United States, Israel opposed Mandela, supported Apartheid

[Ceylal]

Fact #1 Blacks in apartheid South Africa lived way better than in any other sub saharan country.

Bullshit! Since your government is typically an apartheid, let ask the Palestinian living in the Ghazan banthustan and the west bank soweto what they think?

Fact #2 After Mandela came to power life standards in South Africa significantly dropped. Johanesburg became a worlds rape capital.

That may be a fact, knowing that departure of the educated supremacist whites left the country and the poor kept uneducated by the apartheid. There was a certain decline, but they recovered fast...

 

[Ceylal]

[video]

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[video]

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Bal d’hypocrites pour Mandela : quand l’Occident soutenait Pretoria...

A hypocrit walse for Mandela: When the west supported Pretoria

L’avalanche d’hommages déjà prêts à Nelson Mandela est certes méritée par la personnalité, le sacrifice, et la vie du grand leader sud-africain. Mais elle pourrait laisser croire que tout le monde l’a toujours adoré, et qu’il n’aurait donc été victime que d’une poignée d’extrémistes blancs isolés au bout de l’Afrique.

The avalanche of tribute paid to Nelson Mandela is well deserved for the personality, the sacrifice and the great african leader life. But it is misleading to think that the world has always adorned him, and that he was a victim of an isolated handfull of white extremist in the other end of Africa.

La réalité est bien différente. Pour l’essentiel de sa vie politique, Nelson Mandela a été considéré comme un homme dangereux par le monde occidental

The reality is different. Nelson Mandela was seen as a dangerous man for the west.

Near Oujda in a military training camp, With departed Mohammed Lamari, ex COS of the ANP

 

[Syrian Lion]

7 Nelson Mandela Quotes You Probably Won’t See In The U.S. Media
The former South African president, who died Thursday, was a revolutionary and a deep skeptic of American power.

7. On the U.S. war with Iraq:

“If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don’t care for human beings.”

Via cbsnews.com
6. On Israel:

“Israel should withdraw from all the areas which it won from the Arabs in 1967, and in particular Israel should withdraw completely from the Golan Heights, from south Lebanon and from the West Bank.”

Via jweekly.com
5. On the U.S. war with Iraq:

“All that (Mr. Bush) wants is Iraqi oil.”

Via cbsnews.com
4. Mandela on Castro and the Cuban revolution:

“From its earliest days, the Cuban Revolution has also been a source of
inspiration to all freedom-loving people. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of the vicious imperialist-orquestrated campaign to destroy the impressive gain made in the Cuban Revolution. … Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro.”

Via lanic.utexas.edu
3. Mandela on Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi, his longtime supporter:

“It is our duty to give support to the brother leader … especially in regards to the sanctions which are not hitting just him, they are hitting the ordinary masses of the people … our African brothers and sisters.”

Via finalcall.com
2. On the U.S. preparing to invade Iraq in a 2002 interview with Newsweek:

“If you look at those matters, you will come to the conclusion that the attitude of the United States of America is a threat to world peace.”

Via newsweek.com
1. On a Palestinian state:

“The UN took a strong stand against apartheid; and over the years, an international consensus was built, which helped to bring an end to this iniquitous system. But we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.”

Via cbsnews.com

7 Nelson Mandela Quotes You Probably Won't See In The U.S. Media

 

[FCPX]

With all due respect Sir,if you would check out,EE generally has a higher GDP per capita and a better Human Development Index and you must remember that EE came out of communism in 1990,everything was a **** up and fell apart while S. Africa was a developed country built by the whites in 1990.After power shifted , S. Africa fell apart .
A few months ago i saw police open volley fire on protesting miners,how can you say everything is fine apart crime ? Crime stats are appaling in S Africa and economy isn't doing better either.
What about Zimbabwe...now that country sank like a torpedoed merchant british vessel in WW2 after the white farmers were driven off.Can you deny that to ?
You're right,it was a conflicting thing in SA,national pride vs personal well being.They chose national pride in the end but you have to admit that if apartheid wouldn't have happened ,and SA would have been independent under black rule let's say,in 1950, it would have been another Congo.And that' a fact,no use in sugar coating the truth.

Sir in the spirit of not sugar coating the truth please dont forget the violence and social unrest in Romania last year at your leaders perceived incompetence in dealing with your economic crisis. The point is these things happen in many countries and SA is not alone to face it.

As for Zim, what the point of using that as an example to highlight SA's issues?

As for the the growth rate SA is averaging 3.2% in 2013. Nothing spectacular but still far better than Romanian growth rate of 0.9%?

What would have or not have happened in 1950 neither you know nor do I as it didnt happen no point in speculation.

I dont mean to imply that Romania is a terrible place to live or anything like that however the the point of my post is to highlight that people who support or supported systems like apartheid are IMHO truly misguided, morally and ethically wrong, and are racist.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Here was the original statement by Mandela:

Mandela Slams Bush On Iraq - CBS News

"If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don't care."

 

[MooshMoosh]

The mini America (Israel) and the big America is no difference when it comes to Apartheid. Not suprising here since the West never supported him from the start.

Most Israeli Jews agree Africans are cancer

Amnesty international refused to support Mandela

 

[PlanetWarrior]

The sad part of sub Saharan Africans are that they are a very forgiving people. Despite Israel's unwavering support for apartheid, South Africa continued and continues its business relationship with Israel. Jews practically control it economy. @FCPX , I'm certain that is still the scenario there? And yet we have an Israeli posting nonsense to the effect that South Africa was a safe and secure place during apartheid and that rape was a non existent crime there. Perhaps what that poster may not know is that if a White man raped a Black woman, the police and the courts did not regard that as a crime. Most Blacks did not report crimes to the police during apartheid since the police were regarded as oppressors.

As for the Romanian nutjob claiming that Whites were better leaders and hence should have been left in leadership, I must say that you view laughable. I likewise believe that the cowardly manner in which your country switched sides on and off during world war 2 makes you people inept at any form of self governance. Perhaps you would be better off ruled by some foreign nation as well ?

 

[500]

The sad part of sub Saharan Africans are that they are a very forgiving people. Despite Israel's unwavering support for apartheid, South Africa continued and continues its business relationship with Israel.

There was not any unwavering support of apartheid. There were economic ties. Until 1990-es Israel itself was isolated sanctioned country. Israel desperately needed economic ties with anyone who willed do do that. Nevertheless since 1987 Israel also imposed sanctions against South Africa.

And I repeat once again: blacks in apartheid SA lived way better than in any black country.

And yet we have an Israeli posting nonsense to the effect that South Africa was a safe and secure place during apartheid and that rape was a non existent crime there.

You are lying. I did not say that rape did not exist.

And I posted UN HDI index.

 

[flamer84]

As for the Romanian nutjob claiming that Whites were better leaders and hence should have been left in leadership, I must say that you view laughable. I likewise believe that the cowardly manner in which your country switched sides on and off during world war 2 makes you people inept at any form of self governance. Perhaps you would be better off ruled by some foreign nation as well ?

Lol,i knew the truth would upset some looser in the end.
Anyway about that switching sides (on and off ?-we switched sides in 1944 after 3 years of fighting in the Eastern Front),that's called a smart move(kudos for king Michael in taking that move or we would have lost more territories in the end) by a tiny nation trying to survive.You wouldn't know anything about it as you had no nation to take care of in 1944.Don't bother your silly little head with such notions.

Unlike black south africans,my country(such as it is) wasn't built by foreign settlers while we were running around naked in the bushes throwing spears at antilopes only to claim 100 years later as our own what others have built . )

 

[UKBengali]

The racists have come out into the open here.

So Blacks cannot run themselves? Botswana has been run by blacks since 1966 and has a GDP/capita at 10,000 US dollars.

South Africa has been run by blacks for nearly 20 years now and it has GDP/capita of 7,000 US dollars. The economy is predicted to grow by around 4% GDP/capita over the next 5 years. How is this running the economy into the ground!

blacks in apartheid SA lived way better than in any black country.

I introduce you to Botswana:

The World Factbook

 

[flamer84]

The racists have come out into the open here.

So Blacks cannot run themselves? Botswana has been run by blacks since 1966 and has a GDP/capita at 10,000 US dollars.

South Africa has been run by blacks for nearly 20 years now and it has GDP/capita of 7,000 US dollars. The economy is predicted to grow by around 4% GDP/capita over the next 5 years. How is this running the economy into the ground!



I introduce you to Botswana:

The World Factbook

Yes,the exception that comfirms the rule,Botswana.So,you give an example of a country with 2 million population,what about the rest ? Btw,in Botswana 40 % of the income comes from the mineral industry.

Would S. Africa be what it is today if the white minority wouldn't have ruled until 1990 ? NO .Did living standards ,HDI fell after the blacks took over ? YES.

What about Zimbabwe ? What happenned to the "bread basket of Africa" after the blacks chased the white farmers away ? Care to comment on that my friend ? All you do is scream racism,why can't you have a logical debate ?

 

[UKBengali]

Yes,the exception that comfirms the rule,Botswana.So,you give an example of a country with 2 million population,what about the rest ? Btw,in Botswana 40 % of the income comes from the mineral industry.

Would S. Africa be what it is today if the white minority wouldn't have ruled until 1990 ? NO .Did living standards ,HDI fell after the blacks took over ? YES.

What about Zimbabwe ? What happenned to the "bread basket of Africa" after the blacks chased the white farmers away ? Care to comment on that my friend ? All you do is scream racism,why can't you have a logical debate ?

Main reason that HDI has fallen in South Africa is because of the aids epidemic that has been sweeping through Sub-Saharan Africa. If South Africa was still run by whites the situation would have been the same.

South Africa does have it's problems but the fact is that the Blacks have kept what was a middle-income country still a middle income country. They have neither improved or worsened South Africa.

The rampant crime there is partly a legacy of the Apartheid-Era. So many blacks still have nothing and they resort to crime. It will take maybe another generation to overcome this.

Zimbabwe was ruined by that idiot Mugabe, simple as that. The fact that he is black is irrelevant. I personally know a black Zimbabwean who thinks that Mugabe was wrong to do what he did to the white farmers. His opinion is that the land should not have been taken from the white farmers and if Mugabe had to do it, then it should have been done in a peaceful manner with due compensation paid.

 

[flamer84]

Main reason that HDI has fallen in South Africa is because of the aids epidemic that has been sweeping through Sub-Saharan Africa. If South Africa was still run by whites the situation would not have been the same.

South Africa does have it's problems but the fact is that the Blacks have kept what was a middle-income country still a middle income country. They have neither improved or worsened South Africa.

The rampant crime there is partly a legacy of the Apartheid-Era. So many blacks still have nothing and they resort to crime. It will take maybe another generation to overcome this.

Zimbabwe was ruined by that idiot Mugabe, simple as that. The fact that he is black is irrelevant. I personally know a black Zimbabwean who thinks that Mugabe was wrong to do what he did to the white farmers. His opinion is that the land should not have been taken from the white farmers and if Mugabe had to do it, then it should have been done in a peaceful manner with due compensation paid.

No,you're wrong,the land should have been taken away from the whites,because as i've said on my previous posts apartheid was wrong and so was the fact that in Zimbabwe a small white minority had all the land.The wrong thing was that the whites were thrown out of the country,almost all of them.They should have been kept as administrators for those lands,not as owners.Do you know that many of them were welcomed with open arms in Cameroon and Nigeria and given free land to practice agriculture ?

Anyway,that's what i was saying for S. Africa to,maybe it would have been a good ideea to let the administrative part to the whites while,at the same time ending apartheid.But noooo..."racist,racist"...oh boy,it never gets old.

 

[UKBengali]

Anyway,that's what i was saying for S. Africa to,maybe it would have been a good ideea to let the administrative part to the whites while,at the same time ending apartheid.But noooo..."racist,racist"...oh boy,it never gets old.

You still have not provided any evidence that whites managed South Africa any better than the blacks have done.

South Africa under Apartheid consisted of rich whites and poor blacks. It is now slightly less rich whites, a sizeable population of middle-income blacks and a minority of still poor blacks. The difference is that the poor blacks are no longer second-class citizens in their own country.

Apart from the rampant crime, partly due to the legacy of apartheid, South Africa is a much better place for the overwhelming majority of it's population now.

 

[flamer84]

You still have not provided any evidence that whites managed South Africa any better than the blacks have done.

South Africa under Apartheid consisted of rich whites and poor blacks. It is now slightly less rich whites, a sizeable population of middle-income blacks and a minority of still poor blacks. The difference is that the poor blacks are no longer second-class citizens in their own country.

Apart from the rampant crime, partly due to the legacy of apartheid, South Africa is a much better place for the overwhelming majority of it's population now.

If HD dropping and rampant crime statistics going up aren't proofs for you ,i really don't see how we can debate this anymore-you're telling me to give you proofs beside the actual clear proofs..You can blame these things on whatever you want,as is often the case in such scenarios(it's always the fault of the whites who did something in the past) but it doesn't change anything.

I have official statistics as my proofs ,you have excuses.I'm done.

Oh,btw ,they can't fly their Gripens because the goverment insisted on racial quotas for fighter pilots...ergo...planes remain grounded.Make of this what you want.