‘USA’ be declared Anglo-Saxon-Occupied-Red-Indians (Native American) territory

[gambit]

You are trying to wash off the sins of The largest genocide in history of mankind .
You are trying to ignore the fact that native Indians have been marginalized and are suffering even today. since you can't contest that you are trying to drag 'India ' question ....

If the Amerinds are suffering today, it is of their own making, not because of the general American population. This fact not even the tribes themselves can dispute.

As for me dragging your India into this...

I have always find it fascinating that people from shittier countries -- shittier in every way -- will expend so much energy to find faults with US, historical and today, to portray US as the worst of humanity, when there are plenty of their own citizens eager to gain entrant into the US. They will readily abandon their shitty ways of life, the kind that was imposed by their own societies, uproot their families, gather whatever meager money they have, and leave. I have never made jokes on this forum about Indians and 7-Eleven stores, but jokes always came from a kernel of truth. So in your case, I do not see Americans abandoning their countries to settle in India. Do you?

So do yourself and your fellow Indians a big favor: Raise your India out of poverty, get rid of the evil caste system, put away those 'holy men' who feeds on rotting human flesh, treat women better, get rid of child marriages, get rid of widow burnings, and the list of shitty things goes on and on...

Then come and criticize US about what happened a couple hundred yrs ago.

I believe your claims of US having saved many people absolutely laughable. You must be a comedian !!!

The real comedy is explained above.

 

[Indo-guy]

If the Amerinds are suffering today, it is of their own making, not because of the general American population. This fact not even the tribes themselves can dispute.

As for me dragging your India into this...

I have always find it fascinating that people from shittier countries -- shittier in every way -- will expend so much energy to find faults with US, historical and today, to portray US as the worst of humanity, when there are plenty of their own citizens eager to gain entrant into the US. They will readily abandon their shitty ways of life, the kind that was imposed by their own societies, uproot their families, gather whatever meager money they have, and leave. I have never made jokes on this forum about Indians and 7-Eleven stores, but jokes always came from a kernel of truth. So in your case, I do not see Americans abandoning their countries to settle in India. Do you?

So do yourself and your fellow Indians a big favor: Raise your India out of poverty, get rid of the evil caste system, put away those 'holy men' who feeds on rotting human flesh, treat women better, get rid of child marriages, get rid of widow burnings, and the list of shitty things goes on and on...

Then come and criticize US about what happened a couple hundred yrs ago.


The real comedy is explained above.

This thread is about US . and we will talk about US .
Open thread about India if you are so pissed off . and I will reply you there appropriately .

You can't just shrug off the issue of native Indians by your tirade against Indians. You are as much outsider to US as much any Indian , Chinese , Philipino ...you are occupying land and country of Red Indians .

and they continue to remain in exile in their own country ...that's the greatest tragedy .

I am not least bothered of your abusive rant about India. That's the only way people like you resort to when left with no argument .

I did not open this thread somebody else did . I just posted my opinion based on facts I cam across . Most of the numbers , statistics quoted actually comes from American historians themselves . You were the one who quoted me and started this conversation. You seem quite frustrated with it .

I expect you conduct this conversation in civil language . I may have used rhetoric in my post but I have not resorted to abuse as you have .

as member of PDF I have right to express my views . the fact that I am an indian does not preclude my right to comment on US , its past and it's present policies .

It's my firm opinion that most of the US policies has been against the interest of humanity.

US had no reason to go war with Iraq ....forced regime change ....kill millions of innocent civilians in process .

and it was not done to save humanity ...but to lay its hand over iraqi oil .

The fact that many Indians like many other nationals are eager to go to US in pursuit of prosperity , better jobs , better education ....does not and will not change the fact that US has killed more innocents than any other country .


People are by and large opportunistic ...what is good or what is right does not matter to them .

Just because many people are flocking today to US does not anyway give sanctity to anti human policies of US government .


US has created prosperous society for its citizen with good standard of living ...that fact remains . I am not challenging those facts .

Just because a country is rich and powerful does not make it right .


In fact as you climb up the ladder ...you are more and more opened to scrutiny ...because world looks upto you .

as much I feel sorry for social evils prevalent within my country and as much as I rue low standard of living of majority of countrymen .....I am still proud of tradition of peacefulness of my country . My country has never attacked and invaded other countries in her 5000 year history of existence .

It would do good to you and your country if you are able to introspect earnestly and honestly about the wrong perpetrated by your country .

The denial otherwise continues and same old policies get repeated again and again .

You should ask yourselves why your country needs to be at war constantly ....


Ever since your country had been born , it has known no respite . wars after wars continue ...and wars do not bring any good to anybody .

there has been no country on this earth with whom America have not been at war , conflict or antagonistic with at some or other point of time . why ?

If you closely watch the history of world in recent past ...you will notice that many of the conflicts , wars have been US legacy . and US has created never ending suffering in the world . all the mess created in process to protect its own ' perceived ' interests ...


I would be glad if you can reply to my post in logical fashion than continue your " you have no right to question my great country ' kind of oft repeated tag line ....


PDF is place to discuss and exchange ideas ....

Let us see if you can succeed in changing my views .

since this thread is about US ...let us confine the discussion to US .

If you wish to talk about India ...feel free to create thread about India ...and I shall join you on discussion there too .

 

[gambit]

This thread is about US . and we will talk about US .
Open thread about India if you are so pissed off . and I will reply you there appropriately .

That would be redundant, in my opinion.

You say one thing bad about US. I say one thing bad about India. And so on...

Let the readers decide on which is the superior, not merely 'better', country. Who knows? You may get lucky and an American will chose to emigrate to India just from reading you.

 

[Indo-guy]

That would be redundant, in my opinion.

You say one thing bad about US. I say one thing bad about India. And so on...

Let the readers decide on which is the superior, not merely 'better', country. Who knows? You may get lucky and an American will chose to emigrate to India just from reading you.

where is the question of superiority ?

Did I ever say anything about superiority ?

You are taking conversation on totally different level .

I said on several counts US is way superior than India . there is no doubt about it. I never disputed it.

Discussion is about the topic of the thread that is Native Indians in US . seems you have nothing to discuss about it .


This is the inviolable fact that US as a nation has been in total denial about what it did to its original inhabitants .

There has been systematic attempt to wipe the history of Native Indians from public memory .

and that's why the denial goes on .

In one of my post I had quoted several references suggesting how Native Indians continue to suffer in their own country even today .

even UN has had to rebuke US for its treatment of native Indians ....

and that speaks for itself ....it is indeed matter of great shame to Superpower like US !

 

[gambit]

where is the question of superiority ?

Did I ever say anything about superiority ?

No. But I do.

You are taking conversation on totally different level .

That I felt was needed to provide the proper context.

I said on several counts US is way superior than India . there is no doubt about it. I never disputed it.

Good...Then drop the issue.

Discussion is about the topic of the thread that is Native Indians in US . seems you have nothing to discuss about it .

Do you really think YOU or your fellow Indians have anything new to contribute about this issue? Do you really think the millions of immigrants to the US, which includes Indians, then and now, care? You are in this to label US a certain way. That much is clear. So drop the pretense of anything else. Labeling US as any kind of evil you want in this little corner of the Internet is not going to persuade the hundreds of millions of Americans, US borned or naturalized, to suddenly leave the country out of shame. This thread is about satisfying your and your fellow Indians' own emotional issues. That is all there is.

 

[Indo-guy]

No. But I do.


That I felt was needed to provide the proper context.


Good...Then drop the issue.


Do you really think YOU or your fellow Indians have anything new to contribute about this issue? Do you really think the millions of immigrants to the US, which includes Indians, then and now, care? You are in this to label US a certain way. That much is clear. So drop the pretense of anything else. Labeling US as any kind of evil you want in this little corner of the Internet is not going to persuade the hundreds of millions of Americans, US borned or naturalized, to suddenly leave the country out of shame. This thread is about satisfying your and your fellow Indians' own emotional issues. That is all there is.

I am not labeling US .

why are you so scared to discuss the issues ?

US is too big to get labeled by insignificant me .

Question is to the facts as they are and opinions about it and reasons thereabout .

My intention is not to name or shame anybody .


If you believe everything is all and well with US and there is no need to make any mends then that's it .

If I love my country truly ...I would not be blinded by her splendor to ignore her ugliness ....

same would apply to you too .

I am quite surprised that most of the people I come across , they are of that sort who would never admit that their country can go wrong or had gone wrong ...

I think such people only do injustice to their countries ...

 

[gambit]

I am not labeling US .

why are you so scared to discuss the issues ?

US is too big to get labeled by insignificant me .

Question is to the facts as they are and opinions about it and reasons thereabout .

My intention is not to name or shame anybody .

Yeah...Right...

What is there to discuss? The US of today is not the US of 200 yrs ago. The current generation of Americans have nothing to do with what happened to the native Americans, other than being the beneficiaries of the results from conflict between the two peoples. They built up the land and in the process, they acknowledged a historical wrong and attempted to make some forms of atonement to the current generation and descendants of the native Americans of yesterday. Nothing more to DO. Any attempt by anyone from any shittier country than US is nothing more than to be inflammatory and mud slinging. So do not tell the Americans here that you have no intentions of shaming us here on this little corner of the Internet. Most likely, am old enough to be your father. You think you can pull this shit on me, pup?

If I love my country truly ...I would not be blinded by her splendor to ignore her ugliness ....

But I would also NOT do her a disservice by ignoring her attempts to make amends, as those who come from shittier countries would like Americans to do. It ain't gonna work.

I am quite surprised that most of the people I come across , they are of that sort who would never admit that their country can go wrong or had gone wrong ...

Let me know of any American on this forum to EXPLICITLY told this little corner of the Internet that the US can and have done no wrong.

I think such people only do injustice to their countries ...

Then those who ignore how much worse their countries are to the US but continues to focus on US have done gross injustice to their countries.

Now...What is it about widow burnings that continues to plague your 'glorious' India?

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

‘USA’ should be declared as a land of ancient civilizations (Mayans, Incas, Aztecs etc.) illegally and immorally occupied by Anglo-Saxons. In order to restore the magnificent civilizations of pre-Columbian era, the murderous people settled in so called USA should be told to leave the continent. All the Europeans should be sent back to their respective countries and natives should be left free.

Western historians may argue all those civilizations were confined to Mexico and there was none in the territory of what is now USA. But who knows the truth? Who knows whether there were some inhabitants in ‘USA’ before Anglo-Saxons arrived? What if the British destroyed their monuments, architecture and covered up evidence of any civilization.

Should I ask my maternal family to leave the US, after living in Texas for 2 centimes ?

'USA’ should be declared as a land of ancient civilizations (Mayans, Incas, Aztecs etc.) illegally and immorally occupied by Anglo-Saxons. In order to restore the magnificent civilizations of pre-Columbian era, the murderous people settled in so called USA should be told to leave the continent. All the Europeans should be sent back to their respective countries and natives should be left free.

That's an insane assumption. How come you want to send all Europeans to their home of origins, while ignoring the other migrant ethnic groups such as Afro-Americans, Asian Americans, Hindu Americans, and their likes?

As for setting natives free, I don't think that's the vault of people living currently in the US, whoever they were.

Aside, they still enjoy some sort of advantages, no harm, as long as honest historians openly admitted how cruel the ethnic cleansing were.

‘USA’ should be declared as a land of ancient civilizations (Mayans, Incas, Aztecs etc.) illegally and immorally occupied by Anglo-Saxons. In order to restore the magnificent civilizations of pre-Columbian era, the murderous people settled in so called USA should be told to leave the continent. All the Europeans should be sent back to their respective countries and natives should be left free.

Western historians may argue all those civilizations were confined to Mexico and there was none in the territory of what is now USA. But who knows the truth? Who knows whether there were some inhabitants in ‘USA’ before Anglo-Saxons arrived? What if the British destroyed their monuments, architecture and covered up evidence of any civilization.

 

[Gibbs]

Continuing genocide of native Americans to this day.. Shameless excuses of not responsible for things that happened 200 years ago does not hold water

 

[Gibbs]

 

[gambit]

Continuing genocide of native Americans to this day.. Shameless excuses of not responsible for things that happened 200 years ago does not hold water

So you skipped the part about the family's drinking and fighting...Shameless dishonesty.

Seminole Tribe buys Hard Rock business for $965 million - Dec. 7, 2006

NEW YORK (CNN) -- In a cash deal valued at $965 million the Seminole Tribe of Florida purchased the Hard Rock cafe, hotel and casino business in a first-of-its-kind deal between the Native American tribe and Hard Rock's foreign parent company, both parties announced Thursday.

How many Fortune 500 enterprises are owned by American Indian tribes? Care to guess?

 

[gambit]

In one of my post I had quoted several references suggesting how Native Indians continue to suffer in their own country even today .

You mean like this...

Goal IX Newsletter | Special Committees and Commissions

Doing Business in Indian Country: by Gabriel S. Galanda

Indian tribes are not merely casino entrepreneurs or cigarette wholesalers. In conjunction with America's largest corporations, Indians are now engaged in real estate development, banking and finance, telecommunications, wholesale and retail trade, and tourism. By 2005, U.S. tribes have become an economic, legal, and political force to be reckoned with. Consider these facts:

- Most of Fortune 500's top 20 companies now do business in Indian Country, including Wal-Mart, Exxon, G.M. and Ford (#1-4), Verizon, AT&T, Home Depot, Target and Bank of America.

- Tribal businesses, although generally not subject to state and federal taxation, have annually generated over $246 million in tax revenue for states and counties, and $4.1 billion for the Federal Government.

- Gaming tribes contributed $32 billion in revenue, $12.4 billion in wages and 490,000 jobs to the U.S. economy in 2001.

- Indian tribes occupy more than 55 million acres of land in 30 states.

Both the cause and effect of the dramatic rise in Indian economic development is the increased interaction of tribes and non-tribal parties who seek business, employment, or recreation on Indian reservations. Consequently, Indian tribes and non-Indians are executing billions of dollars in commercial transactions and frequently litigating those deals. Indian Country is beginning to look a lot like Corporate America.

I wonder if the American Indians are doing better than the Dalits in India.

 

[Indo-guy]

You mean like this...

Goal IX Newsletter | Special Committees and Commissions

I wonder if the American Indians are doing better than the Dalits in India.

Very foundation of US is based on the largest genocide known to mankind .
and the oppression continues .

a whole nation of Indians was decimated and systematically eliminated by European invaders ...and there are hardly any parallels to this in human history .

what is worse , despite 2 centuries whole American nation is in state of steadfast denial ...as if nothing ever happened .
and the subjugation and marginalization of native Indians continues till very date .



some reading list for you . You seem quite a bit ignorant about status of native Indians in US .

It will be good if you can read following resources . It will enlighten you a bit ...


http://www.google.com.sg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http://www.ipsnews.net/2012/09/u-n-report-chastises-u-s-for-status-of-native-population/&ei=RGj7UtqeOo6jiQexhIDAAw&usg=AFQjCNGd6z21hsmP53e5hVLIeOYyxx1t-A&sig2=V6G8cBNIjxKjQq6BWy8f8Q

Settlement Begins in U.S. Mismanagement of Native Funds - Inter Press Service

Bury my life at Wounded Knee - The Native Press


Indian in America Today: Ignored and Oppressed | Kasama Project


Project MUSE - The Familiar Face of Genocide: Internalized Oppression among American Indians

Problems Facing Native American Indians in the Modern World


http://www.google.com.sg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=21&ved=0CCQQFjAAOBQ&url=http://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1027&context=chc_theses&ei=92X7Uu-TMYiciAfVmIG4AQ&usg=AFQjCNHAtnKy1syFYUAxnKQ5txF38kzcKg&sig2=jhdchm_xA4ugHIjmcvCsjA


Rhetorican Sovereignty http://zbi.ee/~kalevi/lyons.pdf


A People's History of the United States

Continuing genocide of native Americans to this day.. Shameless excuses of not responsible for things that happened 200 years ago does not hold water

The whole red Indian nation was destroyed and doomed forever in a systematic campaign against them over last 500 years ...

It took US government year 2009 to issue apology that too came after UN pressure .

But there is no sincerity ...in that apology.

US continues to celebrate Thanks giving day ....which is day of mourning for red Indians as it marks beginning of carnage alike of which mankind has never seen .

European invaders looted , slaughtered , raped whole Red Indian nation...and they were forced to live in exile in their own country .

Native Indians had populated whole of American continent prior to arrival of European invaders ..

They were the only entity in America ....today they have been reduced to minority .


Thanks to the largest pogrom in history of mankind ....more than 100 million native Indians were killed in this American Holocaust !!!

 

[Indo-guy]

You mean like this...

Goal IX Newsletter | Special Committees and Commissions

I wonder if the American Indians are doing better than the Dalits in India.

watch these lectures / documentaries ...it might open your eyes .

 

[gambit]

some reading list for you . You seem quite a bit ignorant about status of native Indians in US .

Your arguments and criticisms are done for. Those videos posted? They have been debunked many times over because of the dishonest way they were edited to remove contents that would have provided proper contexts. The Amerinds tribes today are much more sovereign on their own lands than the Dalits are free in your 'glorious' India and probably wealthier as well. If there are any poverty on Indian lands, it is because of the corruption of their own tribal leaderships. This has been documented over and over and over...

The Seminole Tribe is suddenly wealthy, but little oversight means potential abuses - Sun Sentinel

The Seminole Tribe is suddenly wealthy, but little oversight means potential abuses

Every Seminole shares in the wealth, but a handful of tribal leaders have especially benefited, steering millions of the tribe's money and business to themselves, their families and their friends, a South Florida Sun-Sentinel investigation found.

"From the outside, the tribe looks great. We just bought a $1 billion company," said Andrew Bowers Jr., a lawyer who served two years on the Tribal Council before losing his seat in a May election. "On the inside, I'm not sure we're functioning as a tribal government should, because as far as the spending, we don't take enough steps to control it. It's not being spent equally on everyone."

The Seminoles have long guarded their privacy and financial information and, as a sovereign nation, are under no obligation to open their records. The Sun-Sentinel obtained thousands of pages of tribal documents, including audits, budgets and council resolutions, and interviewed Seminole leaders and tribal members.

You think you brought on anything new? Not.

Like I said, you and your fellow Indians have serious psychological and emotional issues. You got problems in your own country far far far more serious than US, so your need to escape is obvious. Sad...The CURRENTLY oppressed in your country needs US and Americans as a guide and inspiration while the privileged Indians on this forum pretentiously tries to lecture America about how to rectify and atone for what happened a couple hundred yrs ago. As a group on this forum, you are as much as a joke like the Chinese are.