US committed to boosting Pakistan’s precision strike capability, Congress told

[Imran Khan]

Sir ji ...F35 suppose to F16 replacement , but F35 is technology disaster right now. Cost of production is smoothly climbing. And F16 is keep on modifying and still low cost moderate dominating aircraft in the market.

the dream of 5th and 6th gen is reuned by this bloody f-35 sir . i am fully agree with you . now we need to look east for next generation . f-35 have so many issues at this moment . i hope its become better with time cheap and affordable so after 10-15 years we can have it . at this time we need qaroon ka khazana for feed f-35

 

[HAIDER]

the dream of 5th and 6th gen is reuned by this bloody f-35 sir . i am fully agree with you . now we need to look east for next generation . f-35 have so many issues at this moment . i hope its become better with time cheap and affordable so after 10-15 years we can have it . at this time we need qaroon ka khazana for feed f-35

F35 suppose to be ON DUTY by 2017, but not chance even after. VTOL is very expensive in maintenance. Russia and America seems not much interested in stealth program. SU35, PAK FA all slow down, still in testing phase. F22 stop production after hardly 122 planes, due to cost issue. Only China has stealth factory with Russian engine, but no bench testing. So, F16 is the best plane for PAF.

@Imran Khan .......watch this is PAF now a days..

 

[sohail.ishaque]

things we ( bloody Civilians ) will never know, tell me how many Pakistani's know that Shamsi base was under US possession until the Salala incident ? Army is keeping secret and if they compromise anything , they will keep Pakistani Govt and People blind ... its fishy that we are bending too much for only 8 F-shola ...

and u think Govt was unaware of it ?? i mean u seriously think that the Govt(Yousuf Raza gillani & Zardari) were unaware of this,.. ??? you think had they knew about it, they woud have kick the American's out of the Shamsi Air base ????? Do you think that Hussain haqqani's memo case, was designed and implemented by Army ????

i mean i wud love to agree to you but i need alot of questions to b answered.....

 

[Windjammer]

@Quwa @Windjammer @MastanKhan
Is there a teeny meeny chance that JF-17 could incorporate Western targeting pods?.
That would be a sight to see.

Who knows.

 

[Imran Khan]

things we ( bloody Civilians ) will never know, tell me how many Pakistani's know that Shamsi base was under US possession until the Salala incident ? Army is keeping secret and if they compromise anything , they will keep Pakistani Govt and People blind ... its fishy that we are bending too much for only 8 F-shola ...

WE ALL BLOODY CIVILIANS know it since ages sir
salala attack happen on 26 November 2011


shamsi base it was in media since 2002 first images were leaked at 2006 janab



these are media reports

aug2009
CIA base in Pak still in use, Predator drones flying from Shamsi: NYT
Published: February 20, 2009
Pakistan Airports and Bases Eyeball 1

 

[The Eagle]

Respectable members,

Seems to be good diplomacy after a while... That is called double slap term for the enemy.. Win win situation indeed. US knows the need of Pakistan and still the Afghan theater is hot so in short US cannot decline the importance of Pakistan just like that as our neighbor has been working really hard day & night by lobbying.

We do not go narrow minded like our rival so used the best offices, the Military ability and a solid proof of winning almost the war against terrorism. Neighbor lost it in double like money and reputation as well.

In my opinion, this is the right way to carry on relations like balanced diplomatic relations with everyone. F-16s are indeed almost mastered by us so addition is never bad even in the low numbers for the time being but there are always surprises to be revealed on time yet are better to kept as secrete. The new platform may require a total new structure & resources and even by going quickly it will indeed take time to understand and learn almost fully so adding more F-16s even within 2 years wouldn't linger on our ability or create a gap but indeed a good fill.

US need a safe exit from Afghan which is not even possible without Pakistan and we are rightly playing our cards though the iota of doubt in this regard that we are loosing dignity, I wouldn't agree at all because this is how to do the business and we are doing rightly not like whatever happened in past. Past is gone and we have learnt a lot to build better future. The issue of things happening behind close doors which are affecting Pakistan, does not exist or is almost about to be finished so there shouldn't be any doubt about capability of Military for handling things on behalf of us, yet. We also need to learn and understand the tactics of our enemy who knows that cannot defeat us by direct contact but still at some points succeeds through monopoly to demonize our forces for which some of us are mistakenly doing the job well.

When someone do the right thing then ALLAH (S.W.T) grant him respect among people which is clearly visible in case of our current Military leadership and the love of people for him. Nobody is God here but the one who is praised by the people is indeed a sign of blessing upon him.

In the same time, sticking to the JFT program is feasible and no doubt the same will be evolved to every possible growth and potential. JFT program helped a lot to learn things and it will be more helpful to come up with further powerful blocks like JV for twin engine and 5th generation in future. In short, JFT has set a foundation for us which will be fruitful in long run though the game has just begun. Later but better then never.

We are not bound to the F-16s only and future will tell.

Pakistan Zindabad

 

[rockstar08]

Ok. I accept that US will hand over Afghanistan to ISIS ... please let me know which future US administration will be able to take that risk? Democrats or Republican? Sir, US cannot afford to get out of Afghanistan during such strategic flux at global scale where new power centers are emerging while US is fast losing its edge. Not only leaving Afghanistan open to China, Pakistan and Russia ( all three are in SCO). Why do you think India is pressing so much with investment in Afghanistan? All Indian initiatives are being taken after a nod from Washington. Balance of Power is back and kicking.... So Alliance formation is clear. Pakistan and China on one side while India-US is on the other. But Pakistan have relations with both China and the US. If you think US is playing with Pakistan, tell me what stops Pakistan doing the same to the US? and how can you think we are not already doing that where it needs to be done? I will be really surprise to see a complete withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan.

you need to read the history again , the cold war era ... US never did trust Pakistan and will ever .. they are here to plant and spy and play their dirty Proxies within the region , keep China in check and try to prove Pakistan as a failed state .. now you can call this all a Conspiracy theory but there are much evidence to back it up .. lets leave it to some other thread .

Now coming back to F-16.

Is this the only plane in PAF?NO!
Is it only high-end multi-role fighter in PAF? YES!

So, here what the situation is. We will have to live with it. PAF is working on some future programs as hinted by Project Director of JF-17 in a program... but we have no idea at what stage those plans are and if they will see the light of the day or not... our options are limited. No one is interested in selling us high tech stuff this is another harsh reality. In this backdrop, PAF's insistence on F-16s and other US based weapons must not be difficult to fathom. Tell me, if we don't go for F-16s which other options is there with same promise of performance and reliability? Please don't come up with J-10. Had this been satisfied PAF, we would have seen them in PAF colors by now.

F-16 was pushed down to our throats back in 90's , i wont be surprised if PAF take bribe for choosing F-16 over Mirage 2k's .. but look at the struggle we have to do and deal with acquiring those odd 70 F-16's . only 18 are new block 52's rest are old block upgraded to the standards .. but they all are sanction prone , in any future battle US can ground our entire fleet and we will caught with our pants down in front of IAF ..

the issue is this that F-16 is the only high end fighter in PAF for now ,we have no other option , and honestly PAF never thinks of , why ? who knows ? maybe they are corrupt ..
yeah i heard all these statements which i am hearing since i was kid . and you are wrong that no one is ready to sell their high tech stuff to us , its just West .. US to be more precise .. they wont sell anything which is high tech to Pakistan.. India and Israel is the major cause ..
we have J-10 option , but we did not go for that .. you are talking like kid here, JF-17 fulfill PAF requirement NO .. you still have to rely on russia and China for Engine .. what if we have 70 J-10's instead of JF-17's ? an old F-16 block 15 can satisfy our PAF but not J-10C which comes with IRST and AESA ? no wonder PAF is run by chawals of extreme levels .
J-10's as JF-17 program have changed the strategy for PAF in upcoming decade but again, as i say our Shit tanks believe they are very smart but they are literally dumbA$$ ..
they are literlly begging for 8 F-16's , which will come with demands like more visa's for CIA , more bases , and decrease in Nukes .. and who knows what else our Generals put in plate for them ...
you either like it or not, 20 J-10's will beat 10 F-16's any block , any day , any time ...

If you think that you are the only one who knows what the great game is about and PA nad PAF are sitting idle then you need to rethink your strategy and get out of Pakistan for no one wants to sit on a powder keg. Iwould disagree with you on the assumption of why PAF is still going for 16s. I would also venture that by th3 time IAF gets the Rafale if they wver do PAF will have an answer to it if not straight away than wi5hjn a couple of years. Rest are all opinions and no one knows thhe whole truth except Allah SWT.
A

Of course not , i am not the only one ... but the think is that i speak what i know will happen , unlike rest of blind patriots who go outside Shouting Pakistan Zindabad at every Choda August .. yeah army told us we are capable of defending the nation , and they expect us to believe .. yeah we do cause we can't question these Heavenly Generals right ?
IAF has 250+ Su-30MKI which is superior to anything PAF operates for now .. IAF has 2-3rd layer SAM's that your fighter wont be able to cross the border when it comes to ..
the problem i have is why are we begging for F-16 ? why not move on .. US spit on our face by calling us terrorist , our army been accused of supporting Terrorist , ISI been based , what good US did to Pakistan ? except giving us AID but destroying the entire Infrastructure of Pakistan by starting this WOT next to our borders ..
they let TTP , ISIS grow in Afghanistan and yet they complain about us not targeting the Haqqani ? and still our Generals are licking the boots of those Goora ? ok i understand Politicians have no self respect , Dignity but what about the Generals ? they swore an oath to defend Pakistan yet they show so much negligence when it comes to Defence .. Did hidden deals , give base to US, stay silence with many soldiers died at salala ... tell me what US would do if we killed their soldiers ? you along your country would be send back to stone age by now .. the Generals do nothing because , those who died are not their son's .. they are junior rank officers ..

you can keep saying that we have all answers for that... truth is even in 2025, we will still be looking for used F-16's , practically begging US for that ..

and u think Govt was unaware of it ?? i mean u seriously think that the Govt(Yousuf Raza gillani & Zardari) were unaware of this,.. ??? you think had they knew about it, they woud have kick the American's out of the Shamsi Air base ????? Do you think that Hussain haqqani's memo case, was designed and implemented by Army ????

i mean i wud love to agree to you but i need alot of questions to b answered.....

even if the Govt know what they can do ?
the question is both Army and Govt should be accountable .. no one should be above LAW... but i doubt common Pakistani know that Americans are using Shamsi base .. they tell you what you want to hear that's it ..

 

[Hell hound]

Who knows.

pls tell me that we can mount gbu 10 on jf 17 i don't care even if it is a lie.

 

[Windjammer]

pls tell me that we can mount gbu 10 on jf 17 i don't care even if it is a lie.

A JF-17 model with its armory. The inner pylons are carrying 2x 2000lbs GBU-10 LGBs.

 

[MastanKhan]

@Quwa @Windjammer @MastanKhan
Is there a teeny meeny chance that JF-17 could incorporate Western targeting pods?.
That would be a sight to see.

Hi,

That can happen---but chinese pod should work very well as well.

 

[Hell hound]

A JF-17 model with its armory. The inner pylons are carrying 2x 2000lbs GBU-10 LGBs.

thats an extremely good news means we can mount american weapon on our thunder and they are compatible with its avionics.

 

[Windjammer]

thats an extremely good news means we can mount american weapon on our thunder and they are compatible with its avionics.

We done that back in the 60s.....wired and integrated American sidewinders on our F-6s.

 

[Hell hound]

We done that back in the 60s.....wired and integrated American sidewinders on our F-6s.

i knew about f 6 but doing the same with thunder was great news and huge surprise for me as i wasn't aware that Americans have given us their permission to integrate their weapons on thunders.

 

[araz]

you need to read the history again , the cold war era ... US never did trust Pakistan and will ever .. they are here to plant and spy and play their dirty Proxies within the region , keep China in check and try to prove Pakistan as a failed state .. now you can call this all a Conspiracy theory but there are much evidence to back it up .. lets leave it to some other thread .



F-16 was pushed down to our throats back in 90's , i wont be surprised if PAF take bribe for choosing F-16 over Mirage 2k's .. but look at the struggle we have to do and deal with acquiring those odd 70 F-16's . only 18 are new block 52's rest are old block upgraded to the standards .. but they all are sanction prone , in any future battle US can ground our entire fleet and we will caught with our pants down in front of IAF ..

the issue is this that F-16 is the only high end fighter in PAF for now ,we have no other option , and honestly PAF never thinks of , why ? who knows ? maybe they are corrupt ..
yeah i heard all these statements which i am hearing since i was kid . and you are wrong that no one is ready to sell their high tech stuff to us , its just West .. US to be more precise .. they wont sell anything which is high tech to Pakistan.. India and Israel is the major cause ..
we have J-10 option , but we did not go for that .. you are talking like kid here, JF-17 fulfill PAF requirement NO .. you still have to rely on russia and China for Engine .. what if we have 70 J-10's instead of JF-17's ? an old F-16 block 15 can satisfy our PAF but not J-10C which comes with IRST and AESA ? no wonder PAF is run by chawals of extreme levels .
J-10's as JF-17 program have changed the strategy for PAF in upcoming decade but again, as i say our Shit tanks believe they are very smart but they are literally dumbA$$ ..
they are literlly begging for 8 F-16's , which will come with demands like more visa's for CIA , more bases , and decrease in Nukes .. and who knows what else our Generals put in plate for them ...
you either like it or not, 20 J-10's will beat 10 F-16's any block , any day , any time ...



Of course not , i am not the only one ... but the think is that i speak what i know will happen , unlike rest of blind patriots who go outside Shouting Pakistan Zindabad at every Choda August .. yeah army told us we are capable of defending the nation , and they expect us to believe .. yeah we do cause we can't question these Heavenly Generals right ?
IAF has 250+ Su-30MKI which is superior to anything PAF operates for now .. IAF has 2-3rd layer SAM's that your fighter wont be able to cross the border when it comes to ..
the problem i have is why are we begging for F-16 ? why not move on .. US spit on our face by calling us terrorist , our army been accused of supporting Terrorist , ISI been based , what good US did to Pakistan ? except giving us AID but destroying the entire Infrastructure of Pakistan by starting this WOT next to our borders ..
they let TTP , ISIS grow in Afghanistan and yet they complain about us not targeting the Haqqani ? and still our Generals are licking the boots of those Goora ? ok i understand Politicians have no self respect , Dignity but what about the Generals ? they swore an oath to defend Pakistan yet they show so much negligence when it comes to Defence .. Did hidden deals , give base to US, stay silence with many soldiers died at salala ... tell me what US would do if we killed their soldiers ? you along your country would be send back to stone age by now .. the Generals do nothing because , those who died are not their son's .. they are junior rank officers ..

you can keep saying that we have all answers for that... truth is even in 2025, we will still be looking for used F-16's , practically begging US for that ..



even if the Govt know what they can do ?
the question is both Army and Govt should be accountable .. no one should be above LAW... but i doubt common Pakistani know that Americans are using Shamsi base .. they tell you what you want to hear that's it ..

OK. So you want the army to tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So lets break this down and analyze your post point by point.
A. THE US AND ITS AFPAK policy: Pakistan is cursed by being in a vital strategic position. If we had been somewhere in the bushes of Africa we would not have been that important. We know the game is on and we know its nature and its objectives. The strategic aim is to keep control of the warm waters and secure the sea lanes and contain China and more dangerously the the Sino russian alliance. The question is that even if we know the strategy what are you going to do about it. Post 9./11 certain demands were made including the use of some bases and right of flight over territory. Pakistan was not is not and will not be in a position to stand up to the US for another 50-100 years. The problem is the financial position you are in. That was not of the army' s doing although I would be the first to agree that the Generals benefitted from the situation. You look at your trade and see how you can survive if US were to embargo the trade that you do with them. Even if you did not confront them directly but resisted behind the scenes they would have mauled you badly. I still say Musharraf collapsed far too soon but such is the problem of having an autocracy. If there had been a political government with some balls they would have negotiated harder and gotten some more benefits out of it but at the end of the day you would have to give in. So back to square one. We know the aims and outcome but a frontal attack would be disasterous and therefore the dilly dallying to safeguard your own home.
B. The F16s and the M2Ks: We have talked this to its death. On this forum you have beard from the very man who was responsible for executing the M2K deal. The deal was represented to the French 90 days later and they did not accept it. Reason may have been a certain Mr Sarkozy and backhanders which Zardari was willing to share with him but others were not. In 2002-6 PAF was quoted 60 million per M2K5 refurbished for 59 planes. You may say what you like but the deal was never in the bag. Bad luck, fate or just which side of the bed Benazir got out of. The deal never happened. The J10 which you all sing praises of was not ready till that time. The other issue is the fact that with the amount of upgradability JFT was found to be as good as the J10 by the PAF who have been intimately involved and aware of the developments of the Chinese aviation industry. Recently the J10B has had issues with its engines with massive flameouts observed by PAF and 2 recent crashed due to problems with its structure. This is widely known in the internet fora. So there is something not quite right with it yet. With the Chinese policy of hand me down technology JFT will get all the goodies which J10 would have had so why buy 2 planes with similar technology. I can say with absolute authority that the 16s will give any plane in the region including the Rafale a run for its money and the IAF will think twice before it enters Pakistani air space. Can you imagine the downgrading of the morale of IAF if during a skirmish a Rafale is lost with a block 52.
So the next thing to look at is why PAF is not getting other planes. Firstly what is actually available and what are the problems. As to the former the short answer is nothing that would be a good answer and would be within our price range. Inspite of what we hear no nation at this point in time will sell to Pakistan unless we can show a couple of billion in loose change. The other issue is whatever you buy is going to be with us for 30 years. Now here we have an additional problem. We are movingaway from 4th generation and on the verge of the 5th generation technology. If we sell our souls to the devil and get the 5- 6 billion for a couple of squadrons of compatible planes what happens in 5 years time when IAF buys Pakfa or some other stealth platform. Secondly what willcost us 5 billion to buy will cost us 3 times more in lifetime costs and infrastructure development. So things do not look so rosy all of a sudden for the new platform group. The last question in this regards is why 16s and you have heard from many more knowledgeable than me on this issue. The spectre of sanctions are also raised. Do you think the french or the EU or even Russians cannot sanction you? Of course they can and will in case our interests ae at odds with theirs.
C:THE ARMY HAS SOLD US OUT:- This notion is without any proof. The reason is that the general unlike the politicians cannot in most cases leave their country and still remain relevant. Sure people have retired and gone to greener pastures but in case of a conflict they will live and die in Pakistan. They will not be accepted else where. So do Generals make money ---yes, but do they sell their nation I would hope not. Politicians on the other hand will do both without any hesitation. As to how do Generals paint the picture they have to be upbeat and positive. How do you think I dja will behave if Raheel Shareef came on to the scene and said our ammo will not last more than 3 days in a war and by day 5 we will be Freddied. Of course he wont say that. The point J am trying to make is thaf the armed forces are just one facet of defence of thus nation. We as a nation do not give taxes steal from where ever we can lay our hands on and yet the Generals need to tell the truth. WHY??It is not the fault of the navy that there eequest for frigates has gone on to deaf ears. The country just does not have the money and whatever we have is being looted with both hands by politicians and generals alike.
D. SALALA AND OBS: Again irrespective of what happened what do you expect the soldiers to do. Start a full scale battle in response. Sure it was a stupid thing by the US. They have apologised and regretted the event. But a response from PA woyld have made a bad situation worse. As to what our response would be in case of an outright attack by the US, the answer is we will do whatever we can to defend our country against a legitimate offensive act by anyone but you dont respond with aggression to a strategic mistake. The OBS incident is a wierd one and I woukd much rather not discuss it on an open forum. So lets leave it at that..
So in short the armed forces are a part of the nake up of the country. Theee are good and bad amongst it but in general most of them are patriots. The situation wirh tge US needs to be dealt with ta t and patience. They are in a position of giving so they will have some questions as well and since we receive we need to show some restraint. The 16s will continue to be a backbone of our force makeup for considerable time but will be the last platform that we buy from them.
A

 

[Paksanity]

OK. So you want the army to tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So lets break this down and analyze your post point by point.
A. THE US AND ITS AFPAK policy: Pakistan is cursed by being in a vital strategic position. If we had been somewhere in the bushes of Africa we would not have been that important. We know the game is on and we know its nature and its objectives. The strategic aim is to keep control of the warm waters and secure the sea lanes and contain China and more dangerously the the Sino russian alliance. The question is that even if we know the strategy what are you going to do about it. Post 9./11 certain demands were made including the use of some bases and right of flight over territory. Pakistan was not is not and will not be in a position to stand up to the US for another 50-100 years. The problem is the financial position you are in. That was not of the army' s doing although I would be the first to agree that the Generals benefitted from the situation. You look at your trade and see how you can survive if US were to embargo the trade that you do with them. Even if you did not confront them directly but resisted behind the scenes they would have mauled you badly. I still say Musharraf collapsed far too soon but such is the problem of having an autocracy. If there had been a political government with some balls they would have negotiated harder and gotten some more benefits out of it but at the end of the day you would have to give in. So back to square one. We know the aims and outcome but a frontal attack would be disasterous and therefore the dilly dallying to safeguard your own home.
B. The F16s and the M2Ks: We have talked this to its death. On this forum you have beard from the very man who was responsible for executing the M2K deal. The deal was represented to the French 90 days later and they did not accept it. Reason may have been a certain Mr Sarkozy and backhanders which Zardari was willing to share with him but others were not. In 2002-6 PAF was quoted 60 million per M2K5 refurbished for 59 planes. You may say what you like but the deal was never in the bag. Bad luck, fate or just which side of the bed Benazir got out of. The deal never happened. The J10 which you all sing praises of was not ready till that time. The other issue is the fact that with the amount of upgradability JFT was found to be as good as the J10 by the PAF who have been intimately involved and aware of the developments of the Chinese aviation industry. Recently the J10B has had issues with its engines with massive flameouts observed by PAF and 2 recent crashed due to problems with its structure. This is widely known in the internet fora. So there is something not quite right with it yet. With the Chinese policy of hand me down technology JFT will get all the goodies which J10 would have had so why buy 2 planes with similar technology. I can say with absolute authority that the 16s will give any plane in the region including the Rafale a run for its money and the IAF will think twice before it enters Pakistani air space. Can you imagine the downgrading of the morale of IAF if during a skirmish a Rafale is lost with a block 52.
So the next thing to look at is why PAF is not getting other planes. Firstly what is actually available and what are the problems. As to the former the short answer is nothing that would be a good answer and would be within our price range. Inspite of what we hear no nation at this point in time will sell to Pakistan unless we can show a couple of billion in loose change. The other issue is whatever you buy is going to be with us for 30 years. Now here we have an additional problem. We are movingaway from 4th generation and on the verge of the 5th generation technology. If we sell our souls to the devil and get the 5- 6 billion for a couple of squadrons of compatible planes what happens in 5 years time when IAF buys Pakfa or some other stealth platform. Secondly what willcost us 5 billion to buy will cost us 3 times more in lifetime costs and infrastructure development. So things do not look so rosy all of a sudden for the new platform group. The last question in this regards is why 16s and you have heard from many more knowledgeable than me on this issue. The spectre of sanctions are also raised. Do you think the french or the EU or even Russians cannot sanction you? Of course they can and will in case our interests ae at odds with theirs.
C:THE ARMY HAS SOLD US OUT:- This notion is without any proof. The reason is that the general unlike the politicians cannot in most cases leave their country and still remain relevant. Sure people have retired and gone to greener pastures but in case of a conflict they will live and die in Pakistan. They will not be accepted else where. So do Generals make money ---yes, but do they sell their nation I would hope not. Politicians on the other hand will do both without any hesitation. As to how do Generals paint the picture they have to be upbeat and positive. How do you think I dja will behave if Raheel Shareef came on to the scene and said our ammo will not last more than 3 days in a war and by day 5 we will be Freddied. Of course he wont say that. The point J am trying to make is thaf the armed forces are just one facet of defence of thus nation. We as a nation do not give taxes steal from where ever we can lay our hands on and yet the Generals need to tell the truth. WHY??It is not the fault of the navy that there eequest for frigates has gone on to deaf ears. The country just does not have the money and whatever we have is being looted with both hands by politicians and generals alike.
D. SALALA AND OBS: Again irrespective of what happened what do you expect the soldiers to do. Start a full scale battle in response. Sure it was a stupid thing by the US. They have apologised and regretted the event. But a response from PA woyld have made a bad situation worse. As to what our response would be in case of an outright attack by the US, the answer is we will do whatever we can to defend our country against a legitimate offensive act by anyone but you dont respond with aggression to a strategic mistake. The OBS incident is a wierd one and I woukd much rather not discuss it on an open forum. So lets leave it at that..
So in short the armed forces are a part of the nake up of the country. Theee are good and bad amongst it but in general most of them are patriots. The situation wirh tge US needs to be dealt with ta t and patience. They are in a position of giving so they will have some questions as well and since we receive we need to show some restraint. The 16s will continue to be a backbone of our force makeup for considerable time but will be the last platform that we buy from them.
A

Excellent post. I am afraid your wise words will fall on deaf ears and close minds.