US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter may visit India in May to sign $2.5 bn deal

[Skull and Bones]

Block 40 has been out of production for decades

Yes. I just stated my point, even then, foreign acquisition was anywhere near 40-60 million per jet.

 

[uparyupari]

Millimetre wave radar is the biggest plus for apache ..
It will give target coordinates to buddies..

U know BAE hawk model is being followed for tejas productio़n ?

Weapons of USA are the best until one gets sanctioned

108 years ago Sir JC Bose started work on Millimetre waves in 50 GHz range. Do you think we cannot build one today ?

RCI has already developed a millimeter wave (MMW) seeker and that is being built by Indian companies. I am sure one can be built for LCA and integrated with it. AAD and Astra is now using Ka band Seeker which can be built for LCH too.

Apache uses a Ka Band (35 GHz) radar to identify targets and then uses a separate millimetre radar for Hellfire missiles.

This is within our reach if we put in the necessary resources and effort.

US gets F-16 Block 40 aircraft for 15 million, best of luck getting that for the price for India.

That is what G2G deal is all about. India buys the platform for the price the local govt. paid for with 5% more premium.

 

[Abingdonboy]

That is 67.5 Million $ PER HELICOPTER.

Are we CRAZY ?

LCH cost less than 20 million $ per heli.

It is so silly to look at a FMS deal and simply divide the total cost by the number of airframe and think you have figured out the unit cost. The deal includes the cost of training, spares, weapons, setting up of requisite infrastructure in India, simulators etc the price India will pay for each AH-64E won't be all that dissimilar to the US Army.

 

[MadDog]

What do you think of yourself? I already proved that most of your weapons coming as free aid.

Obama proposes over $1 billion civil, military aid to Pakistan - The Times of India
.

Bullcrap, you are posting an old news, other than this aid, Pakistan is buying 15 Viper helecopters, 1000 hellfire missiles and other equipment for $1 billion recently announced,
Potential AH-1Z sale to Pakistan announced as Islamabad tests Chinese competitor - IHS Jane's 360
See its a sale, even the F-16's which we got later on supposedly free of cost, were the ones which we paid for in 1980's and cuz of sanctions in 1990's the planes weren't delivered and they were delivered in the last 5-6 years, other than this Pakistan gets military aid simmilar to Israel and Egypt. They say, India is like an elephant with a brain of an ant, fits on you buddy, with world's 40% malnourished children in India, and world's 1/3 of the poorest impoverished population lives in India, you guys are spending billions on these helicopters, Around 400 million Indians live below poverty line thats, almost twice the population of Pakistan, yet you increase ur defence budget every year at the cost of people, just like North Korea.
Incase you ask for the links for my claims
India has one third of world's poorest, says World Bank - Telegraph
India has 40% of world's malnourished: Expert - The Times of India

 

[Kinetic]

For half a Billion $, those capabilities can be built into the LCH too. Just saying.

Which UAV is the Apache suppose to control and guide ?

Why can't the UAV be controlled and guided from the Ground ? How is this any less advantageous ? In fact guiding UAV from the ground ensures that the Apache pilot is focused on flying his VERY expensive aircraft.

Tell me why Apache cannot be brought down by a hand held missile similar to a Stinger.

What these two videos...

 

[Bornubus]

That is 67.5 Million $ PER HELICOPTER.

Are we CRAZY ?

LCH cost less than 20 million $ per heli.

Among other things it comes with MM wave Fire ctrl Radar which LCH doesnt have plus its a Heavy Gunship while LCH is best suited for high Alt warfare

Additional info


Defence News - Why INDIA needs the APACHE – AH64D LONGBOW?

 

[uparyupari]

It is so silly to look at a FMS deal and simply divide the total cost by the number of airframe and think you have figured out the unit cost. The deal includes the cost of training, spares, weapons, setting up of requisite infrastructure in India, simulators etc the price India will pay for each AH-64E won't be all that dissimilar to the US Army.

Its not silly at all. That is pretty much what that helicopter is going to cost us. All inclusive.

Not to mention it comes with American strings attached which includes restrictions on its use and inspection clause and a Life long maintenance headache and US leverage to backmail us.

What these two videos...

Good Marketing and Propaganda video, but how does it answer my question ?

Among other things it comes with MM wave Fire ctrl Radar which LCH doesnt have plus its a Heavy Gunship while LCH is best suited for high Alt warfare

View attachment 215618

Additional info


Defence News - Why INDIA needs the APACHE – AH64D LONGBOW?

Yes, that is its only advantage, a Ka band search radar and a MM wave radar for missile guidance. However that is something we can mount on the LCH.

How does calling it being a Heavy Gunship, light gunship or a flying cow matter ? That is just a fancy name.

I went through the link. It is a fanboy article that talks about Apache capability. But it says NOTHING about why India needs it

What additional benefit does it bring to the IA and how is it cost effective ?

 

[Suman]

uske liye pocket me kuch hona bhi chahiye

hahaha, hei ek bomb

NEW DELHI:US Defence SecretaryAshton Carteris likely to visit India next month when the two sides are expected to ink the nearly $2.5 billion deal for 22Apacheand 15Chinookheavy-lift helicopters.

Though the final dates for Carter's visit have not been announced, defence sources said the visit will take place in May during which the two sides will discuss ways to enhance defence ties, especially in context of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's 'Make-in-India' initiative.

The Apache and Chinook helicopters deal is likely to be among the pacts that will be inked during the visit, the sources said.

The deal would be presented before the Cabinet Committee on Security for approval soon, they added.

American defence major Boeing, along with the US government, has extended the validity of the price quoted by them for another three months hoping to wrap up the deal soon.

Indian Defence Ministry had last month sought extension of the validity period on its expiry on March 31.

The US firm had in February this year warned of a price hike if India does not finalise the contract soon.

"They (Defence Ministry) kept asking for extensions and we did provide them as and when appropriate. It is not always possible to keep extending because we live in a world where we feel inflationary pressure,"BoeingIndia President Pratyush Kumar had said in a press conference here.
Boeing has extended the price validity for the deal at least twice since cost negotiations concluded in 2013, with the last extension for a period of six months granted in October 2014.

Incidentally, the present Defence Procurement Policy does not allow room for increase in price once a bid has been shortlisted. In the event of the original manufacturer seeking a higher price than the one agreed upon, the tender can be terminated and a fresh one issued, as per defence officials.

The deal for the Apache is a "a hybrid one", with one contract to be signed with Boeing for the helicopter and the other with the US government for its weapons, radars and electronic warfare suites.

The US has been pushing for this contract as it will further bolster American presence in the burgeoning defence market of India.

American companies have over the last decade bagged defence contracts from India worth around USD 10 billion, including for aircraft like P-8I, C-130J 'Super Hercules' and C-17 Globemaster-III.

US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter may visit India in May to sign $2.5 bn deal - The Economic Times

https://twitter.com/x/status/589021320026820608

will they do TOT or #MakeinIndia and dump the helis to us?

 

[sathya]

Its not silly at all. That is pretty much what that helicopter is going to cost us. All inclusive.

Not to mention it comes with American strings attached which includes restrictions on its use and inspection clause and a Life long maintenance headache and US leverage to backmail us.



Good Marketing and Propaganda video, but how does it answer my question ?



Yes, that is its only advantage, a Ka band search radar and a MM wave radar for missile guidance. However that is something we can mount on the LCH.

How does calling it being a Heavy Gunship, light gunship or a flying cow matter ? That is just a fancy name.

I went through the link. It is a fanboy article that talks about Apache capability. But it says NOTHING about why India needs it

What additional benefit does it bring to the IA and how is it cost effective ?

Atleast we buy in different category, look at LUH competition .. And for what ?

 

[uparyupari]

Atleast we buy in different category, look at LUH competition .. And for what ?

LUH is cheaper to operate and easier to maintain. There is a rational behind it. It is also cheaper to buy.

I fail to see the rational behind the Apache unless the rational is "its an awesome machine and I want it ".

Something similar to IAF need for "Rafale".

 

[browser]

Its not silly at all. That is pretty much what that helicopter is going to cost us. All inclusive.

Not to mention it comes with American strings attached which includes restrictions on its use and inspection clause and a Life long maintenance headache and US leverage to backmail us.



Good Marketing and Propaganda video, but how does it answer my question ?



Yes, that is its only advantage, a Ka band search radar and a MM wave radar for missile guidance. However that is something we can mount on the LCH.

How does calling it being a Heavy Gunship, light gunship or a flying cow matter ? That is just a fancy name.

I went through the link. It is a fanboy article that talks about Apache capability. But it says NOTHING about why India needs it

What additional benefit does it bring to the IA and how is it cost effective ?

Agree, no benefit here.
Not sure why the Indian Army is planning for tank wars in this day and age. Besides in a tank war we would need 200 and not 20 copters.

Money would have been better used for more Chinooks.

 

[axisofevil]

Agree, no benefit here.
Not sure why the Indian Army is planning for tank wars in this day and age. Besides in a tank war we would need 200 and not 20 copters.

Money would have been better used for more Chinooks.

Ask Congress under their rule, they approved vast numbers....tanks are sitting ducks....better countermeasures have arrived..

 

[sathya]

LUH is cheaper to operate and easier to maintain. There is a rational behind it. It is also cheaper to buy.

I fail to see the rational behind the Apache unless the rational is "its an awesome machine and I want it ".

Something similar to IAF need for "Rafale".

I am asking why LUH competition when are almost ready with HAL LUH ..

 

[uparyupari]

I am asking why LUH competition when are almost ready with HAL LUH ..

How is competition a bad thing ? All LUH has to be made in India anyway. So if its HAL or Tata, how does it matter ?

IAF gets the best price in any competition. Does that answer your question ?

Agree, no benefit here.
Not sure why the Indian Army is planning for tank wars in this day and age. Besides in a tank war we would need 200 and not 20 copters.

Money would have been better used for more Chinooks.

Tanks have established role in warfare. Tanks are best weapons to take out enemy tanks and provide cover for ground troops.

Chinook is a worthy beast. We should look at setting up a plant here for that here and order it in large numbers if we cant get is for the same price as Americans ie. 26 million $ per Heli.

 

[browser]

How is competition a bad thing ? All LUH has to be made in India anyway. So if its HAL or Tata, how does it matter ?

IAF gets the best price in any competition. Does that answer your question ?



Tanks have established role in warfare. Tanks are best weapons to take out enemy tanks and provide cover for ground troops.

Chinook is a worthy beast. We should look at setting up a plant here for that here and order it in large numbers if we cant get is for the same price as Americans ie. 26 million $ per Heli.

Tanks are no longer the best weapons to take out other tanks any more.

A UAV with missiles cost $5 mil and can provide better cover with no risk of life. A tank division with 10-15 armed UAVs would cost the same as 1 helicopter.

Combat Helicopters are only useful nowadays for insurgencies and where one controls ground and air. a.k.a. Pak in Waziristan scenario, but not an invasion scenario.

I think these copters India is buying are mainly China specific (i.e. Mountain warfare specific) rather than planned to be used in any tank invasion of Pak.