You have a reading comprehension problem. I pointed out that when I initially challenged you Chinese boys, it was on technical issues and that I took more than reasonable efforts to support my arguments as well as being polite and on subject. You Chinese boys took exceptions to that and began to spew your petty racist hatred at me. No 'innocent Chinese boys' here, pal. Pathetic attempt to cast yourselves as victims. But this is a forum that focuses on the military and military related technology and you Chinese boys are out of your league compared to me. I see some Chinese in Canada who never served in uniform, fast food chain restaurant uniforms does not count, and some mainland Chinese who are conscript rejects and neither group done any work related to the technical subjects under discussions but have no problems making outrageous claims about things of their ignorance. I was polite before but after the racist hatred directed at me for no cause, I see no reasons to be nice to you Chinese boys' ignorance.
Well, if you have issues with whoever you claim to have upsetted you, you can report them or private message them about it. No use pretending to be a victim and flame the entire Chinese population. I personally do not care what credentials you have, it means little to me if you do not speak common sense or has the ability to think logically before you speak. By being boastful of your knowledge and racist against Chinese you have put yourself right where you claim us Chinese are to be. With you continued insults and bigotry you are only begging for more insults. You have only yourself to blame, not us Chinese.
Forbid? How? Looks like someone need to take history lessons, particularly the map showing how many communist states there were during the Cold War. And why should we not have fear and animosity towards communism? Look at the sorry conditions of those Cold War era communist states. There were no West Berliners trying to 'escape' to East Berlin, were there? Or is there an alternate history you studied where the world was one big happy "Workers' Paradise"? And are you saying that the communists NEVER created propaganda with the goal of instilling fear and animosity against 'Western imperialists' and their 'running dogs'? How charmingly innocent...
We don't care how communism is in other countries because it is just an ideology which can be changed. It is not something that is carved into stone. US democracy and democracy elsewhere are also differen't and a lot depends on where their governments want to take it. You are too naive and is still living in the cold war era, wake up to the smell of coffee already.
No...China was in Viet Nam NOT to 'liberate' anyone but to start a war to spread communism. It is always amusing to watch you Chinese boys tap-dance around the issue. The Americans have no problems calling US involvement for what it is: communist containment. But now, given how communism is discredited, the defenders of China's meddling in Viet Nam can do no better than the equally discredited 'liberation' arguments. Too cowardly to call it for what it was: To spread communism? Too chickenshtt to call it as: To propagate a failed ideology? Yup -- On both counts.
I like the way you view the world. It's ever so entertaining. By your logics, we would have aided the former soviet union and prevent them from collapsing and spread communism into Pakistan too?
You can have your say about China meddling in Vietnam and the rest of the world can have their say about Americans meddling in Vietnam. Fact is no body gives a toss about it anymore. US failed their objectives and China successfully fought of the imperialist French and Americans and
liberated Vietnam. The rest was down to the Vietnamese government, China has no involvemnets in the way they wish to drive their country.
Bunk. I do not condemn Diem for being anti-communist. Diem was not the only anti-communist nationalist among other anti-communist nationalists, so do you condemn them as well? I may be critical or even condemning of Diem for being the type of leader he was but not for being anti-communist, just as you see nothing wrong with Mao for being the butcher that he was as long as he led China to independence. Brave and come out and say that being anti-communist is wrong?
As said before. We Chinese do not care about communism in other countries, we have better things to do with our time. We only care about how communism is in China. China wouldn't be the second largest economy if the ideology is a bad one. Clearly it is something that is working for us. I am sorry for the ailing economies in the once God almighty democratic countries though.
And you have the gall to debate politics and war? The 1968 Tet Offensive, or more specifically its failure to take South Vietnam, totally demolish the communist lie that Viet Nam was behind the Viet Minh and if China and the Soviet Union did not meddle in Viet Nam, North Viet Nam would not exist. But it is telling that you persists in calling out US meddling in SE Asia but not China's own actions as equally 'meddling'. Coward.
Why not? when you have the gall to, so can the others. Thank God for the freedom of speech?
Nope if America and France did not meddle in Vietnam then no war would have happened. China and Russia was there to fight off imperialism and to free Vietnam. It is saddening to see Vietnam suffer after the war. Americans destroyed their country, My Lai villages, raped childrens and did not offer them financial support to rebuild their country.
It is telling that you persists in calling out China meddling in SE Asia but not America's own actions as equally 'meddling'. Coward.
Right-O...Congratulations...!!! You effectively made the ridiculous argument that since South Viet Nam collapsed the people must not have loved their side of the country very much. How about if I say this: Since China was carved up and parts became colonial prizes by and for the Europeans and later Japan, a much smaller nation-state, militarily defeated the Chinese and carved out a chunk of Chinese land called 'Manchukuo', the Chinese people must not have loved their country very much. If, and it is a big 'if', there is a 'high Chinese IQ' people, you must not be in that group with this silly argument. The Chinese truly with the 'high IQ' wisely stayed out of something they know they are ignorant about.
Vietnam isn't calved up but is instead reunited and handed it back to them. Blame America for rolling with the wrong side. They had the opportunity to assist Ho and they had a good chance of spreading democracy there. They played the wrong cards and screwed up badly. Don't care about IQ, don't care about you whining. What matters is Vietnam is now still Vietnam, not calved up and renamed into Vietminko or the United states of Diemnam. I am sure Americans with IQ as high as yourself can work that one out.
Yeah...The Ho-Sainteny Agreement is new to YOU, pal. Professional historians regularly research and discovered new facts that formulate new truths about events in varying degrees of significance and impacts. Still, some facts are less well publicized and therefore less well known than others. The Ho-Sainteny Agreement is one of those less publicized and less known facts about the Vietnam War. It is a fact in history that YOU did not know and based upon that ignorance you have a false understanding of the Vietnam War, or more specifically its causes. Those who seeks to justify communism in Viet Nam have good cause to distract attention away from this pact between the Viet Minh and France that led to the return of France as a colony reclaimant. They want to portray the Viet Minh as a victim of France and the US. And when this fact is presented to the public without their consent, they get angry.
Nope Ho-Sainteny isn't new to me, but it is to you, hence you are so happy about finding out about it and coming here to boast about it ever so excitedly.
Don't care about who is victim and who isn't. I guess only losers like to think victim of themselves. Typical sour grape mentality. We don't need to justify the ideology Vietnam takes, it makes no difference to China if they are or not. This is something you need to get your head round to.
Ho-Sainteny is just a distraction of the Phoenix Program.
So for the benefit of the reader who is willing to be objective about the Vietnam War, the fact that there was a pact between the Viet Minh and France so soon after the end of WW II, so soon as in months, that actually invited France back into Indochina as a colony reclaimant, and that the pact placed Viet Nam back into colonial possession status, is a moral indictment against the communists for doing their part in causing the Vietnam War. Yes, the US may have failed in Viet Nam, but that failure is irrelevant regarding the chains of events that led up to the war. The intellectually honest position when presented with new facts, new as in when a person did not know them before, not 'new' as in newly discovered by research, is to admit that those new facts compelled a reassessment of one's position regarding the historical event. The Ho-Sainteny Agreement is not new to me but it is indeed new to YOU but you are too much of a coward to admit that it did forced you to consider the possibility that what you previously believed about the Vietnam War as wrong or even incomplete.
Ho-Sainteny Agreement is a strawman distraction to the Phoenix program which is a thing new to you.
Many Viets who lived through the war did not know about this pact, and practically none are the Viets who came after unification and believed the communists to be pure as freshly fallen snow. The communists and their deceitful Western apologists worked hard to suppress this fact. But to no avail. So in your cowardice, it is YOU are revising history as in revising it back to the comfort point for you despite the truth presented. But it is too much to ask any Chinese to be intellectually honest about China's meddling in Viet Nam to the detriment of the Vietnamese.
Yes the Viets who lived through the war knew nothing but Americans like you do? I suppose they all think America is as white as snow even after they pulvarized their country and My laied their villages. We do not need to revise any of the history by the way.
Americans know they were wrong and that they should never have participated in the war. Now to save face, they have to cowardly kill messenger Ho and blame everything on to him and France instead. Genius!
The Phoenix Program was a tactic of war, not one of its causes. The communists have their own version which was more atrocious in that they were indiscriminate in their targets and those murders preceded the American military involvement in Viet Nam. The reason you keep calling the US the co-starter of the Vietnam War is because you are trying (in vain) to distract attraction from the truth: That China was in Viet Nam long before the US was. Do you deny that fact? Be brave and state that denial.
Same as the Ho-Sainteny Agreement. It was a tactical decision made to liberate Vietnam after failing to secure help from America. The reason you keep calling China the co-starter of the Vietnam War is because you are trying (in vain) to distract attention from the truth: That America was the one who sided with the French who was in Vietnam long before the Chinese. Do you deny that fact? Be brave and state that denial.
You mean the sorry condition of every communist states, including Viet Nam? If communism was not forced upon the people, there would be no need for Viet Nam to 'grow again'. That is what the world see and understand. The PC you are using? Ain't from the communists. The Internet? Ain't from the communists. That microwave oven? Ain't from the communists. It is deliciously ironic to see that you, a Chinese Canadian who never lived through the bloody years of communism in China or through the Cold War for that matter, have been thoroughly brainwashed into believing that the ONLY way for a people to achieve independence is to have communism imposed, suffer decades of political oppression and economic hardships, then 'grow again'. A Chinese Canadian who never know political oppression and economic hardship, and who would curse Canada at even a hint of censorship or reduction in wages, is cheering for the Vietnamese to suffer the very bloody things communists are famous for.
Sorry to disappoint you, China suffered a lot less years of hardship to reach where we are today, even surpassing many in the democratic west. If that is what you hate communism for, then be my guest, we don't care nor respect losers who does nothing to stand up again but instead resort to the annoyance of barking.
Communism is like a pin in the haystack for you guys. You don't know how it works, despise it, yet it works well for some but you cannot find the answer how. It baffles you how China can become this strong through Communism. You become so obssessed, envious and with no choice that you have to find a coward way to destroy it. I guess it is easier to destroy something than to learn how it works right? That is American IQ and methodology for you.
They must be kicking themselves when war failed to contain the Chinese communist and embargo failed to stop their economic growth? See communist can be a good thing. What matter is having the right leadership and the will power of the people to move forward together. We can do it, surely Vietnam can too. If they can't then clearly that is a leadership problem.
It is precisely this kind of cheap personal attacks from the beginning that earned you Chinese boys my contempt.
Nope it is precisely your kind of cheap personal attacks that earned the individual American boy everyone's contempt.
Wrong...China was in Viet Nam long before the US and Diem. It was China who prodded North Vietnamese communists to start the war. After France, it was China who provided guidance and weapons to slaughter North Vietnamese anti-communist nationalists. It was China who imposed the disastrous land reform that resulted in famine in North Viet Nam. Those and many more occurred before US military involvement in Viet Nam. Be brave and state your denial of these historical facts.
Wrong France was in Vietnam long before China and Ho. Then American came and destroyed Vietnam instead of liberating and rebuilding it. All undisputed historical facts which is still taught in schools all over the world till this very day.
Desperate...desperate...!!! Yes...The Vietnamese really DO envy the Japanese for living better in many ways. I know because I hear them enough, in the US and in Viet Nam. It really is a desperate argument because you do not understand the 'whats' of that envy. It certainly is not the land but because despite the land's abundance of natural resources, communism prevented the Vietnamese from exploiting the bounty for their own benefits. Just like how communism denied the Chinese the same, remember the Chinese folly of adopting Lysenkoism from the Soviets? So for you to bring up threats of 'earthquakes, tsunami, volcanic erruptions and nuclear disasters' in the Japanese islands is truly a desperate and 'low IQ' argument.
Desperate...desperate...!!!Yes the Vietnamese really
DO love their free country. Only the traitors who left the people in Vietnam to die and join the ones who raped them and left them in decades of suffering and hardships would love Japan. So for you to have the audacity to justify America's actions in Vietnam and to live and die by the motto "There is Strong and there is ARMY STRONG!!!!" is truely a desperate and 'Low IQ' way of putting forward a convincing argument. It has gotten so bad that even the Vietnamese don't agree with what you are saying!
Me a 'bully'? That is a laugh. But if I am acting like a bully, like I said before that based upon you Chinese boys' unwarranted personal attacks against me, you Chinese boys earned it.
Yes you are a bully and because of your unwarranted personal and racist attacks on Chinese, you earned our contempt.
...ideology and way of life. No one is poor because no one is wealthy. At least no poverty nor wealth in theory anyway. The State runs everything in your life, from issuing you your clothes, like those classic 'Mao' shirt in China, to determining your job and eventually how you are supposed to think. Choices can be a burden. Freedom is slavery because you are chained by indecision all the time.
