Vietnam fooling no one in maritime dispute

[areal]

it is you who should stop lying
which vietnam state pm? south or north? let this 'Vietnam State' get out of its tomb, we will believe what you addressed.
in addition, china DID NOT attend the San Francisco conference. so it was a unilateral illegal conference for such a claim.
you cannot make a statement without the true host at the venue.

by San Francisco conference on September 8, 1951, Vietnam State PM Tran Van Huu stated Islands belong to Vietnam. China's claim was rejected by voting.

China stop lying and lying.

unfortunately, it is really a long distance from north viet to the nansha islands, why i exclude south viet, as it was not called viet until 18 century but Champa Kingdom that was finally cruelly conquered by viet in 1697.
let a Champa people to say something vividly so that we can believe in your lies.

It's true that ancient China is the only nation in East Asia with enough wealth, man power and ambitions to perform long distance sea travel. But travelling from Vietnam to Paracels and Spartly does not require the same level of ship technology. With a wooden boat and a crew of 10, Vietnamese fishermen can fish for month before return to the land. Why couldn't ancient Vietnamese go to Paracels and Spartly to fish? There were no Chinese coast guards and Marine Surveillance at that time, weren't there? And Paracels and Spartly are closer to Vietnam, so the chance of Vietnamese fishermen used to fish there is higher.


I don't think you should take an American for example. No offense to OCguy but the net joke about American stupidity all the time. Like the majority of American don't know the Earth is round, or the sun is a star, or commonly known capitals of Europe countries.

stop faking history, please,
so called hoang sa islands have been shown coastal islands of viet for many times, it is not the present xisha islands.

The westerners were the thirst parties, they known that Vietnamese found and controlled Islands from ancient time. They are impartial in this dispute.

From time of Nguyen warlord to Nguyen Dynasty, Vietnam has been controlled official by Dynasty. Hoang Sa sea fleet has been established to control Hoang Sa and Truong Sa of Vietnam.

When chinese didn't do that. In map of Man Qing atlas 1904, it stated that last point of China is Hainan Islands,

This map made by Vietnamese.

 

[areal]

well, let me be a volunteer teacher for once.
this document was written in classical Chinese, which was as the official language of viet for nearly two thousand years.
neither vietnamese language nor cho nom, i am afraid none of these characters your poor viet guys can recognize.
what a pity for a people who cannot recognize the writing of their ancestors.

for the document that you presented, it is something, but, this is a unilateral document that cannot be proved by any western documents, atlas or anything else. so, it is not surprised it is a little counterfeit masterpiece since the faking engineering on SCS islands started in 1974 in viet

Like I said ancient Vietnamese fishermen worked there. There are many Chinese all around ASEAN, due to the fact ancient Chinese fled to the south when northen barbarians invaded or Chinese dynasties changed (insert boat people joke here). Ancient Vietnamese on the other hands often fled to Cambodia, South Vietnam (Vietnam just expanded to South Vietnam in 17th century) or even to China. Few Vietnamese took the sea as an escape route because Vietnam didn't have the ship technology to travel long distances.

As of proof I have the order of Vietnamese Emperor Ming Mang in 19th century sending his navy unit to Paracels to set up landmarks there.
View attachment 35022
And here another documents of him sending troops to help a French merchant ship stuck at Paracels.
View attachment 35023
Not sure if you can read it. I heard ancient Vietnamese writing was based on Hanzi, but different.

 

[xesy]

well, let me be a volunteer teacher for once.
this document was written in classical Chinese, which was as the official language of viet for nearly two thousand years.
neither vietnamese language nor cho nom, i am afraid none of these characters your poor viet guys can recognize.
what a pity for a people who cannot recognize the writing of their ancestors.

for the document that you presented, it is something, but, this is a unilateral document that cannot be proved by any western documents, atlas or anything else. so, it is not surprised it is a little counterfeit masterpiece since the faking engineering on SCS islands started in 1974 in viet

Wanna talk about Vietnam dark age again? There were 1000 years of Chinalizing our ancestors by destroying their early culture and forcing Chinese culture to ancient Vietnamese. Of course when they regained their independence, they were already affected. Many traditions were lost or mixed with Chinese cultures. And Nom, that's what we called our ancient writing, was only used by Vietnamese elites because it's even harder to learn than Hanzi. Normal people could hardly see any difference between Nom and Hanzi. Even if characters looks the same, they pronounce differently and have different meanings. Uncle Ho and the govt decided that Nom was hard to learn and effectively use so Vietnam switch to another more friendly writing system, the mordern Vietnamese alphabet. There are still Vietnamese scholars study this ancient writing, though.

And the documents were from a king, which means ancient Vietnamese dynasty acknowledged the islands since the early 19th century. Being the most China dependent Vietnamese dynasty, Nguyen dynasty would have given up the islands if Qin dynasty had sent a note or an order. And what faking engineering you are talking about?

 

[Rechoice]

stop faking history, please,
so called hoang sa islands have been shown coastal islands of viet for many times, it is not the present xisha islands.

Don't lie.

Look at again, our map here.

 

[ice bomb]

What would happen to a blogger in China, were they to post information about Chinese government programs, and then criticize the government for implementing them, as is constantly done in the US?

Well, they have done that for ages.

About – chinaSMACK

 

[Jlaw]

Well, they have done that for ages.

About – chinaSMACK

"Over the years, chinaSMACK has grown into one of the most popular, trafficked, and regularly cited English-language group blogs..."

 

[kankan326]

As of proof I have the order of Vietnamese Emperor Ming Mang in 19th century sending his navy unit to Paracels to set up landmarks there.
View attachment 35022
And here another documents of him sending troops to help a French merchant ship stuck at Paracels.
View attachment 35023
Not sure if you can read it. I heard ancient Vietnamese writing was based on Hanzi, but different.

LoL，I don't know if these documents are fake or not. Even if it's true, you must know that those islands had already had owner for thousands years. You can't enter others' house, draw a symbol and claim the house is yours.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

In order to convince the American people, China needs to take out full-page ads in the New York Times to proclaim that DOKDO IS KOREAN XISHA IS CHINESE.

 

[EastSea]

unfortunately, it is really a long distance from north viet to the nansha islands, why i exclude south viet, as it was not called viet until 18 century but Champa Kingdom that was finally cruelly conquered by viet in 1697.
let a Champa people to say something vividly so that we can believe in your lies.

Base on your analogy, South Tibet belong to India, China don't have right to claim it.

Champa King family joined to Viet and they became Vietnamese then they joined to control Hoangsa and Truongsa too. This documents stated that the Cham King family members have been joined to Viet-army and went to Hoangsa, Truongsa.

It stated that they (Champa King family ) performed with the Nguyen Emperor of Vietnam on that the appointment of three boats to Changsha (Kulao Cuah Atah) and Hoang Sa (Kulao Cuah Bhong); support to establish the markers on Islands in following the request of Nguyen Kingdom Vietnam.

Thư tịch Hoàng gia Chăm khẳng định chủ quyền Hoàng Sa - Kienthuc.net.vn

 

[Mr Second Back]

Wanna talk about Vietnam dark age again? There were 1000 years of Chinalizing our ancestors by destroying their early culture and forcing Chinese culture to ancient Vietnamese. Of course when they regained their independence, they were already affected. Many traditions were lost or mixed with Chinese cultures. And Nom, that's what we called our ancient writing, was only used by Vietnamese elites because it's even harder to learn than Hanzi. Normal people could hardly see any difference between Nom and Hanzi. Even if characters looks the same, they pronounce differently and have different meanings. Uncle Ho and the govt decided that Nom was hard to learn and effectively use so Vietnam switch to another more friendly writing system, the mordern Vietnamese alphabet. There are still Vietnamese scholars study this ancient writing, though.

And the documents were from a king, which means ancient Vietnamese dynasty acknowledged the islands since the early 19th century. Being the most China dependent Vietnamese dynasty, Nguyen dynasty would have given up the islands if Qin dynasty had sent a note or an order. And what faking engineering you are talking about?

People always choose the moderner civilization. Campared with Chinese culture, tell me the advantage of SE Asia?

 

[xesy]

LoL，I don't know if these documents are fake or not. Even if it's true, you must know that those islands had already had owner for thousands years. You can't enter others' house, draw a symbol and claim the house is yours.

If you want to prove that those islands were in control of China for "thousands of years", you should present documents and maps of the same period and credibility. My documents are from a king, so I expect you to show me documents of Chinese emperor or high level officials.

People always choose the moderner civilization. Campared with Chinese culture, tell me the advantage of SE Asia?

Nah, I don't see any advantages at all. But we should have the freedom to choose, shouldn't we?

 

[areal]

from a sense of the history, viet nam is still a rebelling province of china.
china was the most powerful, the most civilized, the most advanced entity for the most time of past two thousand years.
being a province of china, enjoying full glory of the empire, either the former 1000 years, and the latter 1000 years, you said it is 'dark age', so, it was not dark after viet was colonized by france. being a poor, low-developed country, enjoying high CPI, now becomes a bright age? tell you the truth, without killed millions of people during the viet war, most western people don't know who the vietnam is.

in very very old times, the borderlines were ambiguous in land, needless to say the sea. but poor vietnamese should not be the people to sail so far, right?

there are three stages for viet history,
one, being a part of china
two, being a dependent country of china
three, being a colony of france

so, let's check the history as viet was really divided from china, when france grabbed the viet from china, there is a treaty in 1887 between china and fance to determine vietnam sea should not be more east far from longitude 108 degree east.

so, maybe the law to determine that SCS belongs to china is not perfect, but SCS absolutely has nothing with viet!

Wanna talk about Vietnam dark age again? There were 1000 years of Chinalizing our ancestors by destroying their early culture and forcing Chinese culture to ancient Vietnamese. Of course when they regained their independence, they were already affected. Many traditions were lost or mixed with Chinese cultures. And Nom, that's what we called our ancient writing, was only used by Vietnamese elites because it's even harder to learn than Hanzi. Normal people could hardly see any difference between Nom and Hanzi. Even if characters looks the same, they pronounce differently and have different meanings. Uncle Ho and the govt decided that Nom was hard to learn and effectively use so Vietnam switch to another more friendly writing system, the mordern Vietnamese alphabet. There are still Vietnamese scholars study this ancient writing, though.

And the documents were from a king, which means ancient Vietnamese dynasty acknowledged the islands since the early 19th century. Being the most China dependent Vietnamese dynasty, Nguyen dynasty would have given up the islands if Qin dynasty had sent a note or an order. And what faking engineering you are talking about?

thanks for the map, that's the way how viet gov. performs the brainwashing engineering on faking history.
dare you show any maps before 1974?
wow, destroyed, or classified in viet now, right ?

Don't lie.

Look at again, our map here.

show documents of champa king, not their vietnamized descendent, please
sorry, i forget, champa kindom also was a dependent country of china ...

Base on your analogy, South Tibet belong to India, China don't have right to claim it.

Champa King family joined to Viet and they became Vietnamese then they joined to control Hoangsa and Truongsa too. This documents stated that the Cham King family members have been joined to Viet-army and went to Hoangsa, Truongsa.

It stated that they (Champa King family ) performed with the Nguyen Emperor of Vietnam on that the appointment of three boats to Changsha (Kulao Cuah Atah) and Hoang Sa (Kulao Cuah Bhong); support to establish the markers on Islands in following the request of Nguyen Kingdom Vietnam.

Thư tịch Hoàng gia Chăm khẳng định chủ quyền Hoàng Sa - Kienthuc.net.vn

 

[areal]

peeling the Chinese elements of so-called viet civilization, nothing you can see but a naked monkey.
actually, from the view of linguistics, the vietnamese language is only difference from chinese language on the order of adjective modifier and its object, in vietnamese order, we should say 'viet southern', but in modern and advanced order like chinese or english, we say 'southern viet'. by the way, 60% vietnamese words were borrowed from ancient and modern chinese.
without sino-vietnamese, viet even cannot talk! even so, they called such a civilization feeding period 'the dark age'!

People always choose the moderner civilization. Campared with Chinese culture, tell me the advantage of SE Asia?

we have, but unfortunately, it is in classical chinese, i am afraid it is not able to recognized to most of you
so it is not necessary to show something you are unable to evaluate.

If you want to prove that those islands were in control of China for "thousands of years", you should present documents and maps of the same period and credibility. My documents are from a king, so I expect you to show me documents of Chinese emperor or high level officials.

Nah, I don't see any advantages at all. But we should have the freedom to choose, shouldn't we?

 

[kankan326]

If you want to prove that those islands were in control of China for "thousands of years", you should present documents and maps of the same period and credibility. My documents are from a king, so I expect you to show me documents of Chinese emperor or high level officials.

Chinese fishermen and businessmen have been working in SCS for thousands years. Suddenly, Vietnam, a vassal country of China, sent some shabby boars there and told its master country that: "The Chinese were illegally working there for thousands years!" What a joke! As the only civilized country in this region, China's government had no interest in making marks everywhere.

 

[xesy]

"The Chinese were illegally working there for thousands years!"

Never said or meant anything like that. International water and EEZ and stuffs were invented in the last 100 years, who care about where ancient Chinese worked? We say that China illegaly claims SCS, that's all. Don't tell me all Chinese believe in the 9 line dash map.

peeling the Chinese elements of so-called viet civilization, nothing you can see but a naked monkey.
actually, from the view of linguistics, the vietnamese language is only difference from chinese language on the order of adjective modifier and its object, in vietnamese order, we should say 'viet southern', but in modern and advanced order like chinese or english, we say 'southern viet'. by the way, 60% vietnamese words were borrowed from ancient and modern chinese.
without sino-vietnamese, viet even cannot talk! even so, they called such a civilization feeding period 'the dark age'!


we have, but unfortunately, it is in classical chinese, i am afraid it is not able to recognized to most of you
so it is not necessary to show something you are unable to evaluate.

Prove that to the American Idian, or the Atzec. Did they asked to be civilized by Western nations? When civilizations clash, only one comes out, too bad Vietnam early culture did not survive. That's history, I have no complaint. But don't you act like ancient Chinese were the savior of Vietnam and feel superior about that.

from a sense of the history, viet nam is still a rebelling province of china.
china was the most powerful, the most civilized, the most advanced entity for the most time of past two thousand years.
being a province of china, enjoying full glory of the empire, either the former 1000 years, and the latter 1000 years, you said it is 'dark age', so, it was not dark after viet was colonized by france. being a poor, low-developed country, enjoying high CPI, now becomes a bright age? tell you the truth, without killed millions of people during the viet war, most western people don't know who the vietnam is.

in very very old times, the borderlines were ambiguous in land, needless to say the sea. but poor vietnamese should not be the people to sail so far, right?

there are three stages for viet history,
one, being a part of china
two, being a dependent country of china
three, being a colony of france

so, let's check the history as viet was really divided from china, when france grabbed the viet from china, there is a treaty in 1887 between china and fance to determine vietnam sea should not be more east far from longitude 108 degree east.

so, maybe the law to determine that SCS belongs to china is not perfect, but SCS absolutely has nothing with viet!





thanks for the map, that's the way how viet gov. performs the brainwashing engineering on faking history.
dare you show any maps before 1974?
wow, destroyed, or classified in viet now, right ?

Well, rebelling for more than 1000 years is enough for us to be an independent country now. And you took Vietnam too lightly. As one of the first colonies rebeled against the West, Vietnam sure was known before the war with US.

Well acroding to UNCLOS, the rig is on our EEZ.

And as for no maps before 1974, we have the pefect reason: destroyed during wars. The US bombed major North Vietnamese cities until 1972 so there you go: nice and sound reason.