or India but anyway it's waste of time because you already have prejudice that every Punjabi is working on plans to get Urdu speaker kicked and bring other Punjabi in Pakistan and overseas.

Had you not targeted whole community outright, i wouldn't haven been debating with you to begin with.

you simply dont respect anyone , so dont have to lie here , on one side you are saying that you feel sad about innocent people getting killed and on the other hand you are saying that all MQM supporters are criminals .. lolz ...
so Mustafa kamal was a criminal right ? hahaha
and People in Karachi , have elected 25 mna from a Terrorist organization , you cant be that crazy to think that ..

well i have seen that Punjabi are pulling legs of other Pakistani , not just urdu speakers but of Pashtoon and baloch .. so i told you , if you dont believe than its your problem not mine ..

and as i said , i only bash people who are bad , have you ever saw me bashing Army , even though army has all ethnicity ? i respect them a lot .. and love them .. because i know they are our protectors

 

[Bratva]

But didn't separate homeland for muslim movement start decades earlier in Up/Bihar and Bengal? So muslim of Pakistan only woke up in late 30's and early 40's.

IIRC, The first demand of separate muslim land was made by Allama Iqbal in 31. Those muslim movements of 10's and 20's were mostly concentrated on taking care the rights of minority muslims in a hindu majority society. You should read Quad e Azam 14 points which he promulgated in 1927 or 28.

 

[Gazi]

Maybe these days Pashtuns are main target but it doesn't mean that some change of heart happened and stereotype against Punjabies is gone, in fact this kind of stereotype exist against almost every community. You are living in your own world if you think that prejudice doesn't exist among Urdu speakers when they are decision makers or can influence decision.

How many Urdu Speakers had been Decision makers in Pakistan for last 20 years?I can name Musharraf, Dr. Att ur Rehman, AQ Khan, Mirza Aslam Baig you can consider Mustafa Kamal and Niamat Ullah Khan as well these were Notable ones at least and how many of them are known for Prejudice?Make your comparison with decision makers that were Punjabis in last Twenty Years yourself.

I gave example of Zia and Kyani because despite being Punjabi they get bashed. It's simple that they including Musharraf get blamed for their action and decision not their ethnicity. This victim card mindset is the reason which make you think that he is getting blamed because he is Urdu speaker, otherwise every ruler gets appreciations and blames, it's part of package. If you insist than i can also pose counter argument that Urdu speakers only support Musharraf because he is from their community otherwise they blame and bash Generals of other ethnicity.

Kyani is Potohari from North Punjab native of Punjab while Zia had Indian Punjabi Routes so they are not Urdu Speakers by any where near as most them had First Language Punjabi rather then Urdu. Punjabis blaming both is based on their wrong decisions but still their never got the blaming regarding Economy or rule of Law but on the other side Musharraf is blamed for all the ills that we are seeing right now. It is only MQM get into action by watching unfair Trial when only Musharraf is Blamed while all others are walking freely be it CJ itself. Urdu speakers are not only Supported by Urdu Speakers but also by most Karachiite irrespective of Ethnicity even here in this forum a person who is most vocal in supporting Musharraf is not Urdu Speaker but Karachiite so you should better check before making argument on that.

As said, doesn't matter his thoughts are proven correct or not, a drunk sick gangster is not taken seriously by anybody other than his followers.

This Drunken Sick Gangster is what kept us Karachiite vigilant at least because Karachi would have been IDPs today living in camps across Pakistan like Waziris. We can at least give them that as well as during his Party's tenure Karachi was Peaceful and developing while you people are better off Supporter corrupt Nawaz and Family and claim us to be Prejudice.

That's lame excuse, Did people not vote for PML-Q when PML-N was thrown out? Is giving clean chits in criminal cases to improve own image justified? Even Musharraf himself don't defend his decision and acknowledge his mistake.

It is far from Lame Excuse because Musharraf was asked to hand over Power by Democratic Process and look at the results of 2008 Elections yourself where most of the Country Rejected Musharraf for them so Musharraf gave them opportunity otherwise whole Pakistan would be blaming of Sham Election or derailing Democracy and what not.

Even with 20% literacy ratio, enough educated people would have been available to maintain ratios as per population, And nepotism is not any better than Quota system. We are already getting blamed for Punjabi dominance, why we should raise voice against quota -- it's equal to aa bail mairi maar ---, at-least now we can say that we are getting share as per our population. If without quota more candidate from Punjab succeeds in securing jobs than people with delusion of superiority will not accept that they failed on merit and will start accusing Punjab again, we were getting bashed because of our strength in armed forces (which also was based on merit) and had to reduce presence to satisfy cry babies. So we are ok with quota and without quota.

What makes you sure that their were no Punjabis part of Bureaucracy or civil Administration back then?They had their Share on that as well but the larger Share belongs to Bangali other then Urdu Speakers because they were absolute Majority in Pakistan hence their Share of Literacy was larger in comparison to Punjab of KPK in fact 2 Million of them still left in Karachi to this day still living in what was Capital of Pakistan. Even they had Representation on the basis of their Share of LITERACY in Pakistan Civil Administration and there was no Proof of Nepotism but Meritocracy based on Education during 1950s and 60s or at least. If Punjabis couldnt able to Compete on that then its not the fault of Government they did good job in Military to compensate that shortage instead.

Quota system introduced Region as criteria for Civil Bureaucracy rather then Education and was done along with Nationalizing Industry in Pakistan while leaving Feudal system intact. That was Discrimination in actual sense because many Business people had to lose their Industry which they were running Profit while those Feudal Land Lords doesnt even lose a single Acre of land to such program.

That is the main Difference here you people talks about your Share on the basis of Population while we talk about share on the basis of Education and COMPETENCE so why shouldnt you people get the blame because most of Civil Bureaucracy that had turned the many well Functioning Institutions to Bankruptcy is because of that mindset of Population share. At one point you people doesnt even want Merit while at the other point you people say that people wont Qualify on Merit that is a big Contradiction of your mindset instead of others so their Blames on Punjabis are not completely unfounded because Punjab has Higher share in Civil Bureaucracy and they also have higher share in destroying our Public Institutions.

 

[Sugarcane]

you simply dont respect anyone , so dont have to lie here , on one side you are saying that you feel sad about innocent people getting killed and on the other hand you are saying that all MQM supporters are criminals .. lolz ...
so Mustafa kamal was a criminal right ? hahaha
and People in Karachi , have elected 25 mna from a Terrorist organization , you cant be that crazy to think that ..

There are some honest and competent people in ML & PP as well but because they don't speak about corruption and loot of their party and their leaders but defend them i consider all of them corrupt, it's same with MQM - there are some good people but none of them ever raised issue of criminals, gangsters in party or don sitting in UK so for me all are part of crime. Take it as you want, all i care.

well i have seen that Punjabi are pulling legs of other Pakistani , not just urdu speakers but of Pashtoon and baloch .. so i told you , if you dont believe than its your problem not mine ..

Your experience is limited to what your brothers supposedly told you, while it's near to 2 decades that i am in professional life... and have seen and dealt with enough organizational politics. So, at-least i consider myself better informed than you.

and as i said , i only bash people who are bad , have you ever saw me bashing Army , even though army has all ethnicity ? i respect them a lot .. and love them .. because i know they are our protectors

Underline part is funny, even within this post you expanded the scope of Punjabies always working against Urdu speakers to include Pashtuns and Baluchs.

 

[rockstar08]

There are some honest and competent people in ML & PP as well but because they don't speak about corruption and loot of their party and their leaders but defend them i consider all of them corrupt, it's same with MQM - there are some good people but none of them ever raised criminals, gangsters in party or don sitting in UK so for me all are part of crime. Take it as you want, all i care.



Your experience is limited to what your brothers supposedly told you, while it's near to 2 decades that i am in professional life... and have seen and dealt with enough organizational politics. So, at-least i consider myself better informed than you.



Underline part is funny, even within this post you expanded the scope of Punjabies always working against Urdu speakers to include Pashtuns and Baluchs.

now you are backing of with your points ? lol
and as i told you think whatever you want , i have even write my experience of PDF in threads , you may think i am MQM supporter but i am not i do like some people whom i know are not bad and well educated , they are just stuck and fear in MQM .. anyone will ... you are warrior so why not you bring AH to Pakistan ?

well yeah my experience is limited but not a false one right ??
so no matter if you are older than my grandfather , you can change the reality , and who know you have personal grudge with Urdu speaking people or you maybe fire some one them abroad too

anyway ..underline part is not funny but reality when people dont know how to react on the reality , they normally laugh...human behavior , just as when we feel scared we try to laugh :d or sing hahaha

 

[Sugarcane]

How many Urdu Speakers had been Decision makers in Pakistan for last 20 years?I can name Musharraf, Dr. Att ur Rehman, AQ Khan, Mirza Aslam Baig you can consider Mustafa Kamal and Niamat Ullah Khan as well these were Notable ones at least and how many of them are known for Prejudice?Make your comparison with decision makers that were Punjabis in last Twenty Years yourself.

You think only these people are Urdu speaker, they don't exist in public and private places where they are in position of making decision or influencing decision?

Kyani is Potohari from North Punjab native of Punjab while Zia had Indian Punjabi Routes so they are not Urdu Speakers by any where near as most them had First Language Punjabi rather then Urdu. Punjabis blaming both is based on their wrong decisions but still their never got the blaming regarding Economy or rule of Law but on the other side Musharraf is blamed for all the ills that we are seeing right now. It is only MQM get into action by watching unfair Trial when only Musharraf is Blamed while all others are walking freely be it CJ itself. Urdu speakers are not only Supported by Urdu Speakers but also by most Karachiite irrespective of Ethnicity even here in this forum a person who is most vocal in supporting Musharraf is not Urdu Speaker but Karachiite so you should better check before making argument on that.

Dude i don't know why you are hell bent to prove that they are not Urdu speakers when there is no need at all, And it's interesting that when Punjabies criticize Zia or Kyani than it's because of their decision but when they criticize Musharraf than it's because of his ethnicity. And i know Musharraf's supporters are not only Urdu speakers, he have supporters even in Punjab because nobody care about his ethnicity in Punjab. It's MQM who tried/trying to play Muhajir card over him. Re: CJ Initially people got fooled because media hype and his stunts but now he also get bashed. It's only that you people try to see everything with ethnic lenses hence see only things which you want to see.

This Drunken Sick Gangster is what kept us Karachiite vigilant at least because Karachi would have been IDPs today living in camps across Pakistan like Waziris. We can at least give them that as well as during his Party's tenure Karachi was Peaceful and developing while you people are better off Supporter corrupt Nawaz and Family and claim us to be Prejudice.

As i said nobody in Punjab take that drunken sick gangster seriously, so doesn't matter what he says, good for you that he keeps you vigilant. Obviously when his party is in charge than why he will create violence and do strikes. NS don't have status like AH in Punjab, Had IK not been stubborn PTI would have easily won election, before that PPP, before that PML-Q.

It is far from Lame Excuse because Musharraf was asked to hand over Power by Democratic Process and look at the results of 2008 Elections yourself where most of the Country Rejected Musharraf for them so Musharraf gave them opportunity otherwise whole Pakistan would be blaming of Sham Election or derailing Democracy and what not.

Man even Musharraf himself admit it was blunder but you are still trying to justify it.

What makes you sure that their were no Punjabis part of Bureaucracy or civil Administration back then?They had their Share on that as well but the larger Share belongs to Bangali other then Urdu Speakers because they were absolute Majority in Pakistan hence their Share of Literacy was larger in comparison to Punjab of KPK in fact 2 Million of them still left in Karachi to this day still living in what was Capital of Pakistan. Even they had Representation on the basis of their Share of LITERACY in Pakistan Civil Administration and there was no Proof of Nepotism but Meritocracy based on Education during 1950s and 60s or at least. If Punjabis couldnt able to Compete on that then its not the fault of Government they did good job in Military to compensate that shortage instead.

Even with low literacy rate number of educated were enough educated natives to have representation as per their population as it was not like there were millions of vacancies. And natives were forced to learn foreign language to get job. So, saying that nothing happened is simply foolish.

Quota system introduced Region as criteria for Civil Bureaucracy rather then Education and was done along with Nationalizing Industry in Pakistan while leaving Feudal system intact. That was Discrimination in actual sense because many Business people had to lose their Industry which they were running Profit while those Feudal Land Lords doesnt even lose a single Acre of land to such program.

I stated my views on quota already and rest i agree that it was economic suicide and to strengthen feudal system.

That is the main Difference here you people talks about your Share on the basis of Population while we talk about share on the basis of Education and COMPETENCE so why shouldnt you people get the blame because most of Civil Bureaucracy that had turned the many well Functioning Institutions to Bankruptcy is because of that mindset of Population share. At one point you people doesnt even want Merit while at the other point you people say that people wont Qualify on Merit that is a big Contradiction of your mindset instead of others so their Blames on Punjabis are not completely unfounded because Punjab has Higher share in Civil Bureaucracy and they also have higher share in destroying our Public Institutions.

I don't have any problem with removal of quota system but the superiority complex which you people have will again start new round of accusation that Punjabies are getting more than everyone else. Punjab now is not Punjab of 1947 and have progressed a lot in education and now holds pools of largest educated people among all provinces. It's only your delusion that some how you are the most competent species in world with whom nobody can compete. And Quota system is not necessarily mean that you shouldn't follow merit. It's only that federal jobs are distributed among provinces. For the federal each job in Punjab thousands of people apply and for you all the participants who fulfill all the required qualification and apply are incompetent? People getting jobs by bribing or using links doesn't mean quota system is made to appoint people without merit. In corrupt society even without quota they will get appointed unless you make process of appointments more transparent and more foolproof.

now you are backing of with your points ? lol

witch point?

and as i told you think whatever you want , i have even write my experience of PDF in threads , you may think i am MQM supporter but i am not i do like some people whom i know are not bad and well educated , they are just stuck and fear in MQM .. anyone will ... you are warrior so why not you bring AH to Pakistan ?

They way you defend MQM don't suggest that you are not MQM supporter, but if good people are stuck in MQM because of fear than why you people have issue when others call MQM a gangster party? And why there is a need to bring that todd to Pakistan, he is near his natural death.

anyway ..underline part is not funny but reality when people dont know how to react on the reality , they normally laugh...human behavior , just as when we feel scared we try to laugh :d or sing hahaha

Check the thread to find out whose posts are full of lolz and hahaha

 

[Gazi]

You think only these people are Urdu speaker, they don't exist in public and private places where they are in position of making decision or influencing decision?

You are welcome to quote few Example to prove your point. At least these were to my knowledge a NOTABLE once.

Dude i don't know why you are hell bent to prove that they are not Urdu speakers when there is no need at all, And it's interesting that when Punjabies criticize Zia or Kyani than it's because of their decision but when they criticize Musharraf than it's because of his ethnicity. And i know Musharraf's supporters are not only Urdu speakers, he have supporters even in Punjab because nobody care about his ethnicity in Punjab. It's MQM who tried/trying to play Muhajir card over him. Re: CJ Initially people got fooled because media hype and his stunts but now he also get bashed. It's only that you people try to see everything with ethnic lenses hence see only things which you want to see.

Why should I be hell bent on Proving Zia or Kyani not being Urdu Speaking because they didnt have any Familial or Cultural Connections to people who consider Urdu as First Language?Their Backgrounds are Clear enough for that. As for your saying of wrong decision then they were only CRITICIZED for it and the Musharraf is one and only who faced TRIAL of SELECTIVE JUSTICE from BIASED JUDICIARY isnt that difference more then enough to prove something called Discrimination?A person who initiated Marshall Law in 1998 is facing a trial for emergency in 2007 how good is that. MQM did raise their voice for him with Explanation that if Musharraf is to be trialed then he should be Trialed with all his cronies who partnered him in derailing Democracy from 1998 so explanation is there for their reasons to support their claim. As for Pakistanis fooled by CJ people then the Damage is done but that doesnt change anything till now when Musharraf is still criticized for every ills Pakistan is going through instead of getting much needed support or at least words of Sympathy for facing everything on his own.

Man even Musharraf himself admit it was blunder but you are still trying to justify it.

Why shouldnt he admit as he is the one who is facing most of the problems by that decision all by himself and do you think consequences of not doing that would be any favor to him?He would be accused of not letting Democracy to prevail in Pakistan. At least he showed the real face of Pakistani Democracy which people desperately wanted now you people should enjoy the fruits of democracy just like you all wanted we at least have no regrets that we supported him to the end and even today since we cant influence Majority so we did what we could.

Even with low literacy rate number of educated were enough educated natives to have representation as per their population as it was not like there were millions of vacancies. And natives were forced to learn foreign language to get job. So, saying that nothing happened is simply foolish.

OK so you believe that Education is like a short Computer course or English Language course which can make a person eligible to become competent civil Servant within 3-4 years?Like I said most of West Pakistan at least was riddled with Feudal System back then and under such system things are not that easily as you think it is currently just check out Interior Sindh or Baluchistan to understand what I am trying to say here. Even Basic Education take 5-6 years and education enough to qualify for civil Servant would take at least 10-12 years and considering the literacy rate increase in Pakistan from 1947 to 1972 from 16.4% to 21% it wasnt a bad job at least considering the circumstances of a country that doesnt even had a functioning economy on the first Place.

I don't have any problem with removal of quota system but the superiority complex which you people have will again start new round of accusation that Punjabies are getting more than everyone else. Punjab now is not Punjab of 1947 and have progressed a lot in education and now holds pools of largest educated people among all provinces. It's only your delusion that some how you are the most competent species in world with whom nobody can compete. And Quota system is not necessarily mean that you shouldn't follow merit. It's only that federal jobs are distributed among provinces. For the federal each job in Punjab thousands of people apply and for you all the participants who fulfill all the required qualification and apply are incompetent? People getting jobs by bribing or using links doesn't mean quota system is made to appoint people without merit. In corrupt society even without quota they will get appointed unless you make process of appointments more transparent and more foolproof.

If you think Urdu Speakers live with the mindset that they are the only once more educated then its not there anymore because we acknowledge that other parts of the country have done good job in educating themselves and we also acknowledge the competencies that exist in rest of Pakistan and education institutions like LUMS UET GIKI are at par or even better with what we have in Karachi in the form of KU, NED IBA etc. So even if Urdu Speakers couldnt got the position filled it wont be an issue because at least he tried and their is always Lucrative Private sector Available for us to work and show our strength but when a person is rejected just because of his Domicile without from certain area without even beginning of evaluation of his competence is discriminatory after rejected by strict evaluation process at least a person cant Challenge the criteria and feel better that at least he tried his best but here even that criteria isnt getting followed just because of Institutionalized Discrimination in action on the basis of Regionalism and look how good it delivered to rest of Pakistan.

When a certain segment of society are kept out of the system despite of being constructive and competent then they wont Blame just Bad Apples for that they would Blame the whole system altogether as well as those who advocate them or kept themselves Quite against them its like how you people perceived every Karachiite with little support for MQM as Altaf Lover instead of realizing how good they Organize their Platform and how good they deliver the results when they had opportunity to run the situation. It is well known about Bribe culture and Nepotism in our Public sector but it has only took Shape from Institutionalized Discrimination introduced in 1970s which was itself wrong on the first place. So you People arent even vocal against the very Foundation of this mess and then you say that we have superiority Complex towards you people.

 

[rockstar08]

You think only these people are Urdu speaker, they don't exist in public and private places where they are in position of making decision or influencing decision?



Dude i don't know why you are hell bent to prove that they are not Urdu speakers when there is no need at all, And it's interesting that when Punjabies criticize Zia or Kyani than it's because of their decision but when they criticize Musharraf than it's because of his ethnicity. And i know Musharraf's supporters are not only Urdu speakers, he have supporters even in Punjab because nobody care about his ethnicity in Punjab. It's MQM who tried/trying to play Muhajir card over him. Re: CJ Initially people got fooled because media hype and his stunts but now he also get bashed. It's only that you people try to see everything with ethnic lenses hence see only things which you want to see.



As i said nobody in Punjab take that drunken sick gangster seriously, so doesn't matter what he says, good for you that he keeps you vigilant. Obviously when his party is in charge than why he will create violence and do strikes. NS don't have status like AH in Punjab, Had IK not been stubborn PTI would have easily won election, before that PPP, before that PML-Q.



Man even Musharraf himself admit it was blunder but you are still trying to justify it.



Even with low literacy rate number of educated were enough educated natives to have representation as per their population as it was not like there were millions of vacancies. And natives were forced to learn foreign language to get job. So, saying that nothing happened is simply foolish.



I stated my views on quota already and rest i agree that it was economic suicide and to strengthen feudal system.



I don't have any problem with removal of quota system but the superiority complex which you people have will again start new round of accusation that Punjabies are getting more than everyone else. Punjab now is not Punjab of 1947 and have progressed a lot in education and now holds pools of largest educated people among all provinces. It's only your delusion that some how you are the most competent species in world with whom nobody can compete. And Quota system is not necessarily mean that you shouldn't follow merit. It's only that federal jobs are distributed among provinces. For the federal each job in Punjab thousands of people apply and for you all the participants who fulfill all the required qualification and apply are incompetent? People getting jobs by bribing or using links doesn't mean quota system is made to appoint people without merit. In corrupt society even without quota they will get appointed unless you make process of appointments more transparent and more foolproof.


witch point?


They way you defend MQM don't suggest that you are not MQM supporter, but if good people are stuck in MQM because of fear than why you people have issue when others call MQM a gangster party? And why there is a need to bring that todd to Pakistan, he is near his natural death.



Check the thread to find out whose posts are full of lolz and hahaha

you are free to call MQM a gangster party , i wont mind , but if you call every supporter of MQM a criminal than i can say , all supporter of PMLN like to let their women dance in parties ... sounds cheap right ??
now again backing up from your warrior personality , bring that todd and hang him ... urdu speaking people are not much into fighting any way , there are so many tribal who like to kill and been killed
go ahead and bring him , baramdhag bhugtti too , hussain haqqani too ,

they are all are traitors .. so hang them and i will be first one to throw a shoe on their hanging corps ..

 

[rockstar08]

Yeah, It's cheap and this already your mindset which you expressed in previous posts when you called it as culture of Punjabies, But you should read book i recommended to know what was culture of your forefathers back.



You are funny person indeed.

The todd will die has natural painful death, why create mazar of him in Pakistan - keep your passport ready to go to uk to p!ss on his grave. Baramdag's few dozen terrorists will be killed soon after dealing with talibitiches, and hussain haqqani is just dog barking and don't have followers who disrupt life in Pakistan.

you know you are so blind with the hate , that you are keep doing the same thing which you asking other to stop hahahah
this conversation is funny ... and go ahead do speak about my forefather culture ? as if i care ? lolz

and i replied just as you say all MQM supporters are terrorist and all urdu speaking people are so incompetent to stand against MQM, than Mr , Hulk why not come forward and stand ? why not you wet your pants ?? thinking about coming to karachi and say anything against AH ? hahahah

and that todd live or die , i dont care .. and why would i go and piss on anyone's grave , it might be taught in your culture to piss on people grave or take out bodies from grave and rape them , but not in our cultures ... unfortunately we are not from some baba adam culture or tribal culture , where even girls are used as baby making machines ...

and i know what is the culture of Karachi i live since i born , i have seen both lifestyle here, dancing , parties , drugs and much more ... that will be for you ...

so first made your mind , who are you bashing here ? i bash what i dislike ,i have experience bad with many Punjabi so i share it , if you have some do share it

i wont be mad hahahaha

 

[Sugarcane]

You are welcome to quote few Example to prove your point. At least these were to my knowledge a NOTABLE once.

As i said earlier, do you think only these 2-3 Urdu speakers who was working in PUBLIC & PRIVATE? Does nepotism happen only when someone was Prime Minister and President?

Why should I be hell bent on Proving Zia or Kyani not being Urdu Speaking because they didnt have any Familial or Cultural Connections to people who consider Urdu as First Language?Their Backgrounds are Clear enough for that.

I never said they have anything to do with Urdu speakers, i know there background very well - one of them even belongs to my own tribe/caste. It's you who unnecessarily started explaining that they have no link with Urdu speakers.

As for your saying of wrong decision then they were only CRITICIZED for it and the Musharraf is one and only who faced TRIAL of SELECTIVE JUSTICE from BIASED JUDICIARY isnt that difference more then enough to prove something called Discrimination?A person who initiated Marshall Law in 1998 is facing a trial for emergency in 2007 how good is that. MQM did raise their voice for him with Explanation that if Musharraf is to be trialed then he should be Trialed with all his cronies who partnered him in derailing Democracy from 1998 so explanation is there for their reasons to support their claim. As for Pakistanis fooled by CJ people then the Damage is done but that doesnt change anything till now when Musharraf is still criticized for every ills Pakistan is going through instead of getting much needed support or at least words of Sympathy for facing everything on his own.

Zia still get blamed and bashed for everything wrong when he died more than 30 years ago, Ayub Khan and Yahya khan also. It's only your ethnic glasses that are showing you that he is being targeted because he is Urdu speaker, In old times media was under state control which is not the case, and now plays big role in farming peoples opinion, Judiciary was also used to be b!tch of rulers now she also started to claim it's own share of pie. And don't it's still are Punjabi generals who are being accused to stop his trial.

Why shouldnt he admit as he is the one who is facing most of the problems by that decision all by himself and do you think consequences of not doing that would be any favor to him?He would be accused of not letting Democracy to prevail in Pakistan. At least he showed the real face of Pakistani Democracy which people desperately wanted now you people should enjoy the fruits of democracy just like you all wanted we at least have no regrets that we supported him to the end and even today since we cant influence Majority so we did what we could.

Again a lame argument of letting democracy prevail. Didn't he kicked out elected govt.? He did NRO in over confidence thinking that all Pakistan support him and he will remain in power, when it was not the case.

OK so you believe that Education is like a short Computer course or English Language course which can make a person eligible to become competent civil Servant within 3-4 years?Like I said most of West Pakistan at least was riddled with Feudal System back then and under such system things are not that easily as you think it is currently just check out Interior Sindh or Baluchistan to understand what I am trying to say here. Even Basic Education take 5-6 years and education enough to qualify for civil Servant would take at least 10-12 years and considering the literacy rate increase in Pakistan from 1947 to 1972 from 16.4% to 21% it wasnt a bad job at least considering the circumstances of a country that doesnt even had a functioning economy on the first Place.

You don't need degree in space technology to become civil servant. Most of civil servants at that time were simple BA or MA at max, even today i think in order to appear in CSS exam qualification required is BA. And contrary to your prejudice that all people in west Pakistan were illiterate, People of Punjab were already dominating military and civil administration in this part and Sindhi had reservation about Punjab's dominance even before creation of Pakistan. I am talking about Sindhis here who were at big disadvantage in getting jobs with imposition of Urdu which was totally foreign language for them as unlike Punjab & NWFP in Sindh, Sindhi language was education and official language.

When a certain segment of society are kept out of the system despite of being constructive and competent then they wont Blame just Bad Apples for that they would Blame the whole system altogether as well as those who advocate them or kept themselves Quite against them its like how you people perceived every Karachiite with little support for MQM as Altaf Lover instead of realizing how good they Organize their Platform and how good they deliver the results when they had opportunity to run the situation. It is well known about Bribe culture and Nepotism in our Public sector but it has only took Shape from Institutionalized Discrimination introduced in 1970s which was itself wrong on the first place. So you People arent even vocal against the very Foundation of this mess and then you say that we have superiority Complex towards you people.

I already told you, when there is already accusation of Punjabization than why we should paint circle on our backs. You allocate jobs as per our population to us, we are happy with it. You remove quota that that's also good for us as we will be able to get even more share than current. So, it's up to smaller provinces to decide which way they are happy. I am talking about federal quotas here, your provincial quotas is none of our concern nor you have any grounds to blame Punjab for it.

you know you are so blind with the hate , that you are keep doing the same thing which you asking other to stop hahahah
this conversation is funny ... and go ahead do speak about my forefather culture ? as if i care ? lolz

Haven't said anything but suggested a book which is written by an Urdu speaker. And it's always good to know good and bad of your own before taking potshot at others.

and i replied just as you say all MQM supporters are terrorist and all urdu speaking people are so incompetent to stand against MQM, than Mr , Hulk why not come forward and stand ? why not you wet your pants ?? thinking about coming to karachi and say anything against AH ? hahahah

On one hand you are saying that you are not supporter of MQM on other hand you get butthurt if say anything about todd? But anyway why i have to wet my pants, it's you whose pants should wet for not defending Qaid properly.

and that todd live or die , i dont care .. and why would i go and piss on anyone's grave , it might be taught in your culture to piss on people grave or take out bodies from grave and rape them , but not in our cultures ... unfortunately we are not from some baba adam culture or tribal culture , where even girls are used as baby making machines ..

Haha - I knew you will not be able to hold it for longer and will expose what thinking about others prevails among supporters of AH.

so first made your mind , who are you bashing here ? i bash what i dislike ,i have experience bad with many Punjabi so i share it , if you have some do share it

I also have enough of experience with people who have disgusting thinking about others and for example i am quoting where same thread. Enjoy it.

 

[Porus]

You don't need degree in space technology to become civil servant. Most of civil servants at that time were simple BA or MA at max, even today i think in order to appear in CSS exam qualification required is BA. And contrary to your prejudice that all people in west Pakistan were illiterate, People of Punjab were already dominating military and civil administration in this part and Sindhi had reservation about Punjab's dominance even before creation of Pakistan. I am talking about Sindhis here who were at big disadvantage in getting jobs with imposition of Urdu which was totally foreign language for them as unlike Punjab & NWFP in Sindh, Sindhi language was education and official language.

As history is written by the victors, saying something good about Khodai Khedmatgars or Unionists became akin to blasphemy in islam ka qila. But if I was a Punjabi I would have erected a statue of Mian Fazl-i-Husain on the grounds of the Govt. College Lahore to commemorate his unparalleled contributions he made to improving educational opportunities for Punjabi Muslims. When he became the education minister of Punjab he launched various programmes and made different policies to make sure that the Muslim Punjabis soon catch up their non-Muslim brethren in the field of education, and they did it. He opened intermediate colleges, reserved 40% seats for Muslims in prestigious institutions, Muslim students got the lion’s share in free scholarships and soon their attendance increased by 40% in all institutions (Talbot). Because of his policies Punjab became the third most educated province after Bombay and Madras, and was ready to take over the command when Pakistan became independent.

I already told you, when there is already accusation of Punjabization than why we should paint circle on our backs. You allocate jobs as per our population to us, we are happy with it. You remove quota that that's also good for us as we will be able to get even more share than current. So, it's up to smaller provinces to decide which way they are happy. I am talking about federal quotas here, your provincial quotas is none of our concern nor you have any grounds to blame Punjab for it.

Before the partition of India the whole politics of the IML was woven around quota system. People like Sir Syed wanted 50% seats reserved for Muslims in UP where their population was around 12%, and even in Pakistan the first quota system was introduced by Liaquat Ali, Ayub just made some amendments in it. If quota system was a good thing for them in UP, then why it is not good for Sindhis or Balochs in Pakistan today?

 

[Sugarcane]

As history is written by the victors, saying something good about Khodai Khedmatgars or Unionists became akin to blasphemy in islam ka qila. But if I was a Punjabi I would have erected a statue of Mian Fazl-i-Husain on the grounds of the Govt. College Lahore to commemorate his unparalleled contributions he made to improving educational opportunities for Punjabi Muslims. When he became the education minister of Punjab he launched various programmes and made different policies to make sure that the Muslim Punjabis soon catch up their non-Muslim brethren in the field of education, and they did it. He opened intermediate colleges, reserved 40% seats for Muslims in prestigious institutions, Muslim students got the lion’s share in free scholarships and soon their attendance increased by 40% in all institutions (Talbot). Because of his policies Punjab became the third most educated province after Bombay and Madras, and was ready to take over the command when Pakistan became independent.

I would even like to erect statue of Sir. Chhotu Ram for his great work for Punjabies as well but that's not the topic here as i am dealing with mindset which is product of partial and twisted history, and have prejudice that Punjab was home of illiterate, poor and religious fanatic people while in fact it was progressive, economical better and secular state.

Before the partition of India the whole politics of the IML was woven around quota system. People like Sir Syed wanted 50% seats reserved for Muslims in UP where their population was around 12%, and even in Pakistan the first quota system was introduced by Liaquat Ali, Ayub just made some amendments in it. If quota system was a good thing for them in UP, then why it is not good for Sindhis or Balochs in Pakistan today?

You are right that Quota was one of basic demands. But as i stated in my previous posts, i am ok with quota system provided my state gets share as per population, and have no problem in removal of it as well because i am confident that people living in Punjab will be able to secure even more share.