Vietnam Defence Forum

[Viva_Viet]

courtesy to cnleio. comparison between the coast guards in east asia. interesting: the number of ships of the wannabe leader of asean and maritime power Indonesia is very low.

Wow, seem like corruption in Indo-Malays r even far worse than in VN, that's why their armed forces dont have enogh ships to protect their nations

 

[Aqsuperman]

Wow, seem like corruption in Indo-Malays r even far worse than in VN, that's why their armed forces dont have enogh ships to protect their nations

Technically speaking , except Philipine (which has a weak navy and lack of maritime asssets) , Malay and Indo both got a good navy and airforce , probably they intend to invest more in the military than its civillian counterpart on the sea

 

[William Hung]

wow wow wow what the heck is that ? Making up excuse ?
First , my Scud idea is simply my dream to have a moving launcher on the sea that can be used as a mobile long-range deterrent against inland threat and 1 more time ITS COMPLETLY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE S400 , you sure that all Scud will be intercepted by Chinese SAM ? let me remind you that even the Patriot once failed , and even the mighty Iron dome cant stop all the rocket from Gaza Strip , and they are some of the finest system around , not some rip-off crap or monkey model export ( that is if Russia stupid enough to give China something good knowing that they will copy it and later will sell it on the market , competing with Russia product ) .
Second , in the history of mankind , if you have a brand new and good defensive system , you will install it in or around the capital first , from the time of MIM-23 Hawk , S-25 to this very day of S-400 , Patriot etc . If you dont defense you capitol well then what is the puurpose of guarding another place with it while the center of you country may fall under attack ?.
Third hah i say the millitary ties to VN and China are both important to Rusia and why ? China is a big partner to Russia but they also have a long history of frictions , 1962 Border Skirmish , training and supplying Russia and Russia allies enemy back from the Afganistan to this very day , copying russia tech illegally and use it to compete against Russia product , etc and you still think Russia consider them the better allies ? Russis is not as dump as you think , dont presume that everything you know are correct because that will be last thing to happen and Vietnam is important to Rusia because of ? Around this part of the world who Russia can trust to use as a refueling base for their tanker which is use to support long-range bomber ? ASEAN is full of China and American allies , of course Rusia can sell them weapon if they want but for this level of task who can be more trustworthy than VN ?
Fourth ho ho ho really ? Russia sell weapon to China and that automaticly make them less than a good friend to VN ? wow i guess America is nothing but a crappy partner as well in the eyes of Japan and Korea , surely both would say "WHY THE HELL THAT AMERICA SELLING SOME GOOD STUFF TO THAT GUY AND NOT US ? F***K AMERICA " VN have alot of "keyboard heroes" just like you , and of course i wonder is their brain work correctly as well ?
Fifth i live in most reallistic life that you can think of and that how my brain work too , just because you dont have the same opinion as mine doesnt mean im in a dream and you in the real world , in fact that may have been the otherway around
Sixth i never even want to talk to you after our last conversation , you tag me in with a mocking entence about 2 entirely different things ( My dream for the Scud on the sea and the S400) so i just reply in the way that you deserve it , dont like my way of talking ? then stop talking to me the way you just did above . And about personal insult wow i just wonder is your brain work correctly , not call you a dog cat mice dumpshit coward hypocrite etc , and then you just presume me to be a Ah Q ? what the hell is Ah Q ? you mean AQ chính truyện ? the main character in that story is more like you than like me because he always blabbering about what he know and picking up on people that dont want to see nonetheless talk to him

My friend, let me say again, lets calm down. We are brothers okay? Also please don't type a wall of text it's hard to read.

Okay now let me explain:

I just asked a simple question. Would a true friend or ally make deals with your enemy that would put you at a great disadvantage? Yes or No?

99% people will say "No, a true friend would not do that", 1% will be silly and say "Yes, he is still a true friend".

So I ask you, has Russia ever made deals that puts VietNam at a great disadvantage? Russia did in the past and continue to do so today (S-400). I used your scud dream as an example, even though your dream is not gonna come true anyway. But here's the example, you want to use scuds to attack China, but Russia has provided China with a large number of air defence systems that puts you at a disadvantage. I'm talking about Tor, S-300, BUK and the latest S-400. Not only can China directly use them, China can reverse engineer them and use the knowledge to develop their own system. So there, Russia has made deals that puts VietNam at a great disadvantage. And I haven't mentioned the other platforms like Su-27/30 which helped China develop the J-11, and then there frigates, subs, helicopters, etc.

The only replies you've given is non-related to my question, like:

- Soviets had frictions with China back in 1960s, etc.
- Russia needs VN to bomber refuel.
-America don't always sell their best weapons to its allies.
-etc.

But what does this all have to do with my question, "would a true friend or ally make deals with your enemy that would put you at a great disadvantage?" and the second question is, "have Russia made such deals?"

The answer to this second question is "Yes". And that's a fact, not just my opinion.

On the other hand, you keep talking about random things that does not relate to my questions, and keep denying and ignoring my question and it's factual answer. That is what Ah Q often do in his story and why I've put that label on you.

So I'll ask, for the last time, the very 2 simple questions:

1. Would a true friend or ally make deals with your enemy that would put you at a great disadvantage?

2. Has Russia ever made deals with VietNam's enemy (China) that would put VietNam at a great disadvantage?

These 2 questions are very simple and it should be a yes or no answers.

(P.S. I'm not bashing Russia. I think Russia has every right to make business deals with whoever she want and is justified in putting her interest first.)

 

[Nike]

Wow, seem like corruption in Indo-Malays r even far worse than in VN, that's why their armed forces dont have enogh ships to protect their nations

first those pics doesn't represent the strength of the Navy from Malaysia-Indo-Vietnam and China. That's the total component surveillance vessels from their respective Coast Guard units

Malaysian Navy right now invest heavily in Surface warfare vessels with their commitment for 6 Frigate Gowind Class and 6 missile corvette from Daewoo Shipyard. Aside from their current assets in which strong enough to me
2 Lekiu Class
6 Kedah Class OPV
4 Laksamana Class Corvette
2 Kasturi Class
6 Gowind Class Frigate (on progress)


Indonesia Navy battle strength is quite modest with
16 Parchim Class ASW corvette
6 Van Speijk Class Frigate
4 Sigma Class Corvette
3 Bung Tomo Class Light Frigate (ex Nahkoda Ragam class)
3 Fatahillah Class ASW corvette
2 Sigma Class Frigate (on progress in PT PAL shipyard)

Technically speaking , except Philipine (which has a weak navy and lack of maritime asssets) , Malay and Indo both got a good navy and airforce , probably they intend to invest more in the military than its civillian counterpart on the sea

Indonesia in this current terms will invest heavily for Air Force, the Navy will be neglected for a while. After all Air Superiority is a must to maintain and support the balance of strength for your Navy. Malaysia for a while will focusing themselves for Navy especially for surface combatant ships.

 

[Aqsuperman]

Meh im really really really fed up with you and your unbelievable ignorance and lacks of knowledge . So lets mark this the last time I reply to you , next time dont even tag me in any of your post because i cant handle that magnitude of blabbering

Now first lets see about "Would a true friend or ally make deals with your enemy that would put you at a great disadvantage ?" now lets see the great disadvantage here : Russia sell China plenty of weapons , nobody including me say otherwise but hey as youself speaking this is business , the same kind of business that USA have with Japan and South Korea , USA sell a lot of military equipments (very very high lvl stuff from Aegis system to LCS for attacking island , and lately F-35 , surely these types pose "great disadvantage" enough ? ) to both of these countries and i can assure you that they hate each other to the grave , both in history and islands conflict, yet a survey conduct by PewResearch Center in 2014 that see 66% of Japanese and 82% of South Korean consider USA a "good friend" ,guess i dont have to tell you about they goverment view about USA right , Other example including Egypt and Israel that buying tons of good stuff from America ? so why then ? why Japan and South Korea ,Israel and Egypt clearly know that USA selling high tech weapons and equipments to the other ones yet they still hold USA in high regard ? Because they are "silly" ? the answer to this question is "Depend" , no such thing as simply yes or no in international relationships , take Russia and China into view and you will see why that no way in hell those S-400 and all other equipments sold by Russia to China before can have a a more or less ability like the Russian ones , I provide Russia-China friction for you to see that why Russia do that , Russia is not dump to see his equipments reserved and later compete againts his equipments on the market , since the J-11 rip-off (Google it clearly and you will see how Russia always remember about this deal in later contract with China , from a license assemble to illegally copy ) And info about VN base is to show you about how important VN are to Russia in this region

About "Has Russia ever made deals with VietNam's enemy (China) that would put VietNam at a great disadvantage " well without Russian weapons , China has been a bigger country , possess bigger manpower bigger natural resources practically everything about China put us in a disadvantage , Of course they have more money than us so they can purchase more weapons , If it not Russia there will be other to sell China things he want . So what ? Business and Friendship can always co-exist , if you say otherwise please check back the war history of the world , you will see this type of relation is everywhere from the Nicaragua Civil war to the Iran-Iraq war , if you denie them then you are the person in the dream world

1 more things , all those "random things that does not relate to my questions, and keep denying and ignoring my question and it's factual answer" , those are for your previous post about me , re-read it clearly because really my patient for typing has reach it end , start with the capital part .

Hope we will never talk again

 

[William Hung]

Meh im really really really fed up with you and your unbelievable ignorance and lacks of knowledge . So lets mark this the last time I reply to you , next time dont even tag me in any of your post because i cant handle that magnitude of blabbering

Now first lets see about "Would a true friend or ally make deals with your enemy that would put you at a great disadvantage ?" now lets see the great disadvantage here : Russia sell China plenty of weapons , nobody including me say otherwise but hey as youself speaking this is business , the same kind of business that USA have with Japan and South Korea , USA sell a lot of military equipments (very very high lvl stuff from Aegis system to LCS for attacking island , and lately F-35 , surely these types pose "great disadvantage" enough ? ) to both of these countries and i can assure you that they hate each other to the grave , both in history and islands conflict, yet a survey conduct by PewResearch Center in 2014 that see 66% of Japanese and 82% of South Korean consider USA a "good friend" ,guess i dont have to tell you about they goverment view about USA right , Other example including Egypt and Israel that buying tons of good stuff from America ? so why then ? why Japan and South Korea ,Israel and Egypt clearly know that USA selling high tech weapons and equipments to the other ones yet they still hold USA in high regard ? Because they are "silly" ? the answer to this question is "Depend" , no such thing as simply yes or no in international relationships , take Russia and China into view and you will see why that no way in hell those S-400 and all other equipments sold by Russia to China before can have a a more or less ability like the Russian ones , I provide Russia-China friction for you to see that why Russia do that , Russia is not dump to see his equipments reserved and later compete againts his equipments on the market , since the J-11 rip-off (Google it clearly and you will see how Russia always remember about this deal in later contract with China , from a license assemble to illegally copy ) And info about VN base is to show you about how important VN are to Russia in this region

So your answer is "it depends", but you did not explain what it depends on. You mentioned that the weapons supplied to China is not as good as the ones in Russia's possession, but this is irrelevant. Whatever was given to China, is a threat to VN. You think all those Su-27/30/J-11/subs, etc. are not a big issue for VN?

About "Has Russia ever made deals with VietNam's enemy (China) that would put VietNam at a great disadvantage " well without Russian weapons , China has been a bigger country , possess bigger manpower bigger natural resources practically everything about China put us in a disadvantage , Of course they have more money than us so they can purchase more weapons , If it not Russia there will be other to sell China things he want . So what ? Business and Friendship can always co-exist , if you say otherwise please check back the war history of the world , you will see this type of relation is everywhere from the Nicaragua Civil war to the Iran-Iraq war , if you denie them then you are the person in the dream world

1 more things , all those "random things that does not relate to my questions, and keep denying and ignoring my question and it's factual answer" , those are for your previous post about me , re-read it clearly because really my patient for typing has reach it end , start with the capital part .

You are wrong, most western arms supplier, until this day, has a lethal arms embargo on China.

And even if China can somehow manage to get arms from another source, does that make it OK for Russia to arm China who can use those weapons against VN?

If I wanted to shoot you, is it OK for your friend to sell a gun to me? Are you going to say it is OK because I can just buy from someone else if your friend doesn't sell it to me? You are living in denial if you still think he is still your good friend!

Hope we will never talk again

No, talk to me bro.

 

[Viet]

@aq and @yoro, I have to laugh. you both behave like like boys

Navy High Command of Military Zone 3

On April 16, destroyers KIRISAME and ASAYUKI with 500 crew members onboard stop at Danang port for a 4 day visit. led by Colonel Sugimoto Masaharu, Commander of the JMSDF’s frigate fleet #12.

another nice pic: destroyer Kirisame (rear) at a joint US-JP exercise in the West Pacific

 

[Aepsilons]

@aq and @yoro, I have to laugh. you both behave like like boys

Navy High Command of Military Zone 3

nice ships from Japan: On April 16, destroyers KIRISAME and ASAYUKI with 500 crew members onboard stop at Danang port for a 4 day visit. led by Colonel Sugimoto Masaharu, Commander of the JMSDF’s frigate fleet #12.

another nice pic: destroyer Kirisame (rear) at a joint US-JP exercise in the West Pacific

Cool

 

[Viet]

relationship to the Philippines has improved a lot recently.

April 13: Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, Deputy Defense Minister and his Philippines counterpart Honorio S. Azcueta co-hosted the first Vietnam- Philippines defense policy dialogue in Hanoi. First result is launching a hotline for fishing activities.

Military Capabilities
USN conducts first CUES activity with Vietnamese navy ships

Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore - IHS Jane's Navy International
13 April 2015

The US Navy's USS Fort Worth (LCS 3) is seen here operating in Indonesian waters during the search for crashed AirAsia Flight QZ8501. Source: US Navy

The US Navy (USN) has conducted its first Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES) activity with vessels from the People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) Navy, a USN spokesperson told IHS Jane's on 13 April.

The exercise was held with the USN's Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer, USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62), the Freedom-class Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) USS Fort Worth (LCS 3), and a number of PAVN ships.

CUES is a naval code of conduct that was ratified unanimously by 25 Asia-Pacific countries at the 14th Western Pacific Naval Symposium (WPNS) in 2014.

The protocol consists of standardised phrases for naval vessels and aircraft to use in unexpected encounters at sea and aims to prevent tensions from escalating into conflict, especially in contested maritime territories.

"As CUES was only adopted last spring, this was the first time our ships had the opportunity to practise CUES together," said Lieutenant Lauryn Dempsey, a public affairs officer with the USN's Destroyer Squadron 7.

"During the shore-based exchanges last week, sailors from both navies conducted classroom training and discussion about CUES, and then practised it while underway together on [10 April]", she added, in reference to the sixth annual naval engagement (NEA) activity between the USN and PAVN personnel.

The NEA ran from 6-10 April and focused on non-combatant events and skills exchanges in military medicine, search and rescue, and maritime security.

 

[liubang]

Will Vietnam get even more submarines in the near future? Is 6 enough? What would be an adequate amount for vietnam? How far in the future do you guys think we would be capable of having an aircraft carrier like Thailand.

 

[luoyue]

Will Vietnam get even more submarines in the near future? Is 6 enough? What would be an adequate amount for vietnam? How far in the future do you guys think we would be capable of having an aircraft carrier like Thailand.

In short term, I don't think we need purchase the carrier like Thailand. we have focus on submarines and frigates first.

 

[Carlosa]

Will Vietnam get even more submarines in the near future? Is 6 enough? What would be an adequate amount for vietnam? How far in the future do you guys think we would be capable of having an aircraft carrier like Thailand.

I'm pretty sure there will be more subs coming because Vietnam is negotiating with the Italian company that makes the S1000 sub. Vietnam has also expressed an interest on the Amur subs of Russia.

I would say that Vietnam needs not less than 18 subs.

Why would Vietnam need an small carrier like the one from Thailand which can only operate the F-35 which I don't think the US will ever sell to Vietnam? And anyway, what's the purpose for such a carrier and how is it going to manage to survive in case of war? As an ASW carrier with helicopters, it is actually overkill, no need for that. A carrier like that is very expensive to operate, as Thailand found out the hard way.

 

[Aqsuperman]

a couple more Akula attack subs wont hurt

 

[Nike]

VPAF just lost two of their Su-22M4 because of crash in South China Sea

the cause is bad weather. The pilots can bail out, but still missing due to bad weather impending the search and rescue effort

Wish the best for the Pilots

 

[Carlosa]

VPAF just lost two of their Su-22M4 because of crash in South China Sea

the cause is bad weather. The pilots can bail out, but still missing due to bad weather impending the search and rescue effort

Wish the best for the Pilots

Vietnam's military aircraft crash into the sea after head-on collision, 2 pilots missing
By Thanh Nien Staff, Thanh Nien News

A file photo of a Su-22M4. Photo: Tan Tu

Two military aircraft allegedly collided with each other during an aerobatic training session off the coast of the central province of Binh Thuan on Thursday, with the fate of the two pilots still unknown.
The Russian-made fighter aircraft Su-22M4 were believed to crash into the East Sea about six nautical miles from Phu Quy Island.
Air controllers lost contact with the pilots at around 10:40 a.m.
So far rescuers have found three oil barrels and pieces of a parachute. Traces of oil were also spotted near the accident site.

The two pilots reportedly parachuted into the sea, according to media reports.
Initial information is that the 1976-produced aircraft were part of a team tasked with protecting the Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands.
The search and rescue mission is going on.

On March 26, a military helicopter, also produced during Soviet ear, crashed when it was about to land on Phu Quy Island, but all men all board survived.
Two previous crashes involved a Russian Mi-171 and a US-built UH-1, and killed 24 military personnel in total.

a couple more Akula attack subs wont hurt

They would certainly not hurt at all. India is leasing one and they are now going to lease a second one.

An upgraded Akula is one of the best subs around, without any doubt.