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US SEAL team was to surrender if surrounded by Pak troops

What was the point in engaging the front line state in War on Terror and your ally militarily when you could get things done diplomatically in the first place ? Does that make sense talking of F18's being ready to bomb Pakistan or Chinooks ready to get another 30 member of QRF team ? :no: ... May I ask what the heck would they have done against some entire regiments or companies of Pakistan Army ? ... The wisest course of action if Islamabad wasn't informed would have been to surrender when surrounded and then wait for US Govt to negotiate their release ... Why get your supplies blocked and make your life more difficult in Afghanistan ?

I highly doubt this is false ...


Yaaar please calm down.


Americans had been practicing (some times jointly with SSG, and sometimes alone) in Tarbela base that is "stones throw" from Abbotabad (as the crow flies).


Our top generals were and are deathly worried that our nation will side with Mullahtic bozos and Jih@dis and thus they didn't want to be openly part of the killing of Ben Fing laden.

I mean Jih@dis were able to bomb SSG mess hall after Lal Masjid goons were sent to Jahannam.

Our SSG were worried too as to how they will be attacked if they were part of this raid. Heck even American seals sitting 1000s of miles away in secure country are worried about their safetyd, what do you think was going on in the minds of Pak army officers sitting next door?

huh?

FYI. Through and through Pak gov and army had told Americans that they can come in and do the "good deed".


All this F-16, F-18, F100011 chinooks and Hinooks talk is for tabloids. Let it happen.

And please oh please let Indians have few virtual orgasms (as most aren't getting any ;) ), and do not bother with their petty posts.


peace.
 
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After reading your comment i can understand why you have got 392 thanks out of 1,024 posts.... American Special forces along with NATO forces sitting with in 200 km range of Pakistan... and they will start missile strike over Pakistan and Pakistan in response sitting duck ahaan? lolzzzz

Oh... I am not a person who expects reward or award... So keep your rating based on no. of thanks to yourself!

You are speaking about a scenario which had never happened!

lol millions, may as well be billions and trillions

Yes 0.002 Billion or 0.000002 trillion... Which ever suits you!
 
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That was the order given to them by Vice President Joe Biden, who thought it would be best if the US Special forces surrender if Pakistani military surrounded them, and then US VP Biden would fly out to Islamabad hoping to negotiate a release of the Special Forces.



Soldiers have to follow orders, and according to news sources VP Biden had given the order Special Forces surrender to Pakistani military if surrounded and then US would hope to get their release.

If the VP ordered them to surrender, knowing what fate they would meet in Pakistani prisons, then that order is probably fine to ignore.
Soldiers are not robots, even though many foreign leaders would like to think they are. If anything, though i doubt such an order was issued, i would rather die killing enemies than surrendering and potentially giving up highly classified information to the enemy.
 
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This report is bull. The USG had Apaches Chinooks and F18s near by waiting for the go ahead to engage Pakistani forces. I'm upset at Dawn for BS'ing a headline and have lost respect for them.

The Seals did have the ability to fight their way out and they did not number in 6-8 guys but 15-18 guys. There were two helis and they had a Chinook land near by as QRF full of 30 Rangers. Thank God the military stood down due to the late night phone call otherwise..

Yeah, otherwise the 30 Rangers and a couple of squadrons of F-18's taking off from well within our strike range would have annihilated Pakistan. Very intelligent.
 
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I understand President Obama said, ‘Hell no. My guys are not surrendering. What do we need to rain hell on the Pakistani military?’ ”


total BULL****!!! The SEALs would have surrendered and then let the negotiators get them released!



6 men against an ARMY! please this is not SUNNY DEOL MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get realistic!

Its foolish to discuss what would have happened if Seals were surrounded by PA...........................Its just like what would have happened if Sun revolves round Earth.................But however, the way raid was conducted and mission accomplished it was far better than Sunny Deol Movie
 
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Oh bhai, they were never gonna make there way out alive as i said earlier both sides would have suffered losses but no way in hell they were making out alive. They were asked to surrender if ordered, but priority by obama was to fight back, however it was state deparment which suggested the diplomatic channel.if they had chinooks on stand by, that my dear those were in afghanistan , before they could finish the op , f-16 were already in the air ready to intercept, but then diplomatic channels were used to call coas, so stop pulling your bullcrap without the facts
I would love to know where were those f 18s parked as you claimed, somewhere on shamsi base? .....crap

And brother, what would have happened in case Pakistan had faced military losses? What would have happened to American exit strategy and end of war in Afghanistan? How protected would the American assets be without unilateral Pakistani support to them in Afghanistan? If the US could never imagine success in Afghanistan without absolute help from Pakistan, in which would would the US have taken Pakistan on????

Don't know why these guys don't reason.
 
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And brother, what would have happened in case Pakistan had faced military losses? What would have happened to American exit strategy and end of war in Afghanistan? How protected would the American assets be without unilateral Pakistani support to them in Afghanistan? If the US could never imagine success in Afghanistan without absolute help from Pakistan, in which would would the US have taken Pakistan on????

Don't know why these guys don't reason.

This is exactly what i am saying,these delusional people living a dream here think seals are sent from heaven with super power,
If PA or any armed forces of pakistan would have suffered losses then as you said there would have been no exit strategy for nato / isaf.
Do i need to mention here that how pakistani establishment is using its old links with taliban to struck a deal between US and them?
 
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If the VP ordered them to surrender, knowing what fate they would meet in Pakistani prisons, then that order is probably fine to ignore.
Soldiers are not robots, even though many foreign leaders would like to think they are. If anything, though i doubt such an order was issued, i would rather die killing enemies than surrendering and potentially giving up highly classified information to the enemy.



Let's make it clear.

If in case there was a "surrender", it would have been a protective custody from mob gathering at the site.

What could be that protective custody?

Moving the seal team to an army base at Tarbela base where Navy seals and other special services ops teams had been conducting joint training with Pakistani special services group.


No Jail, or anything fing close to it.

Please do not go to a discussion point if you have not study the close cooperation between American and Pakistani soldiers.


From Tarbela base, they would promptly (like in less than an hour) have been flown out of the country.


Now if you all want to discuss tabloid style, mud wrestling between navy seals and Pak soldiers, go ahead and be my guest.


peace


p.s ignorance of so many posters in this thread is just pathetic.

p.p.s I have already mentioned that Pak army was expecting a huge blowback from ben fing laden's demise (luckily it didn't happen). But the worry was not misplaced. Because earlier on Lal masjid operation had resulted in a suicide attack on the Pakistani special services group at Tarbela base.
 
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Let's make it clear.

If in case there was a "surrender", it would have been a protective custody from mob gathering at the site.

What could be that protective custody?

Moving the seal team to an army base at Tarbela base where Navy seals and other special services ops teams had been conducting joint training with Pakistani special services group.


No Jail, or anything fing close to it.

Please do not go to a discussion point if you have not study the close cooperation between American and Pakistani soldiers.


From Tarbela base, they would promptly (like in less than an hour) have been flown out of the country.


Now if you all want to discuss tabloid style, mud wrestling between navy seals and Pak soldiers, go ahead and be my guest.


peace


p.s ignorance of so many posters in this thread is just pathetic.

p.p.s I have already mentioned that Pak army was expecting a huge blowback from ben fing laden's demise (luckily it didn't happen). But the worry was not misplaced. Because earlier on Lal masjid operation had resulted in a suicide attack on the Pakistani special services group at Tarbela base.

If Pakistan allowed Chinese military officials to examine the wreckage of the crashed advanced helicopter, how good can the relationship between the US and Pakistan be? It is no secret that Pakistani-US relations are strained, at best.
 
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If Pakistan allowed Chinese military officials to examine the wreckage of the crashed advanced helicopter, how good can the relationship between the US and Pakistan be? It is no secret that Pakistani-US relations are strained, at best.


Relations strained? You betcha.

But rumors and innuendoes like throwing seals in jail, or blaming the helicopters wreckage-espionage is kind of reckless.


This precisely is the type of gung-ho thinking mostly among civis in DC and in Islu that in the past led to issue bad directions to the Pentagon.

and the result was a terrible terrible, totally foolish, and unnecessary incidence of firefight in Salala.

That in turn result in months long and totally foolish and unnecessary blockade of land routes by Pakistan.


These type of $tupidities have and will harm Pakistani and US soldiers, and further move away from our common enemy aka Talbi-bozos.



This type of bad analysis also gives fuel to the local Islamists and leftie-commies and allows them to spread the propaganda against USA.


I don't know what military history people are following in DC, but the true and unbiased military history teach us not to say things that will come back to harm and hurt his/her own military.



peace
 
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I guess it would have been a difficult proposition if Pakistani forces had actually encountered the raid party - as per reports Obama preferred them to fight their way out - that means loss of lives on both fronts - but the diplomatic fallout would have been worse and close to a war scenario - and they wouldn't have been able to take out OBL's body - which would have resulted in another crisis.
 
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I guess it would have been a difficult proposition if Pakistani forces had actually encountered the raid party - as per reports Obama preferred them to fight their way out - that means loss of lives on both fronts - but the diplomatic fallout would have been worse and close to a war scenario - and they wouldn't have been able to take out OBL's body - which would have resulted in another crisis.


Why are you bent on speculation that has been proven false over and over and over and over and over.


Please quit rumor mongering.

Thank you
 
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Why are you bent on speculation that has been proven false over and over and over and over and over.


Please quit rumor mongering.

Thank you

What rumor mongering are you talking about?

WASHINGTON — President Obama insisted that the assault force hunting down Osama bin Laden last week be large enough to fight its way out of Pakistan if confronted by hostile local police officers and troops, senior administration and military officials said Monday.

In revealing additional details about planning for the mission, senior officials also said that two teams of specialists were on standby: One to bury Bin Laden if he was killed, and a second composed of lawyers, interrogators and translators in case he was captured alive. That team was set to meet aboard a Navy ship, most likely the aircraft carrier Carl Vinson in the North Arabian Sea.

Mr. Obama’s decision to increase the size of the force sent into Pakistan shows that he was willing to risk a military confrontation with a close ally in order to capture or kill the leader of Al Qaeda.

Such a fight would have set off an even larger breach with the Pakistanis than has taken place since officials in Islamabad learned that helicopters filled with members of a Navy Seals team had flown undetected into one of their cities, and burst into a compound where Bin Laden was hiding.

One senior Obama administration official, pressed on the rules of engagement for one of the riskiest clandestine operations attempted by the C.I.A. and the military’s Joint Special Operations Command in many years, said: “Their instructions were to avoid any confrontation if at all possible. But if they had to return fire to get out, they were authorized to do it.”


The planning also illustrates how little the administration trusted the Pakistanis as they set up their operation. They also rejected a proposal to bring the Pakistanis in on the mission.

Under the original plan, two assault helicopters were going to stay on the Afghanistan side of the border waiting for a call if they were needed. But the aircraft would have been about 90 minutes away from the Bin Laden compound.

About 10 days before the raid, Mr. Obama reviewed the plans and pressed his commanders as to whether they were taking along enough forces to fight their way out if the Pakistanis arrived on the scene and tried to interfere with the operation.

That resulted in the decision to send two more helicopters carrying additional troops. These followed the two lead Black Hawk helicopters that carried the actual assault team. While there was no confrontation with the Pakistanis, one of those backup helicopters was ultimately brought in to the scene of the raid when a Black Hawk was damaged while making a hard landing.

“Some people may have assumed we could talk our way out of a jam, but given our difficult relationship with Pakistan right now, the president did not want to leave anything to chance,” said one senior administration official, who like others would not be quoted by name describing details of the secret mission. “He wanted extra forces if they were necessary.”

With tensions between the United States and Pakistan escalating since the raid, American officials on Monday sought to tamp down the divisions and pointed to some encouraging developments.

A United States official said that American investigators would soon be allowed to interview Bin Laden’s three widows, now being held by Pakistani authorities, a demand that Mr. Obama’s national security adviser, Thomas E. Donilon, made on television talk shows on Sunday.

American officials say the widows, as well as a review of the trove of documents and other data the Seals team collected from the raid, could reveal important details, not only about Bin Laden’s life and activities since he fled into Pakistan from Afghanistan in 2001, but also information about Qaeda plots, personnel and planning.

“We believe that it is very important to maintain the cooperative relationship with Pakistan precisely because it’s in our national security interest to do so,” said the White House spokesman, Jay Carney.

In an effort to help mend the latest rupture in relations, the C.I.A. director, Leon E. Panetta, will talk soon with his counterpart, Lt. Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha, head of the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, or ISI, “to discuss the way forward in the common fight against Al Qaeda,” an American official said.

On Sunday, Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called the Pakistani Army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani. “Mullen just wanted to check in with him,” said an American military official. “The conversation was civil, but sober, given the pressure that the general is under right now.”

In describing the mission, the officials said that American surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft were watching and listening to how Pakistan’s police forces and military responded to the raid. That determined how long the commandos could safely remain on the ground going through the compound collecting computer hard drives, thumb drives and documents.

American forces were under strict orders to avoid engaging with any Pakistani forces that responded to the commotion at the Bin Laden compound, senior administration officials said.

If a confrontation appeared imminent, there were contingency plans for senior American officials, including Admiral Mullen, to call their Pakistani counterparts to avert an armed clash.

But when he reviewed the plans, Mr. Obama voiced concern that this was not enough to protect the troops on the mission, administration officials said.

In planning for the possible capture of Bin Laden, officials decided they would take him aboard a Navy ship to preclude battles over jurisdiction.

The plan, officials said, was to do an initial interrogation for any information that might prevent a pending attack or identify the location of other Qaeda leaders.

“There was a heck of a lot of planning that went into this for almost any and all contingencies, including capture,” one senior administration official said.

In the end, the team organized to handle his death was called into duty. They did a quick forensics study of the body, washed it, and buried it at sea.

But the officials acknowledged that the mission always was weighted toward killing, given the possibility that Bin Laden would be armed or wearing an explosive vest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/10/world/asia/10intel.html?_r=0


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/10/bin-laden-fight-hostile-pakistan
 
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What rumor mongering are you talking about?

]

We can play if and when and if and then games like Raam Leela all night. Just need to arrange a lot of tea my dear ;)

All these speculations aside, was there any communication between Pak army and US army just before or during the ops that killed Bin fing ladeen?


peace
 
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We can play if and when and if and then games like Raam Leela all night. Just need to arrange a lot of tea my dear ;)

peace

If and when scenario's are quite lame and also spreading the word that "US SEAL team was to surrender if surrounded by Pak troops" - which again is speculations and rumor mongering without a basis when the Chief Executive himself said he would want the team to fight it's way out.

All these speculations aside, was there any communication between Pak army and US army just before or during the ops that killed Bin fing ladeen?

You tell me, as far as all the details presented till date then "NO" - though you might have some inside information.
 
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