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China and Vietnam: Thoughts From a Chinese Sojourner in Ho Chi Minh City
Different interpretations of history showcase hidden tensions in the China-Vietnam relationship.

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By Xie Tao
March 02, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/03/chin...from-a-chinese-sojourner-in-ho-chi-minh-city/

In early February, I paid my second visit to Ho Chi Minh city, Vietnam. Unlike my first visit, which was four years ago, this time I decided to spend much of the five days exploring the various museums in the city. It was the dry season in Vietnam, and the museums would provide a pleasant shelter from the sizzling heat in the streets. Also, my son was only four years old during my first visit, and I thought four years later he was old enough to learn from the museums a little bit about the history and culture of a country he has visited twice.

Most importantly, as a Chinese political scientist, I was hoping that these museums would help me to find out how Vietnam views its relations with China. Given the critical role of museums — along with maps and censuses — in the formation of national identities, as discussed in great length by Benedict Anderson in his widely acclaimed The Imagined Community, I was certain that the Vietnamese government’s narrative on the bilateral relationship would be different from that of the Chinese government, but I didn’t know how exactly they would differ from each other.

In the morning of my second day, I went to the War Remnants Museum. I had heard from those who had been to the museum that it is dedicated solely to the war between Vietnam and the United States. Also I had known that China provided a massive amount of aid to the Vietnamese people during the Vietnam War, though Beijing has never disclosed the exact numbers. One Chinese sources estimated the amount to be roughly $20 billion (calculated on the basis of prices in the 1970s), which is worth about 5 trillion RMB today. Additionally, Beijing sent more than 300,000 military personnel across the border between 1965 and 1968, according to another source. Thus before arriving at the museum, I had the expectation that at least one or two exhibits in the museum would gratefully acknowledge China’s generous assistance to Vietnam.

The ground floor of the museum is a collection of photos and posters. The photos document anti-war rallies, demonstrations, and protests across the world (including in the United States), while the posters use words and pictures to convey international support for Vietnam and opposition to the United States. Toward the end of the collection I came upon three photos. The first showed Mao Zedong shaking hands with Ho Chi Minh. In the second photo two balloons with long banners — one read “long live Chairman Mao” and the other “long live Chairman Ho” — were floating above the Tiananmen Square in Beijing, which was packed with crowds. The third depicted Mao receiving a visiting Vietnamese delegation. It turned out that these three photos were the only exhibits in the three-story museum that suggested Vietnamese acknowledgement of and gratitude for Chinese assistance during the Vietnam War.

In the afternoon of the fourth day, I traveled to the History Museum. After quickly going through the first two exhibits, which featured traditional artifacts and dresses, I found myself at the entrance to the third exhibit. At the top of the entrance was a placard that read “Chinese Occupation — The Struggle for Independence.” The third exhibit consisted of two dozen or so posters and replicated maps. I was particularly fascinated by one poster, which reads as follows (verbatim):

“After the defeat of King An Duong in the resistance against Trieu Da (179 B.C.), Vietnam was ruled, exploited and assimilated by Chinese feudal groups. During more 1,000 years, Vietnamese people struggled firmly to preserve cultural tradition, national language, received and vietnamized elements of Han culture; rose simultaneously in more 100 rebellions against aggressors in order to get sovereignty with the first revolt of two Trung sisters (40-43 A.D.). In 938, Ngo Quyen expelled completely the Chinese aggressor on the historical Bach Dang river, began the era of the freedom and independence for Vietnamese people.”

The poster was followed by a series of replicated maps, which indicated not only the routes of successive “Chinese aggression,” but also the locations of Vietnamese resistance against such aggression. One map depicted the “typical revolts against the northern aggressors (1st-10th century).” Another portrayed the “victory of Dai Viet army against Song aggressors (1076-1077).” A third map showed the “Lam Son insurrection (1418-1427).” By the time I walked out of the entrance, I had gained a clear sense of how China was — and probably still is — viewed by its neighbor to the south.

Back at my hotel room in the evening, I was trying to make sense of what I saw in the History Museum. I happened to have with me a copy of the 2014 Lonely Planet travel book on Vietnam, so I began to read the brief introduction on Vietnam’s history. Then I came across a section headlined “China Bites Back,” which reads as follows:

“The Chinese took control of Vietnam again in the early 15th century, taking the national archives and some of the country’s intellectuals back to Nanjing [the capital of Ming dynasty] — a loss that was to have lasting impact on Vietnamese civilization. Heavy taxation and slave labor were also typical of the era. The poet Nguyen Trai (1380-1442) wrote of this period: ‘Were the waters of the Eastern Sea to be exhausted, the stains of their ignominy could not be washed away; all the bamboo of the Southern Mountains would not suffice to provide the paper for recording all their crimes.’”

To be honest, I was not prepared at all for such a poem. Indeed, for me, it could have easily passed as a poem that denounces the Japanese invasion of China had the author of the poem not been identified. I was truly shocked by the intensity of resentment in between the lines. To be sure, I was fully aware that the two countries have had a troubled relationship since the late 1970s: a border clash in 1979, naval skirmishes in the South China Sea in the early 1980s, and tensions over disputed islands in the South China Sea since 2010. But I didn’t know that Vietnamese animosity toward China runs so deep and powerful. Just as “a century of humiliation” has become an integral part of the Chinese collective memory, so has “one thousand years of Chinese rule” evolved to be a core component of the Vietnamese national identity, regardless of the Chinese memory or whether the Vietnamese identity is spontaneous or manufactured.

Putting aside the Lonely Planet book, I tried to make sense of Vietnam-China relations. All of a sudden I remembered a quote widely attributed to Ho Chi Minh, the father of modern Vietnam. Ho reportedly made the following remarks in 1946, shortly after he agreed to allow French troops to return to Vietnam.

“You fools! Don’t you realize what it means if the Chinese remain? Don’t you remember your history? The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years. The French are foreigners. They are weak. Colonialism is dying. The white man is finished in Asia. But if the Chinese stay now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French shit for five years than to eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life.”

Ho’s quick forgiveness of the French colonists goes a long way toward explaining the Vietnamese people’s apparent magnanimity toward Americans. One exhibit in the War Remnants Museum says 3 million Vietnamese were killed (among them 2 million civilians), 2 million injured, plus 300,000 missing in the war with the United States. On top of this horrible loss of human life is the enormous harm to both the local environment and residents caused by Agent Orange. It is likely that the ignominies and crimes committed by Americans about ten years are much worse than those inflicted by China over more than a thousand years. Yet the Vietnamese seem to have quickly gotten over American atrocities.

What can the past tell us about the future of Vietnam-China relations? One lesson seems to be in order: The centrifugal forces of nationalism are far more powerful than the centripetal forces of communism. Just as Mao eventually broke with Stalin, so did Ho eventually turn his back against Mao. Scratch a communist, and you will find a nationalist not far under the surface. As long as memories about “a thousand years of Chinese rule” remain fresh in the Vietnamese collective consciousness, Beijing’s promise of peaceful rise will ring hollow, and ongoing tensions in the South China Sea will only make that promise even hollower. Hanoi will continue to seek support from third parties in order to prepare itself for an unpeaceful rise of China.

With these thoughts, I am getting ready for my next stop: Yangon, Myanmar.
 
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A remarkable speech of Japanese Emperor Akihito at a banquet sponsored by Vietnam President Tran Dai Quang in Hanoi on Wednesday. Not because he wishes Japan and Vietnam to deepen understanding and reinforce ties, but he mentions of 180,000 Vietnamese residing in Japan. The number includes students and interns. An interesting fact considering the number of Vietnamese in Japan was very low just few years ago. Also, there are numerous visa violations of Vietnamese tourists. They look for jobs and stay in Japan. Regardless the emperor says he is pleased in seeing Japan and Vietnam have very close cultural ties. Maybe Akihito should tell Shinzo Abe government to open the labor market. Japan needs people. Vietnam has too many. Anyway all is not really a defense news here.

But should VN-JP relationship continue to improve, the military may follow. We will soon see Japanese attack submarines to dock in Camranh bay.

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Thu Mar 2, 2017 | 3:31 AM EST
Japanese emperor meets former soldiers' families in Vietnam

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By My Pham | HANOI
Reuters

Japan's Emperor Akihito met the Vietnamese families of Japanese World War Two soldiers on Thursday on his first visit to Vietnam, one of many trips he has used to try to soothe the wounds of war.

Some 16 descendants of marriages between Vietnamese women and Japanese soldiers met Emperor Akihito, 83, and Empress Michiko, 82, including 94-year-old widow Nguyen Thi Xuan. Most of the family members were in their 60s.

"We would like to share our understanding toward your difficult time in the past," the empress told Xuan.

While most Japanese soldiers returned home from occupied Indochina after Japan's defeat in 1945, some 600 remained to join Vietnamese independence leader Ho Chi Minh's Viet Minh in fighting French colonial forces.

After that war ended, the former soldiers went back to Japan, but many were unable to take their families with them.

"I'm so touched to meet the emperor and empress today. Though old now, they still fly all the way here to meet us," said Xuan, the only surviving widow attending the meeting.

Although Emperor Akihito has no political power, his overseas trips often have diplomatic overtones and the visit to Vietnam comes at a time of strengthening relations between Japan and Vietnam because of shared concern about the rise of China.

Japan has been Vietnam's biggest aid donor over four decades. For private investment, it ranks second to South Korea.

"We thank you and hope the ties between our countries will be better and better," Xuan said as she gave the imperial couple a hug.
 
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Vietnam eyes Israeli weapons for air force use

Vietnam is considering a purchase of advanced weapon systems from Israel, with the nation’s air force eyeing an advanced version of the Israel Military Industries (IMI) Delilah standoff-range air-to-surface missile.

The system was included in recent discussions between Vietnamese president Tran Dai Quang and IMI chairman Yitzhak Aharonovitch in Hanoi. Israel has become a significant partner to Vietnam in defence activities.

First used in combat by Israeli Lockheed Martin F-16s over Lebanon in 2006, the Delilah has a range of 135nm (250km) and can carry a variety of warheads. IMI has been upgrading the weapon’s capabilities, based on the operational experience of its domestic customer. The missile is 2.7m (8.8ft) long and weighs 187kg (400lb).

Flight Fleets Analyzer records the Vietnamese People’s Air Force as operating 36 Sukhoi Su-22 strike aircraft and 40 Su-27/30-series fighters.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/vietnam-eyes-israeli-weapons-for-air-force-use-434742/
 
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Usually the Japanese aren´t the ones that bow to anybody. least Japanese emperor, a god like figure in ancient Japan. for thousands of years, Japan emperor expects his subjects to bow down before him. Vietnam dispatched throughout history envoy to China´s imperial court to pay respect and tribute to the Son of Heaven, including a bow-down or kowtow, but in contrast the Japanese never did such a thing. here during the on-going state visit to VN the imperial couple paid respect to the late Ho Chi Minh. an interesting fact about Ho and Japan: at the turn of the century during the French colonisation period, Ho secretly organised sending Viet students to Japan to learn Japanese warfare, finding a way to defeat France. the French were not amused, after they detected the mission of Ho. Tension between France and Japan was raising.


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Vietnam to deploy more vessels to protect fishermen amid Chinese fishing ban
By Pham Huong March 3, 2017 | 08:59 pm GMT+7
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Two fisheries surveillance ships operated by the Directorate of Fisheries under Vietnam’s Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development. Photo by VnExpress/Van Duong
Surveillance ships will have plenty to keep their eyes on as tensions mount once again in the troubled waters.
Vietnam will dispatch fisheries surveillance ships to protect and assist its fishermen in areas where China has issued unilateral fishing bans in the East Sea, internationally known as South China Sea.

China’s Ministry of Agriculture on Monday issued a ban on fishing in a number of areas from May 1 to August 16, which include the Gulf of Tonkin near the Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands in the East Sea.

Vietnam has condemned the ban, saying China’s move has seriously violated its maritime sovereignty over Hoang Sa.

The Directorate of Fisheries under Vietnam’s Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development will deploy fisheries surveillance ships across its territorial waters with a focus on the areas where China has issued its illegal fishing ban, Vu Duyen Hai, an official from the directorate, told a press briefing on Friday.

Fishermen are advised to only operate in safe areas and in groups while maintaining communication with their local governments, surveillance ships and other forces should an incident occur, Hai said.

China has been issuing the so-called fishing ban since 1999, despite opposition from Vietnam and other countries in the region.

In 1974, taking advantage of the withdrawal of American troops from the Vietnam War, China invaded Hoang Sa. A brief but bloody naval battle with the forces of the then U.S.-backed Republic of Vietnam ensued.

The Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands, the other hotspot in the region, is claimed in part by China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

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Vietnam snares Chinese boats for illegal fishing
By Hoang Tao March 3, 2017 | 02:12 pm GMT+7
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A Chinese boat caught fishing illegally in Vietnamese waters on Thursday. Photo by VnExpress/Duc Tri

Three Chinese boats were caught fishing just 40 kilometers off the country's central coast.

Border guards in the central province of Quang Binh on Thursday seized two fishing boats with nine Chinese crew on board and chased away another for violating Vietnamese waters.

The boats were caught fishing around 40 kilometers offshore and more than 20 kilometers beyond the fishing grounds shared by Vietnam and China.

Quang Binh sent 16 border guards to stop two of the boats. The nine Chinese fishermen had to sign penalty documents before they were released. The third Chinese boat upped anchor and fled.

China’s agriculture ministry last month issued an international ban on fishing in a number of areas from May 1 to August 16, which include the waters in the Gulf of Tonkin in the East Sea, known internationally as the South China Sea.

Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry and its fishing associations have both strongly opposed the ban, saying it seriously violates Vietnam’s sovereignty.
 
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Usually the Japanese aren´t the ones that bow to anybody. least Japanese emperor, a god like figure in ancient Japan. for thousands of years, Japan emperor expects his subjects to bow down before him. Vietnam dispatched throughout history envoy to China´s imperial court to pay respect and tribute to the Son of Heaven, including a bow-down or kowtow, but in contrast the Japanese never did such a thing. here during the on-going state visit to VN the imperial couple paid respect to the late Ho Chi Minh. an interesting fact about Ho and Japan: at the turn of the century during the French colonisation period, Ho secretly organised sending Viet students to Japan to learn Japanese warfare, finding a way to defeat France. the French were not amused, after they detected the mission of Ho. Tension between France and Japan was raising.


Vietnam_Japan_Emperor_52074.jpg

Vietnam_Japan_Emperor_56753.jpg
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Vietnam imperial seal

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seal1.jpg


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Sword of a Nguyen emperor
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The golden seal i posted was given to the Japanese king during the Han dynasty and is now in the Japanese museum. Since you said they never accepted any title from the central kingdom.
PS: Why did you posting the Vietnam's seal and sword?:coffee:
 
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The golden seal i posted was given to the Japanese king during the Han dynasty and is now in the Japanese museum. Since you said they never accepted any title from the central kingdom.
PS: Why did you posting the Vietnam's seal and sword?:coffee:
I wrote the Japanese never bow down to China. You may ask why Vietnam did but Japan never.

Any problem with Vietnam imperial seals?
 
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I wrote the Japanese never bow down to China. You may ask why Vietnam did but Japan never.

Any problem with Vietnam imperial seals?
Never?During Han,Wei,Sui and Tang, they were taking the title with grateful,thus they were indeed a part of tributary system.
 
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Never?During Han,Wei,Sui and Tang, they were taking the title with grateful,thus they were indeed a part of tributary system.
You mean Okinawa. Yes it paid tribute to China but it paid tribute to Japan too. It became part of Japan in 19 century because it was annexed by Japan. Japan was itself never a part of China tribute system.
 
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You mean Okinawa. Yes it paid tribute to China but it paid tribute to Japan too. It became part of Japan in 19 century because it was annexed by Japan. Japan was itself never a part of China tribute system.
Han and Okinawa?:o::o::o:
 
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View attachment 381571

Viets giving history lesson? What a failure
Haven't you noticed something don't add up. The Ming dynasty lasts nearly 300 years but Japan sent only 20 missions to China?

How is it possible?

Vietnam was required to show up at China imperial court at least once a year when the emperor celebrated his birthday. In addition to other occasions when he had new concubines, celebrated new conquests, new achievements every one or every two years. We had probably dispatched 1,000 missions to China during the Ming. And that although running tension between Vietnam and China.
 
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