Vietnam Defence Forum

[tbquestion]

Today two Su-30MK2 were delivered to Vietnam. The numbers 88520 and 88521.
That's means, the Vietnamese air force operating 36 Su-30MK2 fighter jets already.

Vietnam got to mixed it up with European planes if they want to deter their big neighbor. Some nations own a mix of both just like Indonesia and Malaysia. This is probably India's strategy in their latest French fighters purchase.
How can you deter an enemy that knows all the pro and con of your weapon.

Today two Su-30MK2 were delivered to Vietnam. The numbers 88520 and 88521.
That's means, the Vietnamese air force operating 36 Su-30MK2 fighter jets already.

Here's an interesting article that said that the Su-35 is not that much better than the future Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA:
Singapore Airshow 2016: Analysis - PAK-FA's Asian export hopes stymied by lack of 'fifth-generation' qualities | IHS Jane's 360

It makes you wonder why a certain superpower buys 24 Su-35.

 

[Carlosa]

Here's an interesting article that said that the Su-35 is not that much better than the future Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA:
Singapore Airshow 2016: Analysis - PAK-FA's Asian export hopes stymied by lack of 'fifth-generation' qualities | IHS Jane's 360

It makes you wonder why a certain superpower buys 24 Su-35.

That's not quite the reality of the situation. First of all, the comments in the article come from Lockheed Martin which makes the rival of the T-50 PAK-FA and they have a vested interest in putting down the T-50 PAK-FA.

What they are doing is using selective information without giving the full picture.

Yes, its true that the present radar and engine of the T-50 PAK-FA are not quite up there although the engine allows the T-50 PAK-FA to supercruise at a decent speed and that is one of the criteria elements of a 5th generation fighter, but the actual reality of the situation is that the radar and engine currently being used are just beefed up versions of the older engines and radars because the development work of the engine and radar that will be standard in the T-50 PAK-FA is not finished yet, it will take 1 or 2 more years.

The T-50 PAK-FA will be a great fighter and will be able to take on anything, just need to let the Russians finish the work.

Also, the Russian philosophy for a 5th generation fighter is not the same as to what the Americans follow, the Americans put a lot more emphasis on stealth while the Russians are not willing to sacrifice manoeuvrability for stealth as the Americans have done on the F-35.

China bought the SU-35 mainly to copy the technology of the engines.

@Barmaley @vostok Do you have anything to add to what I wrote?

 

[Nike]

That's not quite the reality of the situation. First of all, the comments in the article come from Lockheed Martin which makes the rival of the T-50 PAK-FA and they have a vested interest in putting down the T-50 PAK-FA.

What they are doing is using selective information without giving the full picture.

Yes, its true that the present radar and engine of the T-50 PAK-FA are not quite up there although the engine allows the T-50 PAK-FA to supercruise at a decent speed and that is one of the criteria elements of a 5th generation fighter, but the actual reality of the situation is that the radar and engine currently being used are just beefed up versions of the older engines and radars because the development work of the engine and radar that will be standard in the T-50 PAK-FA is not finished yet, it will take 1 or 2 more years.

The T-50 PAK-FA will be a great fighter and will be able to take on anything, just need to let the Russians finish the work.

Also, the Russian philosophy for a 5th generation fighter is not the same as to what the Americans follow, the Americans put a lot more emphasis on stealth while the Russians are not willing to sacrifice manoeuvrability for stealth as the Americans have done on the F-35.

China bought the SU-35 mainly to copy the technology of the engines.

@Barmaley @vostok Do you have anything to add to what I wrote?

Quick facts i get during my visit in Singapore Air Show

1. T-50 development progress is in limbo because Russian lacks of resources (especially funds) because of the current economic crisis, unless they had agreeing something with the Indian but the spokesperson i met is only wish the best about the negotiation, so i will do the same here.
2. The Russian will press hardy the Su-35 upgrading project, as it was their most potent Superiority Fighter currently in production line right now. That's why our Defense Minister clearly said, he only wants to bought a limited number of the current version of Su-35 because the Russian had said the new advanced Su-35 versions is will be online soon in near future.
3. The Russian actually is trying to sell Su-35 to Vietnam, but Vietnam sides right now is still prioritizing other acquisitions (S-400 and Yak-130 presumably from what i heard).
4. T-50 is actually Russian answer toward F-22 Raptor, not F-35. F-35 is clearly a different beast compared to the likes of T-50 and Raptor, as they were actually the American answer toward future combat on how to destroying enemies Air Forces before they can flight in first place. Interesting notes is F-22 is such a beauty and elegant, and i can never got tired to admit if the Raptor clearly three steps more advance than what US competitor can give right now.

just a bonus

 

[Viet]

Have we posted this news?

Lauching two brand new ships for Australia Navy: MV Besant completed after 26 months, MV Stoker was built in 12 months by DAMEN Shipyards in Vietnam. 2,093 tons, 83 m length. Special task of the vessels: rescue operation for submarines in distress.

Another contract for Vietnam Shipyard: Helicopter Training Ship for Australia Navy, MATV 2300 (based on Damen OPV 2400), will be built by Damen Song Cam Shipyard. 2,400 tons.

a Ocean Research for Vietnam Navy under construction in shipyard X51

 

[Carlosa]

Quick facts i get during my visit in Singapore Air Show

1. T-50 development progress is in limbo because Russian lacks of resources (especially funds) because of the current economic crisis, unless they had agreeing something with the Indian but the spokesperson i met is only wish the best about the negotiation, so i will do the same here.
2. The Russian will press hardy the Su-35 upgrading project, as it was their most potent Superiority Fighter currently in production line right now. That's why our Defense Minister clearly said, he only wants to bought a limited number of the current version of Su-35 because the Russian had said the new advanced Su-35 versions is will be online soon in near future.
3. The Russian actually is trying to sell Su-35 to Vietnam, but Vietnam sides right now is still prioritizing other acquisitions (S-400 and Yak-130 presumably from what i heard).
4. T-50 is actually Russian answer toward F-22 Raptor, not F-35. F-35 is clearly a different beast compared to the likes of T-50 and Raptor, as they were actually the American answer toward future combat on how to destroying enemies Air Forces before they can flight in first place. Interesting notes is F-22 is such a beauty and elegant, and i can never got tired to admit if the Raptor clearly three steps more advance than what US competitor can give right now.

just a bonus

View attachment 294745

Good info, thank you.

Yes, I know the F-35 is a totally different beast than the F-22, but the reason why I said that the F-35 is Lockheed Martin's competitor of the T-50 PAK-FA is because the F-22 is not for export, so the actual competition in the export market for 5th generation fighters will be between the T-50 PAK-FA and the F-35.

Interesting to hear about the SU-35 for Vietnam. I did get information from the people of the Russian forum that Russia expects a Vietnamese order for the SU-35 in 2018-19. The information comes from component suppliers of the SU-35, so its supposed to be reliable, but as usual with Vietnamese purchases, nothing is for sure until you see it.

An upgraded SU-35 would really be something to see, the SU-35 is a hell of a plane already. I can see now why Indonesia reduced the order from 16 to 10.

Have to see what happens with India and the T-50 PAK-FA, but I think India will go for it in the end since they really don't have any realistic alternative to it and they are really short of aircraft. I think at the most, they'll wait until the development is finished. They already got substantial discounts.

Yes, the F-22 is a beauty.

Please report any other interesting gossip that you get.

 

[Viet]

not a new picture, a modernized T54-M3 in test firing. I wonder when we can hear some news coming out about the modernization of Vietnam Tank Divisions. How many tanks has the PLA? some 9,000 pieces as I read. Crazy.

the backbone of Vietnam air defence: S-75 surface to air missile.

sleepless. night training for infantrymen

 

[Nike]

Good info, thank you.

Yes, I know the F-35 is a totally different beast than the F-22, but the reason why I said that the F-35 is Lockheed Martin's competitor of the T-50 PAK-FA is because the F-22 is not for export, so the actual competition in the export market for 5th generation fighters will be between the T-50 PAK-FA and the F-35.

Interesting to hear about the SU-35 for Vietnam. I did get information from the people of the Russian forum that Russia expects a Vietnamese order for the SU-35 in 2018-19. The information comes from component suppliers of the SU-35, so its supposed to be reliable, but as usual with Vietnamese purchases, nothing is for sure until you see it.

An upgraded SU-35 would really be something to see, the SU-35 is a hell of a plane already. I can see now why Indonesia reduced the order from 16 to 10.

Have to see what happens with India and the T-50 PAK-FA, but I think India will go for it in the end since they really don't have any realistic alternative to it and they are really short of aircraft. I think at the most, they'll wait until the development is finished. They already got substantial discounts.

Yes, the F-22 is a beauty.

Please report any other interesting gossip that you get.

CN-235 MPA is currently being offered to Vietnam vigorously by our sides since the P3 Vietnam supposedly get from US is still doesn't get a clear sight in near future. Defense industrial collaboration and cooperation is being offered by Indonesian government and Vietnam side is agreed, still mapping what we can offered to Vietnam and vice versa though. Indonesia is currently working on smart bomb (JDAM like devices as we get assistance from several US company like Honeywell and other) to be used on our Flanker and F-16 though, and that's will be a nice addition to Vietnam arsenal in near future i think. They can reduced the necessities to use high end missile system like Kh missile series.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

According to Western media, China has installed HQ-9 SAM on the Paracel Island.

Beijing's missile move in South China Sea could make US think twice about getting too close | World news | The Guardian

I wonder if Vietnam could do the same on one of its Spratly Islands.

Ofcourse they can do, all they need to contact Israel, and ask ELM 2084 & Barak 2 or David's Sling.

Both use same MMR ELM 2084.

 

[Barmaley]

That's not quite the reality of the situation. First of all, the comments in the article come from Lockheed Martin which makes the rival of the T-50 PAK-FA and they have a vested interest in putting down the T-50 PAK-FA.

What they are doing is using selective information without giving the full picture.

Yes, its true that the present radar and engine of the T-50 PAK-FA are not quite up there although the engine allows the T-50 PAK-FA to supercruise at a decent speed and that is one of the criteria elements of a 5th generation fighter, but the actual reality of the situation is that the radar and engine currently being used are just beefed up versions of the older engines and radars because the development work of the engine and radar that will be standard in the T-50 PAK-FA is not finished yet, it will take 1 or 2 more years.

The T-50 PAK-FA will be a great fighter and will be able to take on anything, just need to let the Russians finish the work.

Also, the Russian philosophy for a 5th generation fighter is not the same as to what the Americans follow, the Americans put a lot more emphasis on stealth while the Russians are not willing to sacrifice manoeuvrability for stealth as the Americans have done on the F-35.

China bought the SU-35 mainly to copy the technology of the engines.

@Barmaley @vostok Do you have anything to add to what I wrote?

It's will be offtop since its a Vietnamese defence thread, but i want to notice that in this article they don't even know that PAK-FA using Belka AESA radar and the AL-41F1(product 117) engine different from the Su-35 AL-41F1S(product 117C). The Su-35 engine has less trust at 500kg and different electromechanical control system.

Radar:
Byelka (radar) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So the quality of this article is kinda low, but you are right when you notice that LM fear of Sukhoi competition in Asian Market, because they know that there is low chances they will found a buyer for the F-35 there. Countries who currently buying F-35 are NATO and american puppets and has no others choose.



I could explain, if you want why the PAK-FA is already better than any existing 5th generation aircraft and why he's will become even more advancer in near future.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

Vietnam´s National Satellite Center

...just coming in the news: Vu Anh Tuan, Deputy Director of the National Satellite Center, announces two new satellites, worth US$ 600 million, will be launched into space in 2019. no further details given, just satellites will help boost agricultural production and minimize natural disaster impact. I assume they are earth observation satellites, with high resolution camera and radars on-board, not only good for civil but also for military purposes. one of them can be Japan X-band satellite, a variant of ASNARO, with optical sensors capable to make/recognise images/objects of resolution of 0.5 m across.


Japan’s NEC Looks To Expand Commercial Market Footprint - SpaceNews.com

I dont know there are funds problem or other thing, if Vietnam seriously want day & night imaging capabilities at LEO, then again they all need to ask from Israel to build a variant of TecSar for them.

For MEO, they all need to ask India to build variant of RISAT-1 or CartoSat.

 

[Viet]

Vietnam got to mixed it up with European planes if they want to deter their big neighbor. Some nations own a mix of both just like Indonesia and Malaysia. This is probably India's strategy in their latest French fighters purchase.
How can you deter an enemy that knows all the pro and con of your weapon.


Here's an interesting article that said that the Su-35 is not that much better than the future Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA:
Singapore Airshow 2016: Analysis - PAK-FA's Asian export hopes stymied by lack of 'fifth-generation' qualities | IHS Jane's 360

It makes you wonder why a certain superpower buys 24 Su-35.

Your enemy having similar or same weapons is not the decisive factor. Nor winning a war is more than just counting numbers. Number of men, number of weapons. Sure, as you may have already heard about it: also, Vietnam seeks assistance in the West to counter chinese aggression. And the key to open the door lies in Washington.

I think the US government agrees to end the arms embargo, but there is still strong resistance in the Congress. But sooner or later the people in America will realize it is only Vietnam that is capable to stop chinese expansion in the region, maintaining peace and stability in the SC Sea.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

@Viet
I am wondering what modifications/upgrades did Vietnam/Russia did for T-54/T-55's?

What T-54/T-55M3's have over original's?

 

[Carlosa]

It's will be offtop since its a Vietnamese defence thread, but i want to notice that in this article they don't even know that PAK-FA using Belka AESA radar and the AL-41F1(product 117) engine different from the Su-35 AL-41F1S(product 117C). The Su-35 engine has less trust at 500kg and different electromechanical control system.

Radar:
Byelka (radar) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So the quality of this article is kinda low, but you are right when you notice that LM fear of Sukhoi competition in Asian Market, because they know that there is low chances they will found a buyer for the F-35 there. Countries who currently buying F-35 are NATO and american puppets and has no others choose.



I could explain, if you want why the PAK-FA is already better than any existing 5th generation aircraft and why he's will become even more advancer in near future.

Yes, please explain the differences in more detail.
That subject is not off topic since Vietnam plans to get the T-50 in the 2020s anyway.
The Indonesian members also regularly read this thread and Indonesia is buying the SU-35 so its all related.

Ofcourse they can do, all they need to contact Israel, and ask ELM 2084 & Barak 2 or David's Sling.

Both use same MMR ELM 2084.

I think you meant Barak 8. David's Sling looks mighty good, but its still in development.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

I think you meant Barak 8. David's Sling looks mighty good, but its still in development.

Barak-2 is actually the land version of Barak-8, but this is also in R&D. IAF expected to deploy first battery by 2018, so we can expect first test of this missile by this year.

Also the range of Barak-2 is much higher than Barak-8 ( arnd 130-150 KM) , and also known as LR-SAM. Barak-2 is specifically designed to intercept Aircrafts & Cruise Missiles, while David's Sling specifically designed to intercept SRBM.

So, I think Vietnam should think of deploying this as force mix as it going to use same Fire Control Radar & C&C System.

 

[Viet]

@Viet
I am wondering what modifications/upgrades did Vietnam/Russia did for T-54/T-55's?

What T-54/T-55M3's have over original's?

here some details. the plan sees domestic companies working together with Israel, Germany and Ukraine on the modernization, upgrading the actual VPA´s T54/T55 850 tanks. as for Russia, the plan sees importing some 1,000 pieces of T72/T90 from Russia and former Washauer Pact, and we upgrade them in Vietnam. Alltogether, including former US tanks, we would have 2,000 tanks, and could form several VPA tank armies. the backbone of Vietnam Ground Force.

but the whole project is delayed by many reasons.



Vietnamese armed forces modernize its fleet of main battle tanks T-55 to standard T 54/55M3 2503124 | weapons defence industry military technology UK | analyse focus army defence military industry army


- A new main armament with the Israeli 105mm M68/L7 which can fire modern ammunition as APDS, APER-T (Anti-personnel tracer), APFSDS, HE, HEAT, Smoke.

- A 60mm mortar mounted on the top of the turret as the Israeli main battle tank Merkava and magach which can be used against infantry in fortification, trenches or buildings.

- A meteo Sensors mast which provides meteorological information’s as direction and speed wind, temperature and atmospheric pressure to increase accuracy coupled with the firing computer system. This equipment could be the MAWS6056B sensor mast designed and manufactured the Swiss Company IRDAM, who would not confirm or deny this information.

- T-54/T-55M3 will be equipped with a new Israeli explosive reactive armour to increase the protection of the vehicle against anti-tank rockets and missiles. Th upper part of the suspension of each side is protected by armour plates. Smoke grenade launchers are mounted to each side of the turret to create an automatic smoke cloud against laser beam or aim.

- A new high power 1,000 hp. engine developed and manufacture in Germany, gearbox and transmission from Ukraine. With this new power pack the mobility of the tank will be increased significantly.


105mm main cannon

explosive reactive armour

60mm mortar mounted on the top of the turret

T55-M3 prototype Test firing

T54-M3 prototype