War Memorial of A Indian & Pakistani in Yokohama, Japan 1939-1945

[Darth Vader]

The war was fought by the indian troops
No pakistan existed before 1947 so yeah the title for memorial is right

AHA My dear you forgot 1 thing it was hindustan NOT INDIA .....

 

[Echo_419]

AHA My dear you forgot 1 thing it was hindustan NOT INDIA .....

So you are denying the fact that pakistan existed before 1947
As claimed by many pakistani members

 

[bravo45]

What are you exactly mad about, sir? The World War was a historic event. It is one thing for us in 2013 to criticise the political entities who fought the war and another to be there at that time and experience it. Colonisation was not right but nothing in History was ever done on the basis of morality. Sadly, history has moved in the direction of immediate circumstances rather than complex philosophical reasoning. In my view the 1971 war was wrong but that gives me no right to ridicule or judge anyone who fought it from either side (India, Bangladesh or my beloved Pakistan) they were brave men who fought for what they believed in. Much more brave than you or I. Please, keep your criticism intellectual rather than personal; we can jugde history as students, not men as individuals.

Regards.

So your morals change with time... mine don't.. Morals are only morals when they apply every time. And you are sitting giving excuses for NOT using morals. That is what they did, that is what you are doing..... see 1947 or 2013, its the same thing. Its all about what is in your head. And its all rotten... just like what was planted by the Brits in their years of colonization. They must be glad it is still strong in the likes of you.

Just because you think nothing has been done on the basis of morality doesn't make it so. All I have to do is give you one example to prove you wrong.

"Sadly, history has moved in the direction of immediate circumstances rather than complex philosophical reasoning."

Really?? I mean.... REALLY??????????? You actually believe that?? Its ALL been about philosophical reasoning!!!!! Read the British propaganda from back in the day justifying their acts.... They were "bringing civilization to the uncivilized". So were the settlers who went to America and killed off the natives. Now the Americans are "Spreading the gift of democracy." You really need to get a grip.

So you have no right to ridicule or judge anyone who fought for what he believed in??????????? In your mind the idiot who killed a Bengali had that right and the Begali/Indians who slaughtered the Biharis had that right and should not be judged??

I am sorry I will never be like you.

My criticism is of the mentality that produces graves like the one above. And while you may argue that had no bearing on today's events, let me tell you.... everything that is wrong in our part of the world is BECAUSE of that mentality!!

A mentality that, for example considers someone speaking English as superior to the one speaking the native language in our part of the world.

You be proud of that.. be proud of those idiots that fought for a Queen that had enslaved his ancestor and himself, and he would be happy to know that his grandchildren are still enslaved mentally despite having been "free for over 50 years".

Sweet dreams!!!


Oh and BTW none of this is personal. I didn't change one word because you were who you were, Muslim/Hindu or Pakistani/Indian. My view depends on the issue and not the individual. That is moral IMO. No offence to you personally, but its this mentality that I hate and I won't sugar coat it. I am willing to correct myself if I am wrong, but I need to be convinced... and I will never be convinced into slavery. They were no braver than sheep going to the slaughter house. Now I can respect sheep, but not those who had a brain and decided not to use it. If anything they were not brave enough to stand up to their owners and preferred to die for their masters. No respect for that from me EVER!!

 

[bravo45]

no.. we are third world country because we could not get onto the industrial revolution... and do not have natural resources that can bring loads of money (oil for example) and there are too many of us..and we are less productive than others..

But then, if you are still in high school, dont worry, you have enough time to read and understand these things.
peace...

Maybe that's what they teach to you in your high school that was established by the Brits. Didn't they tell you WHY you could not get onto the industrial revolution?? lol

Iran imports more close to 70% of its oil if you know, look it up. Canada, one of the leading oil producers sends its crude to the US to be refined and then BUYS IT BACK.

You enjoy your high school, being "less productive" and believe that you will always stay a third world country... That's the spirit!!

^^Peace out!!!

 

[bravo45]

It was as much our war as it was anyone else's. 2.5 million troops from the subcontinent fought for the Allies - this was the largest volunteer army in WW-2. There is a lot of grey in WW-2 leaders - Bose allied with Hitler; Churchill / Roosevelt allied with the Soviets; Britain sunk their ally France's fleet lest it be used by the Germans. India played a big role in the liberation of China from the Japanese.

Way to go... liberating the enslaved.. BRITISH INDIA!! I am LMAO here!!! Brits destroyed the fleet of its ally least it be used by their enemy... and here we are, SLAVES fighting for the victory of their owners. Bollywood couldn't have written it any stupider.

The british indian army surrendered en mass to the Japanese forces in the east ( 80,000 British, Indian and Australian troops surrendered to the Japanese ) , out of those indians who surrendered to japan , they formed the indian national army and made Subhash Chandra Bose its leader.

The INA was eventually defeated in the Burma campaign and their leader Chandra Bode died in mysterious circumstances.
Chandra Bose is still not fully acknowledged as an icon of struggle against the british in india due to his disagreement with half naked gandhi and also perhaps due to his alignment with Adlolf Hitler

This topic merits a separate thread

I think THIS is the real topic here. It doesn't merit a separate thread IMO. In fact this is the real issue

 

[bravo45]

Sir,

Only your 2nd post on the board----and you have already made to "not spitting" at things.

Mister---could it be that you maybe not cut for this board----I mean to say---have some respect.

Have respect for what?? I am cut for the right things, and this was wrong so no respect. In your opinion the time spent on a forum = respect. I would rather look at the argument. I didn't disrespect anyone but the notion for which these idiots fought and died for. What is amazing is that the notion lives on and people actually defend it even now so long after their so called freedom.

 

[Jackdaws]

Way to go... liberating the enslaved.. BRITISH INDIA!! I am LMAO here!!! Brits destroyed the fleet of its ally least it be used by their enemy... and here we are, SLAVES fighting for the victory of their owners. Bollywood couldn't have written it any stupider.



I think THIS is the real topic here. It doesn't merit a separate thread IMO. In fact this is the real issue

Clearly, you need to know the difference between being colonization and slavery. India was not a slave plantation like Alabama or anything. Besides India - other countries which were part of the Empire were Canada, NZ and Australia. They too had to struggle to get dominion status and independence but they did fight for the Allies. You need to get over your inferiority complex.

 

[bravo45]

Clearly, you need to know the difference between being colonization and slavery. India was not a slave plantation like Alabama or anything. Besides India - other countries which were part of the Empire were Canada, NZ and Australia. They too had to struggle to get dominion status and independence but they did fight for the Allies. You need to get over your inferiority complex.

Clearly you have no self-respect like those shown in the video. Clearly you are willing to hide behind the other idiots like the Canadians etc etc. Clearly you will not understand what dignity of the likes demonstrated by Muhammad Ali etc feels like. Clearly you have no problem with the fact that bloody Indians fought alongside idiots from Canada, New Zealand, South Africa and Australia, fought for the British cause, against Italians and Germans on ARAB land in North Africa for example.

It is YOU suffering inferiority complex from your white overlords and believe that the only way out of their yoke of oppression was to prostitute yourself, your parents, your family and your entire nation. India can be proud of that, and can claim all these idiots. As a Pakistan I refuse to own anything they did, or the likes of them are doing today. I am free, I was born free and Inshallah will die free.

Clearly you have not only no sense of vision of your own, but can't even emulate what you believe to be your own masters: The British on how they sided with the MOST evil regime (and they knew it then) namely Stalin; Only to defeat their enemy. Heck as someone already mentioned how they destroyed the French fleet killing their own allies when it was something they thought was in their interest.

"It is better to live one day as a Lion, than 100 years as a Sheep" Tipu Sulta.
Another quotation from the very days of WWII states that "It is better to die on your feet than to live crawling on your knees." I thought these were easy enough to understand for anyone with one brain cell working. But apparently dying young as a proud sheep of your overlords is something that is being cherished here... You people are hopeless!!! Those who can see when shown the truth will find the above to be enough. I won't waste my time here. This is my last response in this thread. You all can resume your British/white lovefest uninterrupted now.

 

[Jackdaws]

Clearly you have no self-respect like those shown in the video. Clearly you are willing to hide behind the other idiots like the Canadians etc etc. Clearly you will not understand what dignity of the likes demonstrated by Muhammad Ali etc feels like. Clearly you have no problem with the fact that bloody Indians fought alongside idiots from Canada, New Zealand, South Africa and Australia, fought for the British cause, against Italians and Germans on Arab land.

You have the inferiority complex from your white overlords and believe that the only way out of their yoke of oppression was to prostitute yourself, your parents, and your family.

Clearly you have not only no sense of vision of you own but can't even emulate what you believe to be your own masters, The British on how they sided with the MOST evil regime (and they knew it then) namely Stalin; Only to defeat their enemy.

You people are hopeless. Those who can see when shown the truth will find the above to be enough. I won't waste my time in a the sea of idiots any more. This is my last response in this thread. You all can resume your British/white lovefest uninterrupted.

Hahaha - Muhammad Ali refused to be drafted in the Vietnam war, not in World War 2. Clearly, you need to read a bit more. Do you even know what the Axis powers do in the land they captured? Just ask the Poles in the West or the Chinese in the East. Perhaps in your inferiority complex ridden world it would have been ideal to either side with the Axis powers or to sit like a coward and do nothing.

 

[bravo45]

Hahaha - Muhammad Ali refused to be drafted in the Vietnam war, not in World War 2. Clearly, you need to read a bit more.

Your absolutely amazing hypocrisy/stupidity has forced to post one last time.

Let alone studying history, you lecturing me on studying didn't even bother to read my earlier posts where I point that out. Post # 7 on first page if you are illiterate enough to need help finding it. Hypocrisy is in your genes too I guess.

As for the rest, I won't even dignify that would a response. I think we both wish you were there. I would have been happier if my dealing with you was limited to looking at a gravestone in this video than to suffer your idiocy. I am just glad stupid is not contagious!!!

 

[Jackdaws]

Your absolutely amazing hypocrisy/stupidity has forced to post one last time.

Let alone studying history, you lecturing me on studying didn't even bother to read my earlier posts where I point that out. Post # 7 on first page if you are illiterate enough to need help finding it. Hypocrisy is in your genes too I guess.

As for the rest, I won't even dignify that would a response. I think we both wish you were there. I would have been happier if my dealing with you was limited to looking at a gravestone in this video than to suffer your idiocy. I am just glad stupid is not contagious!!!

Guess who else supported the British War effort? jinnah and the Muslim league. Surprised me you know stupid is not contagious since you do seem to believe more in fantasy than fact. Oh well.

 

[jaibi]

So your morals change with time... mine don't.. Morals are only morals when they apply every time. And you are sitting giving excuses for NOT using morals. That is what they did, that is what you are doing..... see 1947 or 2013, its the same thing. Its all about what is in your head. And its all rotten... just like what was planted by the Brits in their years of colonization. They must be glad it is still strong in the likes of you.

Just because you think nothing has been done on the basis of morality doesn't make it so. All I have to do is give you one example to prove you wrong.

"Sadly, history has moved in the direction of immediate circumstances rather than complex philosophical reasoning."

Really?? I mean.... REALLY??????????? You actually believe that?? Its ALL been about philosophical reasoning!!!!! Read the British propaganda from back in the day justifying their acts.... They were "bringing civilization to the uncivilized". So were the settlers who went to America and killed off the natives. Now the Americans are "Spreading the gift of democracy." You really need to get a grip.

So you have no right to ridicule or judge anyone who fought for what he believed in??????????? In your mind the idiot who killed a Bengali had that right and the Begali/Indians who slaughtered the Biharis had that right and should not be judged??

I am sorry I will never be like you.

My criticism is of the mentality that produces graves like the one above. And while you may argue that had no bearing on today's events, let me tell you.... everything that is wrong in our part of the world is BECAUSE of that mentality!!

A mentality that, for example considers someone speaking English as superior to the one speaking the native language in our part of the world.

You be proud of that.. be proud of those idiots that fought for a Queen that had enslaved his ancestor and himself, and he would be happy to know that his grandchildren are still enslaved mentally despite having been "free for over 50 years".

Sweet dreams!!!


Oh and BTW none of this is personal. I didn't change one word because you were who you were, Muslim/Hindu or Pakistani/Indian. My view depends on the issue and not the individual. That is moral IMO. No offence to you personally, but its this mentality that I hate and I won't sugar coat it. I am willing to correct myself if I am wrong, but I need to be convinced... and I will never be convinced into slavery. They were no braver than sheep going to the slaughter house. Now I can respect sheep, but not those who had a brain and decided not to use it. If anything they were not brave enough to stand up to their owners and preferred to die for their masters. No respect for that from me EVER!!

I will go out of line here, sir, and say that frankly you are either quite young or you are immature or you are quite narrow-minded or possibly you are not good at comprehending what's being said and deciphering what you think is being said and what is actually being said.

Firstly, you have the entire colonial period wrong. Colonisation came first and then came the Western civilisaition's claim of civilising us; what you referred to actually started from a famous/infamous poem called 'The White Man's Burden' by Rudard Kipling which was published in 1899. I am sure you are aware that colonisation came before that. In actuality most non-Europeans for Europeans were 'Barbarian infidels' and the same was the perception of the East, especially the Middle Eastern Muslim kingdoms, and this perception came out during the Crusades, long before colonisation. Read up on your history.

Secondly, the practice of making morals out of history does not preceed but proceeds history; it is one of the perhaps greatest accomplishments of Marx and his concept of Mateiral Dialects which shows how latent perceptions form after the material event. e.g. Easterners were not savages for the Greeks in the ancient era, in fact, Persian political philosophy was taught to Alexander and he verbally appreciated the Persian civilisation. The Romans actively fought wars with the Persians and saw them as potential competitors for they were sociologically oriented towards integration (letting local cultures remain intact) rather than the Roman subjugation (heavy intrusion of Roman culture). The 'material' events that lead to the Middle Ages led the Church to channel the infighting Christian kingdoms towards a common enemy and for that they sought the Muslims and thus started the 'infidel' painting, interestingly, the Church actively translated Arab work and kept a trading and scholarly channel open.

Similarly, Colonisation took place due to the material competition within the Europeans and the relative weakness in terms military technology, once the conquest was over did the Imperialist thought emerge which erupts from European evolution of political thought. However, non-Europeans, have always went to the same route: conquest of weaker empires. There is no era or people on Earth that did not try to seek the economic and social subjugation of other nations. So, yes, Europe is guilty but so are the rest of the Empires, including Asian ones.

Thirdly, morality has changed during time. Read Socratic, Kantian and Nietzschian philosophy if you are ignorant, it is by far one of your most foolish arguments. If you mean you judge Europeans by your standards then, sir, you have the right to do so as an individual and thus it is your opinion only. It cannot be taken as the dogma that you are trying to make it; there is a difference between a preposition and claim.

Fourthly, these men died in the line of duty for what they believed in; they were subjects of British India and were defending their nation against an aggressor. AT THEIR TIME, it does not befit us to PERSONALLY question their sacrifice. Losing one's life is not an ordinary matter, even if we disagree with them and their service, we have no right to question them as people, as soldiers. This is something that perhaps only those who've been soldiers or have been close to soldiers can understand. Perhaps you never will.

Fiftly, you are sitting in the USA and telling me that you are against masters and slaves? I am a Pakistani and I LIVE in Pakistan, my own nation. You and no one else has any right to question my loyalty and my philosophical positioning or of anyone who lives here and loves this place. I did not reveal it here and even if I did you are no one to reflect on me. So mind it, kid.

Lastly, learn some manners before you address someone else, learn to structure your arguments with the respect the other deserves. There are many people on this forum that are older than you, more loyal to their nation than you, of other nations that are antagonists of your nation and of other faiths. Respect to be respected or buzz off.

Hope you learn something.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Weird to see some pakistanis hating the british imperialists but worshipping muslim imperialist invaders who were not only political but cultural imperialists too.

They are obviously occupied to this day, hence the obvious limitation on critical thinking.

 

[bravo45]

Weird to see some pakistanis hating the british imperialists but worshipping muslim imperialist invaders who were not only political but cultural imperialists too.

They are obviously occupied to this day, hence the obvious limitation on critical thinking.

Who the hell is "they"?????????

Talk ONLY about your own self....

Did you read the topic??

You are the slave that talk about anything other than the topic... The topic is DAMNED BRITISH.... your masters. And you would change anything to stay off that topic.

The point to be noted is NOT that I am not talking about the Muslim imperialists, I am also not talking about potatoes, coz that is not what this thread is about.

The point to be noted is that you, the slave is willing to not even comment on your masters, but deflect the topic to keep them protected.

 

[bravo45]

I will go out of line here, sir, and say that frankly you are either quite young or you are immature or you are quite narrow-minded or possibly you are not good at comprehending what's being said and deciphering what you think is being said and what is actually being said.

Firstly, you have the entire colonial period wrong. Colonisation came first and then came the Western civilisaition's claim of civilising us; what you referred to actually started from a famous/infamous poem called 'The White Man's Burden' by Rudard Kipling which was published in 1899. I am sure you are aware that colonisation came before that. In actuality most non-Europeans for Europeans were 'Barbarian infidels' and the same was the perception of the East, especially the Middle Eastern Muslim kingdoms, and this perception came out during the Crusades, long before colonisation. Read up on your history.

Secondly, the practice of making morals out of history does not preceed but proceeds history; it is one of the perhaps greatest accomplishments of Marx and his concept of Mateiral Dialects which shows how latent perceptions form after the material event. e.g. Easterners were not savages for the Greeks in the ancient era, in fact, Persian political philosophy was taught to Alexander and he verbally appreciated the Persian civilisation. The Romans actively fought wars with the Persians and saw them as potential competitors for they were sociologically oriented towards integration (letting local cultures remain intact) rather than the Roman subjugation (heavy intrusion of Roman culture). The 'material' events that lead to the Middle Ages led the Church to channel the infighting Christian kingdoms towards a common enemy and for that they sought the Muslims and thus started the 'infidel' painting, interestingly, the Church actively translated Arab work and kept a trading and scholarly channel open.

Similarly, Colonisation took place due to the material competition within the Europeans and the relative weakness in terms military technology, once the conquest was over did the Imperialist thought emerge which erupts from European evolution of political thought. However, non-Europeans, have always went to the same route: conquest of weaker empires. There is no era or people on Earth that did not try to seek the economic and social subjugation of other nations. So, yes, Europe is guilty but so are the rest of the Empires, including Asian ones.

Thirdly, morality has changed during time. Read Socratic, Kantian and Nietzschian philosophy if you are ignorant, it is by far one of your most foolish arguments. If you mean you judge Europeans by your standards then, sir, you have the right to do so as an individual and thus it is your opinion only. It cannot be taken as the dogma that you are trying to make it; there is a difference between a preposition and claim.

Fourthly, these men died in the line of duty for what they believed in; they were subjects of British India and were defending their nation against an aggressor. AT THEIR TIME, it does not befit us to PERSONALLY question their sacrifice. Losing one's life is not an ordinary matter, even if we disagree with them and their service, we have no right to question them as people, as soldiers. This is something that perhaps only those who've been soldiers or have been close to soldiers can understand. Perhaps you never will.

Fiftly, you are sitting in the USA and telling me that you are against masters and slaves? I am a Pakistani and I LIVE in Pakistan, my own nation. You and no one else has any right to question my loyalty and my philosophical positioning or of anyone who lives here and loves this place. I did not reveal it here and even if I did you are no one to reflect on me. So mind it, kid.

Lastly, learn some manners before you address someone else, learn to structure your arguments with the respect the other deserves. There are many people on this forum that are older than you, more loyal to their nation than you, of other nations that are antagonists of your nation and of other faiths. Respect to be respected or buzz off.

Hope you learn something.

Why does age matter?? To me arguments do... And BTW, I think I am pretty sure I am older than most of the "slaves" here.

Look at your own argument, White man's burden... Do you know when it was written?? Do you know when were places like the US, Australia etc were colonised?? What was their argument then???

Its not very intelligent to think that the argument was BORN out of no where from only one book. I am sorry I am not going to reply in full, because its not worth it, I am already seen your argument. And if you choose to be a slave then go right ahead. No doubt Pakistan is in the condition its in.

I have already replied even though I told myself I won't. But your arguments are sooo atrocious, it makes me question humanity. So at least I will leave some grain of sanity for anyone else to read and get encouragement from. Because I am sure there are others who feel this way but are scared to say it because of the overwhelming majority's conscious decision to remain slaves. Like those in this video, proud to get killed for their slave masters.

I was born free and will always be. You can be what you want.