War Strategy: The collapse of Cold Start

[Markus]

Who is india to judge that what will and will not provoke nuclear response from India?? We might be triggered by something as small as military buildup on the border. Pakistan should invest in small tactical nukes to lay waste vast swath of Indian infantry inside Pakistani desserts without inflicting any damage to its citizen.

Usage of tactical nukes against Indian infantry on Pakistani territory WILL ALSO nullify Indian no first use policy, then we know where the entire region could be heading to................

 

[nescafe]

Ya, our air force is just another flying club.



This again goes on to show that you have some growing up to do.



Well if there is no doctrine, then whats the point of having an exercise.



No all operations are like "Black Hawk Down".



The NSG reached late. The MARCOS where on time & did a good job of containing the terrorists.



Again. Please grow up!!

, some doctrines are for real professionals. uptill now, south asians and chinese are still FOLLOWING german and americans combat doctrines. we will take more time to really GROW UP as indigenous minds and proven fighters.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Who is india to judge that what will and will not provoke nuclear response from India?? We might be triggered by something as small as military buildup on the border. Pakistan should invest in small tactical nukes to lay waste vast swath of Indian infantry inside Pakistani desserts without inflicting any damage to its citizen.

Judgement is based on the military preparedness of your Country... In this war time .. your country is at high time prepared there is no way cold start can work.. How ever cold start was a doctrine proposed by Army after the parliament attack as it took several weeks to deploy the forces at the border..

Bold part look sense... but developing small nukes is going to be more technology challenge and will surely cost several billion dollars if you want to miniaturize things..

 

[prototype]

Another keyboard warrior low on military IQ

1. India does not have any air penetration capability

go and research once again on IAF,Pakistani area is so small that even Somalian AF can penetrate with ease

2. their special forces are not special as we have seen in mumbai attacks. there is yet an event to come that will show that indian special forces are any good. the flying bandit scarfs look good only in pics.

Mumbai was one of the toughest commando operation undertaken by this time,plenty of countries had undertaken tactical drills after the incident to cope up with such a situation,what i know is that eventually we were the one who succeeded.

3. no evidence of any war games or excercises based on cold war tactics

because cold start does not exist,this had been reiterated infinite times by different power holders in India,but ur obsession is so hard that u people r not ready to believe,and arrived at a lame conclusion that we failed in activating it

4. all pakistani strategic locations are near air defence divisions. they are open vast lands where air bourne troops could be sitting ducks. the war on terror has trained p@ki soldiers for ruthless tactical conflicts.and i am sure talibans are better fighters then most of the special forces around the world.

Another vague statement,incursion's is not only about airlifting,it is also about penetration of ground troops,no govt in the world is so naive that they will air drop thousands of troops in to a hostile territory without neutralizing the threat

5.do some one remember what excuse indian navy commandoes had when they reached late during mumbai attacks?? they claimed no one provided them with a transport bus.

a correction,it was not a bus

and by the way what it had to do with their capability,definitely arriving lately had its own menacing effect,but like i said earlier they at the end flushed out the terrorists

6.in short india does not have any of the things which are rquired for cold start, like airborne precision, speedy and proven special forces, air drop facilities, experience and communication system

In short do a proper research

7. one more thing. you need atleast 2 air borne divisions to attack around 2 dozen sites of pakistan.

do u know the size of IAF

 

[nescafe]

go and research once again on IAF,Pakistani area is so small that even Somalian AF can penetrate with ease

well, i dont think ground forces can penetrate (without air drop) up till tarbella, or sargodha or karachi...(i am not mentioning vague places which i very well know)

general sahab, if your forces penetrate even beyond muridke, then there will no need for cold start. it will be a full scale war already by that time.

no, you cannot penetrate pakistan pakistani planes are better interceptors. smaller size means better CAP.

i give you a practical hint, can you air drop men at chasma and nuetralize it....i bet even marines cant do that...take a look how vast it is. it has snipers, it has PAF base, it has its own RADAR...

now google it asap.

 

[Xestan]

I live in Lahore, I have visited the border areas many times, it's so impressive to know that near the Wahgah border and other areas in Lahore sector, the trenches and other war time used places are as new as they were in 1965..

There's a whole plan to stop Indian forces at the borders,

When Pakistan's doctrine states that we'll take the war into Enemy's land, then we surely meant it

 

[ginger]

India can't apply Cold Start...it's worth not doing even... I don't understand why we want surgical strikes either.... u kill ppl like lakhavi today... there are 2 more to deal with tommarrow.... then wht we do.

1. get away with No first use policy.

2. Use Nukes against pakistan.... even if we don't use it still it is no guarantee that Pak will not use against us.... Pakistan is our North Korea.

3. Threat of large scale destruction... either way this huge population and rampant corruption going to eat us alive from inside...

My vote goes to full scale war against Pakistan....

 

[GMSS]

I live in Lahore, I have visited the border areas many times, it's so impressive to know that near the Wahgah border and other areas in Lahore sector, the trenches and other war time used places are as new as they were in 1965..

There's a whole plan to stop Indian forces at the borders,

When Pakistan's doctrine states that we'll take the war into Enemy's land, then we surely meant it

ur plan had seen the result in kargil,so it is flopped

 

[Markus]

India can't apply Cold Start...it's worth not doing even... I don't understand why we want surgical strikes either.... u kill ppl like lakhavi today... there are 2 more to deal with tommarrow.... then wht we do.

1. get away with No first use policy.

2. Use Nukes against pakistan.... even if we don't use it still it is no guarantee that Pak will not use against us.... Pakistan is our North Korea.

3. Threat of large scale destruction... either way this huge population and rampant corruption going to eat us alive from inside...

My vote goes to full scale war against Pakistan....

I dont know why but I feel like agreeing with what you wrote above, especially the last sentence !

 

[nescafe]

India can't apply Cold Start...it's worth not doing even... I don't understand why we want surgical strikes either.... u kill ppl like lakhavi today... there are 2 more to deal with tommarrow.... then wht we do.

1. get away with No first use policy.

2. Use Nukes against pakistan.... even if we don't use it still it is no guarantee that Pak will not use against us.... Pakistan is our North Korea.

3. Threat of large scale destruction... either way this huge population and rampant corruption going to eat us alive from inside...

My vote goes to full scale war against Pakistan....

there is one very important thing that we all need to understand and keep in our minds forever.

there is no second use policy!! the second strike capability is only manufactured to strike in case one has remained lazy in acting prompt.....

no army plans on second use / no first strike / second strike option. if indians know our missiles are ready, they will fire first.second strike is a LIE.

 

[ginger]

there is one very important thing that we all need to understand and keep in our minds forever.

there is no second use policy!! the second strike capability is only manufactured to strike in case one has remained lazy in acting prompt.....

no army plans on second use / no first strike / second strike option. if indians know our missiles are ready, they will fire first.second strike is a LIE.

Both India and pakistan have Second strike capability... we all knew this... Pakistan have more fissile material and deep under ground bunkers to withstand first blow and go for second... so does India dew its geographical depth and powerful Naval force.....India already making large underground complexes for not just weapons but also for banking database... agriculture genomes and other things require after " Day after Tommarrow"

 

[Leviza]

Both India and pakistan have Second strike capability... we all knew this... Pakistan have more fissile material and deep under ground bunkers to withstand first blow and go for second... so does India dew its geographical depth and powerful Naval force.....India already making large underground complexes for not just weapons but also for banking database... agriculture genomes and other things require after " Day after Tommarrow"

" Day after Tommarrow"

Its not about the nuke war b/w two countries this topic is about "The collapse of Cold Start" so stay on topic...........

bharti army and generals have said alot about this Cold Start so indians cannot deny it ... and now its proved that its a FAIL....

 

[Joe Shearer]

Or more like India does not has the capability to launch something on the lines of a Cold Start and Pakistan having the necessary deterrent capabilities to thwart aggression from India. Last i read India was threatening Pakistan with surgical strikes and a war, so i wouldn't blame Pakistan's military for being obsessed with India's hegemonic designs against Pakistan. Also last i checked, if Pakistan purchases a single bullet India starts screaming from the top of her lungs. Should tell you volumes of who is obsessed with whom

For the sake of simplicity, surgical strikes have nothing to do with Cold Start. Try not to get confused. Try to figure out (by reading around judiciously) that Cold Start was a concept supposed to work around the time taken to get a 1.0 + plus force rolling, and never got to ground level, not because of pusillanimity, but because of logistics, lack of money for re-equipping the strike divisions, lack of coordination with the air force, unwillingness of the pols to give a definite yes or no and their preference for strategic ambiguity, in spite of learning that this paid no dividends, and several other issues.

It never was.

It never will be, unless basics are fixed.

This is all a storm in a tea-cup; it was fanboys who got excited, it was fanboys who got disappointed, or triumphant, depending on the direction of the border and the colour of their pants. Professionals never were bothered.

 

[tallboy123]

I live in Lahore, I have visited the border areas many times, it's so impressive to know that near the Wahgah border and other areas in Lahore sector, the trenches and other war time used places are as new as they were in 1965..

There's a whole plan to stop Indian forces at the borders,

When Pakistan's doctrine states that we'll take the war into Enemy's land, then we surely meant it

U r doctrine flopped in Kargil..
Try another

 

[Xestan]

U r doctrine flopped in Kargil..
Try another

Point 5353, the highest hill at Kargil is still in our control