Video accuses Kayani of treachery; 20 detained

[Icarus]

against people or HuT member? if former I humbly submit as servant of God's pick. If later, yeah kick on who cares.

Against HuT cells.

 

[53fd]

It is ironic that the so-called freedom & justice lovers who claim to be patriots supporting the 'democratic' institutions (against the 'evil Army') are the same people sympathetic to the militant, anti-state elements of Pakistan.

 

[Awesome]

Question I am asking is not to validate whether or not HuT is a dangerous organization, of course it is and its drivel against Pakistan is well known, but off late whoever opposes the military ends up being slapped as a HuT member, then hes arrested and hidden away without a way for him to clarify whether or not he really is HuT or not.

What does this mean?

I am questioning if the military is lying about all these arrests like it has been found lying about Drones, CIA operatives being in Pakistan, about being involved in at least some of the missing persons cases - is it lying about charging everyone that opposes the military as an HuT member?

It is ironic that the so-called freedom & justice lovers who claim to be patriots supporting the 'democratic' institutions (against the 'evil Army') are the same people sympathetic to the militant, anti-state elements of Pakistan.

So said the 'Prophet' Kayani?

 

[Jango]

Why could it not have been IB operatives catching them ?

 

[A1Kaid]

What is so bad about HuT? They are a professional political party with clear goals and policy. They do not engage in illegality. They are widely popular in various parts of the world. Many of the senior political body are highly intelligent and educated professionals and far more competent and eloquent and overall decent than majority of Pakistani politicians.

HuT has been demonized they are a pretty clean party and legitimate party with mass following and appeal.


As for the video, I haven't watched all of it, but what exactly have they said is wrong about the Palistani Government and military leadership? What have they said that Senior Members on this forum including I haven't been saying for years?

 

[Awesome]

What is so bad about HuT? They are a professional political party with clear goals and policy. They do not engage in illegality. They ate widely popular in various parts of the world. Many of the senior political body are highly intelligent and educated professionals and far more competent and eloquent and overall decent than majority of Pakistani politicians.

HuT has been demonized they are a pretty clean party and legitimate party with mass following and appeal.

They are against democracy, hence against the constitution, hence against Pakistan.

 

[A1Kaid]

PS Also nice to hear eloquent and clearly spoken Urdu by HuT narrator in the documentary.

 

[A1Kaid]

They are against democracy, hence against the constitution, hence against Pakistan.

Pakistan's constitution has been violated and opposed more times by any other political party and Government body in Pakistan than HuT ever could do. PPP, PML, MQM, ANP have violated Pakistan's constitution countless times. No one suggests these parties be banned. Including the military that suspended the constitution several times.

As for being against democracy, they do support representation model of Government (as far as I know) but not exactly the western Parliamentary system.

Also HuT is not against Pakistan, being against democracy is not equal to being against Pakistan, and demanding changes in the Pakistani constitution is not being against Pakistan. If anything HuT wants to strengthen the Pakistani people and praises its military.

 

[53fd]

So said the 'Prophet' Kayani?

No, there is objective evidence for everyone to see:

Sectarian killers thrive under legal system | Blog | DAWN.COM

In Pakistan, democracy means feudalism, assassinations, target killings, ethnic conflicts, sectarian conflicts, bribing, extortion, forming private gangs, hired guns etc. All summed in one word: anarchy. Pakistan is quite simply, not ready for a real democracy, & would only bring "this" kind of "democracy" into power. For a real democracy, the people of the nation need to be educated & make educated decisions. Militants (foreign funded or otherwise) who take up arms against the state, kill innocent people & pose a threat to national security should not fall under the realm of "human rights".

An interesting fact of the matter is how political parties have used these "popular slogans" to gain the support of the masses, while these "popular slogans" have little reality attached to them.

Pakistan's constitution has been violated and opposed more times by any other political party and Government body in Pakistan than HuT ever could do. PPP, PML, MQM, ANP have violated Pakistan's constitution countless times. No one suggests these parties be banned. Including the military that suspended the constitution several times.

As for being against democracy, they do support representation model of Government (as far as I know) but not exactly the western Parliamentary system.

Also HuT is not against Pakistan, being against democracy is not equal to being against Pakistan, and demanding changes in the Pakistani constitution is not being against Pakistan. If anything HuT wants to strengthen the Pakistani people and praises its military.

HuT is a pan-Islamist organization, whose aim is to "restore the (Takfiri) Caliphate". The ultimate recipe for disaster. If anyone does not how these pan-Islamist organizations form splits & divides in societies, threaten the balance of society & the people residing in them, they need to read up on the HuT more.

 

[A1Kaid]

Explain to us since you know so much, how would Pakistan expanding its power and it's borders in unity with other Muslim lands (as HuT intends) bring the ultimate recipe for disaster? How does HuT divide and split society? You don't think politics in general doesn that? You don't think the political parties in Pakistan do that already? Be honest, it's the idea of a caliphate you don't like. That's what scares you and it scares the enemies of Pakistan even more.


I think you actually should read up on HuT, what exactly have you read about HuT you think is bad for Pakistan? What are your sources? HuT offers an independent vision and independent foreign policy.

 

[53fd]

Explain to us since you know so much, how would Pakistan expanding its power and it's borders in unity with other Muslim lands (as HuT intends) bring the ultimate recipe for disaster? How does HuT divide and split society? You don't think politics in general doesn that? You don't think the political parties in Pakistan do that already? Be honest, it's the idea of a caliphate you don't like. That's what scares you and it scares the enemies of Pakistan even more.

If Islamic history is anything to go by, Caliphates have always been Takfiri. Islamic history after Prophet(S)'s life has been violent & Takfiri, with "Munafiq" tyrants dominating the proceedings. The Arab Spring/Arab Islamic nationalism has been a recipe for disaster, destroying the country & the balance/stability of society it has a presence in; acting as a proxy serving the geopolitical, strategic interests of the foreign powers/imperialists; & HuT is no different.

 

[A1Kaid]

Also I finished watching the documentary and the documentary is spot on correct in nearly everything it said, what the documentary states can be verified with historical records, reports, articles, stats, video, and current events. Interestingly enough, many points of view in the documentary are commonly expressed by Pakistani Senior Members on this forum in the past few years.

Documentary is factually accurate.

If Islamic history is anything to go by, Caliphates have always been Takfiri. The Arab Spring/Arab Islamic nationalism has been a recipe for disaster, destroying the country & the balance/stability of society it has a presence in; acting as a proxy serving the geopolitical, strategic interests of the foreign powers/imperialists; & HuT is no different.

Well do you think it's the nature of the caliphate they become prone to foreign influence more than other models of Government? Or do you think there are other factors that cause that to happen and these factors can be reinforced to prevent foreign influence? Don't you think nations can as well be subjected to foreign influence? If so isn't the risk the same?


You keep saying "recipe for disaster" what specifically about HuT's policy and charter spells out "recipe for disaster"? Or are you too ignorant about the party to point that out at this time? From what I have read their ways are very methodical and structural, unlike other parties in Pakistan that are corrupt shamble parties.

 

[53fd]

Also I finished watching the documentary and the documentary is spot on correct in nearly everything it said, what the documentary states can be verified with historical records, reports, articles, stats, video, and current events. Interestingly enough, many points of view in the documentary are commonly expressed by Pakistani Senior Members on this forum in the past few years.

Documentary is factually accurate.




Well do you think it's the nature of the caliphate they become prone to foreign influence more than other models of Government? Or do you think there are other factors that cause that to happen and these factors can be reinforced to prevent foreign influence? Don't you think nations can as well be subjected to foreign influence? If so isn't the risk the same?


You keep saying "recipe for disaster" what specifically about HuT's policy and charter spells out "recipe for disaster"? Or are you too ignorant about the party to point that out at this time? From what I have read their ways are very methodical and structural, unlike other parties in Pakistan that are corrupt shamble parties.

The simple question: has there been a Muslim Ummah after the Prophet(S)'s life that has been peaceful, that has united all the Muslims together? Islamic history post Prophet(S) has been riddled with violence & Takfirism, with Munafiqs dominating the scenes. Muslims have been fighting & killing each other all throughout history. How do you know that the Caliph is not Takfiri, & does not declare everyone that does not follow his sect Mushriks/Kafirs? After all, this is all what "Islamic" nations with "Islamic" systems do. How can the HuT caliphate bring something that has never existed in Muslim history?

Look at the violence from the Arab Spring, strengthening militants & destroying countries, all in the name of an "Islamic Revolution". HuT is no different.

 

[Awesome]

Explain to us since you know so much, how would Pakistan expanding its power and it's borders in unity with other Muslim lands (as HuT intends) bring the ultimate recipe for disaster? How does HuT divide and split society? You don't think politics in general doesn that? You don't think the political parties in Pakistan do that already? Be honest, it's the idea of a caliphate you don't like. That's what scares you and it scares the enemies of Pakistan even more.


I think you actually should read up on HuT, what exactly have you read about HuT you think is bad for Pakistan? What are your sources? HuT offers an independent vision and independent foreign policy.

Everyone should have the right to choose and live freely. Which means break moral behavioral tenets of Islam if they so wish. HuT preachers that such people are apostates and apostates are eligible to be killed so you do the math, they will get people killed.

Hence in arresting such people, the state would be justified.

 

[A1Kaid]

Strong Governance, Strong Economy, Unity and Commonality, Justice, Dignity, Rights, Science, Methodology, and more. That's how you do it. The United States has managed to unite fifty states into one unified nation.

Also there have been successful Muslim empires and caliphates, one of the greatest ones was the Osmanli khilafah which ended after 624 years in the 20th century 1923 ce. If there is mass support for it from the people then you cannot deny it. At the very least HuT should not be banned, if anything the establishment are aware HuT would rapidly become popular an threaten the status quo corrupt power groups that enjoy powerful seats in Pakistan.