Vietnam Defence Forum

[Viet]

yes, I also wish the return of dinosaurs to earth, and so peace will prevail. may the beacon lights up our way. yes, we all wish the future generation of Vietnam will benefit greatly from the peaceful rise.

ending topic

Junior Army School

 

[Viet]

Pictures of the launch of the 6th Kilo Attack Submarine (HQ 187) last September. the sub is currently on sea trails, and will be reportedly delivered soon.

Specs:

• 636 MV class (Kilo), fast-attack submarine (SSK), diesel-electric powered, max range 6,000 miles, crew of 57, top speed 20 knots, 434 miles under water with 2.7 knots at quiet speed
• surface displacement 2,350 tons, submerged 3,950 tons, 242 feet in length
• improved stealth features through removal of flooding ports and treating the hull with multilayer anechoic rubber tiles
• tiles fitted on casings and fins to absorb active sonar waves, shielding sounds from within the submarine thus reducing the range of detection of passive sonar
• 6 x 533 mm torpedo tubes, loaded with mines, torpedoes and kalibr cruise missiles against subs, ships, land targets
• Manpads Strela-3 anti-aircraft missiles
• tasks: anti-submarine, anti-shipping warfare, coastal defence, mine laying, general reconnaissance, patrol

 

[Aqsuperman]

IMI Negev with magazine. This SAW can use both magazine and ammo belt.

 

[Mokaman]

You cannot use a detached M203 alone, you either need an adapter or a complete kits

View attachment 303828

False, you can fire a M203 grenade launcher without being attached to a rifle or support. @Aqsuperman The M203 have no form of safety to prevent it being fired by itself alone. The problem firing M203 alone is the recoil, similar recoil to a 12 gauge, and you have no form of stock, grip, or hand hold to stabilize your fire...Just imagine fire a shotgun 12 gauge by only holding the cannon. ...So it's horrible and crazy !!!! But with some imaginations, you could build something around M203 like tied it around a long piece of wood your stick on the ground to fire like a mortar

 

[Mokaman]

interesting comment. So what you expect? A knight vs. knights fight like in the Middle Ages?
View attachment 303820

The new warships, fighters, or missiles delivery to Vietnam that shown in this thread are all useless, aren't they? All that you need is the bravery of the Vietnam soldiers. Because the bravery of VPA can help Vietnam to pave the road to Beijing.

If there is anyone that should take the responsibility for the death of the VN soldiers, it is not PLA. But the VPA leadership that send the soldiers to stand in water with few naval protection.

Some pictures taken during the Gulf War. According to you, the pilots of the US fighters or bombers should feel shameful, because they kill thousands of Iraq soldiers that "unarmed (to air) standing in desert"
View attachment 303822

View attachment 303823

In combat, there are things you are proud of and things you want to forget or at least discreet about it. So to brag about killing soldiers standing in water like idle statues is not something to be proud of. Or thinking you are great in a battle because your frigates destroyed transport and landing crafts . Or being proud of your coast guard boats in large number chasing few of your opponents... That's why when your compatriots posted those kind of things in this forum it make me laugh

That Highway of death was an Iraqi military convoy with military and civilian vehicules retreating back to Iraq. The bombardment (massacre) stop on President Bush’s order. It was a legit target but I don’t think those American pilots brag much about it. War is hell.

Every soldiers are brave when they know they outnumber their enemy or have highest chance to win a combat, who doesn’t? But what happen if your situation is reverse and you are a few and your chance of death is certain? Will you be as effective in combat and fight till the end? It doesn't take much to bring panic among the troop …. Did PLA face any of those situations yet? Or they just rely on modern equipments and huge numbers for victory?

And sure your lighthouses will bring peace in South China sea… Even Stevie Wonder can see what China is trying to do in South China sea. But thank to China and it bully policy of (( The bigger guy take all )), Viet Nam is investing heavily for a modern navy and air force, having new allies in India, Japan & USA and having the weapon embargo lift very soon… Thanks to China bully politic, Viet Nam navy was a small, weak and neglect force with old Soviet-era ships is today a Navy that grow everyday bigger and stronger, it will never beat PLA navy but it will surely give a good fight. So thanks China again and keep bullying it just make all the countries in the Spratly modernizing it forces and looking for allies... Great strategy

 

[jhungary]

False, you can fire a M203 grenade launcher without being attached to a rifle or support. @Aqsuperman The M203 have no form of safety to prevent it being fired by itself alone. The problem firing M203 alone is the recoil, similar recoil to a 12 gauge, and you have no form of stock, grip, or hand hold to stabilize your fire...Just imagine fire a shotgun 12 gauge by only holding the cannon. ...So it's horrible and crazy !!!! But with some imaginations, you could build something around M203 like tied it around a long piece of wood your stick on the ground to fire like a mortar

Can you fire a shotgun without buttstock or grip? Technical, Yes - "GIVEN YOU CAN ACHIEVE THAT GRIP FORCE without the actual butt and grip", but it will be all over the place and funny enough, the only way you can fire a shotgun without the butts and grip would be pointing it directly upward which would give you the maximum grip of the barrel and the slide.

Fire a shot gun that way is "UNSAFE" and that would be the biggest safety there were that actually concern you, you don't fire a weapon unless you know it is safe to fire, now imagine you are doing this to a M203 launcher, would it be safe to fire a M203 Launcher that way? I mean if I fire a round, I want to know where it lands, if you do it with a M203, it will simply goes everywhere, depending on the recoil or where you finger and palm is gripping the weapon.

Have you actually used a M203 before? Strange that you will say this

your stick on the ground to fire like a mortar

Can you tell me what is the last point on handling a M203 in a firing positions in the M203 qualification course??

 

[Viet]

First Look: Vietnam Cam Ranh Bay Imagery Update
May 8, 2016

By Chris Biggers

The latest imagery update available in Google Earth shows some new developments at Vietnam’s deep-water port of Cam Ranh Bay. For starters, we get a clear view of the new international port facility that was inaugurated back in March. Space snapshots acquired by DigitalGlobe show extensive berthing areas including a 640 meter finger pier and a 500 meter quay wall. Several new administrative and support buildings were also visible since the previous update.

Hanoi has been telegraphing the construction of this facility for some time in anticipation to draw foreign civilian and military ships. Upon opening, the Vietnamese press put emphasis on aircraft carriers up to 110,000 DWT (deadweight tonnage) and cruise ships weighing up to 100,000 GRT (gross tonnage). The mention of the former, of course, hints at how far U.S.-Vietnam relations have come.

And certainly some sizable vessels have made their way to the Southeast Asian port. The first vessel from the Republic of Singapore, the lead Endurance Class (207) LST, set sail from Changi naval base and arrived on 17 March for a five day port call. Satellite imagery even captured the 141 meter long vessel berthed at the new finger pier (above).

Subsequently, two Japanese guided-missile destroyers made their way to the port the following month in a move meant to boost defense ties and reify Japan’s support for regional security. Unsurprisingly, the Japanese Defence Minister Gen Nakatani told the press at the time that Japan would work with the United States to ensure regional peace and stability in the South China Sea.

Beyond regional vessels, the first reported western boat also arrived earlier this month. On 02 May, the French Mistral-class (LHD)amphibious assault ship arrived for a four day port call. The latest vessel and by far the largest, the French ship was loaded with naval cadets which signaled “the desire to increase cooperation between the armed forces and governments,” according to a press release from the French embassy in Hanoi.

Additional space snapshots showed Phase II still under construction at the time of capture. The imagery confirms press reporting that the international port facility will feature ship maintenance and repair services.

Located to the north of Phase I, imagery acquired in March shows the ship repair facility with four covered halls, a transverse table, and a synchrolift (or ship elevator), all in various states of build. New administrative and support buildings were also visible. In addition, a 890 sq meter cleared section of land was noted behind the covered halls. This could support the staging of ship plates and modules for new vessel construction. In that case, the maintenance facility would also double as a fabrication shop.

We await future imagery for more insight.

 

[Viet]

Vietnam, Singapore to cooperate for submarine rescue


By Trung Tan
PADANG- Friday, April 15, 2016

Rear Admiral Pham Hoai Nam, commander of the Vietnam People's Navy, and Rear Admiral Lai Chung Han of the Singapore Navy have signed an agreement for their navies to cooperate for submarine rescue.

The agreement was signed Wednesday on the sidelines of the 15th Western Pacific Naval Symposium in Padang, Indonesia.

The two officials also discussed closer cooperation in many other areas. Vietnam plans to sign similar agreements with other countries in the region, according to a Thanh Nien source.

 

[Viet]

Sharp shooter on position

 

[Viet]

Things slowly become hot. Members of US government travel to Vietnam ahead of Barack Obama visit. the schedule when the US Airforce One hits the ground appears to be top secret as the day is not released yet.

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs Daniel Russel

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor Tom Malinowski

 

[Viet]

there are reports surfacinng the next generation of Gun ship TT400-TP class produced by the domestic shipyard Hong Ha will receive a major facelift. the overhaul will be finalized later this year. With the help from Russian companies.

Currently the gunship has an ugly design, posseses no antiship missile nor creditable aerial defence. that is expected going to change.

Displacement: 455 tons (full load)
Length: 54.16 metres
Speed: max 32 knots
Range: 2,500 miles
Endurance: 30 days
Crew: 28
Sensors and processing systems: Radar:MR-123/176 Vympel/Bass Tilt, Bass Tilt AK-630 fire-control

Armament:

• 1 x 76.2mm AK-176 main gun
• 1 x 30mm AK-630 CIWS
• 16 x 9K38 Igla anti aircraft missile
  
• 2 x KPVT 14.5mm heavy machine gun

 

[GS Zhou]

In combat, there are things you are proud of and things you want to forget or at least discreet about it. So to brag about killing soldiers standing in water like idle statues is not something to be proud of. Or thinking you are great in a battle because your frigates destroyed transport and landing crafts . Or being proud of your coast guard boats in large number chasing few of your opponents... That's why when your compatriots posted those kind of things in this forum it make me laugh

That Highway of death was an Iraqi military convoy with military and civilian vehicules retreating back to Iraq. The bombardment (massacre) stop on President Bush’s order. It was a legit target but I don’t think those American pilots brag much about it. War is hell.

Every soldiers are brave when they know they outnumber their enemy or have highest chance to win a combat, who doesn’t? But what happen if your situation is reverse and you are a few and your chance of death is certain? Will you be as effective in combat and fight till the end? It doesn't take much to bring panic among the troop …. Did PLA face any of those situations yet? Or they just rely on modern equipments and huge numbers for victory?

And sure your lighthouses will bring peace in South China sea… Even Stevie Wonder can see what China is trying to do in South China sea. But thank to China and it bully policy of (( The bigger guy take all )), Viet Nam is investing heavily for a modern navy and air force, having new allies in India, Japan & USA and having the weapon embargo lift very soon… Thanks to China bully politic, Viet Nam navy was a small, weak and neglect force with old Soviet-era ships is today a Navy that grow everyday bigger and stronger, it will never beat PLA navy but it will surely give a good fight. So thanks China again and keep bullying it just make all the countries in the Spratly modernizing it forces and looking for allies... Great strategy

For the 1988 sea fight,
1) there were also unarmed Chinese soldiers standing in the water!
2) the Chinese ships used guns or artillery only in the fight. The VN ships had guns or artillery as well !
3) The Chinese ships were almost naked to air. But Vietnam at that time had SU22 already! (Vietnam had its first SU-22 in 1979). If the SU22 took off and reached the fight area, it could be almost a disaster to PLA Navy. Thanks to god, SU22 not taking off, otherwise the history might be completely changed!!!

If there is anyone should be blamed for the death of the VN soldiers, that should be the VPA leadership. They sent the soldiers that "don't want to fight"; they offered few naval protection to the soldiers; they didn't use SU-22, which could bring a nightmare to the PLA Navy. So, instead of posting nonsense here, you'd better write a letter to the son or daughter of the VPA leadership then to ask them whey their father be so stxxid in commanding the 1988 sea fight with China. Maybe you can start your letter with the following words from "The Art of War" By Sun Tzu

"Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose"

 

[GS Zhou]

But thank to China and it bully policy of (( The bigger guy take all )), Viet Nam is investing heavily for a modern navy and air force, having new allies in India, Japan & USA and having the weapon embargo lift very soon… Thanks to China bully politic, Viet Nam navy was a small, weak and neglect force with old Soviet-era ships is today a Navy that grow everyday bigger and stronger, it will never beat PLA navy but it will surely give a good fight. So thanks China again and keep bullying it just make all the countries in the Spratly modernizing it forces and looking for allies... Great strategy

The bully policy of China? What a joke! China already shows a surprising "self-control" in military spending. According to SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute), China spends only 1.9% of the GDP on military, while the spending rate of Vietnam is 2.3%, Russia 5.4%, USA 3.3%.
(FYI: For the China figure, SIPRI mentioned: The figures are for estimated total military expenditure, including estimates for items not included in the official defence budget. )

Don't try to blame China for the arm race across ASEAN. Just take an example, Thailand is investing heavily on its navy and air force, but who is a bigger concern to Thailand? Vietnam or China?

Vietnam's 2014 GDP was 186.2 billion USD, or 1,160 billion CNY. Shenzhen, a city from Guangdong Province of China, its 2014 GDP was 1,600 billion CNY. See? The GDP of the whole Vietnam is even significantly smaller than one single city of China! Why should we worry about the arm race with Vietnam?

Arm race has its own cost! The more you spending on military, the less you spend on education, infrastructure, health, scientific research, industrialization, etc, which in the long run, will harm the economic development of your country. That said, to invite Vietnam to run an arm race with us is exactly what we want!

For China, we have a strong manufacturing base, therefore the money we spend on new military equipment, the money we spend on J10, J11, J15, J16, J20, 052C, 052D, submarines, Dongfeng-family missiles, different kinds of satellites, etc, will eventually be kept within our own economy circulation. The money we spend on these equipment
- will turn to be the wages of our scientists, engineers and workers, so better talents could be attracted;
- will turn to be the funds for the defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
- will turn to be the profits of the defense industry so they could invest more on new weapons R&D
- will turn to be the taxes paid to government so the money becomes the government budget again

But for Vietnam, the money you spend on new military equipment unfortunately turns to be
- wages of Russian scientists, engineers and workers
- funds for the Russian defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
- profits of the Russian defense industry
- taxes paid to Russian government

You must be thrilled to see this! Right?

 

[BoQ77]

@GS Zhou : could you create another thread to talk about this clash?
This thread is almost for news

First Look: Vietnam Cam Ranh Bay Imagery Update
May 8, 2016

By Chris Biggers

The latest imagery update available in Google Earth shows some new developments at Vietnam’s deep-water port of Cam Ranh Bay. For starters, we get a clear view of the new international port facility that was inaugurated back in March. Space snapshots acquired by DigitalGlobe show extensive berthing areas including a 640 meter finger pier and a 500 meter quay wall. Several new administrative and support buildings were also visible since the previous update.

Hanoi has been telegraphing the construction of this facility for some time in anticipation to draw foreign civilian and military ships. Upon opening, the Vietnamese press put emphasis on aircraft carriers up to 110,000 DWT (deadweight tonnage) and cruise ships weighing up to 100,000 GRT (gross tonnage). The mention of the former, of course, hints at how far U.S.-Vietnam relations have come.

And certainly some sizable vessels have made their way to the Southeast Asian port. The first vessel from the Republic of Singapore, the lead Endurance Class (207) LST, set sail from Changi naval base and arrived on 17 March for a five day port call. Satellite imagery even captured the 141 meter long vessel berthed at the new finger pier (above).

Subsequently, two Japanese guided-missile destroyers made their way to the port the following month in a move meant to boost defense ties and reify Japan’s support for regional security. Unsurprisingly, the Japanese Defence Minister Gen Nakatani told the press at the time that Japan would work with the United States to ensure regional peace and stability in the South China Sea.

Beyond regional vessels, the first reported western boat also arrived earlier this month. On 02 May, the French Mistral-class (LHD)amphibious assault ship arrived for a four day port call. The latest vessel and by far the largest, the French ship was loaded with naval cadets which signaled “the desire to increase cooperation between the armed forces and governments,” according to a press release from the French embassy in Hanoi.

Additional space snapshots showed Phase II still under construction at the time of capture. The imagery confirms press reporting that the international port facility will feature ship maintenance and repair services.

Located to the north of Phase I, imagery acquired in March shows the ship repair facility with four covered halls, a transverse table, and a synchrolift (or ship elevator), all in various states of build. New administrative and support buildings were also visible. In addition, a 890 sq meter cleared section of land was noted behind the covered halls. This could support the staging of ship plates and modules for new vessel construction. In that case, the maintenance facility would also double as a fabrication shop.

We await future imagery for more insight.

 

[GS Zhou]

@GS Zhou : could you create another thread to talk about this clash?
This thread is almost for news

thanks for the reminder. But I'm not the initiator of the discussion on the 1988 sea fight and arm race across ASEAN.

This is a news thread, so I'll stop the discussion on the two topics. But please send a similar message to other participants as well, e.g. @Mokaman