Well PTI IK & PAT Qadri - First Victory - Military Guarantees

[Al Bhatti]

For protecting rights to be in power as per time share government and rule policy constitution must be respected and not violated. What about the rights of the citizens in the very same constitution?

Constitution is worth urinating on if it does not give the citizens it's rights and benefits the nation, the purpose why constitutions are made in the first place.

 

[Panther 57]

1. Asking the army chief to intervene and serve as a mediator in no way reflects on the federal government's control of the civil administration. A handful of protesters led blind by the false promise of dawn are not the civil administration. They are protesters. MNS has lobbied the parliament to pass a majority resolution in his favour denouncing the unconstitutional demands of IK and TuQ. From the perspective of the federal government, MNS has entrenched himself therein and has the support base of not only the PML-N but also all the opposition parties with the exception of the rogue PTI - a support base which outnumbers PTI and PAT 100:1 Est.

MNS has professed a number of times that army should not have any role in politics and has practically tried it too. To which he failed. Thus there is no justification for asking to help in resolution of a political matter. Yes asking army chief to intervene does not indicate failure of authority over civil administration, but refusal of civil administration and police to act without having orders in writing is.

2. If he has lost any moral ground by seeking advice from the ex-President of Pakistan, then so have TuQ and IK by openly calling for bloodshed, disobedience, civilian revolt and declaring insubordination to the constitution. As a matter of fact IK and TuQ are teetering on the edge of political infamy in their attempt to achieve historical firsts.

My note was with regards to MNS, you have your opinion on IK and TuQ. It does not absolve MNS of having his share.

3. NS's refusal to give up the reins of the cabinet is absolutely essential for posterity. The message being, this is not Egypt. We a are plural democracy and if there has been widespread rigging in the elections, then bring the proof, let there be an independent assessment of it and if found guilty then watch us leave and prepare for the next elections. It does not get any more legit than that. I'm surprised you would hasten to ascribe HAT DHARMI to NS but spare both IK and TuQ the cane. They are equally as HAT DHARAM.

Egypt was not the first and will not be last. Street politics has an absolute dynamics. Rigging can be proved through an impartial inquiry committee and that is what IK has been demanding for last 14 months. BTW I am not from PTI. But his demand is right that inquiry and investigation should be done impartially, which is not possible with MNS heading the government. Whole world is witness how they have been influencing the course of law in the matter of Model town.

Despite having had all his demands fulfilled, IK cannot back down from his demand of the PM's resignation because he has trapped himself in a corner. Instead of asking for democracy and justice, the mantra he's been forcing down people's throats for the past 3 weeks is Go Nawaz Go. If Nawaz doesn't go, then IK's loyal flock stands dismayed, as does IK stand embarrassed before them. Say it with me, IK is equally as politically HAT DHARAM as NS. Whereas NS's refusal to yield is based on the continuity of the democratic process, IK's HAT DHARAMI is a reflection of his political aspiration and a matter of personal pride for him.

This is true with regards to all the political leaders they push their words through their followers. Example is JI rallies and PMLN rallies in the last few days. Unfortunately, this is the dilemma of Pakistani politics. IK is not only HAT DHARAM but arrogant also. But his demand is right. But this does not justify MNS arrogance and dictatorship.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

My note was with regards to MNS, you have your opinion on IK and TuQ. It does not absolve MNS of having his share.

The loss of moral leverage is comparative and not independent.

Egypt was not the first and will not be last. Street politics has an absolute dynamics. Rigging can be proved through an impartial inquiry committee and that is what IK has been demanding for last 14 months. BTW I am not from PTI. But his demand is right that inquiry and investigation should be done impartially, which is not possible with MNS heading the government. Whole world is witness how they have been influencing the course of law in the matter of Model town.

The investigation would be carried out by the judiciary, not the federal government. NS has no sway over them whether as PM or otherwise. This is evident from the decision of the Session Courts and the LHC on the registration of the FIR. Therefore Khan's insistence on his resignation is face-saving.

The police are part and parcel of the civil administration and therefore the cabinet's sphere of influence extends to them which is why we all had to bear witness the Model Town debacle. In an ideal state the police, comprising the executive, are independent of both the judiciary and the legislature. Not so here, yet.

 

[Crypto]

I'll send you @Armstrong!

@Aeronaut @Oscar @Dillinger

 

[asad71]

1.Finally the referee, Army, is the winner. But it must be stated that at this stage it looks an exhausted IK+TUQ team have really failed to gain any of their demands beyond promises. IK-TUQ must know it is not easy to pit against the Establishment without total preparation to sustain till achieving goals. NS has also got his wings clipped and will now concentrate to contain his main rival the Army.

2. The first principle of war is Careful Selection of Aim and Maintaining it till the end. Did IK-TUQ select such aims after carefully considering that these would be supported by the people beyond dancing in the street and shouting slogans? The other principle is Maintaining Momentum. The momentum probably peaked on D+5. Thereafter, IK-TUQ ran out of ideas/ammunition to keep the momentum.

 

[HRK]

Don't quote him or IK and assume that anything they say is factual or anything close to it. They are politicians and are playing politics.

well in that case to whom should I quote NS, Saad Rafiq, Khawaja Asif, Abid Sher Ali or Pervez Rashid all of these are also politicians they also state their facts ....

it 'our' responsibility to seek 'our' truth from the 'their' stated 'facts'

 

[Norwegian]

https://twitter.com/x/status/505341452616884224

 

[Viper0011.]

After begging army for rescuing out of the situation, MNS has clearly indicated that his government has no control over civil administration, police and rangers.

In the light of all these facts he has also lost the moral authority to be Prime Minister of Pakistan. When both administrative and moral authority, if still he wants to hold the position, it is nothing more than HAT DHARMI. The whole situation also exposes the character and objectives of these politicians.
@WebMaster @Jazzbot @batmannow @Hyperion

HA! Another out of touch with the reality post:
1) If NS had "BEGGED" the army to schedule "an appointment" with him, he wouldn't have come to the Parliament telling the world he didn't invite military into it. He did say that the military asked the interior minister that they wanted to play a role and that should be allowed.
So your entire argument become invalid right there. Make no mistake, this is a battle against the wrong, illegal tactics that military and other parties supported by the military like. The end result, no matter WHO stays in power or goes, will NOT be to fulfill the illegal demands, as that'll set the stage for the military rule forever. Any party with 20K protestors will seize the country and the capital and would want a change. It doesn't work like this.

2) MORAL authority??? let's discuss this here. Were the threats issued against the government officials to be killed (even before Model Town incident) and threats to bring down the government moral? Tell you Mullah to make a threat like that in Canada, his sorry as* will be in Jail within an hour or two and forever.
Were the Policemen killed and tortured Moral? (picture and videos available online). Were different commercial properties, toll plaza's burnt , destroyed and many police stations attacked, some burnt, Policemen kidnapped, Police buses and ordinary people's cars destroyed by Mullah's followers ON MULLAH's command MORAL??

3) Was violating the LEGAL contracts signed with Islamabad's administration on location and the nature of protests Moral? (alone enough to disqualify IK and Mullah from running politics ever again)

4) Was abandoning the constitutional and starting a Civil Unrest Moral, Legal and Constitutional? Calls to destroy and take over the Parliament, the Prime Minister house, Legal and Moral?

I am not a NS or anyone's fan. I do want Pakistan to grow into a more modern, democratic and economy wise, a mush stronger country as it has all the potential but just a divided nation and the military who has no experience with running a government causing so much damage. However, I do give credit to where its deserved, the government has exercised utmost patient on here. Others would've taken this little platoon of 20k people out long time ago and took them to the jail.

https://twitter.com/x/status/505341452616884224

What's new on here? I told you guys about it three days ago....

 

[Norwegian]

What's new on here? I told you guys about it three days ago....

LOL. Our "elected" PM denied he had asked COAS to intervene in this civilian conflict. Now he has being refuted by ISPR.

 

[Viper0011.]

LOL. Our "elected" PM denied he had asked COAS to intervene in this civilian conflict. Now he has being refuted by ISPR.

There is nothing too personal here or too crazy. You guys are making it sound like OMG. Its nothing, IK and Mullah tried to cause confusion between the government and the military. NS did say he wanted the military to play its positive role as the Army Chief had called and told the Interior Minister (tells you military still follows a protocol to letting the civilian government know and not just do behind them). So its confusion and a meeting with the Army Chief and the Prime Minister will resolve it.
But....for IK and Mullah, you can see how frustrated they are, and they want out and face saving. That will come at a cost for them to pay, i.e. their political future is dead. That's for sure. And military has said it NUMEROUS times, the protection of the capital and the Red Zone is the responsibility of the military. So the boots will go into both of their rears if they cross the line into attacking the Red Zone.
What a Dead End...nowhere to turn, on each side of IK and Mullah....there is a WALL. You look back and the only way out goes through the SAME government and the constitution that these two idiots abused, abandoned and violated!!! This show's about to wrap up. But these two.....political career wise, have been wrapped up forever!

 

[Norwegian]

So the boots will go into both of their rears if they cross the line into attacking the Red Zone.

Ifs and buts, usual rants with no argumentative thought. Army has also said they won't shoot Pakistani civilians.

 

[Luftwaffe]

What's new on here? I told you guys about it three days ago....

You told ppl what? bunch of losers on the backfoot when it is proven Govt lied and DG IPSR clarified that Gov begged for help in other words, which interprets Gov hit last nails in its coffin. Very shameful very disgraceful.

Ifs and buts, usual rants with no argumentative thought. Army has also said they won't shoot Pakistani civilians.

Allah has his ways of disgracing some ppl here we are witnessing some ppl with loud fat mouths being showing the door.

 

[Viper0011.]

all the yahodi food is turning u against us

Took me a while to get the word Yahoodi translated. But Coffee, Donuts and Bagels are not Yahoodi....they are European and international foods. I can't understand your obsession with Jews. They aren't behind Pakistan's problems, you can trust me on that.
And I am not against you. If I was, I'd be supporting the breakup of Pakistan as its in such a messy situation. If you read my posts, I don't care if IK, NS or others rule or not. I do want to see a stable, economically progressing and a SYSTEMATIC Pakistan. Where things are run like a real system and people can finally enjoy a better lifestyle.
There is over 100 BILLION worth of investment stuck in the funnel due to the current situation. If three of these 15 projects complete within the next 3 years, you'll change a DRASTIC economical growth in Pakistan. But two idiots don't want to let the government continue JUST because they know if these projects complete, people will know who really took the country forward. And that's not what they want. When I think about it, I don't know what's more shameful.....allowing a group of 20k people to trying to impose Civil Unrest over a gun point on 200 Million people? or the opportunity sitting and get rotten to grow the country and these two idiots not letting this country to grow. Never seen this kind of crap anywhere on the map. The Golden opportunity is sitting and waiting due to this drama and if this doesn't end, the investors will get scared and leave. None of these two idiots can grow the economy or have a clue about running a system. Beats everyone's common sense

 

[Norwegian]

There is over 100 BILLION worth of investment stuck in the funnel due to the current situation.

Investment? Is this all you business people care about?

 

[Viper0011.]

You told ppl what? bunch of losers on the backfoot when it is proven Govt lied and DG IPSR clarified that Gov begged for help in other words, which interprets Gov hit last nails in its coffin. Very shameful very disgraceful.

Allah has his ways of disgracing some ppl here we are witnessing some ppl with loud fat mouths being showing the door.

Show me where the DGISPR said the government lied please???? Again, lying, miss using words and a lack of sense in your posts. IK and Mullah wanted to cause confusion between the Gov't and the Military as they saw these two working together to putting a boot up their as*. So they tried this trick in reaching out to "meet" the COAS. He notified the Interior Minister and both the Interior Minister and the PM said they would like the Army to meet them and use their positive influence BEFORE Army did an operations to take these guys out of the Red Zone, which would HARM people. Now this doesn't mean that military was running the show. THAT's what the PM said and that's what the DGISPR said. You are reading it incorrectly.

Also, please DON'T bring Allah into these discussions. God has given you or other human beings Wisdom so use it. Threatening a country, its government, getting innocent killed, lying using Religious Context, violating the rights of others (in this case 200 MILLION people), damaging a country's economy, torturing and murdering Policemen, is NOT what any GOD tells you. God tells you to peacefully resolve issues and save lives. Not torture, kill or abuse other humans and IK and Mullah are doing that for their political agenda. Not God.
Please, keep the God out of this discussion as here, you are dealing with Greedy Politicians who are not doing ANYTHING that ANY God says to do.

Investment? Is this all you business people care about?

If you are so smart, how about you tell me what Mullah and Ik are caring about and their agenda is? Let's debate with facts (if you have any) then using scripted statements like its a marketing campaign for Coca Cola??? I am "anxiously" waiting to see some substance from SOMEONE on here.