USS Reagan, OEF and Pakistan

[fatman17]

I came across this news item courtesey French AF on the French Navy carrier Charles d'Gaulle (Feb-2006)

..... as we cruise toward our operating stations for OEF (Operation Enduring Freedom) flights, the squadron trains with the Pakistan AF, which attacks the task force with Exocet-armed Mirage 5PAs and defends its country with Mirage III and 5s. it is interesting to see some ex-French AF aircraft again, though they have been brought up-to-date considerably with Electronic Counter-Measures (ECM) suite, radar and Hands on Throttle and Stick (HOTAS). their professionalism is never at fault and DCAT between the SEM and the Mirages is quite even, provided they dont use their afterburner.....

 

[F.O.X]

our defenders have never let us down, we are the ones who let them down. Unfortunately!


Regards
Wilco

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

For that very reason, many a times I have written that the decision to cancel the mirage 2000 purchase by pakistani politicians was the worst thing that the politicians could do to the PAF. It will take another 3 to 5 years from now onwards for the PAF to be where it should have been in 1995.

Or in simple layman's term----PAF's ability in 1995 would have been far superior to that of PAF in year 2012 had the purchase been made.

 

[rana]

Hi,

For that very reason, many a times I have written that the decision to cancel the mirage 2000 purchase by pakistani politicians was the worst thing that the politicians could do to the PAF. It will take another 3 to 5 years from now onwards for the PAF to be where it should have been in 1995.

Or in simple layman's term----PAF's ability in 1995 would have been far superior to that of PAF in year 2012 had the purchase been made.

PAF will have many JF-17 till 2012. JF-17 can overcome the problem?

 

[ahf_nuke1]

I doubt that, with many countries now going to purchase and equip their air forces with the fighters of generation 4 or 4.5, we are still stuck with 3 or 3.5. I think we should start more research and development with China and go for more advanced jets than F-16-Blk52. We should at least have some 4.5 generation fighters in our inventory by 2015 (insha allah).

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Rana,

Give me some technical reasons for what you are saying please----. Thank you.

 

[IceCold]

JF-17 will replace all the mirages 3 and 5 by i believe 2015. If not all then most of them. JF's also tends to replace the A-5 so it may take some time. JF we know is a capable fighter and with western avonics that we are currently looking at for instance the french, it will boost the performance of the jet by miles as compared to mirages. Mirage2000-5 was a capable fighter but was very expensive to obtain then, not to mention we were under sactions then and governments were more focused on the missile shield then the conventional capabilities of the armed forces. Anyhow since that is all gone so why to cry over split milk, PAF future seems ok to me. I personaly believe we have a high end 4th generation F-16 and a low end 4th generation JF's, we should now concentrate on a 4.5th or 5th generation jet. Since 5th are not available, it would be better if we go for the EF or Rafale instead of going for the J-10.

 

[su-47]

Since 5th are not available, it would be better if we go for the EF or Rafale instead of going for the J-10.

It would be better for PAF to go for EF or Rafale, but the problem is that those planes are damn expensive. And there's no point buying only a handful of these fighters. So in order for PAF to buy them in considerable numbers, PAF will have to reduce the number of JF-17s ordered and may even have to cut down the number of F-16 blk 52s.

 

[Keysersoze]

It would be better for PAF to go for EF or Rafale, but the problem is that those planes are damn expensive. And there's no point buying only a handful of these fighters. So in order for PAF to buy them in considerable numbers, PAF will have to reduce the number of JF-17s ordered and may even have to cut down the number of F-16 blk 52s.

Despite the views of internet pundits like us I doubt anything is written in stone. Since there was going to be a much larger purchase of F-16's I am sure the funds exist for a alternative if that is what is required. And in sufficient numbers as well. The number of JF-17's has been only confirmed for 150. But some people have decided that the PAF is going to get 300.

 

[IceCold]

It would be better for PAF to go for EF or Rafale, but the problem is that those planes are damn expensive. And there's no point buying only a handful of these fighters. So in order for PAF to buy them in considerable numbers, PAF will have to reduce the number of JF-17s ordered and may even have to cut down the number of F-16 blk 52s.

PAF for the start was just looking for 36 J-10s means two squardons of it. If we drop the plain for J-10, perhaps we would have that money. But i agree like you mentioned EF and Rafale are expensive jets and surely they will not come under any easy payment scheme unlike the J-10s or for that matter the F-16s. The total number of JF's would not be decreased but rather increased in the future because it tends to replace all the aging fighters of the PAF. And the purpose of EF or Rafale is not to replace any fighter but to provide additional punch to the PAF. The number of F-16s have already being reduced, i dont think it we be dereased any futhure.

 

[su-47]

PAF for the start was just looking for 36 J-10s means two squardons of it. If we drop the plain for J-10, perhaps we would have that money. But i agree like you mentioned EF and Rafale are expensive jets and surely they will not come under any easy payment scheme unlike the J-10s or for that matter the F-16s. The total number of JF's would not be decreased but rather increased in the future because it tends to replace all the aging fighters of the PAF. And the purpose of EF or Rafale is not to replace any fighter but to provide additional punch to the PAF. The number of F-16s have already being reduced, i dont think it we be dereased any futhure.

But dont you think it'll be worth it to reduce JF-17 numbers if that means that more Rafales/EF can be inducted? PAF will become smaller in terms of combat aircraft, but will become more lethal.

 

[ejaz007]

I don’t think reducing the number of JF-17’s is good idea. PAF plans to increase the number of aircrafts it is going to buy from 150 to 200. This way unit cost of the plane shall decrease making it more attractive for third world air forces. The revenue generated from sales of this fighter can be utilized for further R&D and also earn foreign exchange for the country. Also by replacing all the aging mirages PAF would also be saving in operations and maintenance cost.

Another point worth mentioning is that with the passage of time JF-17’s shall be further improved so in the long term it is the best line of action PAF should take.

 

[fatman17]

i tend to agree with Keys - nothing is written in stone, but the EF and Rafale is at the moment not on the PAF radars.
PAF is concentrating on getting the JF-17s on line along with the upgrade (MLU) and delivery of F-16s (Blk52)

 

[IceCold]

But dont you think it'll be worth it to reduce JF-17 numbers if that means that more Rafales/EF can be inducted? PAF will become smaller in terms of combat aircraft, but will become more lethal.

PAF will never go below the ratio of 1:3. I think though not sure the ratio is higher in india's favour. EF or Rafale if ever we obtain will be to increase the offensive punch of the PAF not to be the backbone. personaly i feel PAF should not go for J-10, the reason is there is no point of aquiring all 4th generation planes and that too inferior to the block 50 PAF is getting. We have JF's, we have F-16s, now we should concentrate on a modern jet. That may be EF or Rafale or perhaps a joint venture between China and Pakistan.

 

[blain2]

Thanks for posting the tidbit. Seems to be the first DACT between PAF Mirages and French Super Etendards. Seems like ROSE upgrades are considered to be fairly current and good.