UN Security Council to Vote Monday Morning on Iran Deal

[Minute by Minute]

It seems, that for the next 15 years the western World can blackmail our country into destruction. We forget, that the truth is what ever THEY say. It has always been like this and with an army of newspapers, radios and televisions they can decide, what ever they want. And if they somehow suddenly are touched by angels and regain their humanity! and stop their ongoing policies and decades long warplans, the threat form within will be increased astronomically and destroy our social, political and ECONOMICAL STRUCTURE.
What in reality will happen is so simple, that even the braindead already have figured it out: soon the gates to the country will open and everything will be for sale! A few handfull of traitors will get super rich while destroying our resistance economy hand in hand with with our western enemies. Our local industries will be destoryed by imports, our natural resources will be auctioned by corrupt functionaries in different ministaries with the power to print out licenses and so on!
The truth of the matter is, that the only thing, that can save us is TO CREATE AN ECONOMIC INTELLIGENCE AGENCY BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. If our country is to survive we have to man such an Agency with the brightest and most uncorruptable people to make sure, that our economy is not used like a casino by the West and our internal enemies. Such an Agency must be the most powerfull agancy in our country. We have two battlefields in our country: one is western propaganda directly beamed into our livingrooms and the other is our economy and we are loosing both! We hear how aware our leaders are about both, but we don't know the depth of the threat! I keep telling people the same thing over and over: On one hand you have Akbar, Mansur, Layla and Sara and on the other hand you have the entire western wrould with the entire global mass media at their service not to mention the brighttest minds in the fields of history, sociology, anthropolgy, philosophy, psychology, biology and economy and cultural ... in the service of the western Worlds intelligence agencies with their Money printing machines! It is hubris to think it is our average "Joe", that is going to win the battle! Out enemies have all the time, all the cards own the casino too, and all we have is our “faith” in our people to somehow see through the fog, that has destroyed nation after nation before us. If we are to surviv, we have a big cleaning up at our hands and our ranks!
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42444.htm

 

[Siavash]

The truth of the matter is, that the only thing, that can save us is TO CREATE AN ECONOMIC INTELLIGENCE AGENCY BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.

The solution is not Khamenei style centrist approach separated from realities on the ground and defying economical rules. World does not blackmail anyone but the world work based on their benefit and we should seek our own benefit. There is enemies but we ought not to be paranoid about it. The solution is integrating into global financial system and have rules to protect national security and vital resources like every country does. Like when Suncor is being bought the Canadian government rules if it is possible to sell it to Chinese entity ...based on all factors important for Canada but other than that it doesn't matter what is bought by whom as long as the overall benefit to the economy stays at certain level.

An agency equivalent to what you said is called Intelligence Service agencies which behind the scenes anyway monitor activities and for sure Iran does not need any more of such mentalities and agencies as every power inside Iran is now having its own, IRGC, Guardian Council .., SAVAMA ...

The rules of economy govern over nations and they are despite being complicated very decisive on letting you prosper or not.

Mentalities that try to artificially protect is based on admitting weaknesses in system but not abiding to the necessary solution. Protectionism is not a cure but a sign of an existing weakness and a fear of integration. The Iranian economy needs surgical corrections in order to be strong meanwhile protection is needed for areas which are essential which is accepted by international norms.

 

[mohsen]

Seems arguing with you is futile. I said the power of enrichment per centrifuge by SWU. SWU (separative work unit) It is obvious what I mean in my text. Try finding other excuses arguing something so straight forward. Even by the way you describe it you should understand what I told you if you now try to have same output you can reduce the length 16 times more if the load of each centrifuge was similar but its not so it becomes less than the number you get dividing nominal SWU of two machines. Separation work unit SWU is the amount of work each centrifuge does by itself which is exactly what I defined in my post and it is common knowledge.

Anyway I suggest you go and read 2008aglaser_sgsvol16.pdf from princeton university on the cascade analysis of Iranian P1 and then go to Urenco application note on "GC" cascade number and stages optimum calculation if you have access (hint table Table A.2.1) number of cascade units per row for Urenco type system.

Also the princeton paper shows how the IR-1 works and its number of stages (5 stage 24 each) peak output at mid stage...

Those whom understand have got it already. Salehi and his MIT buddy certainly got it better than you and me. They wanted a minimal usable Cascade number that will do the job and separate successfully till 3.67% in one cascade and they reached it. Now lets say by way you describe: They didn't want 16 time more so keyword is minimal number of cascade length that gives the same enrichment or separation capacity.

The 16 times more production is defined as throughput of plant and achieved by making parallel cascade number of optimal number of cascades they have calculated for a particular flow and enrichment percentage. So 30 machines IR-8 same flow reaches same enrichment % of 164 cascaded IR-1 now N number of them in parallel reaches N times more capacity or throughput whatever you like to call. 164 is the magic number for IR-1 centrifuge not IR-8. End of discussion. I rest my case here. You can either accept it or leave it.

Your logic can't explain 164-machine IR-1 cascade, 164-machine IR-2m cascade, 164-machine IR-4 cascade and 164-machine IR-6 cascade. is it really that much hard to understand?
why 164 doesn't change? there is only one explanation. cause enrichment level is the same in all of the centrifuges and extra separation units within higher generation centrifuges are installed in parallel.

also decreasing the number of machines in the cascade isn't optimal. let's assume we have16 centrifuges at the bottom of the cascade, if one of them fails, the flow will continue through the next 15 machines (with reduced product of course), but if we follow what you imagined we will put just one centrifuge at the bottom of the cascade and when it fails the whole production will stop. is it really optimal?
though you can install (for example 30) centrifuges in one branch of the cascade to reach the 3.67% in one exit, yet it's just another phase in tests and wont let you to skip a full cascade test.

 

[Siavash]

Your logic can't explain 164-machine IR-1 cascade, 164-machine IR-2m cascade, 164-machine IR-4 cascade and 164-machine IR-6 cascade. is it really that much hard to understand?
why 164 doesn't change? there is only one explanation. cause enrichment level is the same in all of the centrifuges and extra separation units within higher generation centrifuges are installed in parallel.

also decreasing the number of machines in the cascade isn't optimal. let's assume we have 16 centrifuges at the bottom of the cascade, if one of them fails, the flow will continue through the next 15 machines (with reduced product of course), but if we follow what you imagined we will put just one centrifuge at the bottom of the cascade and when it fails the whole production will stop. is it really optimal?
though you can install (for example 30) centrifuges in one branch of the cascade to reach the 3.67% in one exit, yet it's just another phase in tests and wont let you to skip a full cascade test.

Separation is not the same per IR-8 and IR-1 as you know so bt in any particular cascade based on either of centrifuges the separation is the same as long as it follows same throughput in all.I think we are saying the same thing but different way that is why you almost said the same by having 16 through put. This may clarify both views. It is the stages that are important. If 5 stages are designed for both IR-8 and IR-1 (not necessary best idea) then if each stage is same separation % then if IR-1 needs 16 Centrifuges per that stage, IR-8 needs only 1. I think this clears both views.
Here is the picture of what I mean, my experience says such mediums are not good for discussion :
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the picture drawn above shows the stages and in each stage you have centrifuges. Stages build the profile. IR-8 is 11 times higher to IR-1 so per stage you have lower need of centrifuge. 164 cascade uses 5 stage of 24 (doesn't add up to 164 but I don't know that is what I read may be some are standby in real production). IR-8 would only need 5 stage of 3 at most for minimal design. Stages are like quantizing the profile the more stages you have the better control on enrichment. Companies use 100 of stages and each stage number is different depending on flow and profile they like to reach. They call the whole thing a cascade so cascade is all the 5 stages. Then they have multiple Cascades in parallel again.

if I have 30 IR-8's I would have gone to 8 stage of 5,5,4,4,3,3,2,2 centrifuge per stage to reach my profile for example. I hope this clarifies the point of view if not we leave it there there is no point. I believe Salehi and Murano where intelligent enough

We are in centrifuge R & D phase not production phase and it takes minimum 5 to 6 years for that and 30 is sufficient for that purpose. You don't skip it but you do it later. The production phase is shorter and the plant stages which is important is based on the production capacity which is not yet planned and is not known so any more than 30 is redundant for now. I think that was their mentality and it is a progressive view. I agree with it. It is a compromise that works both ways. Remember it is a win win situation not all win. Only Esfahanis from my experience like win-loose deals

By the way I was not trying to explain why 164.i was saying why 30 is sufficient. By the way 164 is for Ir-1 and 2 I haven't heard for Ir-6 anyway this number is not magical.

 

[Minute by Minute]

You do know, Siavash, that you sound like a five year old trying big words! Where did you learn all that garbage?
What rules? You don't even know the golden rule?! Those who have the gold, make the rules! Not to mention the military power to subjugate and if not to destory! If you want to learn something and not sound like a monkey trying to vomit a few oneliners read "war is a racket" by the most decorate general in usa history Smidley Butler. He will tell you, what it is all about! And how he destroyed latin America for BANANAS! That is why they call them bananarepublics!
Funny how the poor get poorer and the rich get richer in the age of "global village", the age of instant communication, globlisation, economical liberalism and all that jazz, and funny the same vampires in new skins sold the same miracle cures, when the Telegraph was invented!
In front of your nose there is the rest of the third World being destroyed by the likes of you in latin America, Africa and Asia!
I remember one of your forfathers telling us to become western from top til toe!
Maybe the saying is true, it seems there really is nothing new under the sun afterall!
Take a look at Monsanto, Vandana Shiva and a few books about globalization by the likes of Greg Palast or the book "Globlization of Poverty" and so on!

 

[Siavash]

You do know, Siavash, that you sound like a five year old trying big words! Where did you learn all that garbage?
What rules? You don't even know the golden rule?! Those who have the gold, make the rules! Not to mention the military power to subjugate and if not to destory! If you want to learn something and not sound like a monkey trying to vomit a few oneliners read "war is a racket" by the most decorate general in usa history Smidley Butler. He will tell you, what it is all about! And how he destroyed latin America for BANANAS! That is why they call them bananarepublics!
Funny how the poor get poorer and the rich get richer in the age of "global village", the age of instant communication, globlisation, economical liberalism and all that jazz, and funny the same vampires in new skins sold the same miracle cures, when the Telegraph was invented!
In front of your nose there is the rest of the third World being destroyed by the likes of you in latin America, Africa and Asia!
I remember one of your forfathers telling us to become western from top til toe!
Maybe the saying is true, it seems there really is nothing new under the sun afterall!
Take a look at Monsanto, Vananda Shiva and a few books about globlization by the likes of Greg Palast or the book "Globlization of Poverty" and so on!

.

I think you posted wrong place. Not related to topic.keep calm and post right! don't be excited to post like a 5 year old!

But if you like to have your take here that is ok here you are:
I guess you have learned the way you argue for an older than five year old?! . Won't waste my time arguing one that I don't see and certainly not care. it is certain economical systems that makes poor poorer and rich richer. Certainly incompetent revolutionary wanna be types who are stuck in 60's are not the ones changing that. In anyway the economical rules around what makes poor poorer and rich richer govern the world. you play by the rules and protect your people and communities by social nets and rules. There is no other way. Certainly the way is not using fascist mentality embedded in centrist type mindset

 

[Minute by Minute]

I give you one thing, it is an art to say alot without saying anything worth knowig, or know anything for that matter. I woud love for you to go and read a book, learn something and then come back and make a comment worth reading. But then Again you showed us your true face. It must Count for something!
Believe me it makes me sad, in a way, to see the level of ignorance amongst our enemies. But hey if cartoons are your thing, be all that you can be!

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

and stop their ongoing policies and decades long warplans, the threat form within will be increased astronomically and destroy our social, political and ECONOMICAL STRUCTURE.
What in reality will happen is so simple, that even the braindead already have figured it out: soon the gates to the country will open and everything will be for sale! A few handfull of traitors will get super rich while destroying our resistance economy hand in hand with with our western enemies. Our local industries will be destoryed by imports, our natural resources will be auctioned by corrupt functionaries in different ministaries with the power to print out licenses and so on!

And all we have is our “faith” in our people to somehow see through the fog, that has destroyed nation after nation before us. If we are to surviv, we have a big cleaning up at our hands and our ranks!

Faith is not enough, some loose their faith, but could never loose their nationality. Only Iranian nationalism, (which is shunned by some..., but could extend our influence beyond our borders), and laws in Constitution about use of mass-media and prevention of losing strategic companies and industries to foreigners, could save Iran. No need of being afraid, no need for communist policies, a pencil and paper could change everything, but therefore you must believe in Iran.

For other branches, competition will bring discipline. Lazy fat managers, protected by an isolated market and state now have to compete now. Customers should be respected, not yelled at (get out of my shop/hotel if you don't like it).

 

[Minute by Minute]

There is a rule in communicaiton that says: it is not about what you say, but what people hear!

 

[Siavash]

I give you one thing, it is an art to say alot without saying anything worth knowig, or know anything for that matter. I woud love for you to go and read a book, learn something and then come back and make a comment worth reading. But then Again you showed us your true face. It must Count for something!
Believe me it makes me sad, in a way, to see the level of ignorance amongst our enemies. But hey if cartoons are your thing, be all that you can be!

Well in your state of paranoia everyone is enemy! In two post you made you didn't say anything worthwhile except the stereotype of a well known cancerous lunatic which is "Enemy, Enemy My Enemy. I exist only if Enemy exist!" now you say who says a lot while not saying anything Isn't that amazing all Fascists have same mentality. Doesn't matter if they have Islam as their cover or not. Anyway, I do my reading as I please. How about in your posts you just mention your opinion without judging people. I know for your type it is difficult to not be the mainstream attention and your type would like to first dominate by all means and then preach but may be you like to change and start by just expressing your opinion and avoid starting your argument by eliminating and belittling your opponent. That is a good start for you.
So:
Express your opinion and you are respected. Try to belittle your opponent and I am a worthy adversary to twist you, as I please and enjoy doing that! Ok?

Well in your state of paranoia everyone is enemy! In two post you made you didn't say anything worthwhile except the stereotype of a well known cancerous lunatic which is "Enemy, Enemy My Enemy. I exist only if Enemy exist!" now you say who says a lot while not saying anything Isn't that amazing all Fascists have same mentality. Doesn't matter if they have Islam as their cover or not. Anyway, I do my reading as I please. How about in your posts you just mention your opinion without judging people. I know for your type it is difficult to not be the mainstream attention and your type would like to first dominate by all means and then preach but may be you like to change and start by just expressing your opinion and avoid starting your argument by eliminating and belittling your opponent. That is a good start for you.
So:
Express your opinion and you are respected. Try to belittle your opponent and I am a worthy adversary to twist you, as I please and enjoy doing that! Ok?

Just to summarize what said: Our fellow Iranian said: Or economy would be under attack in future and we need to protect it by making agencies monitoring and acting against such dominance by outer world! (core of his writing)

I say: That type of mentality is wrong and the result of 35 years of Paranoia by Pseudo Islamist revolutionaries that turned into Fascists after the war and wish to dominate the economy. I said Iran doesn't need any extra covert agencies but the rule of law and clear and transparent legalities. I said this type of mentality is exactly what I am against and will like to protect Iran by all means.

You jump in and say: People are talking like 5 year olds. World is about power and dominating others and we need to prepared .... You say one better read more books and amazed by your enemy ignorance

I think: Enemy the way you see is paranoia and sign of illness and weakness. I say being strong should be sustainable and by proper tools and civilized methods. I think your type protect themselves by hiding in a shell. Their protection zone is small and weak in reality but they see it big. They are afraid of playing in the world because they don't understand it or because their benefit is not doing so.

End of discussion. I will discuss with you if you act civilized otherwise I will play with you like a Dung beetle.

 

[Minute by Minute]

From time to time I mention some tactics used by Hasbara to do, what they do best! Now here you are using one of the more childish and puny ones, which is telling people what they think! Not I nor anybody else needs you to tell us what we think! If you have any weight and intellectual capacity you would be more worried about your own lack of knowledge. Obviously in your ignorance, you think, that you know something, who says tv can’t be educational, the problem is, that you just repeat mainstream garbagde without even knowing what it is you are saying. The other thing that hasbara like you use too often is playing the role of the indignent and demanding civilized discourse. And then there is the usual relativism, I know you don’t have a clude, it is called relatiism after all your posts are nothing but regurgutations of falicies and assumptions, that obviously know nothing about. Ofcourse like any other ignorant person, you think you are a genious, believe me the more ignorant people like you are, the harder it is to convince them otherwise. Me, a lot of people have tried and failed one of them even had 2 Phd as arrogant as he was he actually told me ten minutes before running away, that he was so knowledgeable, that he even didn’t know how to talk to someone like me. Personally my urin has contains enough knowledge to have a few Phd!
All I hear you say is hasbara stuff like Fascists, dominate, Paranoia, illness and weakness, hiding in a shell, small and weak followed by Pseudo Islamist revolutionaries, rule of law and civilized. I may be wrong but you need an other hasbara class, your stuff is outdated. Who knows it seems you and your spiritual leader Netanyahu have gone to the same hasbara classes!
But the funny part, it must be the joke of the day, is that you actually think word events are illusions! So go to sleep there is no report from iron mountain, there is not PNAC, there is no full spectrum domination, libya did not happen, nor did Iraq, Vietnam, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Congo, Iran, Thailand, Philipines and, Venezuela and the rest. There are no plans, there is no 7 countries in 5 years. You are free, you good we bad, sweet dreams, just remember to let the dog in! You may need company! And when you wake up take your pills otherwise reality will follow!
Read a book learn something before life has been wasted on you. I have already given you a few titles you can begin with.

I was taking a dump and suddenly had an epiphany!
Now I see the wrong I have done, me wiched thirdworld man. I have seen the light and it told me, that the west knows best and wants to free me and help me, really, really!
Please forgive me! I would so much like to be like you!
Really!

 

[Siavash]

From time to time I mention some tactics used by Hasbara to do, what they do best! Now here you are using one of the more childish and puny ones, which is telling people what they think! Not I nor anybody else needs you to tell us what we think! If you have any weight and intellectual capacity you would be more worried about your own lack of knowledge. Obviously in your ignorance, you think, that you know something, who says tv can’t be educational, the problem is, that you just repeat mainstream garbagde without even knowing what it is you are saying. The other thing that hasbara like you use too often is playing the role of the indignent and demanding civilized discourse. And then there is the usual relativism, I know you don’t have a clude, it is called relatiism after all your posts are nothing but regurgutations of falicies and assumptions, that obviously know nothing about. Ofcourse like any other ignorant person, you think you are a genious, believe me the more ignorant people like you are, the harder it is to convince them otherwise. Me, a lot of people have tried and failed one of them even had 2 Phd as arrogant as he was he actually told me ten minutes before running away, that he was so knowledgeable, that he even didn’t know how to talk to someone like me. Personally my urin has contains enough knowledge to have a few Phd!
All I hear you say is hasbara stuff like Fascists, dominate, Paranoia, illness and weakness, hiding in a shell, small and weak followed by Pseudo Islamist revolutionaries, rule of law and civilized. I may be wrong but you need an other hasbara class, your stuff is outdated. Who knows it seems you and your spiritual leader Netanyahu have gone to the same hasbara classes!
But the funny part, it must be the joke of the day, is that you actually think word events are illusions! So go to sleep there is no report from iron mountain, there is not PNAC, there is no full spectrum domination, libya did not happen, nor did Iraq, Vietnam, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia, Congo, Iran, Thailand, Philipines and, Venezuela and the rest. There are no plans, there is no 7 countries in 5 years. You are free, you good we bad, sweet dreams, just remember to let the dog in! You may need company! And when you wake up take your pills otherwise reality will follow!
Read a book learn something before life has been wasted on you. I have already given you a few titles you can begin with.

I was taking a dump and suddenly had an epiphany!
Now I see the wrong I have done, me wiched thirdworld man. I have seen the light and it told me, that the west knows best and wants to free me and help me, really, really!
Please forgive me! I would so much like to be like you!
Really!

You are paranoid Only read the first few lines including the Hasbara shite ! Nothing constructive, same as usual. Hasbara definition are jews following Israel propaganda machine! You don't know what yo are talking about Hasbara doesn't apply to Iranian, non jew and no affiliation to it. Same method your corrupt master uses in Iran. Calling everyone that they don't agree a foreign agent! Get a life. What you do defines you and definitely what you did here was to run anxiously from another thread and attack without a basis because you had a defined agenda! Facist mentality are alike. Take your pills minute by minute every minute as you need it

 

[mohsen]

Why Kerry didn't say anything about our missiles in public? i guess we we will find out after we destroyed our Uranium, centrifuges and Arak core. Or maybe when Romani started to recruit for war.

برداشت متفاوت تهران و واشنگتن از بند جنجالی قطعنامه کری در مورد موشک‌های ایران چه گفت؟

 

[Osmanovic]

Whatever your politics is everyone should atleast be happy for the iranian people. They have been suffering from the sanctions and have made many sacrifices. It amazes me that there was not much social unrest in Iran, that goes to show how sold Iran is as a nation. A long proud history that spanned thousands of years has inspired the Iranian people to put up with the sanctions as long as they did. Inshallah all of the regional countries will benefit from this deal and begin trading with Iran.

 

[Madali]

Thanks to both Syavash & mohsen for their debate. I don't agree with the deal, but I enjoyed reading the technical viewpoints of both sides based on logic.