We Are Soldiers

[Kasrkin]

I do wonder why they didn't go to the Army SSG next, that would've been the logical step. Maybe they're saving it for next season or something.

 

[Xeric]

I do wonder why they didn't go to the Army SSG next, that would've been the logical step. Maybe they're saving it for next season or something.

SSG!

What about the Artillery Kas!

The infantry , then the AC, Artillery should have been the next 'logical' step, i hope he is not missing it out totally!

i was waiting to show you people my guns

he better come back to the Army soon

 

[Xeric]

The materials is not anything new. What I appreciate about the show is the insight to the officers like the interview of Commander, V Corps as well as his CoS. That is the interesting part. Next one ought to be interesting with SSG/N being showcased.

Well Blaini, the interesting part for me is that the Army high command is being quite flexible and 'talking', otherwise you know how 'tight' they are as regards to doctrines.

 

[Kasrkin]

Sorry, did mean to offend you xeric! I know there is a lot of stuff in the Army they could've covered, Special Forces, artillery and even aviation being in that. But what I meant was that the jump from Army to Navy was a little sudden.

We hope to see your guns too.

Well Blaini, the interesting part for me is that the Army high command is being quite flexible and 'talking', otherwise you know how 'tight' they are as regards to doctrines.

They didn't give much away to be honest though. They were vague enough not to merit such concern, but the fact that they're opening up is a great sign.

 

[Xeric]

Sorry, did mean to offend you xeric! I know there is a lot of stuff in the Army they could've covered, Special Forces, artillery and even aviation being in that. But what I meant was that the jump from Army to Navy was a little sudden.

We hope to see your guns too.



They didn't give much away to be honest though. They were vague enough not to merit such concern, but the fact that they're opening up is a great sign.

Sorry for what dear? i was joking and you know it. Anywaz, in the first episode of the show he mentioned the three fighting arms and the supporting arms in such a sequence that it seemed that he would go about the Army first and then towards the other services. BTW, there was no mention of other forces in his opener. And i was still not convinced that he would talk about the PAK and PN (though ships and crafts show up in his promo stuff) until he made it amply clear in his last episode that the next one would on the Navy SSG.

But still, let me tell you the Navy SSG episode would be a treat to watch!

And as for the senior officers opening up, i must say that they ofcourse are wary of what they say, and they must be, but still they are more forthcoming more than ever.

 

[Zulfiqar]

I was impressed at the way they had managed to get all the MBTs and park them together for the briefing. He must have had to pull a few strings I guess.

That clip was shot in school of armor Nowshera.

 

[PAFAce]

SSG!

What about the Artillery Kas!

The infantry , then the AC, Artillery should have been the next 'logical' step, i hope he is not missing it out totally!

i was waiting to show you people my guns

he better come back to the Army soon

Xeric, I couldn't wait for Artillery as well. My Khaloo is Major in Artillery Training Regiment, so I was hoping to see his toys. InshAllah, we'll see it soon.

I do wonder why they didn't go to the Army SSG next, that would've been the logical step. Maybe they're saving it for next season or something.

Kasrkin, I too was surprised to see the immediate jump from Army to Navy, and that too from Armoured Corps to SSGN. Maybe they did that because the SSGN does all the training the SSG offers, and then does underwater demolitions etc. additionally. Therefore, SSGN kind of includes SSG. That is just a guess, ofcourse.

Also, I couldn't wait for Army Aviation. One of my distant Chachoo is in the Army Aviation (sorry, I forgot the rank, but pretty high up) and he's a Cobra pilot.
--------------------------
I haven't revealed this information about my family before because then people think "another guy whose family members are in the military, and so he is military-crazy". In fact, that is not the case at all. I didn't know I had family in the Army until I was almost 10, but I loved the Pakistan Armed Forces long before that. It does suck to not have a family member in the Air Force, however, because that would have been cool (just read MuradK's son's first post, you'll know what I mean).

 

[blain2]

Well Blaini, the interesting part for me is that the Army high command is being quite flexible and 'talking', otherwise you know how 'tight' they are as regards to doctrines.

That was my exact point. I doubt if I have ever seen a serving Corps Commander and his Chief of Staff talk to the TV crews like this. The usual stuff is the tanks and the guns etc. etc. that you get to see quite often. However one rarely gets a peak inside some of the thinking the way they showcased it with those two interviews.

The CoS seems to be related to the Nawab of Pataudi. An interesting lineage.

 

[blain2]

SSG!

What about the Artillery Kas!

The infantry , then the AC, Artillery should have been the next 'logical' step, i hope he is not missing it out totally!

i was waiting to show you people my guns

he better come back to the Army soon

I concur!

Artillery has a special place in the military folklore of Pakistan. In terms of their impact, I think Pakistani Artillery has had a bigger influence in all of the past wars than the AC folks (I know they will take offense to that), but it really is the most powerful arm of the Pakistan Army and also the one that has turned tables quite a few times in the past wars.

 

[All-Green]

I concur!

Artillery has a special place in the military folklore of Pakistan. In terms of their impact, I think Pakistani Artillery has had a bigger influence in all of the past wars than the AC folks (I know they will take offense to that), but it really is the most powerful arm of the Pakistan Army and also the one that has turned tables quite a few times in the past wars.

Artillery is the god of war afterall...

I have to agree that PA Artillery has always been a very professional, aggressive and resourceful branch when under pressure and they have many times given knockout punches to enemy formations.
The forward observers of our Artillery batteries were always a source of great pain to the enemy.
Even the good old AA batteries engaged the IAF in some very brave duels and inflicted heavy losses on the IAF due to their tenacity and courage under fire.

 

[Kasrkin]

Artillery has a special place in the military folklore of Pakistan. In terms of their impact, I think Pakistani Artillery has had a bigger influence in all of the past wars than the AC folks (I know they will take offense to that), but it really is the most powerful arm of the Pakistan Army and also the one that has turned tables quite a few times in the past wars.

Its true. Foreign observers refer to Pakistani artillery as having been particularly effective during the wars. It is unfortunate that our potent but conventional artillery skills are not so useful in this war where the enemy operates from villages and houses as opposed to from bunkers or large formations. People complain about the Pakistan Army using artillery in Swat and FATA, I tell them artillery is what we do best. Hopefully our gunners will be adapting to the new requirements, I’m guessing the emphasis on volume and concentration of firepower will have to be deflected to a more diffuse mode of deployment and operation.

Maybe they did that because the SSGN does all the training the SSG offers, and then does underwater demolitions etc. additionally. Therefore, SSGN kind of includes SSG. That is just a guess, ofcourse.

Yup, a mamo of mine was in the army SSG but served in the SSG/N as well.

 

[Xeric]

Folks remember the Three As of '65 War? They say it was these As which made us win the war:

Allah
Airforce
Artillery

Now i dont want to start an inter-arm war between the AC and artillery. All arms have their importance and has a definite role to play in battle. You take out one and the rest would collapse! Our every arm do best what it is supposed to do.

As for the concern over artillery versus the current operation: you must know that how much deliberation works up before the military decides to make use of an artillery gun. Actually speaking frankly this is not new for the Pakistan Artillery. Artillery have been used in Balochistan but to the minimum, except for an operation or two it was there for the purpose of 'show of force and firepower' (anyone of you who had experienced a shell landing somewhere around 100~300 meters away from him would bare me out as regards to how a gun can piss off the enemy).

Utmost care is seeked before an artillery raid is planned. Now i am not sure how they are making use of the guns in Swat, but what i know is that commander thinks and deliberates a thousands time before he allow the artillery to open up in a BUA! Actually sorry yanks, we are not operating in Afghanistan, we are still inside Pakistan (well that was some sheer sarcasm Coming back to the 'houses and villages' against the artillery: Artillery may not be that effective in a BUA due to the obvious reasons, but then we also dont have drones and sat imagery (for the airforce) to target with pin point accuracy. Yes the airforce does it best when it comes to PGMs but that's something to be made use of when things get clearer as a particular battle progresses. Moreover, deserted villages cause no human-damage-fear but still it would not mean that the artillery would go on a bunker busting spree which actually may be home to some innocent civilian.

In the last i can assure you that the military make the best, efficient and most importantly justifiable, ethical and wary use of any gadgetry that it has on its inventory.

 

[Kasrkin]

(anyone of you who had experienced a shell landing somewhere around 100~300 meters away from him would bare me out as regards to how a gun can piss off the enemy).

I hope you haven’t experienced any such thing! It would be a ridiculous risk and you'd almost certainly be dead if the shell were airburst. Its painful enough being near a 155mm when its fired, let alone the shell exploding on your head!

Ah, 3 'A's of 65, I like that !

 

[Xeric]

I hope you haven’t experienced any such thing! It would be a ridiculous risk and you'd almost certainly be dead if the shell were airburst. Its painful enough being near a 155mm when its fired, let alone the shell exploding on your head!

Ah, 3 'A's of 65, I like that !

Well yes i have experinced artillery fire first hand i.e. at the receiving end! It was when i served in Kashmir and Siachen.

Let me assure you it is terrible!

Let me teach you some ballistics
The stuff that happens at the gun end is different that occurs at the target end. The simplest and a basic example that i can give you is that the sound that you experience at the gun end when any gun fires is due to the "Explosion", which is defined as 'rapid burning of anything' i.e. the blast that occurs when some gun powder burns or the propellant ignites.

Now the stuff the take place at the target end is not explosion, it is called as 'Detonation", which is defined as the 'molecular disintegration of mass or something' Now that's the killer! The blast, the sound that is produced when the gun fires and the detonation taht takes place when a shell explodes is very different in nature. A simplest way to make you understand is that an explosion would not push your heart to your mouth, but the detonation would definitely pump you heart up to the throat even if you experience that sound from far away (point to consider is that the effect of being at the receiving end is omitted in this experiment, i mean that dont consider the 'enemy' factor in this, i am just talking about the sound and the blast wave)

The closest brush that i had with a shell was somewhere near the indian border when i was taking an air-burst shoot and an 155 mm shell landed just beside me...dont worry ..lolzz... it landed just on the opposite side of that boulder (when i say boulder i men a huge boulder, may be like 15 x 12 feet) to which i was shouldering as i couldnt observe the fire from my bunker so i had to get out to direct it.

The result: had a bleeding ear, couldn't feel my head for the next few days and had a tiny piece of splinter touched my upper arm after it re-bounded from the ground!


Oh yes and i am surprised that you missed the As till yet!?

 

[blain2]

I was going to write about the triple A's but you beat me to it. Interestingly enough, some Pakistani writers of late have taken the Artillery out and have written about the 3 A's of the 65 war as Allah, Airforce and America (even though Amreekis were no where around and it was the Artillery that saved the day).

While I too have never been on the receiving side, but I have seen a lot of the post detonation/impact sites in Pakistan and the most vicious of it beyond the blast and sound is the shrapnel. You put your hand on it and it can be cut in multiple ways. The pieces of shrapnel would give one an idea as to how insanely effective artillery fire is even if you are nowhere close to the blast, these small pieces (anywhere from sub inch to 8-9 inches long) would cut a body into two. The shrapnel is sharper than most of the finely sharpened daggers and knives around and every edge of the shrapnel is pretty much a blade.

After seeing this, one has no option but to come away with immense awe for the Artillery.