US curbs feared: Pakistan to tell Iran IP project not implementable

[KingMamba]

@LoveIcon okay bhai delete reply now so no one else find out.

 

[Sugarcane]

@LoveIcon okay bhai delete reply now so no one else find out.

Webby ka bacha bata de ga sab ko.

 

[KingMamba]

Webby ka bacha bata de ga sab ko.

Kaun hai beh yeh chamcha?

 

[ResurgentIran]

As far as I know its not because Pakistan can't provide financing for it; yes its going to be difficult....very difficult as most of our funds are tied up in either some other projects or they are tied up in the War On Terror where not only the fighting costs but the rehabilitation costs even more - We've currently got the largest Internally Displaced Population in the world !

Additionally last years or the year before that's floods had ravaged most of Pakistan & we're still reeling from its affects - Millions were affected !

So whereas the funding is going to be supremely difficult it isn't going to be impossible; however the looming US Sanctions which may even take the form of UN Sanctions are a cause for great concern to us !

Pakistan has always maintained that because the Pak-Iran Pipeline Contract was signed before the US Sanctions on Iran - it doesn't fall under its jurisdiction & the project cannot be sanctioned; the Americans categorically tell us something else !

Unfortunately our present economic situation does not allow for us to risk 'sanctions' - We don't export Oil....we export Textile & Agricultural Products with the US being our largest trading partner !

That dependency, which shouldn't have been there, is there but in our present situation either we stand up & say 'foOk it...we'll still built the pipe-line' & in the process be sanctioned which will not only lead to our financial transactions & exports where the US is involved in any-way (and it is involved in almost every way imaginable) being curbed which would lead to eventual bankruptcy but would also lead to our inability to pay for our gas imports from Iran because we wouldn't have any dollar to it !

Furthermore with the advent of the off-shore shale gas drilling & exploration becoming increasingly common the world gas prices are going down whereas as per the Iranian-Pakistani contract they're pegged with Oil - This is increasingly being viewed as an inadequate formula of gas price calculations with, from what I've heard, oil & gas contracts all over the world being talked about being renegotiated as some are right now therefore even from a pricing point of view there is an issue !

But be that as it may even with the current prices we save on a lot of foreign exchange reserve being spent if we can import from Iran instead of importing Furnace Oil via Tankers to fuel our industries & so the Iran-Pakistan Gas Pipe-line is very important for us to be built because it is beneficial for us but with the looming US Sanctions going for this IP Pipeline would be like trying to solve a gas shortage issue in your house where you not only get gas but you get it cheaper by doing a deal which propels the power to be (in this just for the purpose of the analogy a Union Council or the Local Government) to impose such a hefty fine on you that not only rolls back any & all benefit accrued from your 'solution to the gas problem' but also ends up eating enough out of your own personal income that you're at a significant Net Loss & all of this, by the way, happens when you're literally hand-to-mouth which is to say you're nearly broke - thats how bad your financial situation is !

What would you do then ?

Pakistan was banking on the recent US-Iran Thaw in relations to help curb these sanctions but increasingly it is appearing to be little more than a red-herring that provided both Iran & the US a breathing space for a few months but it isn't going to affect any of the sanction related problems on the ground - the IP is still going to be sanctioned if we go through with this !

So try to look at it from our point of view as well !

@rmi5 @haman10 !

Honestly, I dont really care. I have already conceded to the fact that it was dumb as shit of Iran to enter such project, not only because of the uncertainty of the commitment, but also because it didnt seem like Pakistan could afford to build a pipeline, much less afford the gas (even if price was low for that matter).
At the same time, Pakistan had faced several US warnings before about sanctions but still did not give a clear cut signal, and even indicated it would move ahead.
Which made us go ahead and finish the work. And now all that gone to waste. Im sure you can understand some of the frustration.

All in all, dumb project. Anyway, my previous post was written out of frustration. Really, Im not into the blame game and I am not looking to blame Pakistan. I blame ourselves.
You have your own problems, for which I sympathize.

Lets just forget about this project or that it ever existed, cut the losses and part ways.
Good luck to Pakistan, I wish you all the best.

 

[SrNair]

Its unfortunate but US still dominates the economic rules of the game and institutions. However their share of the global econoy is in relative decline, so US ability to pressure other nations is eroding. US is also increasingly relying on alliances and other countries, instead of being all-powerful. And thats good at least.

You are right.US share in world economy is 33% in 2000.Now it share come down to 22% due to chinese and BRICS growth.
Future within 20 years China will surpass US and India may come close to US.So in overall BRICS prospect completely increases.Then US ability to pressurize will again erode.

 

[SrNair]

With all do respect, please do not tell jokes. You are saying that money is not your problem?!!! If it is not, I suggest you to pay your debts, and spend it for your own poor people. When US tells you shoo, you run away. So, how Iran can rely on your promises? Be realistic.
BTW, I am not your foe, but I don't care about nice gestures. We have been suffered enough from our behavior to be optimistic about others empty promises.

Come on... how many times you have voted against Iran? How much debt you owe to Iran? What you have done to prove your friendship? Maybe your support to Baluch separatists?!!!

Ok if your argument is like that .I cant say more about it.You have oil ,we have money.It is just good business.Talk about poor people .Iran sit on an oil wealth and your population is about 8 crores.So you cant imagine or know how to run a country of 1.2 billion people with large diversity.We dont have oil.But we are second fastest growing economy in the world.so you can imagine massive requirement of oil here.
We always against proliferation of nukes.We develop our nukes without any foreign help and we dont sold our tech to another country.No one in world except USSR try help us when US mobilize their 7th fleet and Britian mobilize their fleet to destroy US .It is because of USSR we came back from a total destruction.We always give priority to India's national interest.
We cant circulate US $ or Euro it is west currencies and we need their bank for transactions and you must need $ or euro.You cant accept money in rupees and west sanctions against foreign banks.Otherwise you dont have to bother about about debt.
We will not gave empty promises like this.IF we determine for something that is most important for our national security and energy security no one can pressurize us.US cant antagonize India and China simulateneously .If they do that then their game in Asia will over.Just google Diplomatic issue.If there is another country in place of India ,you can see US wrath that like you felt.

 

[SrNair]

No you didn't.



Your strong friend left this project long before Pakistan has even thought about doing so, your strong friend voted against you in UN, your strong friend cut its oil exports from you guys until you agreed to take their weakened rupee as payment, and despite all that your strong friend still owes you some funds. Nice friend.

But now same strong India try to make an agreement with Iran for undersea pipeline

 

[acid rain]

TAPI pipeline has a P in it for what? Yet India hasn't said TAPI is off the table. So blatant lie right there. Yes it was your choice to vote against Iran but if you were really friends you could have just as easily had abstained. Nope many articles dispute Chinese cutting oil imports while many confirm India as doing so and every time you Indians brought it up Chinese members proved you wrong especially ChineseDragon. Also you even tried to take advantage of Iran by dumping your currency on them when your currency was dropping in value. Before you guys had a barter system with them where you paid in goods then you froze imports and withheld payment until they took your rupees. What losses did Pakistan cause Iran? When you go ahead with a project you make investments that is what Iran did, now if Pakistan does cancel this deal then that is why Iran put penalty provisions and they will get their money back but as of right not the project is still on despite its murky outlook and while this one article says it is nixed others say Pakistani ministers are headed to Iran sometime next week to talk about the pipeline.

TAPI pipeline is a pipedream..we arent serious about it..guess why?? because of Pakistan again.

UN voting is dependent on what we think is right, doesnt mean that if we are friends we change our stance - we have voted against russia, israel, US as well even though they are our friends.

LOL, chinese cut their exports - ask the Iranians - not the lying 50 centers for confirmation.

I think its dead, we'll wait and see.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I am sure behind the curtains China would have negotiated something else for not supporting it - maybe something with US or maybe nuclear plants with Pakistan - after all at the end everyone looks after it;s own interests.

Did the USA turn a blind eye to the China-Pakistan nuclear deals though?

I remember them whining about it, though no where near as much as India did.

We had every right to sell those reactors. And we will continue to expand our commercial activities overseas.

 

[Sugarcane]

Did the USA turn a blind eye to the China-Pakistan nuclear deals though?

I remember them whining about it, though no where near as much as India did.

We had every right to sell those reactors. And we will continue to expand our commercial activities overseas.

West is always doing propaganda against our nuclear capabilities, but in this case they haven't objected as per expectation, plus why China backed off from funding a strategic project? So, imho China surely achieved some other interest on expense of this, otherwise it doesn't make sense that raising China who is looking for opportunities to increase her influence let it go just because of US pressure. But again that's my personal opinion, not attended to offend anyone.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

West is always doing propaganda against our nuclear capabilities, but in this case they haven't objected as per expectation, plus why China backed off from funding a strategic project? So, imho China surely achieved some other interest on expense of this, otherwise it doesn't make sense that raising China who is looking for opportunities to increase her influence let it go just because of US pressure. But again that's my personal opinion, not attended to offend anyone.

No offense taken.

I'm just curious about this issue.

Firstly, China is not a party in the IP pipeline, it won't connect to us. Our pipelines are mostly in Central Asia and to places like Russia. We have gas-rich countries all around us, and China itself has the #1 largest reserves of shale gas in the world. We won't run out of gas anytime soon.

This pipeline is an issue between Iran-Pakistan-USA. If Pakistan does not want to go ahead, there is little we can do, or would even wish to do, unless you can change it to an oil pipeline and run it through the Himalayas.

As for the China-Pakistan nuclear deal, I feel that America did not object very strongly because we were justified in that deal. Though of course there must have been backroom agreements as well.

In the end, as I always say, Pakistan should build more coal-based power plants, and hydroelectric power plants. There is no point waiting for gas that isn't going to come.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

pakistantoday.com.pk/2014/01/govt-will-complete-iran-pakistan-gas-project-senate-body-told/

Source 1
Petroleum Minister Shahid Khaqan Abbasi on Monday said the government would not let such a situation arise that Iran could impose penalty on Pakistan in case of failure to start work on the Iran-Pakistan pipeline project.
Expressing these views in a meeting of the Senate’s Standing Committee on Petroleum and Natural Resources held under Muhammad Yousaf, Abbasi said Pakistan was facing hindrances due to sanctions from the European Union (EU) and United States (US).
The instruments required for the construction of pipeline are manufactured of two major companies and they are not willing to give that machinery to Pakistan. In case of expectations of international sanctions no one is ready to work on the project.
The Inter State Gas Company (ISGC) MD informed the committee that the US has made it clear that there is no policy change regarding the IP project. He said by the end of this month meeting would be held between Pakistan and Iran to discuss the different technical aspects of the project and to formulate the way forward.
The minister said that due to increase in gas shortfall domestic consumers are facing gas load shedding and this situation would remain for three months.

Abbasi said the government was negotiating over price of LNG from Qatar and nothing has been finalised so far. The minister alleged that the former government was least bothered to safeguard the interests of the people and they were not serious to import LNG to settle the growing demand. He announced that the ministry would hold inquiry over the MoU signed in the previous tenure about LNG import between SSGPL and a US company.
He made it clear that import of LNG is the only option to settle the current energy crises from the country and it can also reduce the power outages to half. If uninterrupted gas supply continued to the power plants operating on gas then power production would automatically increase, the minister said.
Senator Hamza said, “Political parties were distributed gas connections that led to severe energy crises we are facing today.”
The legislative body asked the ministry to finance the Iran-Pakistan pipeline project through internal resources and not via bank loans.


Second Source
Pakistan, Iran Agree To Speed Up Gas-Pipeline Project

Pakistan, Iran Agree To Speed Up Gas-Pipeline Project
Pakistan says it has agreed with Iran to speed up a gas pipeline project.

A statement from Pakistan's Foreign Ministry on December 10 said experts from both sides would meet soon to review the project, designed to link Iran's South Pars gas field with consumers in South Asia.


‘Pakistan to complete IP gas pipeline, avoid fine’
Source Three
Pakistani federal minister of petroleum and natural resources says his country seeks to avoid heavy fines by completing the multi-billion-dollar pipeline projected to carry natural gas from Iran.

PressTV - ‘Pakistan to complete IP gas pipeline, avoid fine’

Speaking at a meeting of the Senate’s Standing Committee on Petroleum and Natural Resources in Islamabad on Monday, Shahid Khaqan Abbasi stated that the Pakistani government is facing difficulties over the completion of the IP (Iran-Pakistan) gas pipeline as a result of US pressure.

During the meeting, Managing Director of the private Inter State Gas Systems (ISGS) Mobin Saulat stated that the United States has made it clear that there is no shift in its opposition to the IP gas pipeline.

Saulat added that Iranian and Pakistani energy officials will hold a meeting later this month to discuss different technical aspects of the pipeline, and formulate strategies to advance the project.

The United States has long been threatening Pakistan with economic sanctions if Islamabad goes ahead with the IP gas pipeline project.
However, the government of Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has made it clear that addressing the country’s longstanding energy problems will be its top priority, and it has no plans to reverse the decision on the completion of IP pipeline.

According to the original agreement sealed between Iran and Pakistan, the first Iranian gas delivery to Pakistan should start by December 31, 2014.

The two countries are also responsible for the completion of the pipeline project within their territories, and if Pakistan does not fulfill its obligation to complete the pipeline on its side by the end of 2014, it will have to pay a daily penalty of USD one million to Iran until completion.

Iran has already built 900 kilometers of the pipeline on its own soil and is waiting for the 700-kilometer Pakistani side of the pipeline to be constructed.

The IP pipeline is designed to help Pakistan overcome its growing energy needs at a time when the country of over 180 million people is grappling with serious energy shortages.


Source 4 !!!!
Adjusting timeline: No need for new deal on Iran gas pipeline, says FO

• January 17, 2014 1:09 pm
• Economics, Headlines, News, Politics, Regional Affairs
• no comments

Pakistan on Thursday said it is opposed to signing a new agreement with Iran on the multibillion dollar gas pipeline in view of the financial snags that the project has run into.
“Already, we have an agreement. Why would we sign a new agreement? There may be an adjustment of the timeline but that does not require a new agreement,” Foreign Office spokesperson Tasnim Aslam told reporters here at the weekly news briefing.

She insisted that the progress on the pipeline had been slow because of the funding issues and it had nothing to do with the US threats of sanctions on the project.

“The gas pipeline is a bilateral issue between Pakistan and Iran and it is not going to be specifically on the agenda of strategic dialogue (between Pakistan and US),” she added.

Project deadline

The multibillion dollar project was formally signed in the last days of Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) government in 2013. Under the agreement, the project is scheduled to be completed by the end of this year.

However, given the likely US sanctions and slow progress to lay the pipeline on the Pakistani side of the border, the project is unlikely to meet the deadline.

The recent nuclear deal between Iran and the western countries had renewed hopes of timely completion of the project.

What can you do when you backed out of gas deal

 

[shuntmaster]

I said it was dumb of us to build this pipeline.

Iran can extend the pipeline to Chabahar port and export the gas to India via LNG carriers.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Pakistan should have told Iran earlier instead of dragging this for so many years......

If Iran even finances the construction of pipeline then also i wonder how will pakistan pay for the oil.....

Matter between Pakistan and Iran.

Pants on fire -> Hindu - stani.

Just goes on to show the small personality, centuries of protein deficiency has resulted in.

Chal .. Bol Hindu-stani ..

 

[jarves]

Matter between Pakistan and Iran.

Pants on fire -> Hindu - stani.

Just goes on to show the small personality, centuries of protein deficiency has resulted in.

Chal .. Bol Hindu-stani ..

Is this what they teach in you Madrassas......

Why should my pants be on fire on seeing the bankruptcy of Pakistan......

India ranks better than pakitan in HDI......

Bol diya Pakistani.....