US requests NATO supply route from Iran.

[FaujHistorian]

Is there anything wrong with the Kabul-Kandahar-Zaranj-Chahbehar route?

That goes through Tali-barbarian heartland.

Only good for supplying Kandhar. Not safe onwards.

 

[VCheng]

That goes through Tali-barbarian heartland.

Only good for supplying Kandhar. Not safe onwards.

It can be cleaned up for convoys, I am sure.

 

[FaujHistorian]

It can be cleaned up for convoys, I am sure.

didn't happen even during Prez Obama surge.

Cannot happen now or near future.

Are you supporting Ayatoooooooolahs's Iran on this topic? Just curious.

 

[VCheng]

didn't happen even during Prez Obama surge.

Cannot happen now or near future.

Are you supporting Ayatoooooooolahs's Iran on this topic? Just curious.

I am just looking at the issue logically. If PTI continues its obstructive behavior in KPK that the Federal government does not or can not stop, then the alternative route will have to be cleared and used. And of course, it can be done.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I am just looking at the issue logically. If PTI continues its obstructive behavior in KPK that the Federal government does not or can not stop, then the alternative route will have to be cleared and used. And of course, it can be done.

PTI will disappear like foam on urine puddle.

Kandhar Kabul cannot be cleaned. Reason! Geography, history, and Tali-barbarians.

 

[VCheng]

PTI will disappear like foam on urine puddle.

Kandhar Kabul cannot be cleaned. Reason! Geography, history, and Tali-barbarians.

I am sure @Leader and @Jazzbot will have something to say different in this regard.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I am sure @Leader and @Jazzbot will have something to say different in this regard.

I welcome input from our esteemed PITers.

Just remember,

PTI was elected for its development oriented promises.

If they don't deliver, they will be defeated.

If KP people can throw down the drain their historical entrenched party, PTI is just a little bacha in front of it.

Imran better quit this drama bazi and work on improving the lot of KP people.

That means rebuilding schools, roads, and supporting army to clear up the remaining strongholds of Tehrike Terrorist Pakistan (TTP).

Hope this helps.

 

[PakPrinciples]

wow... if this is true, then it's a huge development. To some extent this will definitely undermine Pakistan's so called strategic importance in the region! So called gateway to central Asia may have just found a competitor!

it always had the competitor. it was always gwadar vs chabahar. 1+ for India

The port was initially started in 1990 by India but rarely ever used so if it was so pivotal for Indian trade into Central Asia/Afghanistan why was it largely abandoned until now?

The answer seems to be India's misbegotten hopes that Chabahar could be used as a military naval dock in response to Gwadar ports construction though the main reason is simply because Pakistan refuses to grant transit rights to India which is why your country keeps pushing for privileges like MFN status.

Chabahar was never meant to compete commercially with Gwadar or Karachi ports which explains why Iran has spent more time, effort and money on the IP pipeline, even willing to invest more in the Pakistani portion of the pipeline, in comparison to this port.

The port is an uneconomical route to begin with in comparison to transit through Pakistan which was made even more apparent when it was realized that a $15 billion investment was required to build rail links to connect the Hajigak mine India leased in Afghanistan (for $10 billion) to Iran hence why India hasn't started mining anything and has now requested their lease agreement be renegotiated. Even if it those rail links were built the longer distance and increased duties, tariffs, taxes, labor and fuel costs that would need to be paid would most likely make Indian goods uneconomical in comparison to Chinese or Pakistani manufactured products unless they're heavily subsidized (which isn't economical in the long term since it's equivalent to the Indian government donating their tax revenues to Afghanistan at the cost of their own people).

To give you an example New Delhi to Kabul through Pakistan is 1278 km by road while through the Iran route the distance is 4591 km (about 951 km of which is traversed by sea assuming the Okha port in Gujrat is used). It isn't much better when you're talking about Central Asia where going from New Delhi to Tashkent via Pakistan is 2475 km versus the Iranian route which is 5177 km. However, new proposed road links like the one between Pakistan and Tajikstan via the Khunjerab pass through Afghanistan shorten the route even further.

No major Central Asian city other than Ashgabat, Turkmenistan is located closer to an Iranian port. To give a few examples:

Smarkland to Karachi Port = 2226 km
Smarkland to Gwadar Port = 2481 km
Smarkland to Chabahar Port = 2517 km

Dushanbe to Karachi Port = 1962 km
Dushanbe to Gwadar Port = 2187 km
Dushanbe to Chabahar Port = 2658 km

Tashkent to Karachi Port = 2520 km
Tashkent to Gwadar Port = 2745 km
Tashkent to Chabahar Port = 2882 km

A difference of 300 to 600 kilometers is large as it is but when you have hundreds if not thousands of trucks/trains needing to travel that extra distance on a daily basis the additional expenses you need to pay to cover labor, fuel, maintenance and in some cases additional tariffs and duties adds up making the Iranian route nowhere as economical as going through Pakistan.

Pakistan will always be the preferred destination which is why the upgrade India wanted to invest was only $100 million and simply because they had no choice.

Gwadar port on the other hand was initially constructed for $250 million with phase II upgrades of almost $1 billion and additional upgrades and projects (ex. $18 billion Pakistan-China economic corridor) being announced because even though it's primary purpose was to serve the growing Pakistani and Chinese economies it is expected to receive a lot of traffic from Central Asia and Afghanistan as it will be made accessible to all of them. For the Afghan economy in particular every extra kilometer a business needs to travel to ship or import goods counts and, like any business, wherever they can cut overhead costs they'll go that route.

Even China is likely to need this route if they hope to encash on their commercial interests in Afghanistan.

Did you even bother to look at a map before making this statement?

China leased the Mes Anyak mine in Afghanistan which is located very close to the Torkham border crossing from where they can ship the minerals directly back into China via the KKH (one of the reasons they're pushing forward the Pakistan-China economic corridor which includes the expansion of the KKH) or they can build commercial projects in the economic free zone created for them in Pakistan and wouldn't pay any taxes to the Pakistani government. If necessary China could even travel north via Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan and ships the minerals back home or goods into Afghanistan that route.

Why would they go the much longer and far more expensive sea route to Chabahar and then into Afghanistan when they have cheaper road/rail links via Central Asia or Pakistan?

I am just looking at the issue logically. If PTI continues its obstructive behavior in KPK that the Federal government does not or can not stop, then the alternative route will have to be cleared and used. And of course, it can be done.

PTI will disappear like foam on urine puddle.

Kandhar Kabul cannot be cleaned. Reason! Geography, history, and Tali-barbarians.

I don't understand why you guys are opposed to Imran Khan at least in relation to this matter.

His views are that NATO transit out of Afghanistan should be allowed and protected to encourage a quick withdrawal. What IK is opposed to is allowing NATO transit into Afghanistan via Pakistan.

NATO transit has been of no benefit to Pakistan. Virtually all of our security problems can be said to stem from allowing transit of NATO supplies through the country. In a war supply lines are routinely targeted and coupling that with the average Pakistani's sentiments what made anyone think that Pakistani territory wouldn't be attacked? This has resulted in substantial infrastructure damage and loss of life in our own country which the government itself admits has cost the nation more than US $80 billion and all for $24 billion in "AID" (really transit fees) and about $2.5 billion in fees paid to drivers to transport their materials over the 12 years of fighting. All the while 200,000 weapons are now unaccounted for and it's been stated that millions of dollars were probably paid to groups like the TTP to securely transit supplies through Afghanistan.

Many seem to be totally disconnected from what's going on. They don't think of their fellow countrymen as their own blood nor Pakistan as their motherland instead it's just dirt, rocks and trees or people living in another province. Thus, as long as it's not their mom, dad, bro, sis, wife, kids, etc... or their house being bombed they don't seem to care. They're more concerned about making another dollar rather than preserving our honor and pride which is akin to how prostitutes think.

When Pakistan as a nation and Z. A. Bhutto as a leader were threatened, the latter with death, if we continued to pursue nuclear technology to defend our motherland or Zulfiqar had to endure listening to Indian bullshit at the UN concerning our ancestral land of Kashmir he never backed down and as a nation we made it clear Pakistan was going to push forward with it's own agenda for the honor, defence and freedom of our peoples their lands and religion no matter what monetary incentives were offered or whatever threats were made. We have survived 3 major wars against a much larger adversary, sanctions after sanctions, etc... and we'll continue to survive and thrive.

Drone strikes could very likely be a better option in comparison to full scale military assaults which create large humanitarian crises. However, these strikes need to be conducted by the Pakistani military or not at all.

As IK's protest banner stated "Our Land... Our Way".

We can no longer tolerate this bullshit and if the military deems the strikes a necessity either build an armed drone force or buy some (ex. Wing Loong from China) and use them responsibly. However, we're not here to defend the Afghan government nor should we ever allow anyone to attack our lands and peoples.

Twice peace negotiations were disrupted by the US which has resulted in a continuation of the war. If the negotiations were transparent and the terms proposed were not something Pakistani's could agree to (ex. TTP administration of the country) then we could move forward with an all out war in defence of Pakistan but as of right now we're left wondering what could have been. Without closure it's difficult to achieve the kind of national consensus required to push forward because no one trusts the government all the while people largely agree with some of the more vocal demands the TTP have made and believe peace is possible.

If the US wants to transport anything through Iran I'm fine with it. However, the Pakistani government must be the one to shut down the supply lines especially after the murder of our soldiers and civilians at the hands of US personnel and considering US refusal to provide us with a nuclear cooperation along with continued opposition to the IP pipeline while granting China, India and S. Korea exemptions.

We have obtained nothing from this partnership.

 

[FaujHistorian]

......I am comparing Iran and Pakistan. Chabahar is in Iran and not Afganistan. Where does Afganistan comes in Chabahar? Maybe, PDF Analyst logic. Its possible.:hitwall

Please see the thread title before telling me what you want or do not want to discuss.

I consider you sensible Indian poster.

Don't force me to change that view by posting idiotic responses. Thank you

Dont compare Iran with Pakistan. Iran, India, etc have been part of NAM. Some reason right. Iran dont have a history of being slaves and cheerleaders like Pakistan and so do India.

Hence, country like USA cannot dent a hair of countries like India, Brazil, Iran. Pakistan is a different case. Not logical to keep Pakistan in same bracket as that of NAM countries.

Again an idiotic statement.

India working for US interests- Heavenly ham
Pakistan working for US interests - Cow slaughter

This is how a sane Indian goes bad?

 

[SBD-3]

Are you a Pakistani supporting Pakistan

or

you are Irani-wanna-be Pakistani who is supporting Aya-tooooooooooolash and Mooooooooolahs?


Just want to clear it before having a discussion.


Thank you

Am I not telling the truth? Criticizing national events and policies doesn't make me anti-national.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Gee, give up already.

This is a story planted by Indians. And it is funny to see Paksitani posters here killing themselves over it. Get a perspective on reality guys. Nothing has happened. Nothing is going to happen in near future. Why go all foamy? Quit already.

 

[rockstarIN]

Iran can only compete for Karachi-Quetta-Chaman-afghanistan route.

But most important and shortest and safest route for Kabul is not that way.

It is Karachi-Peshawar-Khyber-Jalalabad-Kabul.

Anyone jumping up and down on this fake news are ignorant of the geography

peace

Most of the iran route will be by rail. Does pak route have such facility .

 

[FaujHistorian]

Most of the iran route will be by rail. Does pak route have such facility .

Bilkul Sir Ji.

yes dear.

Am I not telling the truth? Criticizing national events and policies doesn't make me anti-national.

Your criticism stands out against Pakistan and pro-Iran.

Let me know if this is not what you were trying to say

......
Did you even bother to look at a map before making this statement?
...

Most of the Indian posters here are unfortunately total illiterates when it comes to looking at maps or having an iota of knowledge about geography.

Obviously all these guys are capable.

So the reason must be their anti-Pakistan prejudice and poor state of school geography books.

Peace

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

The two so-called enemies getting chummy now...

 

[Jazzbot]

I am just looking at the issue logically. If PTI continues its obstructive behavior in KPK that the Federal government does not or can not stop, then the alternative route will have to be cleared and used. And of course, it can be done.

KPK is most affected province from this WOT, and as a provincial govt, its PTI's right to decide what's best for their province. If they have decided that they won't let nato supplies past through KPK, then it should be respected, period.

You have other routes, you can always clean and use them, then so be it. What's the fuss? Just get the fcking nato supplies out of KPK. Recent protests in KPK and the kind of feedback from KP locals covered by tons of media channels in gazillions of videos clearly shows what people of KPK want. They have given the verdict that they will not tolerate nato supplies through KPK.

PTI will disappear like foam on urine puddle

We've been this hearing since quite long now:

PTI will disappear before election 2013 because its not a party, its just a collection of all individuals from different parties.

PTI will disappear in elections, because they do not have electables

PTI will disappear if they will win in elections because they have too many big names in party and thus they will have a lot of issues distributing ministries and hence they will collapse.

Everyone in PTI is there for his own political gains, so if they will loose elections, they will collapse.

PTI will disappear if they will make a coalition govt in KPK

PTI will disappear if they won't be able to fulfill their pre election promises in KPK

PTI will disappear if they will fail in KPK.
​

and the list goes on with

PTI ain't going anywhere anytime soon, the sooner people will get it through their heads, the better it will be for themselves. May they'll able to sleep a little better for a few nights..

Lets better discuss this when PTI will eventually disappear. Till then you can enjoy playing with foam on your urine puddle..

I am sure @Leader and @Jazzbot will have something to say different in this regard.

....