US plays 'genocide' card to pressure Turkey on NATO missile system

[Saithan]

There are a lot of things to consider here...

The economic emerging turkey doesn't want to destabilize the region further by accepting the US view on its neighbors. By this I am refering to the US regarding iran as an enemy.

Turkeys active foreign politics and the diplomatic stance with its neighbors makes it capable of deciding for her self. Previously in the past Turkey accepted other western nations, mainly the US' view, and went along.

But that isn't the case anymore, I recall reading an article some time ago, that pointed out that Turkey wasn't a sidekick without an opinion anymore and this was thanks to the active foreign policy.

I believe that the active middle east policy lead by Turkey has gained her a lot of attention, both good and some bad, but I believe that a peaceful coexistens is the means to stabilize the ties. Unfortunately Israel is probably an exception here because of its politics.

My point is that "Western" countries have an inbred fear in them and the more you keep reminding them about it, the more afraid they become. To be honest I can't see why Iran who doesn't seem to have a single friend in the region would want to start a war.

They want to gain technology to be selfsufficient, and that is fair enough, fossil fuel won't last forever, and who will then help them, once it runs out. And the west won't help them with technology as long as they hold on to their culture and religion.

Some of it applies to Turkey as well, currently 73% of the energy consumed in Turkey is imported, fossil, gas you name it. By tending for nuclear power plants she' aiming to lower the dependency on foreign ressources.

Economy is a weapon, energy is a weapon, and military is... well you probably get the picture.

Everything is being used as a means to an end. We can lobby against the genocide, but is it worth it, let the US play that card once it's gone. it's gone.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

I guess we should accept the missiles.Or they can make more pressure on us.And i don't understand why we don't want to Take the missiles.

Why on earth should we serve western imperialism and hegemony? Give me one reason, just one. Are they our masters?

 

[Hasbara Buster]

I am sure they support PKK under the table.

How could you even doubt?

Leaked documents show US military sees PKK as ‘freedom fighters’

Leaked documents show US military sees PKK as ?freedom fighters?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

well, this is one reason why anti American sentiment is rising among some nationalist Turks.....

2 main mistakes U.S. made with their fellow NATO ally:


1.) mistakenly (?) detaining Turkish troops who were conducting anti terrorist mil-ops in Northern Iraq kurdish region --blind-folding them etc.

2.) allowing the Armenian lobby in DC to use politicians (instead of historians) to keep pushing for '''genocide'' claims against Turkiye

every 2 or 3 years, armenians seem to complain about the issue; very bizarre people


why use politicians, why not fund a research study or fact finding mission using HISTORIANS....

every time the Armenians try, they fail at it; they even tried back in 2007 under previous American administration

 

[Jigs]

There are a lot of things to consider here...

The economic emerging turkey doesn't want to destabilize the region further by accepting the US view on its neighbors. By this I am refering to the US regarding iran as an enemy.

Turkeys active foreign politics and the diplomatic stance with its neighbors makes it capable of deciding for her self. Previously in the past Turkey accepted other western nations, mainly the US' view, and went along.

But that isn't the case anymore, I recall reading an article some time ago, that pointed out that Turkey wasn't a sidekick without an opinion anymore and this was thanks to the active foreign policy.

I believe that the active middle east policy lead by Turkey has gained her a lot of attention, both good and some bad, but I believe that a peaceful coexistens is the means to stabilize the ties. Unfortunately Israel is probably an exception here because of its politics.

My point is that "Western" countries have an inbred fear in them and the more you keep reminding them about it, the more afraid they become. To be honest I can't see why Iran who doesn't seem to have a single friend in the region would want to start a war.

They want to gain technology to be selfsufficient, and that is fair enough, fossil fuel won't last forever, and who will then help them, once it runs out. And the west won't help them with technology as long as they hold on to their culture and religion.

Some of it applies to Turkey as well, currently 73% of the energy consumed in Turkey is imported, fossil, gas you name it. By tending for nuclear power plants she' aiming to lower the dependency on foreign ressources.

Economy is a weapon, energy is a weapon, and military is... well you probably get the picture.

Everything is being used as a means to an end. We can lobby against the genocide, but is it worth it, let the US play that card once it's gone. it's gone.

That is not what Iran is doing though. For example when we signed our nuclear plant deals with the Russians (and currently in the works) with the South Koreans. No one made any fuss about it because we made our intentions clear. We would have these companies build nuclear power plants. Iran on the other hand doesn't make anything clear. No one knows why so much uranium is being enriched to 20 percent. You don't need 3,000kilograms of it for medical research. In fact you don't need to enrich anything since Russia already does that for Iran to a degree. U.S. and other nations already offered Iran medical isotopes and their administration said no.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

That is not what Iran is doing though. For example when we signed our nuclear plant deals with the Russians (and currently in the works) with the South Koreans. No one made any fuss about it because we made our intentions clear. We would have these companies build nuclear power plants. Iran on the other hand doesn't make anything clear. No one knows why so much uranium is being enriched to 20 percent. You don't need 3,000kilograms of it for medical research. In fact you don't need to enrich anything since Russia already does that for Iran to a degree. U.S. and other nations already offered Iran medical isotopes and their administration said no.

Did you read this in Jew York Times?

 

[damm1t]

That is not what Iran is doing though. For example when we signed our nuclear plant deals with the Russians (and currently in the works) with the South Koreans. No one made any fuss about it because we made our intentions clear. We would have these companies build nuclear power plants. Iran on the other hand doesn't make anything clear. No one knows why so much uranium is being enriched to 20 percent. You don't need 3,000kilograms of it for medical research. In fact you don't need to enrich anything since Russia already does that for Iran to a degree. U.S. and other nations already offered Iran medical isotopes and their administration said no.

So, you mean that if you are not a major power, you can't enrich uranium or study on nukes and can't develop new nuclear technologies? The westerners determine the lines and you play in that circle? Sorry dude i am not an Iran fan but i am not agree with you here. Even Israel can have nukes but Iran, Turkey cant? No way ..

 

[Jigs]

So, you mean that if you are not a major power, you can't enrich uranium or study on nukes and can't develop new nuclear technologies? The westerners determine the lines and you play in that circle? Sorry dude i am not an Iran fan but i am not agree with you here. Even Israel can have nukes but Iran, Turkey cant? No way ..

You have a alot to learn about politics. There is also something called the NPT. Which Turkey and Iran are both signatories of. Israel has never signed the NPT nor have they ever acknowledge they have nuclear weapons. So they have leverage in this situation and influence in other states nuclear affairs.

Article I: Each nuclear-weapons state (NWS) undertakes not to transfer, to any recipient, nuclear weapons, or other nuclear explosive devices, and not to assist any non-nuclear weapon state to manufacture or acquire such weapons or devices.

Article II: Each non-NWS party undertakes not to receive, from any source, nuclear weapons, or other nuclear explosive devices; not to manufacture or acquire such weapons or devices; and not to receive any assistance in their manufacture.

Article III: Each non-NWS party undertakes to conclude an agreement with the IAEA for the application of its safeguards to all nuclear material in all of the state's peaceful nuclear activities and to prevent diversion of such material to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices.

Article IV: 1. Nothing in this Treaty shall be interpreted as affecting the inalienable right of all the Parties to the Treaty to develop research, production and use of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes without discrimination and in conformity with Articles I and II of this Treaty.

2. All the Parties to the Treaty undertake to facilitate, and have the right to participate in, the fullest possible exchange of equipment, materials and scientific and technological information for the peaceful uses of nuclear energy. Parties to the Treaty in a position to do so shall also co-operate in contributing alone or together with other States or international organizations to the further development of the applications of nuclear energy for peaceful purposes, especially in the territories of non-nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty, with due consideration for the needs of the developing areas of the world.

Article VI. The states undertake to pursue "negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament", and towards a "Treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control".

 

[damm1t]

You have a alot to learn about politics. There is also something called the NPT. Which Turkey and Iran are both signatories of. Israel has never signed the NPT nor have they ever acknowledge they have nuclear weapons. So they have leverage in this situation and influence in other states nuclear affairs.

Thanks for the info Mr.Baradei but i already know the treaty.
I thought that everybody can understand easily what im trying to tell, but ok i make it easier for you.

Iran has declared that nuclear researchs will be for peacefull purposes, right? So if you are not a major power you can't do anything with nuke? As i know none of intelligence agencies and IAEA couldn't find a single proof of Iran's nuclear researchs are out of purposes or for weapons. Only assumptions..
Beside this, Israel's nuclear power is not secret, but noone in the world force it to sign the treaty.

According to Turkey's Radikal

And nobody brings this issue to the agenda but Turkey. Don't you think its double-standart?
Here what i am trying to do is criticize this cast of mind.

You don't need 3,000kilograms of it for medical research. In fact you don't need to enrich anything since Russia already does that for Iran to a degree.

Can't Iran study on nuke?
Yes these are all politics, but hopefully you understood better where i pointed now.
As i said before, i am not an Iran fan but i support their nuclear research program as an independent country.
Regards

 

[Saithan]

I am afraid that some turks seem to be more western minded than others. They lap up the fears of the west quickly.

Of course growing up in the US, Denmark, UK and other places does leave some traces on how we think, afterall the school systems are designed to make you think in a certain way.

However turkish language schools and turkish news and just general access to media helps to a certain degree, but once you lose your analytic mind and start accepting the wests arguments (no matter how flawed it is), you start thinking like them.

Just to make it easier make a SWOT analysis, or a Boston model. which could be interesting to be honest.

 

[Jigs]

Thanks for the info Mr.Baradei but i already know the treaty.
I thought that everybody can understand easily what im trying to tell, but ok i make it easier for you.

Iran has declared that nuclear researchs will be for peacefull purposes, right? So if you are not a major power you can't do anything with nuke? As i know none of intelligence agencies and IAEA couldn't find a single proof of Iran's nuclear researchs are out of purposes or for weapons. Only assumptions..
Beside this, Israel's nuclear power is not secret, but noone in the world force it to sign the treaty.

According to Turkey's Radikal

And nobody brings this issue to the agenda but Turkey. Don't you think its double-standart?
Here what i am trying to do is criticize this cast of mind. Can't Iran study on nuke?
Yes these are all politics, but hopefully you understood better where i pointed now.
As i said before, i am not an Iran fan but i support their nuclear research program as an independent country.
Regards

Of course their are double standards. Nothing is fair but you do the best you can for your country. You weigh both sides and decide. Turkey can make a negative impact on NATO and the U.S. for the sake of looking good to Iran or can make the logical choice and implement this shield. Sadly this government in place is disgrace to values of our founder who always had a policy of keeping good relations with western powers.

 

[Jigs]

I am afraid that some turks seem to be more western minded than others. They lap up the fears of the west quickly.

Of course growing up in the US, Denmark, UK and other places does leave some traces on how we think, afterall the school systems are designed to make you think in a certain way.

However turkish language schools and turkish news and just general access to media helps to a certain degree, but once you lose your analytic mind and start accepting the wests arguments (no matter how flawed it is), you start thinking like them.

Just to make it easier make a SWOT analysis, or a Boston model. which could be interesting to be honest.

Go through my posts and you will see i have criticized western powers many times. Yet i don't let that interfere with logical judgment on matters such as these.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

well, this is one reason why anti American sentiment is rising among some nationalist Turks.....

2 main mistakes U.S. made with their fellow NATO ally:


1.) mistakenly (?) detaining Turkish troops who were conducting anti terrorist mil-ops in Northern Iraq kurdish region --blind-folding them etc.

2.) allowing the Armenian lobby in DC to use politicians (instead of historians) to keep pushing for '''genocide'' claims against Turkiye

every 2 or 3 years, armenians seem to complain about the issue; very bizarre people


why use politicians, why not fund a research study or fact finding mission using HISTORIANS....

every time the Armenians try, they fail at it; they even tried back in 2007 under previous American administration

From what I have gathered after discussing with a senior journalist of an international newspaper is that the Turks have offered to open all the records and documentation from the time that the Armenians have accused them of this genocide... but the Armenians are refusing this... If anything the Armenians were Ottoman citizens and their killing to such an extent as the Armenians claim would have at least been recorded by the Turks who were meticulous record keepers...

 

[Hasbara Buster]

I am afraid that some turks seem to be more western minded than others. They lap up the fears of the west quickly.

Of course growing up in the US, Denmark, UK and other places does leave some traces on how we think, afterall the school systems are designed to make you think in a certain way.

However turkish language schools and turkish news and just general access to media helps to a certain degree, but once you lose your analytic mind and start accepting the wests arguments (no matter how flawed it is), you start thinking like them.

Just to make it easier make a SWOT analysis, or a Boston model. which could be interesting to be honest.

I agree, The US and Western medias are so incredibly dominant that it is hard to get independent voices heard.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Turkey can make a negative impact on NATO and the U.S. for the sake of looking good to Iran or can make the logical choice and implement this shield. Sadly this government in place is disgrace to values of our founder who always had a policy of keeping good relations with western powers.

As a matter of fact, doing everything for the sake of "looking good" to the West (your words) is not one of Ataturk's values. Ataturk was fiercely opposed to western imperialism, unlike the fake Kemalists in Turkey. Ataturk wanted a Turkish-Islamic union by the way. So do I and every rational person would.