US Stealth UAV RQ-170 downed in IRAN

[gambit]

if we beleive that the llane crashed into many pieces even then it will be useful for iranians....the drone was shaped like the older f117 stealths but its not the shape.....its the material that the iranians will know now.
the exact composition of alloys used in body and engine.....And the radar absorbant coating..

You need to get this straight: At the current state of absorber technology, being low radar observable depends more on shape than on material. Even absorbers have initial reflections. No absorber is 100% effective.

 

[Safriz]

You need to get this straight: At the current state of absorber technology, being low radar observable depends more on shape than on material. Even absorbers have initial reflections. No absorber is 100% effective.

yes thats true..but the matter under discussion is if iran can get anything out of the captured drone?
the answer is yes.
the absorbant material was clasdified stuff...now in the hands of iran.
and i dont think USA posted the alloy composition on the internet..that tok must be classified..and now in the hands of iranians.
but most importantly....if iranians did hack the control system in nevada...as reports of virus suggest then this is very signigicsnt fkaw in the drone warfare.

 

[longbrained]

Was Iran's Downing of RQ-170 Related to the Malware Infection at Creech AFB?

UPDATE (1121 04DEC11): CNN quotes a U.S. official confirming that an operator lost flight control of an RQ-170 Sentinel over Western Afghanistan (which borders Eastern Iran).

The Washington Post has reported that Iran's cyber warfare unit took over the controls of a Lockheed Martin RQ-170 Sentinel stealth drone flying over Eastern Iran and landed it with minimal damage. As of this writing, the U.S. Air Force hasn't yet confirmed or denied the attack. I've left a message with the on-call PA officer at Creech Air Force Base, which is the home of the 432d Wing which flies RQ-170 Sentinels according to this factsheet.

Creech Air Force Base, as you may recall, suffered a malware infection of its Reaper and Predator Ground Control Stations last October. After Noah Shachtman broke the story, the Air Force issued a press release claiming that the malware was a simple "credential stealer" and not a "keylogger", which is a distinction without a difference as I pointed out here. Approximately one and a half months after the Air Force issued that statement, Iran claims to have successfully compromised the flying operations of one of its drones - possibly flown out of the same Air Force base.

Iran's Cyber Warfare Capabilities

Note: The following assessment comes from chapter 16 of the 2nd edition of Inside Cyber Warfare, due out this month:

In 2010 the Iranian Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) set up its first official cyber warfare division.Since then, its budget and focus has indicated the intention of growing these cyber warfare capabilities. Education is considered a top priority in the strategy, with increased attention to computer engineering-specific cyber security programs. The IRGC budget on cyber capabilities is estimated to be US$76 million. The IRGC’s cyber warfare capabilities are believed to include the following weapons: compromised counterfeit computer software,wireless data communications jammers, computer viruses and worms, cyber data collection exploitation, computer and network reconnaissance, and embedded Trojan time bombs.

The cyber personnel force is estimated to be 2,400, with an additional 1,200 in reserves or at the militia level. In June 2011 Iran announced that the Khatam al-Anbiya Base, which is tasked with protecting Iranian cyberspace, is now capable to counter any cyber attack from abroad, a claim that will likely be tested soon given the volatile nature of cyberspace. In August 2011 Iran challenged the United States and Israel, stating that they are ready to prove themselves with their cyber warfare capabilities. Should the Iranian cyber army be provoked, Iran would combat these operations with their own “very strong” defensive capabilities.

In my opinion, the U.S. Air Force needs to respond to this claim by the Iranians quickly and authoritatively because its lackluster conduct regarding the initial infection found at Creech makes this claim by Iran more believable, not less.

Digital Dao

 

[gambit]

yes thats true..but the matter under discussion is if iran can get anything out of the captured drone?
the answer is yes.

Of course. But the equally important question is whether those 'anything' can be of use for the immediate future. If we go by the assumption that the Serbs transferred the remains of the F-117 to China, look how long did it took China to come up with the J-20.

...but most importantly....if iranians did hack the control system in nevada...as reports of virus suggest then this is very signigicsnt fkaw in the drone warfare.

The report 'suggest' no such thing. It was rather quite inferred, and very generously at that.

---------- Post added at 06:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------

In my opinion, the U.S. Air Force needs to respond to this claim by the Iranians quickly and authoritatively because its lackluster conduct regarding the initial infection found at Creech makes this claim by Iran more believable, not less.

Iran can make any claim it want and it does not matter how many people believe such claim. Claims cannot defy the laws of physics.

 

[unicorn]

U.S. Military Sources: Iran Has Missing U.S. Drone

Pentagon has confirmed that Iran has possession of the missing drone

Iran appears to be in possession of one of America's most sophisticated weapons, a super-secret spy plane whose stealth technology is the same as the drone used to monitor the compound during the raid that killed Usama bin Laden, U.S. military sources told Fox News on Monday.

Military sources confirmed that the Iranians have the RQ-170 drone, which is so advanced that the U.S. Air Force has not distributed even a photo of it. However, they did not say that the Iranians shot down the spy plane, as was reported by Iran's official IRNA news agency.

U.S. Military Sources: Iran Has Missing U.S. Drone | Fox News

 

[Oldman1]

Cyber experts, Pentagon skeptical Iran brought down U.S. drone | The Envoy - Yahoo! News

A day after the Pentagon acknowledged that an unmanned American reconnaissance drone went missing while on an operation in western Afghanistan late last week, Defense officials still smarting from the incident have come forward to dismiss Iranian claims that the drone was brought down by hostile activity. And American cyber experts similarly expressed skepticism over Iranian contentions that hackers based in Iran brought down the drone by penetrating its software or jamming its signals.

"The one thing I can tell you is we don't have any indications that the UAV [unmanned aerial vehicle], that we know we no longer have, was brought down by hostile activity of any kind," Pentagon spokesman Capt. John Kirby told reporters at a Pentagon press briefing Monday otherwise short of many further details on the embarrassing incident, ABC News's Luis Martinez reported. "As it says in the statement, the controllers lost control and, without getting into specific details, I think we're comfortable stating that there's no indication of hostile activity."

Likewise, the reported contention made by some Iranian military officials that an Iranian cyber-warfare unit commandeered the drone strains credulity, cyber-security expert James Lewis said.

"Iran hacking into the drone is as likely as an Ayatollah standing on a mountain-top and using thought waves to bring it down," Lewis, a former Reagan administration official now with the Center for Strategic and International Studies, told Yahoo News by email Monday. "The most likely explanation is that it crashed on its own."

"If you could hack into a drone, you wouldn't use it for some spontaneous fun, you'd save it for a rainy day," Lewis continued. "You'd need to be able to hack either the control network in the U.S. or a satellite. Neither is easy, and both are probably not something the Iranians can do."

Lewis also pointed out that alternative Iranian claims the Iran military shot the U.S. drone down seemingly contradict the contention the drone in their hands had sustained only limited damage. "If you shoot something down from that altitude, there are lots of pieces not 'nearly intact,' " he said. (Analysts have also noted that Iranian media have not published any photos of the drone the Iranian military allegedly acquired, thwarting the ability to assess how it fell to earth and in what state.)

"It's possible," he allowed, "that one of their aircraft bumped into it--the disadvantage of a drone not having a pilot is that situational awareness is limited." But Lewis stressed that this scenario, too, is unlikely.

Aviation experts meanwhile suggested that the intelligence damage from the alleged craft in question--a U.S. RQ-170 stealth drone--falling into Iranian hands is unfortunate, if perhaps somewhat mitigated by the fact it employs stealth technology that is now a few years old.

"Even if Iran has, as it claims, shot down a Lockheed Martin RQ-170 unmanned aerial system (UAS), the single-channel, full-motion video capability that made the stealthy flying wing so invaluable when it debuted in Afghanistan about two years ago is considered outdated, potentially limiting the intelligence fallout," Aviation Week's David Fulghum and Bill Sweetman reported Monday.

Lewis however countered that interpretation sounded like wishful thinking--or perhaps Air Force spin--to him. The technology is "dated, yes," he said, "but still more than our ... foreign friends have." (The Pentagon, for its part, has declined to confirm the model of drone lost.)

Through all the speculation, disclaimers and spin, one thing is clear: It's a major embarrassment for the Pentagon to have a valuable drone fall into the hands of Iran, however it got there. And it's all the more awkward for Iran to gain this strategic and public relations advantage at the current moment, as U.S. diplomats are making a concerted push to impress leaders of the Islamic republic with the harsh consequences for its alleged defiance of international demands to curb its nuclear program. "From the beginning of RQ-170 operations, indications from the intelligence community were that Iran's missile program was one set of targets of interest, as was its nuclear weapons program," Fulghum and Sweetman wrote.

Meanwhile, one last, and perhaps obvious, disclaimer: American military officials do not seem to be harboring expectations that Iran will simply haul off and return their drone.

In reply to a media question presenting this prospect, the otherwise tight-lipped Pentagon spokesman Kirby replied simply, "No."

 

[somebozo]

now reverse engineer it

 

[Safriz]

so it wasnt an.iranian hoax after all.

 

[longbrained]

Whenever US gets into a mess (which is numerous nowadays), they start playing and acting like an innocent teenage girl. The reality though is that they messed up real bad. Actually CIA is in deep dirty soil there. They lost their spies there a few weeks ago and now they have lost their most sophisticated drone. They now only have the satellites to look into Iran. But then so does Google. So what is the point of having CIA when Google gives it to you for free.

 

[longbrained]

Iran's Revolutionary Guards prepare for war

An order from Gen Mohammed Ali Jaafari, the commander of the guards, raised the operational readiness status of the country’s forces, initiating preparations for potential external strikes and covert attacks.
Western intelligence officials said the Islamic Republic had initiated plans to disperse long-range missiles, high explosives, artillery and guards units to key defensive positions.
The order was given in response to the mounting international pressure over Iran’s nuclear programme. Preparation for a confrontation has gathered pace following last month’s report by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in Vienna that produced evidence that Iran was actively working to produce nuclear weapons.
The Iranian leadership fears the country is being subjected to a carefully co-ordinated attack by Western intelligence and security agencies to destroy key elements of its nuclear infrastructure.
Recent explosions have added to the growing sense of paranoia within Iran, with the regime fearing it will be the target of a surprise military strike by Israel or the US.

Its ballistic missile programme suffered a major setback on Nov 12 after an explosion at the regime’s main missile testing facility at Bidganeh, about 30 miles west of Tehran.
At least 17 people died, including Gen Hassan Tehrani Moghaddam, the head of Iran’s missile research programme.
The IAEA report said Iranian scientists had worked to develop a missile capable of carrying nuclear warheads. Security analysts described Iran’s missile advances as “a turning point” that had “profound strategic implications”.
Last week another mysterious explosion caused significant damage to Iran’s uranium conversion facility at Isfahan.
“It looks like the 21st century form of war,” said Patrick Clawson of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a Washington think tank, told the Los Angeles Times. “It does appear that there is a campaign of assassinations and cyber war, as well as the semi-acknowledged campaign of sabotage.”
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s spiritual leader, issued a directive to the heads of all the country’s military, intelligence and security organisations to take all necessary measures to protect the regime.
Gen Jaafari responded to this directive by ordering Revolutionary Guards units to redistribute Iran’s arsenal of long-range Shahab missiles to secret sites around the country where they would be safe from enemy attack and could be used to launch retaliatory attacks.
In addition, the Iranian air force has formed a number of “rapid reaction units”, which have been carrying out extensive exercises to practice a response to an enemy air attack.
At the weekend, Iran claimed it had succeeded in shooting down an advanced American RQ-170 drone in the east of the country. If true, this would represent a major coup for the ayatollahs, as this type of drone contains sensitive stealth technology that allows it to operate for hours without being detected.
A spokesman for Nato’s International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan would only confirm that US operators had “lost control” of a drone, without specifying the model.
Intelligence officials believe the dangerous game of cat and mouse between Iran and the West was responsible for last week’s attack on the British Embassy in Tehran. William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, closed the embassy and expelled Iranian diplomats in response.
But with Iran showing no sign of backing down over its nuclear programme, there is growing concern that Israel will launch unilateral military action.
At the weekend, Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s prime minister, warned that he would take “the right decision at the right moment” if Iran continued with its uranium enrichment programme.
Israel’s uncompromising approach is viewed with alarm in Washington.
Leon Panetta, the US defence secretary, has warned that a unilateral strike by Israel risked “an escalation” that could “consume the Middle East in confrontation and conflict that we would regret”.
A senior Western intelligence official said: "There is deep concern within the senior leadership of the Iranian regime that they will be the target of a surprise military strike by either Israel or the US.
"For that reason they are taking all necessary precautions to ensure they can defend themselves properly if an attack happens." Iran's Revolutionary Guards prepare for war - Telegraph

 

[ephone]

Are there any Chinese scientists on the ground there by now?

The Iranian military has downed an intruding US reconnaissance drone in eastern Iran, an informed source says.

PressTV - Iran military downs US spy drone

 

[Safriz]

Whenever US gets into a mess (which is numerous nowadays), they start playing and acting like an innocent teenage girl. The reality though is that they messed up real bad. Actually CIA is in deep dirty soil there. They lost their spies there a few weeks ago and now they have lost their most sophisticated drone. They now only have the satellites to look into Iran. But then so does Google. So what is the point of having CIA when Google gives it to you for free.

and the poor american tax payer foots the bill....people who gain nothing from CIA/armed forces wars abroad.

 

[gambit]

Whenever US gets into a mess (which is numerous nowadays), they start playing and acting like an innocent teenage girl. The reality though is that they messed up real bad. Actually CIA is in deep dirty soil there. They lost their spies there a few weeks ago and now they have lost their most sophisticated drone. They now only have the satellites to look into Iran. But then so does Google. So what is the point of having CIA when Google gives it to you for free.

It is comments like this that has readers laughing at people here. If you think that all the CIA does is read maps in this age of Google, then you should have no problems advocating ALL intelligence services be disbanded. Heck, given what Stuxnet did to Iran's nuclear weapons program, Iran most definitely should execute everyone in the Iranian intelligence service for incompetency.

 

[gambit]

and the poor american tax payer foots the bill....people who gain nothing from CIA/armed forces wars abroad.

And the already poor Pakistani taxpayers foot the bill to support the Pakistani military which was clueless about bin Laden living right next door to one of its military academy. Do you think the Pakistani military should be disbanded?

 

[longbrained]

It is comments like this that has readers laughing at people here. If you think that all the CIA does is read maps in this age of Google, then you should have no problems advocating ALL intelligence services be disbanded. Heck, given what Stuxnet did to Iran's nuclear weapons program, Iran most definitely should execute everyone in the Iranian intelligence service for incompetency.

Not really, Iranians took revenge for that in the form of this virus infecting every single drone control system in US arsenal that as per admission of US Airforce, no expert including DARPA has been able to get rid off. A US air force official has admitted that they wipe the system and the virus gets back in again. Besides, lets not forget all those IED's that Iran was planting in Iraq blowing up American troops life and limb. And, yeah, google is not about maps, they also have something like street view and satellite imagery the last time I visited their website. Much like CIA, google also does not have any man on the ground in Iran. So I say Google is better than CIA, they atleast make money unlike CIA which loses the money. Iranian intel kicked your behind from Iraq. Go check reality. 31st December is the date to watch. 25 days to go.