Was Ataturk spy for British against Ottoman Empire?

[Pakistanisage]

You could understand it with ease if you care to compare Pakistan with Turkey.

Pakistan is a Nuclear Nation. I think very highly of Pakistan. Unfortunately I have very low opinion of some Turks who prefer to be lackeys of the West. I think very highly of Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Abdulla Gul.

 

[IbnAlwaled]

Turks is not ONLY Ottoman, Tatars for example are also Turks they ruled over Russia.

Didn't you mean Ottomans are not the only Turks?

 

[TurAr]

Pakistan is a Nuclear Nation. I think very highly of Pakistan. Unfortunately I have very low opinion of some Turks who prefer to be lackeys of the West. I think very highly of Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Abdulla Gul.

I think very highly of Pakistan too and i Respect Pakistan. I would never disrespect Pakistan's values like you are doing to Turkey's.

The basic rule is that even if you vehemently disagree with a member, you are not supposed to be abusive.

Can we disagree with someone without calling someone an IDIOT ?

There is a difference between disagreeing with someone and disagreeing with idiots. And if some one calls the man who crushed british-backed invasion forces a "british agent" then he is idiot !

 

[Pakistanisage]

I think very highly of Pakistan too and i Respect Pakistan. I would never disrespect Pakistan's values like you are doing to Turkey's.



There is a difference between disagreeing with someone and disagreeing with idiots. And if some one calls the man who crushed british-backed invasion forces a "british agent" then he is idiot !

The way to deal with such people is to destroy their logic through the weight of your LOGIC. BTW, If you go back to post # 209 , you will see my comments where I wrote about this useless nature of this thread and its poster. Pakistani people have a lot of love for Turkish people and its President and Prime Minister. It is stupid for a Pakistani to say anything negative about Mustafa Kemal Pasha because Turkish people adore him and it is a very sensitive topic for them. This Thread is nothing but a flame bait and I do not support this silly thread.

 

[TurAr]

The way to deal with such people is to destroy their logic through the weight of your LOGIC. BTW, If you go back to post # 209 , you will see my comments where I wrote about this useless nature of this thread and its poster. Pakistani people have a lot of love for Turkish people and its President and Prime Minister. It is stupid for a Paksitani to say anything negative about Mustafa Kemal Pasha because Turkish people adore him and it is a very sensitive topic for them. This Thread is nothing but a flame bait and I do not support this silly thread.

Their logic has already been destroyed: "calls the man who crushed british-backed invasion forces a "british agent"......" see?

I didn't mean you are supporting the troll but you are disrespecting Turkey by saying "lackey". Our contry has a goal to adopt Western ethics, human rights and democracy to Turkey which has set by Ataturk. This does not mean we are being 'lackey' of the west.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Zulkernayn, Pakistani people feel very close to Turkish People but I have to qualify myself. We respect people like Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Abdulla Gul and ordinary Turks like yourself, Zulkernayn. The reason is we can relate to Muslim Turks like yourself is because your ideas and values are similar to ours and these ideas resonate with us. There are other Turks like some on this Forum who frankly are from PLANET MARS as far as we are concerned. I find people like " Leggionaire, Targon, what and others " RUDE and ARROGANT and we have no love or Patience for them.

BTW, I do not support this thread nor am I a fan of Raptor because his motivation in starting this thread was obviously to start a flame war.

So please help me understand what percentage of Turks are people like you and what percentage are like Leggionnaire ?

I know this won't be a scientific survey and just your opinion but your opinion is good enough for me. So please give me your estimate.

Mate i have wasted my whole day taking their bs and trying to answer in a respectful way. And i can take much, because i know a bunch of fanatics whose only weapon is curse and flame cannot bring the truth down. If you read the whole thread you will realize the true face of these Kemalists.

As for your question. The majority of Kemalists vote for the CHP, and last time there was election they got about 25%, so it is not that much. But i also know that these Kemalists try very hard to manipulate via their internet trolls. Many are actually getting paid to spread their propoganda and trick weak minds like Ottomanturk. And they succeed.

Most importantly they don't represent the Muslim Turks. We do...

 

[TurAr]

About Zulkarneyn:

I counted 42 Kemalist in the last 10 messages of Zulkarneyn. This guy is amazing. Even in a forum like this he provoked every one, Indians, Pakistanis, Arabs, Kemalists, Kurds, Nationalists (Ülkücü) by his disrespect towards Atatürk , yet he is still accusing every one by being Kemalists just because they are respecting or loving him.
The only ones who is agreeing with him are the forum's well known trolls, such as NeutralCitizen and Raptor.

He is close-minded and obsessed with Kemalists and Ataturk. I wouldn't recommend you to take him serious. Just read the thread, you'll see.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Their logic has already been destroyed: "calls the man who crushed british-backed invasion forces a "british agent"......" see?

I didn't mean you are supporting the troll but you are disrespecting Turkey by saying "lackey". Our contry has a goal to adopt Western ethics, human rights and democracy to Turkey which has set by Ataturk. This does not mean we are being 'lackey' of the west.

@TurAr, with due respect let me ask you a straightforward question.

Are you respecting HUMAN RIGHTS, when you eject one of our TURKISH SISTERS from the halls of a Turkish Institution for wearing a Hijab/Scarf ?

Democracy implies you allow people the freedom to dress according to their choice, as long as they are not appearing near nude.

How is it ethical and democratic when you look down upon religious people and not allow them freedom of observing the requisites of their religious edict, as long as those rights are not interfering with the rights of others.

You talk of Western Standards but you don't have a clue about Western Standards of Democracy and Freedom.

My friend I live in New York City, USA. We Americans promote the concepts of Western Democracy. I am a college Professor and I have a few Muslim students who attend our University and they free to wear a scarf and any dress that is modest and not display nudity.

I don't think you truly understand the Western concepts of Freedom and Democracy.

 

[TurAr]

@TurAr, with due respect let me ask you a straightforward question.

Are you respecting HUMAN RIGHTS, when you eject one of our TURKISH SISTERS from the halls of a Turkish Institution for wearing a Hijab/Scarf ?

I'm against it. An adult person should wear as s/he like.

Democracy implies you allow people the freedom to dress according to their choice, as long as they are not appearing near nude.

Agreed. But we might have a disagreement depending on how you percieve 'near nude'.

How is it ethical and democratic when you look down upon religious people and not allow them freedom of observing the requisites of their religious edict, as long as those rights are not interfering with the rights of others.

That is why we need secularism. A western value...

You talk of Western Standards but you don't have a clue about Western Standards of Democracy and Freedom.

I know that it is much much better than the 'eastern freedom and democracy'.

My friend I live in New York City, USA. We Americans promote the concepts of Western Democracy. I am a college Professor and I have Muslim students who are free to wear a scarf and any dress that is modest and not display nudity.

I don't think you truly understand the Western concepts of Freedom and Democracy.

O RLY?

 

[Pakistanisage]

I'm against it. An adult person should wear as s/he like.



Agreed. But we might have a disagreement depending on how you percieve 'near nude'.



That is why we need secularism. A western value...



I know that it is much much better than the 'eastern freedom and democracy'.



O RLY?

As long as you respect the freedoms and rights of your fellow citizens ( and that includes the Turkish Muslims ), you and I are on the same page

 

[Deno]

@TurAr, with due respect let me ask you a straightforward question.

Are you respecting HUMAN RIGHTS, when you eject one of our TURKISH SISTERS from the halls of a Turkish Institution for wearing a Hijab/Scarf ?

Whats that have anything to do with Mustafa Kemal? Scarf ban was created by Military junta after 80 coup...

 

[LegionnairE]

Let's make this clear, nobody would be here if we didn't like pakistan or her people but Raptor way, way passed this point. He abused our values just because they don't suit him and he meddled with our inside affairs he didn't have a clue about.

People don't know anything about what we did to saved ourselves from utter destruction and what sacrifices we gave, what pains we endured. But same ignorant people feel free to curse some of us and a part of our history. Which isn't acceptable and which isn't open for discussion.

Someone calls your mother a prostitute you do not discuss with him you beat him to the ground.
Simple as that.

@deno, i told zulkarneyn numerous times, those were cold war times. Today's that we enjoyed so much isn't about AKP it's more about end of cold war. People are mocking at us because of this because of last CHP adminstration's refusal for the change. In 1980 people fvcking wellcomed the coup.

 

[clmeta]

Ataturk was a great man.

 

[King Solomon]

To the haters of Ataturk: I'm still waiting for the answer to my previous question:

Why did the British Empire care to attack the Ottoman empire (militarily) if Ataturk was really a British agent? I mean, if say Ataturk was a british agent, as RaptorX07 is proclaiming, the British could just install him in power. They did not have to lose hundreds of thousands of soldiers fighting the Ottoman army.

 

[ovarel]

People don't know anything about what we did to saved ourselves from utter destruction and what sacrifices we gave, what pains we endured. But same ignorant people feel free to curse some of us and a part of our history. Which isn't acceptable and which isn't open for discussion.

Is this how you respond to the criticisms of Kemal?

People who suffered were not kemalists. You cant defend Kemal and his ideas by exploiting the blood of others.

But this is what you and your kinds do all the time.