Used F16's - EDA 50 ~ 100 Available

[Khafee]

I wouldn't say they are abundantly flush in cash, but there's money available at the moment, it's mainly an issue of priorities. If they've paid off most or all of their prior payments (i.e. Erieye and F-16C/D) and see a drawing down in COIN ops in FATA (resulting in peace dividends from freed ops money), they might be reaching the decent early-to-mid 2000s phase. Looks like the part-2 of your epic is about to begin ... $3bn on Typhoon T3s ... or ... $3bn on 18 F-16V *with an option or 18 more*

$166m a pop? Are you sure?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

$166m a pop? Are you sure?

Man did you hear about the Bahrain deal? It's $2.7bn for 19 planes! Besides inflation, I expect LM is also tagging the cost of re-warming cold supply channels for production.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...human-rights-shouldn-t-hold-up-u-s-arms-sales

 

[Khafee]

Man did you hear about the Bahrain deal? It's $2.7bn for 19 planes!

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...human-rights-shouldn-t-hold-up-u-s-arms-sales

I think it includes training and spares. I have yet to see the DSCA notification, if you have it let me know.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think it includes training and spares. I have yet to see the DSCA notification, if you have it let me know.

Yes but the Block-52+ costs $83m with the support package, so I am surprised LM would spike the price by $60m (!) for just the AN/APG-83. I suspect the Bahrain deal also includes munitions, which might mean the cost of the 19 jets could - or should - be $2 to 2.1 billion (i.e. $100-119m a plane). We'll need to wait for the DSCA notices to confirm.

 

[Khafee]

Yes but the Block-52+ costs $83m with the support package, so I am surprised LM would spike the price by $60m (!) for just the AN/APG-83. I suspect the Bahrain deal also includes munitions, which might mean the cost of the 19 jets could - or should - be $2 to 2.1 billion (i.e. $100-119m a plane). We'll need to wait for the DSCA notices to confirm.

You are right, even 142m a pop is not realistic, has to include ammo as well.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Just go with J10B folks comes loaded with all goods !!! no MLU needed
This is what we could have already inducted in our airforce

All Modern , Top of Line tech no MLU needed

We need to stop chasing Shadows and get tangible Fighter Jets to finish modernization efforts

0 KM birds​

Has the weapons / EW capabilities and latest items

• Typhoon
• J10B

Are both tangible platforms

 

[Khafee]

Yes but the Block-52+ costs $83m with the support package, so I am surprised LM would spike the price by $60m (!) for just the AN/APG-83. I suspect the Bahrain deal also includes munitions, which might mean the cost of the 19 jets could - or should - be $2 to 2.1 billion (i.e. $100-119m a plane). We'll need to wait for the DSCA notices to confirm.

The APG-83 cost approx $2.13m in 2014, for the Taiwanese.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...9/taiwan-f-16-radar-lockheed-martin/20632973/

 

[ghazi768]

This is likely the case. I can't see them shuttering the JF-17 line anytime in the foreseeable future, so it's likely the Pakistani NGF will come in to basically replace the JF-17 way down the line. But the 5th-gen fighters on the table today are likely being sought to replace the F-16A/Bs. In regards to the off-the-shelf 5th-gen fighter, he said "talks with 2-3 countries" ... in any case, I think we'll find out more in a follow-up interview from Alan Warnes et. al.

In terms of new off-the-shelf fighters, why limit to 5th-gen designs? That's a very small pool of available jets. I wonder if what was meant was late 4.5-gen fighters such as the Typhoon Tranche 3, F-16 Block-70, Gripen NG, etc.

I do not think it is to replace F-16 A/Bs, at-least not when it will be inducted.

Now about why to limit to 5th-gen, you can differ with PAF opinion, but they would have looked at all options, compared 5th gen with so called 4.5 gen, their current schedule for block 3 and its comparison to 4.5 gen. AND also have looked at how they can go with four files in arms for funds, including a B, a block 3, than a 5th gen, and than also funding for a NGF project. And than after agreement from other side (saying light heartedly) suddenly slipped out of another side a funding request for a 4.5 gen, and while the other side would have looked incredulously at them, explained that guys on PDF are very worried about '2-3 years' gap so we must spend 3-4 bn $ on a 4.5 gen jet which will fly for next 20-25 year, and may have asked for two as (unfortunately for PAF) PDF members are still not in consensus to go for EF or Rafale

ohh, I forgot J-10, ahh well, J-11/J16 as well, my apologies

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I do not think it is to replace F-16 A/Bs, at-least not when it will be inducted.

Now about why to limit to 5th-gen, you can differ with PAF opinion, but they would have looked at all options, compared 5th gen with so called 4.5 gen, their current schedule for block 3 and its comparison to 4.5 gen. AND also have looked at how they can go with four files in arms for funds, including a B, a block 3, than a 5th gen, and than also funding for a NGF project. And than after agreement from other side (saying light heartedly) suddenly slipped out of another side a funding request for a 4.5 gen, and while the other side would have looked incredulously at them, explained that guys on PDF are very worried about '2-3 years' gap so we must spend 3-4 bn $ on a 4.5 gen jet which will fly for next 20-25 year, and may have asked for two as (unfortunately for PAF) PDF members are still not in consensus to go for EF or Rafale

ohh, I forgot J-10, ahh well, J-11/J16 as well, my apologies

If you're going to add another engine set, then ask for the Super Hornet. Kuwait is getting them for $250 million a fighter all-in (with spare parts, logistics, spare engines, etc). That's a bargain compared to the $323m unit cost of the Typhoon Tranche 3. It'd be interesting to see Washington's reaction to such a request. In fact, the reaction all around to said request would be a spectacle.

I guarantee you that even though it's an American fighter, because it is not the "F-16 again" you'll see people here conflicted. Then India is going to be ticked because the Super Bug was on their list, it'd be a reverse troll for the Block-70/72 noise a few months ago.

Though in all seriousness, I think the noise and statements will ultimately amount to a request for 18 new-built F-16 - potentially Block-72 (aka F-16V) with a request for 18 upgrade kits for the Block-52+. If we're lucky, it'd be 36 new-built F-16s plus 18 kits.

 

[The Sandman]

@SherDil
@war&peace @Doordie @The Sandman I couldn't control my laughter

Well he is right you know

 

[messiach]

You mean - plugging perceived gap in quantity OR quality!

Hi,

Thank you---you made that veru clear---.

So---what are we left with then!!!!!

 

[Hassan Guy]

Just go with J10B folks comes loaded with all goods !!! no MLU needed
This is what we could have already inducted in our airforce

All Modern , Top of Line tech no MLU needed

We need to stop chasing Shadows and get tangible Fighter Jets to finish modernization efforts

0 KM birds​

View attachment 389577

Has the weapons / EW capabilities and latest items

• Typhoon
• J10B

Are both tangible platforms

No point for J-10B when JF-17 Block 3 is in development.
PAF already has 2 single engine 4+ gen fighters.

 

[ghazi768]

If you're going to add another engine set, then ask for the Super Hornet. Kuwait is getting them for $250 million a fighter all-in (with spare parts, logistics, spare engines, etc). That's a bargain compared to the $323m unit cost of the Typhoon Tranche 3. It'd be interesting to see Washington's reaction to such a request. In fact, the reaction all around to said request would be a spectacle.

I guarantee you that even though it's an American fighter, because it is not the "F-16 again" you'll see people here conflicted. Then India is going to be ticked because the Super Bug was on their list, it'd be a reverse troll for the Block-70/72 noise a few months ago.

Though in all seriousness, I think the noise and statements will ultimately amount to a request for 18 new-built F-16 - potentially Block-72 (aka F-16V) with a request for 18 upgrade kits for the Block-52+. If we're lucky, it'd be 36 new-built F-16s plus 18 kits.

I liked hornets, good jets. But than MK will have another tale to tell for next 9-10 years and with his coterie of PDF members punch PAF to the pulp

In seriousness, chances of block 70/72 are low, they were not receptive the last time. But there is a project going on about F-16s in Turkey, I do not know where it stands now. If it becomes successful in near future, in time when there is still life left in our jets, than I am of the opinion that it should be seriously looked into.

 

[Readerdefence]

Just go with J10B folks comes loaded with all goods !!! no MLU needed
This is what we could have already inducted in our airforce

All Modern , Top of Line tech no MLU needed

We need to stop chasing Shadows and get tangible Fighter Jets to finish modernization efforts

0 KM birds​

View attachment 389577

Has the weapons / EW capabilities and latest items

• Typhoon
• J10B

Are both tangible platforms

Hi there is a debate going on SDF that j10b might not be having aesa in it
So better to have an aesa bird instead of pesa j10c will definitely be having AESA
Rest you are quiet knowledgeable member on this forum yourself
Thx

No point for J-10B when JF-17 Block 3 is in development.
PAF already has 2 single engine 4+ gen fighters.

You are right if we have to invest huge amount for new platform
Should be for twin engines

If you're going to add another engine set, then ask for the Super Hornet. Kuwait is getting them for $250 million a fighter all-in (with spare parts, logistics, spare engines, etc). That's a bargain compared to the $323m unit cost of the Typhoon Tranche 3. It'd be interesting to see Washington's reaction to such a request. In fact, the reaction all around to said request would be a spectacle.

I guarantee you that even though it's an American fighter, because it is not the "F-16 again" you'll see people here conflicted. Then India is going to be ticked because the Super Bug was on their list, it'd be a reverse troll for the Block-70/72 noise a few months ago.

Though in all seriousness, I think the noise and statements will ultimately amount to a request for 18 new-built F-16 - potentially Block-72 (aka F-16V) with a request for 18 upgrade kits for the Block-52+. If we're lucky, it'd be 36 new-built F-16s plus 18 kits.

Hi can block52 be upgraded to 72 standard ?
Thx

 

[MastanKhan]

You mean - plugging perceived gap in quantity OR quality!

Hi,

Off course---the perceived gap---in either form---.

Anything and everything newer would still be far ahead of the F7PG's and the Mirage 3 / 5's.