Vietnam Defence Forum

[ChineseTiger1986]

Only a real life war environment will show what China can really intercept, tests are not the same.
Ballistic missiles are not easy to intercept, most tests of interceptions are done under not realistic conditions that favor the interception and makes the intercepting system look good, but in real life conditions its estimated that the Aegis / Patriot system can only have a 20% success rate. The Russians are adamant that the Iskander can't be intercepted. Time will reveal more.



I'm very clear about the ecosystem, that's what I keep talking about here.

Without the ecosystem, you will find a hard time to survive the first round of electromagnetic/systematic confrontation.

China will not let you having the chance to shoot first.

 

[Viet]

I like it. once the arms ban is lifted, some Chinese "experts" assume Vietnam intends to acquire AH-64, Wasp class warship and A-10 to increase offensive capability. Yeah baby!

DEFENSE STUDIES: Chinese Experts: Vietnam Can Buy Amphibious Assault Ship, A-10 and Apache from US

AH-64 attack helicopter

Wasp class amphibious assault ship

A-10 attack aircraft

 

[Carlosa]

Without the ecosystem, you will find a hard time to survive the first round of electromagnetic/systematic confrontation.

China will not let you having the chance to shoot first.

I think you forget the political implications of China shooting first, Its not in the interest of China to get others involved, China is already pushing the limits, there are many indications that USA will not be passive next time around.

I like it. some Chinese "experts" assume Vietnam intends to acquire AH-64, Wasp class warship and A-10 to increase offensive capability.

DEFENSE STUDIES: Chinese Experts: Vietnam Can Buy Amphibious Assault Ship, A-10 and Apache from US

AH-64 attack helicopter

Wasp class amphibious assault ship

A-10 attack aircraft

I had read that article before, totally nonsense, those are not the weapons that VN needs.
How is that WASP going to survive once it leaves port? Do you realize how expensive it is to operate that ship and how much it would cost to fit the ship with all the planes and helicopters? Not feasible.
The A-10 is for ground support, nothing to do with naval attack.
The last thing that VN needs are Apaches, for what anyway? The Russian MI-28 is a better fit anyway.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China did 2 test of intercepting an ICBM, the first one was successful, but the second one (just a week ago or so) was not.

Again, you are completely wrong here.

The two tests you mentioned here were the HGV (the second test did not fail, that HK media simply pulled thing out of their a$$), not the midcourse interception.

China had three midcourse interception tests being disclosed, and they were all successful.

I think you forget the political implications of China shooting first, Its not in the interest of China to get others involved, China is already pushing the limits, there are many indications that USA will not be passive next time around.

The US will not fight China just for the behalf of Vietnam. How many times I have to explain that to you guys?

Did USSR fight for Vietnam in 1979? That China was far weaker than today's China, even then no one was willing come to rescue Vietnam.

Vietnam is still a communist country, there is no treaty between her and the US, then stop pretending that the US is already your ally.

 

[Carlosa]

Again, you are completely wrong here.

The two tests you mentioned here were the HGV (the second test did not fail, that HK media simply pulled thing out of their a$$), not the midcourse interception.

China had three midcourse interception tests being disclosed, and they were all successful.

Well, maybe you are right, but my point anyway is that testing is not the same as real life war conditions and I give a lot of credibility to what Russia claims about the Iskanders. I guess it will take a real war to find out how those things really perform.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Well, maybe you are right, but my point anyway is that testing is not the same as real life war conditions and I give a lot of credibility to what Russia claims about the Iskanders. I guess it will take a real war to find out how those things really perform.

Iskander is not Topol M, so don't think that Russia will sell the invulnerable artifact to you.

 

[Carlosa]

Again, you are completely wrong here.

The two tests you mentioned here were the HGV (the second test did not fail, that HK media simply pulled thing out of their a$$), not the midcourse interception.

China had three midcourse interception tests being disclosed, and they were all successful.



The US will not fight China just for the behalf of Vietnam. How many times I have to explain that to you guys?

Did USSR fight for Vietnam in 1979? That China was far weaker than today's China, even then no one was willing come to rescue Vietnam.

Vietnam is still a communist country, there is no treaty between her and the US, then stop pretending that the US is already your ally.

USA will fight for their interest, not for Vietnam and is not in the interest of USA to continue to stay passive and let China takeover the south china sea, but time will reveal more.

Iskander is not Topol M, so don't think that Russia will sell the invulnerable artifact to you.

Those things we don't know, claims are just cheap talk, you assume too many things and you can probably say the same to me. There is a point beyond which, we just can't say for sure.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

USA will fight for their interest, not for Vietnam and is not in the interest of USA to continue to stay passive and let China takeover the south china sea, but time will reveal more.

But the reward of fighting China just for Vietnam is simply too insignificant.

Did the US fight Russia for Ukraine?

The US indeed treats China as the number one enemy, but fighting China just for Vietnam is not their interest.

 

[Viet]

I had read that article before, totally nonsense, those are not the weapons that VN needs.
How is that WASP going to survive once it leaves port?
The A-10 is for ground support, nothing to do with naval attack.
The last thing that VN needs are Apaches, for what anyway? The Russian MI-28 is a better fit anyway.

okay...I see you are a very difficult customer. not much easy to sell toys to you
how about this one: indigenous development: UAV 02? I don´t know if this is a re-posting.

specs:

- developed by Institute of Technical Engineers Military PK-KQ
- 38kg, two jet engines, wingspan 2.8 m, length 2.5 m, cruise speed of 250- 350 kmh, operating radius 100 km, maximum altitude 8,000 m, flytime 45 minutes, auto-fly-land control system
- UAV can be guided by the control system of Su-30MK2 aircraft

Imagine, in a combat situation, a SU-30 is accompanied by 5 UAV.

 

[Carlosa]

But the reward of fighting China just for Vietnam is simply too insignificant.

Did the US fight Russia for Ukraine?

The US indeed treats China as the number one enemy, but fighting China just for Vietnam is not their interest.

You didn't get what I said, USA WILL NOT FIGHT FOR VIETNAM. USA will fight for its own reasons and purely because it fits the needs of USA, not Vietnam. I have a long standing position here that USA will not help Vietnam for the sake of Vietnam. The thing is, if China keeps pushing the limits, USA will have to intervene, again, because of its own interests.

okay...I see you are a very difficult customer. not much easy to sell toys to you
how about this one: indigenous development: UAV 02? I don´t know if this is a re-posting.

specs:

- developed by Institute of Technical Engineers Military PK-KQ
- 38kg, two jet engines, wingspan 2.8 m, length 2.5 m, cruise speed of 250- 350 kmh, operating radius 100 km, maximum altitude 8,000 m, flytime 45 minutes, auto-fly control system
- UAV can be guided by the control system of Su-30MK2 aircraft

No problem with that one, it cost $200.000 a piece and it gets used for target practice by air defense crews.

Ha ha, show me the cash and then I'll buy.

okay...I see you are a very difficult customer. not much easy to sell toys to you
how about this one: indigenous development: UAV 02? I don´t know if this is a re-posting.

Viet bro, the money needs to go into more subs, planes, missiles, air defense and all the elements of the defensive ecosystem (satellites, drones, AWACS, marine patrol planes, etc). Anything else is a waste of resources (of course need to give some money to slowly update the ground army equipment, but that's still secondary). Need to also keep building up the surface ships, etc, but not getting big ticket items, again, those areas are needed, but they are of secondary importance, have to keep the eye on the ball and keep the priorities straight, the money is very limited.

 

[NiceGuy]

But the reward of fighting China just for Vietnam is simply too insignificant.

Did the US fight Russia for Ukraine?

The US indeed treats China as the number one enemy, but fighting China just for Vietnam is not their interest.

Open a full investigation for the death of 11 Chinese in Gaven reef in 1990 first, talk abt war with VN later

Who killed 11 Chinese troops in Gaven Reefs in 1990 ?

 

[Viet]

But the reward of fighting China just for Vietnam is simply too insignificant.

Did the US fight Russia for Ukraine?

The US indeed treats China as the number one enemy, but fighting China just for Vietnam is not their interest.

VN is too insignificant?

dude, the last thing the US wants is China controls the South China Sea. $5 trillion of trade is at stake, not to mention the national security of Japan, Korea, Philippines and Taiwan is at risk and at mercy of China.

but you are free to think what you like. the last thing we care of is your opinion.

 

[Nike]

to confront China claims in LCS, what Vietnam needed the most is to rehearsal their tactics and scenario about their previous engagement, in which i conclude a better presence capability at sea is a must. Regarding their scarcely funds and resources, Vietnam must be better to allocate, manage and given priorities about what they need. That's why, Vietnam government giving an extra cash budget for their Navy and Maritime enforcement agencies to build more coastal patrol vessel, offshore patrol vessels, and more Corvette and small frigate to accompany them in case they meet the worst scenario. All of this game in LCS is about tit-for tat and catching the mouse, you just need to enforce your presence in and around your claim, intensifies your patrol, and doing some ramming games when they challenge your claims and all of that can't be done with an overtly costly single or two warship but you need more (a lot of in this case) cheaper but sturdy vessels to do that. And if Vietnam has more budget to be allocated, it will be more wiser to enhance their detection, surveillance and electronic warfare capability, it will be more useful when you meet the enemy as powerful as China.

 

[Carlosa]

to confront China claims in LCS, what Vietnam needed the most is to rehearsal their tactics and scenario about their previous engagement, in which i conclude a better presence capability at sea is a must. Regarding their scarcely funds and resources, Vietnam must be better to allocate, manage and given priorities about what they need. That's why, Vietnam government giving an extra cash budget for their Navy and Maritime enforcement agencies to build more coastal patrol vessel, offshore patrol vessels, and more Corvette and small frigate to accompany them in case they meet the worst scenario. All of this game in LCS is about tit-for tat and catching the mouse, you just need to enforce your presence in and around your claim, intensifies your patrol, and doing some ramming games when they challenge your claims and all of that can't be done with an overtly costly single or two warship but you need more (a lot of in this case) cheaper but sturdy vessels to do that. And if Vietnam has more budget to be allocated, it will be more wiser to enhance their detection, surveillance and electronic warfare capability, it will be more useful when you meet the enemy as powerful as China.

Very correct and I would add: to file a claim with the UNCLOS court, but I have a feeling the VN government wont do that.

 

[Viet]

Viet bro, the money needs to go into more subs, planes, missiles, air defense and all the elements of the defensive ecosystem (satellites, drones, AWACS, marine patrol planes, etc). Anything else is a waste of resources (of course need to give some money to slowly update the ground army equipment, but that's still secondary). Need to also keep building up the surface ships, etc, but not getting big ticket items, again, those areas are needed, but they are of secondary importance, have to keep the eye on the ball and keep the priorities straight, the money is very limited.

I agree we must prioritize. first and foremost, more subs are necessary so we can better play cat and mouse with the chinese.

here is a interesting article quoting the accessment of Vasily Kashin of Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, a think tank: Vietnam 6 Kilo are superior than 12 Kilo of China. Besides, our purchase of Kilo-class submarines could have serious political consequences for its relationship with China and other Southeast Asian states, whatever it means.

Vietnam's new Kilo-class submarines to affect China ties｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com

to confront China claims in LCS, what Vietnam needed the most is to rehearsal their tactics and scenario about their previous engagement, in which i conclude a better presence capability at sea is a must. Regarding their scarcely funds and resources, Vietnam must be better to allocate, manage and given priorities about what they need. That's why, Vietnam government giving an extra cash budget for their Navy and Maritime enforcement agencies to build more coastal patrol vessel, offshore patrol vessels, and more Corvette and small frigate to accompany them in case they meet the worst scenario.

All of this game in LCS is about tit-for tat and catching the mouse, you just need to enforce your presence in and around your claim, intensifies your patrol, and doing some ramming games when they challenge your claims and all of that can't be done with an overtly costly single or two warship but you need more (a lot of in this case) cheaper but sturdy vessels to do that. And if Vietnam has more budget to be allocated, it will be more wiser to enhance their detection, surveillance and electronic warfare capability, it will be more useful when you meet the enemy as powerful as China.

yes, you are right. and the most important thing is, due to imbalance of power at sea, we have no choice but return to the classical tactics: ambush, hit and run so basically transfering the guerilla warfare from the jungle to the south china sea.

we were not too bad in the past: we had been very successful in defeating the naval forces of the Han, Mongol, Champa and Siam, some success against the French and America superior naval forces. We are master of guerilla warfare, so there is no reason why we don´t return to the old classical ways.

as for the Coast Guard (good for ramming), we have doubled the fleet to 68 vessels over the past five years, and will add another 32 in the next few years. Plus Japan agreed to donate six and maybe more in the future. America and India have pledged to provide us with vessels, too. So you will see the gap more and more closing to China in terms of the strength of Coast Guard.

Amid China spat, Vietnam to build 32 patrol ships - Yahoo News