US officials in Turkey to promise delivery of F-35 If Turkey cancel S-400

[500]

Israel has no even plans but Turkey successfully tested first indigenous turboshaft engine ( only the US,Russia,China,France,Uk,Japan,Canada and Turkey )

We we need to spend effort when US sells us best engines in the world?

Syria shot down Turkish unarmed and defenceless RF-4 reconnaissance Jet
but Syria shot down Israeli F-16 some of the world’s most advanced fighter fitted with Israeli tech

So recon jet flying near Syrian territory did not see that it was locked down.

and Turkey shot down Syrian MIG-23 Fighter Jet and MI-17 Helicopter

Shooting down a fighter which is not expecting the attack is not a big deal. You could not destroy the SAM which shot down your plane. We did it in less than a hour.

S-400 can destroy all Israeli Fighter Jets , F-16 or F-35 it doesnt matter

Once it fires it will be destroyed.

and Your old technology DELILAH Cruise Missile can be easly destroyed by Turkish KORKUT 35mm SPAAG and
HISAR-A and HISAR-O latest technology air defense systems

What makes u think that ur Hisar or whatever will be more effective than Russian Pantsir C1 and Buk M2? Russia has 70 years experience in SAM u have none.

Russia's S-400 Is way more dangerous than you think ,,

120km The 9M96E2 Missile is one of the jewels of the S-400 system. It flies at Mach 15
it can engage targets as low as 5 meters off the ground, and it can maneuver pulling up to 20 Gs designed to knock out penetrating aircraft and missiles flying “off the deck” or just above ground and neutralize cruise missiles

Obviously u suffer from schizophrenia. On one side you believe that modernized 40 year old Soviet system is some ultimate uber weapon. On the other hand you dismiss the effectiveness of brand new Russian Pantsir.

And again u use bizarre numbers.

9M96E2 speed is 900-1000 m/s which is 2.7-3 Mach. Where from u get 15 Mach? LOl

http://pvo.guns.ru/book/fakel/new_gen.htm

S-400 has same limitations as other SAMs: it is limited to LOS, it is very large and poorly mobile. Nowadays when standoff missiles are very cheap and common such a large systems are nothing but a prey. Actually already in 1982 they were noting but a prey

Turkey has alternatives if US blocks delivery of F-35 jets

There is no alternative.

 

[cabatli_53]

Actually already in 1982 they were noting but a prey

That's true ! S-400 is the derivative of older generation Soviet missiles but What about first Patriot missiles that Israel operates upgraded PAC-3 variant at present ?

Design: 1969
First Production: 1976
Operational: 1981

I think Approaching to this subject which is about technological superiority of strategic SAM systems with using "old, obsolete" card to underestimate S-400 against Patriots is not a proper way for your assessment.

What makes u think that ur Hisar or whatever will be more effective

Yes, It is for sure that Hisar family will be much more effective than any system which is operational on market at present because They will be national systems whose algorithms, software, radar, seekers and other characteristics are designed/developed by Turkish engineers. EW resistance of those missiles and key information will just be known by Turks so Enemy counter-measure systems won't make much differences in conflict zone. The limits of mysterious Hisar family will be solely determined by the intelligence of Turkish engineers and When It is required, We will upgrade them to make them more effective against new threats. We will not be forced to purchase downgraded systems anymore that have many limitation/kill-switches in crisis times. No country can use their "junks" against Turkiye as political pressure tool to gain politic and economical benefits. Those factors make Hisar family superior to anything Turkiye may purchase from abroad.

 

[MMM-E]

We we need to spend effort when US sells us best engines in the world?

the US doesnt allow Israel to develop Fighter Jet , Israel is dependent on the US

on the other hand Turkey develops its own weapons including 5th gen Jet Fighter , stealth UCAV , Attack and Utility Helicopters , Corvette , Frigate , Destroyer , Submarine and of course Turboshaft,Turbojet,Turbofan engines

Shooting down a fighter which is not expecting the attack is not a big deal. You could not destroy the SAM which shot down your plane. We did it in less than a hour.

Turkey can destroy all Syria , not only trash air defense systems
but Turkey is alone , on the other hand Russia-Iran protects Syria and The US protects Israel

attack on Syria that means attack on Russia and Iran ,,, without American protection Israel is nothing , Syria,Iran,Russia would rape tiny Israel but The US protects Israel

Syrian Mig-23 fighter jet entered the airspace over southern Turkey and one of our F-16 on patrol shot down Syrian Mig-23 in line with the rules of engagement

What makes u think that ur Hisar or whatever will be more effective than Russian Pantsir C1 and Buk M2? Russia has 70 years experience in SAM u have none.

SOM air launched Cruise Missile is the first indigenous Cruise Missile of Turkey ( in service since 2012 )
but SOM Cruise Missile is one of the best Cruise Missile in the world

-- precision strike capability against both land or sea targets
-- network enabled capability ( only a few country in the world )
-- Stealthy and precise
-- Terrain hugging and Sea skimming
-- Imaging Infrared Seeker
-- INS / GPS
-- Terrain Referenced Navigation
-- Image Based Navigation
-- Automatic Target Recognition
-- mach 0,94 speed
-- 300 km range with French TRI40 engine ( but 800km range with indigenous engine )


Turkish SOM air launched Cruise Missile is so superior to Israeli POPOYE and DELILAH air launched Cruise Missiles

There is no alternative

Chinese FC-31 stealth Fighter Jet is alternative to F35 ( Pakistan and Turkey can buy Chinese FC-31 stealth Fighter Jet ) ..... ( China has J20 and J31 stealth Fighter Jet projects )

so Russia and China also develops latest technology weapons alternative to American weapons

the best example is Russian S400 instead of American PATRIOT for the Turkish Armed Forces

 

[500]

That's true ! S-400 is the derivative of older generation Soviet missiles but What about first Patriot missiles that Israel operates upgraded PAC-3 variant at present ?

Design: 1969
First Production: 1976
Operational: 1981

I think Approaching to this subject which is about technological superiority of strategic SAM systems with using "old, obsolete" card to underestimate S-400 against Patriots is not a proper way for your assessment.

Israel does not plan upgrading Patriots and will phase them out in near future.

Yes, It is for sure that Hisar family will be much more effective than any system which is operational on market at present because They will be national systems whose algorithms, software, radar, seekers and other characteristics are designed/developed by Turkish engineers. EW resistance of those missiles and key information will just be known by Turks so Enemy counter-measure systems won't make much differences in conflict zone. The limits of mysterious Hisar family will be solely determined by the intelligence of Turkish engineers and When It is required, We will upgrade them to make them more effective against new threats. We will not be forced to purchase downgraded systems anymore that have many limitation/kill-switches in crisis times. No country can use their "junks" as political pressure tool against Turks to gain politic and economical benefits. Those factors make Hisar family superior to anything Turkiye may purchase from abroad.

It uses IIR seeker which is not as good as ARH.

the US doesnt allow Israel to develop Fighter Jet , Israel is dependent on the US

on the other hand Turkey develops its own weapons including 5th gen Jet Fighter , stealth UCAV , Attack and Utility Helicopters , Corvette , Frigate , Destroyer , Submarine and of course Turboshaft,Turbojet,Turbofan engines

We will never build a jet equal to F-35. Even much much larger and experienced in jets countries like France and Russia can't. Its much more effective to concentrate on things we do best instead trying to do everything.

Turkey can destroy all Syria , not only trash air defense systems
but Turkey is alone , on the other hand Russia-Iran protects Syria and The US protects Israel

So why u did not destroy the air defence which attacked ur aicraft? Fact is that Turkey has no experience at all in SEAD/DEAD.

Turkish SOM air launched Cruise Missile is so superior to Israeli POPOYE and DELILAH air launched Cruise Missiles

They are not really in same category. Also Popeye and Delilah have a perfect combat record vs, the most modern air defenses in the world. BTW Delilah uses home made turbo jet engine.

Chinese FC-31 stealth Fighter Jet is alternative to F35 ( Pakistan and Turkey can buy Chinese FC-31 stealth Fighter Jet ) ..... ( China has J20 and J31 stealth Fighter Jet projects )

so Russia and China also develops latest technology weapons alternative to American weapons

the best example is Russian S400 instead of American PATRIOT for the Turkish Armed Forces

F-35 is much better.

 

[cabatli_53]

Israel does not plan upgrading Patriots and will phase them out in near future.

This doesn’t change the fact that PAC-3 missiles operated bu Israel, European countries and US, have the same “obsolete” Missile system which was designed in 1960’s. I mean PAC doesn’t have much differences When compared with S series SAM system to point out S-400 as ancient and obsolate.

It uses IIR seeker which is not as good as ARH.

IIR guidance is one of the most lethal guidance system If It is developed with advanced algorithms. Jammimg IIR is more difficult as well but weather conditions effect the performance in terminal phase and IIR seekers require special designs on nose to protect lenses from overheating not to take blurry images during high speeds.

Those are guidance type of Hisar family to enlighten you more about them.

Hisar-A IIR
Hisar-O IIR/RF (two variant)
Hisar-O+ RF
Hisar-G IIR and RF (two variant)
Hisar-G+ IIR and RF( two variant)
Hisar-N RF
Hisar-U RF-IIR hybrit

O, O+ and N variant RF seeker

G variant RF seeker

A and O variant IIR seeker

 

[500]

This doesn’t change the fact that PAC-3 missiles operated bu Israel, European countries and US, have the same “obsolete” Missile system which was designed in 1960’s. I mean PAC doesn’t have much differences When compared with S series SAM system to point out S-400 as ancient and obsolate.

Israel did not buy Patriot Pac3. Actually older Patriot we did not buy either but got for free during Desert Storm. We don't really need them.

IIR guidance is one of the most lethal guidance system If It is developed with advanced algorithms. Jammimg IIR is more difficult as well but weather conditions effect the performance in terminal phase and IIR seekers require special designs on nose to protect lenses from overheating not to take blurry images during high speeds.

IIR has serious downsides compare to ARH It cant measure distance, so it cant predict the impact point and perform the lead collision type of guidance and is forced to do much less effective curve of pursuit method. Plus weather and sun disruption. That's why all advanced systems use ARH which are much much more complex and expensive.

Those are guidance type of Hisar family to enlighten you more about them.

Hisar-A IIR
Hisar-O IIR/RF (two variant)
Hisar-O+ RF
Hisar-G IIR and RF (two variant)
Hisar-G+ IIR and RF( two variant)
Hisar-N RF
Hisar-U RF-IIR hybrit

O, O+ and N variant RF seeker

G variant RF seeker

A and O variant IIR seeker

According to official site both Hisar A and Hisar O have IR seeker. Could not find anything on RF seekers.

http://www.roketsan.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/HISAR-ENG-email.pdf

Obviously if Turkey could develop advanced ARH missiles it would not need neither S-400 nor Patriot.

 

[MMM-E]

I know Israeli Airforce has great technology and dominates the Middle East

-- F-16C/D/I
-- F-15 Strike Eagle
-- and now F-35 with advanced software modifications

-- Gulfstream G550 CAEW equipped with the EL/W-2085 Radar
-- Gulfstream G550 SEMA equipped with the EL/I-3001 Suite

-- Electronic Warfare Pod , POPEYE and DELILAH Cruise Missiles
-- PYTON and DERBY Air to Air Missiles
-- David's Sling A Defense System
-- ARROW-2 and ARROW-3 Ballistic Missile Defense Systems
-- Reconnaissance Satellites for military operations
-- Boeing KC-707 aerial refueling Tanker
-- HERON , EITAN and HERMES UAVs
-- TERRA early warning Radar System




on the other hand domestic capabilities and new technologies are rapidly changing the face of Turkish Air Force

Turkey looks set to have one of the most capable Air Force in the World by 2023


-- CCIP modernized F-16C/D equipped with SPEWS II Electronic Warfare Suite
-- F-35A by 2019 ( 2 F-35A were delivered to TURAF for training Turkish Pilots in the US )

-- Boeing E-7T AEWC in service since 2014
-- Airborne stand off Jammer Aircraft by 2023

-- AGM/88 HARM , AGM/154 JSOW and AGM/84 SLAM-ER
-- SOM Cruise Missile ( land attack / anti ship ) in service since 2012
-- BOZDOGAN and GOKDOGAN Air to Air Missiles
-- Electronic Warfare Pods , KORAL Radar Electronic Warfare System in service since 2015
-- S400 high altitude Air Defense System by 2019
-- HISAR-A low altitude Air Defense System by 2020
-- HISAR-O medium altitude Air Defense System by 2021
-- HISAR-U high altitude Air Defense System by 2023-2025
-- GUMS Ballistic Missile Defense System by 2025

-- GOKTURK1/2/3 Reconnaissance Satellites for military operations in service since 2012
-- Boeing KC-135 aerial refueling Tanker
-- Airbus A400M Strategic Transport Aircraft in service since 2014
-- Bayraktar TB-2 Taktical UCAV in service since 2015
-- ANKA UCAV in service since 2017
-- AKINCI 4,5 tons UCAV by 2020
-- 600+ km EIRS early warning AESA Radar System

So why u did not destroy the air defence which attacked ur aicraft? Fact is that Turkey has no experience at all in SEAD/DEAD.

in 2012 Turkish Armed Forces had 100+ of 500km HARPY Kamikaze Drones with 35kg warhead for SEAD Attack , HARM anti radiotion Missile , AGM-84 SLAM-ER Cruise Missile , 4 GUR class Submarines armed with HARPOON land attack Missile , ADA class stealth Corvette armed with HARPOON land attack Missile , J600T Tactical Ballistic Missile to destroy not only Air Defense Systems but also military Base

but Turkish RF-4 Jet was shot down by a missile fired from the Russian base in Syria
so Russians shot down Turkish RF-4 Jet in 2012
and Russian SU-24 Jet was shot down by Turkish F-16 in 2015

also Turkey shot down Syrian MIG-23 Fighter Jet and MI-17 Helicopter in line with the rules of engagement

 

[Rukarl]

The Turks are funny. They are nothing infront the might of the USA

 

[MMM-E]

The Turks are funny. They are nothing infront the might of the USA

as like Iran ?

 

[Rukarl]

as like Iran ?

You mean the mullah regime ? Yes, they are, like you,nothing infront American might.

The sultan is becoming too big for his boots

 

[MMM-E]

You mean the mullah regime ? Yes, they are, like you,nothing infront American might.

The sultan is becoming too big for his boots

The Sultan's Army took Al Bab and Afrin , the next target is ..... ( everywhere in N.Syria ) who control Pkk/Ypg terrorists ( the US )

 

[Rukarl]

The Sultan's Army took Al Bab and Afrin , the next target is ..... ( everywhere in N.Syria ) who control Pkk/Ypg terrorists ( the US )

You are weak. The Kurds are still kicking your butts.

 

[MMM-E]

You are weak. The Kurds are still kicking your butts.

Vietnamese and Afgans kicked American butts

and We have seen loser terrorist kurds in AFRIN , Afrin city has fallen that means Turks kicked American-Israeli dream

loser Pkk terrorists could not take even 1 cm2 of land from Turkey since 1985 , keep dreaming dream is free

 

[WinterNights]

Vietnamese and Afgans kicked American butts

and We have seen loser terrorist kurds in AFRIN , Afrin city has fallen that means Turks kicked American-Israeli dream

loser Pkk terrorists could not take even 1 cm2 of land from Turkey since 1985 , keep dreaming dream is free

Don't waste your time on that guy. He is a false flag saudi flying Iranian American flag.

 

[Rukarl]

Vietnamese and Afgans kicked American butts

and We have seen loser terrorist kurds in AFRIN , Afrin city has fallen that means Turks kicked American-Israeli dream

loser Pkk terrorists could not take even 1 cm2 of land from Turkey since 1985 , keep dreaming dream is free

You try for decades to solve the Kurdish issue militarily. Everytime you fail. You are weak.

Soon Erdogan currency will be used as toilet paper