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US plays 'genocide' card to pressure Turkey on NATO missile system

As a matter of fact, doing everything for the sake of "looking good" to the West (your words) is not one of Ataturk's values. Ataturk was fiercely opposed to western imperialism, unlike the fake Kemalists in Turkey.

I agree, in the past Turkey made decisions to keep the good relation with the west, but luckily the east and far east in particular has taken big steps into the 21st century.

In the past everyone wanted to trade with the west, and they enjoyed it and squeezed the lemon so to speak, but now there are opportunities everywhere.

Saying yes to the missile shield is not a logical choice. Because that would just be sad. I believe the government will do the right thing, and they'll hold true to the values of our founding father.
 
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Turkiye is an interesting country --the gateway between Asia and Europe; east and west.

They have to play a very fine balancing game between maintaining traditional ties with the west but also positioning itself to gain from trade with countries and/or regimes that the 'west' may perceive as hostile or a threat (e.g. Iran, China, Syria, etc.)

The country has a very dynamic and competitive foreign service, and that is to their advantage. It helps that they have strong leaders, instead of feeble-minded self-serving flip-floppers.

Turks (on the street especially) will not react kindly to black-mail and threats such as this time and time again brought up issue of ''genocide''

it's the only 'card' that the Armenians have; they keep recycling it over and over again over the years....I think it's very pompous and stupid of certain mischievous elements in US policy & political circles to cash in on this opportunity to bully Turkiye. This isn't what allies do.

Some may argue what Turkiye is doing isn't what allies do (not giving a route to invade Iraq, dealing with Iran, etc.). But then again, I think NATO philosophically and in principle, is on the decline. Even many Americans are of this opinion. Look at the French (also NATO) --they are selling Mistral assault ships to the Russians.

If Turkey allows an ABM system on its border, it will clearly be a ''signal'' to Iran. Turkey and Iran have commercial interests; they have security interests (against Kurdish seperatists); they are NEIGBHOURS.

If Turkiye is against creating enemies or foes; if they are against going contrary to their national interests, then what is their crime?

It's time that the West learns to stop seeing everything through one narrow, self-serving prizm! Respect others' political interests and needs without bullying or arm-twisting cheap tactics.
 
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As a matter of fact, doing everything for the sake of "looking good" to the West (your words) is not one of Ataturk's values. Ataturk was fiercely opposed to western imperialism, unlike the fake Kemalists in Turkey. Ataturk wanted a Turkish-Islamic union by the way. So do I and every rational person would.

T.C. is lucky indeed to have had a strong nation-building leader like Ataturk who laid the foundations for the state.

His vision and ideas of early 20th century are still applicable even today. I don't think the country would be what it is without a leader like him.

He was a real nationalist.
 
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I agree, in the past Turkey made decisions to keep the good relation with the west, but luckily the east and far east in particular has taken big steps into the 21st century.

In the past everyone wanted to trade with the west, and they enjoyed it and squeezed the lemon so to speak, but now there are opportunities everywhere.

Saying yes to the missile shield is not a logical choice. Because that would just be sad. I believe the government will do the right thing, and they'll hold true to the values of our founding father.
The problem is that if you oppose any western policy, you are immediately labled as someone who is "undemocratic" or an "extremist" or worse. In order to avoid being labled as such, you simply have to follow western orders and obey your masters, it seems. Forgive me for having issues with this mindset.
 
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The problem is that if you oppose any western policy, you are immediately labled as someone who is "undemocratic" or an "extremist" or worse. In order to avoid being labled as such, you simply have to follow western orders and obey your masters, it seems. Forgive me for having issues with this mindset.
Nonsense. France for example did not support war in Iraq, but no one said they are not democratic or extremist.
 
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As a matter of fact, doing everything for the sake of "looking good" to the West (your words) is not one of Ataturk's values. Ataturk was fiercely opposed to western imperialism, unlike the fake Kemalists in Turkey. Ataturk wanted a Turkish-Islamic union by the way. So do I and every rational person would.

The Kemalists in Todays Turkey do also oppose western Imperialism, but they prefer a more smarter Way than the Islamists do it ! The Former Goverments before AKP which made a pro-american Policy were often led by Right Wing Parties, which I can not consider as Kemalists. In my Eyes Mesut Yilmaz, Turgut Özal, Tansu Ciller and even Süleyman Demirel can not be considere'd as Kemalists, they were Leaders of right Wing Parties.

A another big Problem why turkish Parties lacks on credibillity is the issue that the Parties have no internal Democracy, their Succes rely on the Leader not on the Party's Programm !
 
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What a surprise!
Yep, you cant bribe people before elections, ban youtube and then claim you are super duper democratic.

Ataturk wanted a Turkish-Islamic union by the way.
I wonder why Ataturk changed fonts from Arabic to Latin then? :eek:
 
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The problem is that if you oppose any western policy, you are immediately labled as someone who is "undemocratic" or an "extremist" or worse. In order to avoid being labled as such, you simply have to follow western orders and obey your masters, it seems. Forgive me for having issues with this mindset.

You don't get it. I am not saying we need to support everything the western powers propose. I am saying we shouldn't make idiotic choices for ideological purposes (We opposed using Turkey has staging ground for the Iraq invasion which i supported since that had a risk of destabilizing the Kurds). Why are we trying to stick it to Washington and annoy NATO powers now ? You know how dependent we are on western powers for our economy. Almost our whole exporting goes to Europe and most of our arms also come from "western powers" Why is it this administration has to go and complicate things for the sake of trying to look tough.

We are playing dangerous games here. It doesn't take much to calculate risks of what will happen if we continue with this attitude of brushing off the west.
 
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We are playing dangerous games here. It doesn't take much to calculate risks of what will happen if we continue with this attitude of brushing off the west.

Don't forget Greece is Member of NATO and also Bulgaria which have a large turkish Minority. Turkey Rely on the West to protect it's own National interests, as a non - NATO Member Turkey can not act against Greece when it extends it's terretorial Waters up to 12 Miles. If Turkey act against Grecce, Turkey have not only to Deal with greece alone, also Uncle Sam !
 
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Ataturk was also an "Islamist" (whatever that means), he wanted a Turkish-Islamic union.

Wow it seems you the outsider here that needs education. Ataturk was never islamic. He opposed everything the Sultan was.

I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men.

The AKP is against what Ataturk stands for. You ever go and look at Erdogan's speeches ? He never mentions Ataturk anywhere he is against this nations founder.
 
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Yep, you cant bribe people before elections, ban youtube and then claim you are super duper democratic.

You are talking about corrupt US elections, right? Do you know how things work over there?

I wonder why Ataturk changed fonts from Arabic to Latin then? :eek:

They are not related. A union doesn't mean having no culture and language of your own. Ataturk himself said he wanted the Turkic and Islamic world to unite, meaning very close cooperation in all fields. I guess only the western world has the right to create prosperity and become a powerful player through economic interdependence and cooperation. It's forbidden for Muslim countries.
 
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Editor's note: The writer is a Turkish-American citizen and a tenured academic. He submitted this column to the Investigative Project on Terrorism to express his frustration over Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's movement away from the West and toward Islamist influence. That includes his work with Iranian President Mahmud Ahmadinejad to avoid sanctions over Iran's nuclear program and Erdoğan's aggressive leadership on the recent flotilla designed at breaking the blockade on Gaza.


Read more at: An Open Letter to Mr. Recep Tayyip Erdo?an :: The Investigative Project on Terrorism




Congratulations, Mr. Prime Minister. You have accomplished in eight years what no other contemporary Turkish politician could achieve. You have successfully entered the final stages in your efforts to transform Atatürk's Turkey into an Arab-style Islamist dictatorship. Some people had warned the world 20 years ago about the likely Islamist outcome of the September 12, 1980 military coup—a momentous point in Turkey's history that "masterfully crushed" the Turkish left. They were right. You are here. Today.

How proud you must feel. After all your hard work, some of the Islamist Turks that you encouraged to sail to Gaza have been killed by the Israeli Defense Forces. You and your fellow Islamists have been celebrating this like nothing I can recall. You have immediately declared them as şehitler (shuheda, the martyrs). With this Arab-style "martyrdom" discourse, you have surely strengthened your image in the entire Arab world and among the Ahmadinejad followers in Iran. Not surprisingly, you have even managed to nourish most of your citizens' anti-Jewish and anti-American sentiments. Your fellow Turkish Islamists, the great majority of the Turkish liberals, and, unfortunately, the many manipulated but otherwise ordinary, beautiful, innocent Muslims joined you and your not-so-strategically-deep brothers.

Congratulations on your jihadist "victory" over the "evil" Israel and the West. By the way, Mr. Erdoğan, instead of sending others to a certain death, would you ever consider yourself becoming a martyr on Allah's path? I mean, the real thing—in the language you understand —al-jihad fi sebili'llah? Although it might be much more painful than preaching and practicing political Islam, would you ever consider it?

Your partner Bülent Yıldırım's Islamist ship embarked toward Gaza amidst the crowds shouting "Allahu Akbar!" "Remember the Battle of Khaybar, O Jews! The Army of Muhammad will return!" You know, Mr. Erdoğan, that the IHH (İnsan Hak ve Hürriyetleri ve İnsanî Yardım Vakfı, the Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief) is not just a "humanitarian organization." Their Islamist vessel was not a pleasure cruise ship. Most of its passengers had a jihadist, political mission, and they have accomplished it.

Your Islamist government declared the 17-year old high school student Furkan Doğan as "martyr." He wrote the following in his diary on the Mavi Marmara before the confrontation with the IDF: "The last hours towards the 'sweet juice of martyrdom'… Is there anything more beautiful than this? If there is, it is for sure my mother… But I am not sure about that either… Comparing the two is very difficult for me…"

Mr. Prime Minister, thanks to solely the vision and project of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, despite you and the vicious ideology you have been practicing, the Republic of Turkey has world-class medical professionals to assist you in interpreting this Jihadist condition.

Now the world is hearing evidence that the IHH has connections to Hamas, Hezbollah, IBDA-C, and al-Qaida. I know you have recently declared that "Hamas is not a terrorist organization." Will you also join the millions of Islamists throughout the world and pronounce publically that "al-Qaida is not a terrorist organization"? About a year ago, your Islamist brother Bülent Yıldırım delivered a jihadist speech in Gaza to tens of thousands of Hamas supporters declaring Israel, the United States and England as "terrorist countries." Yıldırım addressed the Hamas supporters as "the children of paradise." He openly offered the entire population of Istanbul to come to Gaza to "dive into the path of the bombs." And he added: "What can my enemy do to me? I am carrying paradise in my heart. My being killed is nothing but martyrdom!"

Please Mr. Erdoğan, please do not listen to your Islamist brother's advice. Do not send the 13 million people of Istanbul to be "martyred" in Gaza for the love of Hamas.

After the flotilla incident, thousands of your citizens chanted anti-Jewish slogans and called for the Turkish army's deployment to Gaza. Mr. Erdoğan, I am sure it is a tough call for you. After all, you and your dark, mafia-like Islamist forces have already declared the Turkish army itself as "the enemy of Islam." Many honorable members of the Turkish Armed Forces have been ******* in Turkish jails thanks to your so-called "Ergenekon" trials. Through the Ergenekon pretext, you have managed to declare many high-ranking officers of your own army, hundreds of Kemalist journalists, university professors, rectors, and many other intellectuals as "terrorists."

If Hamas is not a terrorist organization, I've got another question for you, Mr. Erdoğan: What if some countries start deploying "humanitarian aid ships" to the PKK in Turkey tomorrow? What if they argue that the PKK is not a terrorist organization? Regardless of what your "strategically deep" Islamist brothers might advise you, let me tell you, Mr. Erdoğan, what I really think: Both Hamas and the PKK are blood-thirsty terrorist organizations that the civilized world must destroy, and any kind of "help" to those organizations should be considered a crime against humanity.

Mr. Erdoğan, do you even care about the ordinary, normal Muslims of your own country and of the world? If you do, then why have you successfully established such frightening friendships and contacts with some of the most dangerous and brutal dictators of the so-called Islamic world? I know your honor is very valuable to you and sensitive. How does your honor handle and justify extending official invitations to the cruel Islamist dictator Ahmadinejad to Turkey? As the Prime Minister of Turkey, what honor is there in fulfilling his holy request not to have to visit Atatürk's mausoleum in Ankara? What will you eventually do with the dictator's enriched uranium in Turkey? Will you join him by declaring "now Turkey needs nuclear energy, too"?

No, Mr. Erdoğan, neither Iran nor Turkey needs nuclear weapons developed under the guise of peaceful energy needs. Both of these countries need genuine democracies, freedoms, and liberation from Islamism. The world does not believe in such nuke-seeking Islamist lies. Even the Islamists themselves do not believe their own lies. It is a deception, and you know it very well. How does it feel, Mr. Erdoğan, when you give hugs and kisses to the terrorist Muammar al-Gaddafi of Libya? How does your honor justify it? When was the last time, Mr. Erdoğan, that an honorable Turkish leader bowed in front of the appalling dictators of Saudi Arabia, the main source of Islamist terror throughout the world? How does your honor handle it? Last but not least, how do you sleep at night, Mr. Erdoğan, when you officially invite the genocidal maniac Omar al-Bashir to Turkey? He is responsible for butchering hundreds of thousands of Muslims. Did it ever occur to you to send some "humanitarian ships" to Sudan?

When it comes to demanding more freedom for Islamism, you talk big, Mr. Erdoğan, by defending and using democracy. In reality, you have a conveniently narrow understanding of the concept of democracy. During your long single-party dictatorship, your citizens cannot even talk on their phones freely: they fear they are being constantly monitored and recorded. Anyone who dares to criticize you and your radical views might find himself or herself in jail the following week. You have, Mr. Erdoğan, created an Arab-style regime of oppression. You have turned Atatürk's Turkey into a Republic of Fear.

Mr. Erdoğan, you and your partners in Islamism have been leading Atatürk's Republic of Turkey back into medieval darkness, and you have been doing this under the pretext of democracy and the so-called "alliance of civilizations." Iranian, Arab, Sudanese, and other Islamist dictators have no business referring to their shameful crimes against humanity as "civilization," and you should leave Turkey and Turkish Islam alone. You and your dangerous ambitions have no right to put Atatürk's Turkey into such a position.

Turkey is not and should not be the new Ottoman Empire of the region. Do not try to implement a radical Turkish foreign policy based heavily on the post 9/11 universal Islamism. Such grandiose idealism serves only to help Osama bin Laden's mission to destroy our world. Mr. Prime Minister, the Ottoman Empire is gone. If you have been dreaming that the Ottomans were all about your ideology's perception of "Islam," you are mistaken. You are a Prime Minister, I am a scholar. Mister Erdoğan, based on what you have been reading so far, you might think that I am some sort of "an enemy of Islam" (a dismissive response aimed at critics all over the "Muslim world" especially since 9/11). I am a proud Muslim, Mr. Erdoğan, and I refuse to let leaders like you hijack my religion for their deplorable political "gains."

The Palestinian, Hamas, Iranian, Hezbollah, and many other Islamist "causes" are not—and should never be—Turkish causes. There was a time, Mr. Erdoğan, you had proudly proclaimed: "Democracy is a streetcar. We will ride on it until we reach our destination, then get off!" Please tell the world, Mr. Erdoğan, if you have reached your final destination yet, so we can all get ready for where you may be headed next.


Read more at: An Open Letter to Mr. Recep Tayyip Erdo?an :: The Investigative Project on Terrorism
 
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You don't get it. I am not saying we need to support everything the western powers propose. I am saying we shouldn't make idiotic choices for ideological purposes (We opposed using Turkey has staging ground for the Iraq invasion which i supported since that had a risk of destabilizing the Kurds). Why are we trying to stick it to Washington and annoy NATO powers now ? You know how dependent we are on western powers for our economy. Almost our whole exporting goes to Europe and most of our arms also come from "western powers" Why is it this administration has to go and complicate things for the sake of trying to look tough.

We are playing dangerous games here. It doesn't take much to calculate risks of what will happen if we continue with this attitude of brushing off the west.
Dependence on just West, and ignoring your economic interests for the sake of so called "Western World" just doesn't work today thanks to developing markets of China and Russia. As the economic hub of European Union began to shed, Turkey had to consider new options for stable growth rates. Hence the new foreign policy of Turkey; zero problems with neighbours are not just for our security, it's mostly economy oriented.

And I don't believe the idea of us trying to annoy USA or our NATO partners. Change probably comes from Turkey's new grasp of what ending of Cold War meant.

Lastly, I hope this new missile system will be stationed in Turkey under the NATO umbrella. As I said this previously in another post, you don't know what will happen tomorrow, it's better to get a precaution than to be sorry.
 
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