What's new

Vietnam Defence Forum

and about the Su-22 , i got info from a source say that those Su-22 pilot are having a sea-attack training include a sharp dive and quickly exit after dropping their loads , one of the Su-22 may have (still not know is this a human error or the weather ) crash into his wingman , parachutes have been recoverd so lets hope that we find them before East Sea claim them first............best hope for our pilot...........
 
.
and about the Su-22 , i got info from a source say that those Su-22 pilot are having a sea-attack training include a sharp dive and quickly exit after dropping their loads , one of the Su-22 may have (still not know is this a human error or the weather ) crash into his wingman , parachutes have been recoverd so lets hope that we find them before East Sea claim them first............best hope for our pilot...........

Yes, I hope so.
 
.
Vietnamplus: pilots not found yet. search and rescue mission suspended because of darkness and bad weather.
 
.
So I ask you, has Russia ever made deals that puts VietNam at a great disadvantage? Russia did in the past and continue to do so today (S-400)
Bad news:

TASS: Russia - China becomes first foreign buyer of Russian S-400 air defense system — media

Russia
April 13

1089679.jpg


MOSCOW, April 13. /TASS/. China has purchased S-400 missile defense systems from Russia, director general of Russia's major arms exporting company Rosoborobexport Anatoly Isaykin has told the Kommersant daily in an interview.

Isaykin refused to disclose terms of contract but confirmed that China had become the first buyer of the cutting-edge air defense system. He noted that it emphasizes the strategic nature of Russian-Chinese relations.

The systems, which are capable of launching up to 72 missiles and engaging up to 36 targets simultaneously, entered service in 2007 to replace the S-300 systems.S-400 Triumf is designed to shield from air strikes, strategic, cruise, tactical and operating tactical ballistic missiles and medium-range ballistic missiles.
I wonder, why overhyped S-300 and S-400 is never considered by India? Thats interesting.

In 90s India bought some S-300, but never again shown interest in this system again. Or that system was never offered to India again, but thats highly unlikely? @Carlosa @Viet Anything you know about it. Instead India chose a very different path for SAM.
 
Last edited:
.
meh i i just purely hate this crap , 3 helicopters and 2 jets in just 2 years , 25 dead 2 wounded and 2 currently missing ..............................whats wrong with our airforce ? .......................
 
.
meh i i just purely hate this crap , 3 helicopters and 2 jets in just 2 years , 25 dead 2 wounded and 2 currently missing ..............................whats wrong with our airforce ? .......................
the airforce still has too much scrap in the inventory. poor training may be blamed, but even with new jets, accidents can happen.
 
.
the airforce still has too much scrap in the inventory. poor training may be blamed, but even with new jets, accidents can happen.

Too much money is going into ships that have little chance of success in case of conflict and not enough money is going into aircraft, even that those are the ones that have good chances of success. With the money going into 2 Gepards, you can get 12 SU-30s.

The air force has being getting too little investment. Too much money is also going into the army now even that it should be a lower priority than the air force.

I wonder, why overhyped S-300 and S-400 is never considered by India? Thats interesting.

In 90s India bought some S-300, but never again shown interest in this system again. Or that system was never offered to India again, but thats highly unlikely? @Carlosa @Viet Anything you know about it. Instead India chose a very different path for SAM.

I don't know why India is not interested in S-300 / 400. The S-400 does have good features and its great in terms of range at 400 km. That being said, India's choice of Barak 8 / Spyder is very good, but I'm not sure what India uses for longer range air defense, Akash maybe?
Was India just trying to develop its own system in that category?
 
.
Too much money is going into ships that have little chance of success in case of conflict and not enough money is going into aircraft, even that those are the ones that have good chances of success. With the money going into 2 Gepards, you can get 12 SU-30s.

The air force has being getting too little investment.
Actually I think 6 sub is quite enough for 10 year from now, that why the next step Vietnam will focus on frigate and aircraft, and more and more Su will come

I don't know why India is not interested in S-300 / 400. The S-400 does have good features and its great in terms of range at 400 km. That being said, India's choice of Barak 8 / Spyder is very good, but I'm not sure what India uses for longer range air defense, Akash maybe?
Was India just trying to develop its own system in that category?
Akash seem to be medium range air defence system, not long range
They now co-operation with Israel to develop them, not just buy only, you can search about some project such as Barak-8 and MRSAM
 
.
I don't know why India is not interested in S-300 / 400. The S-400 does have good features and its great in terms of range at 400 km. That being said, India's choice of Barak 8 / Spyder is very good, but I'm not sure what India uses for longer range air defense, Akash maybe?
Was India just trying to develop its own system in that category?

Actually S-300, S-400 and S-500 are all meant for high altitude bogies. Like bombers and SRBM.

For that India developing BMD, good example is AAD with range of 200 KM.
Indian Ballistic Missile Defence Programme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But they are not meant for low skimming cruise missile, or fighter coming with terrain hugging for SEAD ops.
The S-300, S-400 and S-500 always fail in this environment. These systems are meant for protecting large cities not military installations. The best solution still is actve seeker missile capable of sustaining high g,

Akash seem to be medium range air defence system, not long range
They now co-operation with Israel to develop them, not just buy only, you can search about some project such as Barak-8 and MRSAM
No system in India available to compare S-300, S-400 or S-500. And even India not interested to deploy them.
 
.
Actually S-300, S-400 and S-500 are all meant for high altitude bogies. Like bombers and SRBM.

For that India developing BMD, good example is AAD with range of 200 KM.
Indian Ballistic Missile Defence Programme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But they are not meant for low skimming cruise missile, or fighter coming with terrain hugging for SEAD ops.
The S-300, S-400 and S-500 always fail in this environment. These systems are meant for protecting large cities not military installations. The best solution still is actve seeker missile capable of sustaining high g,

The S-300 / 400 family has a 40 km range missile (9M96E missile) designed for intercepting low flying missiles and that same missile is now starting to get used in Russian ships as part of the Redut / Polyment system as an anti missile system to target sea skimming anti ship missiles. How good that missile is I don't know, but its being given priority over the Shtil system, so It should be ok.

That being said, Barak 8 its definitely a better system. I would say that it is the very best system.

The S-300, S-400 and S-500 always fail in this environment. These systems are meant for protecting large cities not military installations. The best solution still is actve seeker missile capable of sustaining high g.

I could not agree more, and what active seeker missile has the highest G numbers?
Barak 8 at 80 G's and 500 meters minimum range, nothing else comes close to that.
Aster 30 can go up to 60 G's and 4 km minimum range.
 
.
The S-300 / 400 family has a 40 km range missile (9M96E missile) designed for intercepting low flying missiles and that same missile is now starting to get used in Russian ships as part of the Redut / Polyment system as an anti missile system to target sea skimming anti ship missiles. How good that missile is I don't know, but its being given priority over the Shtil system, so It should be ok.

That being said, Barak 8 its definitely a better system. I would say that it is the very best system.

Yes I know about 9M96E, actually even that is not capable to sustain g like Barak-8 and Aster.

When a modern fighter coming with terrain hugging with a capability to jam, even active radar homing are very vulnerable of jamming.
 
.
Yes I know about 9M96E, actually even that is not capable to sustain g like Barak-8 and Aster.

When a modern fighter coming with terrain hugging with a capability to jam, even active radar homing are very vulnerable of jamming.

Yes, Barak 8 and Aster are the best in that category.

MICA missiles can handle just 50 Gs.
 
.
Yes, Barak 8 and Aster are the best in that category.

Do you know how many G's can MICA missiles handle?

Thats a simple concept of calculating g,always worked for me. :P
the SAM which developed from BVR has capability to sustain 30-50g.

And the SAM which developed from short range AAM, they capable to sustain 40-80g.
 
.
Thats a simple concept of calculating g,always worked for me. :P
the SAM which developed from BVR has capability to sustain 30-50g.

And the SAM which developed from short range AAM, they capable to sustain 40-80g.

That's a good system. I just remembered now that MICA can handle the full G's (50) only during the first 7 km of trajectory when it has a lot of fuel inside. After that it loses G capability and it goes all the way down to 30 Gs. Not good.

Yes I know about 9M96E, actually even that is not capable to sustain g like Barak-8 and Aster.

When a modern fighter coming with terrain hugging with a capability to jam, even active radar homing are very vulnerable of jamming.

I just checked the G factor for the 9M96E missile and its actually not bad, 20 to 60 Gs depending on altitude.
60 Gs at sea level
20 Gs at 30,000 meter altitude

That missile its actually quite good. It has an active seeker and mid course data link update.

From Air power Australia website:

Fakel 9M96E and 9M96E2 Surface to Air Missiles

The third and fourth missiles are in effect equivalents to the ERINT/PAC-3 interceptor missile recently introduced to supplement the MIM-104 in Patriot batteries, but designed to also engage low and medium altitude aerial targets. These are the 9M96E and 9M96E2, largely identical with the latter version fitted with a larger powerplant. Fakel claim the 96M6E has a range of 21.6 nautical miles, and the 9M96E2 64.8 nautical miles, with altitude capabilities from 15 ft AGL up to 66 kft and 100 kft respectively.

The 9M96 missiles are “hittiles” designed for direct impact, and use canards and thrusters to achieve extremely high G and angular rate capability throughout the engagement envelope. An inertial package is used with a datalink from the 30N6E2/92N6E radar for midcourse guidance, with a radar homing seeker of an undisclosed type. The small 53 lb (24 kg) blast fragmentation warhead is designed to produce an controlled fragment pattern, using multiple initiators to shape the detonation wave through the explosive. A smart radio fuse is used to control the warhead timing and pattern. It is in effect a steerable shaped charge.

Both missiles use nose mounted canard control surfaces to effect a high turn rate at altitudes where air density permits the generation of high control forces. Fakel designers Bolotov and Mizrokhi cite 60G capability at sea level, and 20G at 30,000 metres, the latter using thruster control. This is required to effect a “hit-to-kill” endgame against ballistic and high speed aerial targets.

While the larger 9M96E2 is an almost direct equivalent in size and performance to the ERINT/PAC-3 round, its control arrangement is fundamentally different, both aerodynamically and in thruster arrangement. The 9M96E/E2 radial thruster package is located at the fuselage CoG, to generate a direct force to turn the missile, rather than producing a pitch/yaw moment to use body lift to turn, as is the case in the ERINT/PAC-3 design. The sleeve mounted tail surfaces are mechanically decoupled from the fuselage in roll, to minimise thruster induced rolling moments.

The smaller size of these weapons permits four to be loaded into the volume of a single 48N6E/5V55K/R launch tube container - a form fit four tube launcher container is used. A single 5P85S/T TEL can thus deploy up to 16 of these missiles, or mixes of 3 x 48N6 / 4 x 9M96E/E2, 2 x 48N6 / 8 x 9M96E/E2 or 1 x 48N6 / 12 x 9M96E/E2. The stated aim of this approach was to permit repeated launches against saturation attacks with precision guided munitions - in effect trading 9M96 rounds for incoming guided weapons. Fakel claim a single shot kill probability of 70% against a Harpoon class missile, and 90% against a manned aircraft.

The addition of the 9M96E/E2 missiles, which amount to a combined ABM and point defence weapon designs, is part of a broader Russian strategy of deploying air defence weapons capable of defeating PGM attacks, including the AGM-88 HARM family, and follow-on defence suppression weapons, the latter types intended to disable the S-400 battery acquisition and engagement radars. The advantage in using the 9M96E/E2 for this purpose is that it avoids the additional technical and operational complexity of directing other “counter-PGM” point defence weapons such as the Tor M1/M2, Tunguska M and Pantsir S/S1 series.
Some sources have credited the 9M96E/9M96E2 missiles to the S-300PMU1 and S-300PMU2 Favorit, which appears to have been the demonstration platform for prototypes of these missiles. Integration of these missiles on either of these systems will not present any challenges, due to backward compatibility in TELs and the use of a datalink supported active radar terminal seeker. To date there have been no disclosures on domestic production or export sales of the 9M96 series. Russia media reports in 2010 indicated that production may soon commence for use on S-400 systems, using a new four chamber launcher/container design with an identical form factor to the standard 48N6 design.
 
Last edited:
.
That's a good system. I just remembered now that MICA can handle the full G's (50) only during the first 7 km of trajectory when it has a lot of fuel inside. After that it loses G capability and it goes all the way down to 30 Gs. Not good.



I just checked the G factor for the 9M96E missile and its actually not bad, 20 to 60 Gs depending on altitude.
60 Gs at sea level
20 Gs at 30,000 meter altitude

That missile its actually quite good. It has an active seeker and mid course data link update.

From Air power Australia website:

Fakel 9M96E and 9M96E2 Surface to Air Missiles

The third and fourth missiles are in effect equivalents to the ERINT/PAC-3 interceptor missile recently introduced to supplement the MIM-104 in Patriot batteries, but designed to also engage low and medium altitude aerial targets. These are the 9M96E and 9M96E2, largely identical with the latter version fitted with a larger powerplant. Fakel claim the 96M6E has a range of 21.6 nautical miles, and the 9M96E2 64.8 nautical miles, with altitude capabilities from 15 ft AGL up to 66 kft and 100 kft respectively.

The 9M96 missiles are “hittiles” designed for direct impact, and use canards and thrusters to achieve extremely high G and angular rate capability throughout the engagement envelope. An inertial package is used with a datalink from the 30N6E2/92N6E radar for midcourse guidance, with a radar homing seeker of an undisclosed type. The small 53 lb (24 kg) blast fragmentation warhead is designed to produce an controlled fragment pattern, using multiple initiators to shape the detonation wave through the explosive. A smart radio fuse is used to control the warhead timing and pattern. It is in effect a steerable shaped charge.

Both missiles use nose mounted canard control surfaces to effect a high turn rate at altitudes where air density permits the generation of high control forces. Fakel designers Bolotov and Mizrokhi cite 60G capability at sea level, and 20G at 30,000 metres, the latter using thruster control. This is required to effect a “hit-to-kill” endgame against ballistic and high speed aerial targets.

While the larger 9M96E2 is an almost direct equivalent in size and performance to the ERINT/PAC-3 round, its control arrangement is fundamentally different, both aerodynamically and in thruster arrangement. The 9M96E/E2 radial thruster package is located at the fuselage CoG, to generate a direct force to turn the missile, rather than producing a pitch/yaw moment to use body lift to turn, as is the case in the ERINT/PAC-3 design. The sleeve mounted tail surfaces are mechanically decoupled from the fuselage in roll, to minimise thruster induced rolling moments.

The smaller size of these weapons permits four to be loaded into the volume of a single 48N6E/5V55K/R launch tube container - a form fit four tube launcher container is used. A single 5P85S/T TEL can thus deploy up to 16 of these missiles, or mixes of 3 x 48N6 / 4 x 9M96E/E2, 2 x 48N6 / 8 x 9M96E/E2 or 1 x 48N6 / 12 x 9M96E/E2. The stated aim of this approach was to permit repeated launches against saturation attacks with precision guided munitions - in effect trading 9M96 rounds for incoming guided weapons. Fakel claim a single shot kill probability of 70% against a Harpoon class missile, and 90% against a manned aircraft.

The addition of the 9M96E/E2 missiles, which amount to a combined ABM and point defence weapon designs, is part of a broader Russian strategy of deploying air defence weapons capable of defeating PGM attacks, including the AGM-88 HARM family, and follow-on defence suppression weapons, the latter types intended to disable the S-400 battery acquisition and engagement radars. The advantage in using the 9M96E/E2 for this purpose is that it avoids the additional technical and operational complexity of directing other “counter-PGM” point defence weapons such as the Tor M1/M2, Tunguska M and Pantsir S/S1 series.
Some sources have credited the 9M96E/9M96E2 missiles to the S-300PMU1 and S-300PMU2 Favorit, which appears to have been the demonstration platform for prototypes of these missiles. Integration of these missiles on either of these systems will not present any challenges, due to backward compatibility in TELs and the use of a datalink supported active radar terminal seeker. To date there have been no disclosures on domestic production or export sales of the 9M96 series. Russia media reports in 2010 indicated that production may soon commence for use on S-400 systems, using a new four chamber launcher/container design with an identical form factor to the standard 48N6 design.
The service ceiling is 16 Km of Barak-8, this missile never meant to target bombers or do a job of BMD.

But actually the second pulse motor and ARH activate at terminal phase, this missile is even capable to take high g even at high altitude.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom