VIEW: Jihadism and the military in Pakistan

[Irfan Baloch]

@GoW
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding among us but your post actually supports what I said earlier.
What I am saying is that when a Muslim picks up the sword he does it to slay not to be slayed

Both Ali ibn Abitalib & Khalid Bin Waleed are two shining examples of Arabian Knighthood and their excellence with sword and military command.

I am not dismissing the religious element in the motivation and doctrine while training a soldier but what I am questioning is the desire to die and actually glorifying it. It seems that the will to win and defeat the enemy is being deferred for the desire to die and that’s how the opponents of Muslims have seen them right from the early days to this time.

The call of crusades and the role of the Roman church to fan the religious fanaticism is well documented and it resulted in the slaughter of tens of thousands of Muslims and Jews of Arabian peninsula. The Mongols, Huns, Goths, Vikings, Gauls and Thracians on the other hand hardly needed any religion for their appetite for war and their ferocity towards their opponents. But one thing was common among them, the reason to pick up their weapon was to defeat the enemy.

If our army can work out a doctrine that emphasises on winning the war and defending the country and doing so by killing the adversary then the job is done, whether its with or without the religious element is of secondary importance as far as the military objective is concerned.
If the army can take Ali & Khalid as examples then it serves 2 purposes in my opinion, 1st it fulfils our religious side and the 2nd it ensures that our soldier will fight like these two famous personalities and they didn’t die when they picked up the arm against their enemies.

 

[Jango]

@GoW
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding among us but your post actually supports what I said earlier.
What I am saying is that when a Muslim picks up the sword he does it to slay not to be slayed

Both Ali ibn Abitalib & Khalid Bin Waleed are two shining examples of Arabian Knighthood and their excellence with sword and military command.

I am not dismissing the religious element in the motivation and doctrine while training a soldier but what I am questioning is the desire to die and actually glorifying it. It seems that the will to win and defeat the enemy is being deferred for the desire to die and that’s how the opponents of Muslims have seen them right from the early days to this time.

The call of crusades and the role of the Roman church to fan the religious fanaticism is well documented and it resulted in the slaughter of tens of thousands of Muslims and Jews of Arabian peninsula. The Mongols, Huns, Goths, Vikings, Gauls and Thracians on the other hand hardly needed any religion for their appetite for war and their ferocity towards their opponents. But one thing was common among them, the reason to pick up their weapon was to defeat the enemy.

If our army can work out a doctrine that emphasises on winning the war and defending the country and doing so by killing the adversary then the job is done, whether its with or without the religious element is of secondary importance as far as the military objective is concerned.
If the army can take Ali & Khalid as examples then it serves 2 purposes in my opinion, 1st it fulfils our religious side and the 2nd it ensures that our soldier will fight like these two famous personalities and they didn’t die when they picked up the arm against their enemies.

The point you are emphasizing is a valid one. That is the whole point of glorifying the concept of dying for your country. This is drilled into soldier not in order to get him to make foolish mistakes in the front line and get himself killed, but in order get the fear of death out of himself. He should fight valiantly with all his strength. But not get scared that he will die. He will need to fight off his phobia about death, and the whole motive behind the concept of martyrdom in present times is exactly it, to get the fear of dying out of the soldier.

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:04 PM ----------

@GoW
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding among us but your post actually supports what I said earlier.
What I am saying is that when a Muslim picks up the sword he does it to slay not to be slayed

Both Ali ibn Abitalib & Khalid Bin Waleed are two shining examples of Arabian Knighthood and their excellence with sword and military command.

I am not dismissing the religious element in the motivation and doctrine while training a soldier but what I am questioning is the desire to die and actually glorifying it. It seems that the will to win and defeat the enemy is being deferred for the desire to die and that’s how the opponents of Muslims have seen them right from the early days to this time.

The call of crusades and the role of the Roman church to fan the religious fanaticism is well documented and it resulted in the slaughter of tens of thousands of Muslims and Jews of Arabian peninsula. The Mongols, Huns, Goths, Vikings, Gauls and Thracians on the other hand hardly needed any religion for their appetite for war and their ferocity towards their opponents. But one thing was common among them, the reason to pick up their weapon was to defeat the enemy.

If our army can work out a doctrine that emphasises on winning the war and defending the country and doing so by killing the adversary then the job is done, whether its with or without the religious element is of secondary importance as far as the military objective is concerned.
If the army can take Ali & Khalid as examples then it serves 2 purposes in my opinion, 1st it fulfils our religious side and the 2nd it ensures that our soldier will fight like these two famous personalities and they didn’t die when they picked up the arm against their enemies.

The point you are emphasizing is a valid one. That is the whole point of glorifying the concept of dying for your country. This is drilled into soldier not in order to get him to make foolish mistakes in the front line and get himself killed, but in order get the fear of death out of himself. He should fight valiantly with all his strength. But not get scared that he will die. He will need to fight off his phobia about death, and the whole motive behind the concept of martyrdom in present times is exactly it, to get the fear of dying out of the soldier.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The point you are emphasizing is a valid one. That is the whole point of glorifying the concept of dying for your country. This is drilled into soldier not in order to get him to make foolish mistakes in the front line and get himself killed, but in order get the fear of death out of himself. He should fight valiantly with all his strength. But not get scared that he will die. He will need to fight off his phobia about death, and the whole motive behind the concept of martyrdom in present times is exactly it, to get the fear of dying out of the soldier.

[

well said
going beyond the call of duty and not cowaring in the face of danger actually does translate into not fearing the death ofcourse
but death shouldnt be the goal itself but the glorious victory should be

 

[Jango]

well said
going beyond the call of duty and not cowaring in the face of danger actually does translate into not fearing the death ofcourse
but death shouldnt be the goal itself but the glorious victory should be

...and indeed it is.